GuitarAtomik
Member
No, but Weeklies do. I agree though. They should have the option for Nightfalls (and add the option to NOT matchmake during the Weeklies).
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Destiny House of Wolves will Have no New Raid
- Thread starter mcrommert
- Start date
No, but Weeklies do. I agree though. They should have the option for Nightfalls (and add the option to NOT matchmake during the Weeklies).
I never understood the no matchmaking for Nightfalls. Aren't they just normal missions with modifiers?
At least with the Raid there's the whole "you need to communicate" that justifies it but Nightfalls are different.
But MM on weeklies is good. I'll fire it up again.
KingJ2002
Member
Their reasoning for not having matchmaking in nightfalls is justified because it kicks you back to orbit instead of allowing another attempt. Imagine spawning with a new squad every time you attempt it but you all keep dying at the beginning of the mission. It can get annoying really fast.
I guess one way to remedy this would be to force the players into a fireteam... that way the can decide if they want to attempt it again or part ways.
GlamFM
Banned
You get booted back to orbit when you wipe in NF.
Randoms could screw with you real bad.
i plays game lol
Banned
Yeah the lack of matchmaking on nightfalls is amusing. They're not that hard and don't require communication. I'd love to know why bungie felt matchmaking wouldn't work.
Willing to bet PoE is just like this.
GlamFM
Banned
See post above yours.
i plays game lol
Banned
Not sold on this way of thinking.
So i get a crap group and we all die. I click the nightfall again and try my luck with a new group. I see no issues with at least giving us the CHOICE to use matchmaking.
Again, Nightfalls aren't that hard anyway. Sometimes just having a body there to revive you over a dumb mistake is all it takes. I'd love the option, personally.
squidhands
Member
It would be worth trying out, though. Beyond quitters, the Weekly works just fine with matchmade randoms who know what they're doing.
GuitarAtomik
Member
There's room for abuse and frustration, but I'd like the option since it's no worse than having to try it solo (especially after they made soloing harder). People said the same thing about Weeklies (and still act like they were justified) but the reality is that I was getting them done a lot easier once matchmaking was implemented.
You say that like being kicked to orbit is a law of nature. They could change it so you're just put back at the beginning of the mission
Anton Sugar
Member
Oh god, the amount of time wasted in orbit. Going to orbit, loading the next orbit screen, loading the NEXT next orbit screen. Hopefully that's on the list of "stupid horrible design decisions we made" for Destiny 2.
This is how I feel about it as well. I get really tired of having to find a group for nightfalls, especially now that my time on Destiny isn't consistent and many of my friends don't play. Having matchmaking for weeklies has been mostly great and I really don't see nightfalls being much different. We all know the strikes and cheese spots, there are communication options finally, and if it doesn't work with one group, I'll just pop back into matchmaking for a better one. I would be much more likely to do these weekly (x3) if this were an option.
Thats it?
Just 10 pages?
Are we over it now?
What the heck is the story behind this horrible GIF?!
Bomber Bob
Banned
people still play destiny? lol
Thank you Bungie, thank you.
BTW that slide was officially denied by Bungie. Plans change in the development of any game. Just because Bungie might have revealed their current plans to some insiders and those plans may have changed and those plans leaked and Bungie denied them doesn't mean Bungie owes you anything...
https://twitter.com/UrkMcGurk/status/554801277981298688/photo/1
Your post got me thinking about the story behind this mode... and that there might actually be one, given the name of it.
I always wanted a mode where you simply revisited random locations from story/strike/raid missions, and you encountered randomly selected mobs. Teleport in, fight, teleport out kind of stuff. So that they could put some of the best locations to further use, and even put some to use which maybe never had battle encounters before.
But that wouldn't really have a "story" to it... at least not in the grand sense that your are suggesting the Prison might have. Obviously there will be an NPC at the Tower to introduce you to the Prison and grant Prison rewards... while I'm hoping it would still have LOTS of Rare/Exotic loot drops...
DeviantBoi
Member
Yes, but it proves that at some point in their development, they had planned a raid for House of Wolves.
Things change, of course, but what changed?
Did they not see that from launch day people were praising the raid? Did they not hear that the raid was the best part of The Dark Below?
I think even the data mining not too long ago showed that there was a raid being included in House of Wolves.
Sounds like the change from raid to arena was a last-minute thing (as in the last month or two). I'd like to know why it was scrapped.
That's such a silly question.
SenatorBot
Member
Considering how only a small percentage of players have raided before, maybe they dumbly decided that they should focus on what makes the majority happy rather than more raids that only the hardcore care about.
Icyflamez96
Member
I remember when they teased multiple voiced pre release.
Or maybe i'm thinking of something else
As great as the raids are, the majority of Destiny's player base doesn't even play them because they either don't have 5 other people or they aren't at the level cap / have good enough gear. I think the Arena mode is an attempt to satisfy the casual & hardcore fans. If it ends up being a variation of horde mode with 3 players, it's an easier barrier of entry for most people. Easier to get in, harder to master and finish.
Good luck figuring out any of that... Bungie isn't talking... at least not any time soon IMO... Data-mining showed a 6 person activity called "the area" a long time ago yes. Even hidden files on the disk that you could only see by hacking called it a "raid".
But Bungie never officially promised a Raid with HoW and they went out of their way to discourage people from believing rumors and data mined information and they were always calling it "placeholder".
So we know that the "arena" is a name that was planned for a long time. So whatever they were doing it kept the same name through development. People were speculating it was a boss rush mode or a horde mode many months ago even when the first leaks were learned.
I have posted much earlier in this topic and in the official destiny topic my own speculations about it. Unfortunately I don't have time right now to dig up my old post or re-type my thoughts.
Glendemonium
Member
Not sure what my current raid static thinks about it, haven't talked to them in a week. We were under the impression HoW will have a full 6 man raid, our static consists of at least 5 and an extra if they are online.
This 3 man even will probably split us up, which is something none of us would of expected. We don't do weekly and nightfalls anymore since we have what we needed.
I'm starting to distance myself from this game though, unless I'm needed to play the new event I might just call it quits, but I'll see how this plays out for a bit. Hopefully they're not going to make our Crota's End gear be outdone by readily available Vanguard gear like last time... but then again, maybe I'm fortunate to have a strong raid group.
This 3 man even will probably split us up, which is something none of us would of expected. We don't do weekly and nightfalls anymore since we have what we needed.
I'm starting to distance myself from this game though, unless I'm needed to play the new event I might just call it quits, but I'll see how this plays out for a bit. Hopefully they're not going to make our Crota's End gear be outdone by readily available Vanguard gear like last time... but then again, maybe I'm fortunate to have a strong raid group.
Or, I dunno, maybe developers should be allowed to change their mind on development plans. This is why developers tend to be opaque and quiet because game development isn't something where people draft a plan 5 years ago and stick to every bullet point forever and ever.
Seriously, I've seen the public react like there was inner civil war and turmoil over a plan change over another video game, where internally it was "ah, let's move this content up and that content gets pushed back so we can make this content better since the later one got done faster. what's for lunch?"
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
I seriously can't wait for more details on the Prison of Elders. I really hope they make it hard, with survival being the ultimate objective.
Yeah I'm pretty excited to see more. It's the one thing I'm cautiously optimistic about with the DLC.
This is incorrect, majority of the destiny player base doesn't even play the game anymore or they never finish it and most games are like this where people rarely even finish the game. If we are talking about active player base then I have a hard time believing that most of those don't play raid...anyone who plays destiny regularly has friends who play the game.
And I don't want to play a horde mode, I hate playing horde mode because all you do is sit in one area and kill waves after waves of enemies. The only variation of it that I've ever liked is Zombie mode. Thing is there is no sense of progression in horde mode, raid feels like you embark on an adventure regardless of how many times you play it...there's an end purpose to all of it. Horde is just plain boring to me.
But the main question is, why is Arena considered to be a replacement ? Why can't it be supplementary to the raid. I know why Bungie isn't releasing a raid because they haven't finished it most probably and why they haven't finished it is a different discussion, but this question is towards the people who are saying things like what you just said that "maybe they wanted to make things easier".
SmoothRunningGun
Member
I would guess that the majority of active players have raided. Trophy data is for everyone who has ever played the game maybe including demo players. Still I hold out hope that PoE will be good and is replayable as they say.
Or maybe just improve matchmaking
Maybe the raid sucked compared to the other 2.
It's not like they have an awesome raid sitting there and just chose to axe it for no good reason, lol.
No, I'm not incorrect. There are a lot of people who still play Destiny who just play PVP and don't raid. There are alot of people who still play Destiny who do everything else but raids. You'd be surprised.
I said they're looking to make the barrier of entry easier, not the content. What that means is that more people can get into it, but it's going to more difficult to master/complete. Go on the Destiny subreddit and there's people everyday saying how they just did a raid for the first time just the other day after months of never being able to. When you're in the hardcore gaming forum bubble, it's easy to believe that raids are everything because everyone here is doing them, but it isn't that way for thousands of people out there. There are tons of Destiny players who don't do raids at all.
On top of that, you should wait until they actually reveal the mode in a few weeks before being dismissive. If it ends up being a generic horde mode, then people have the right to complain.
I say this having defended Destiny from all number of unfair slights and complaints, and having played it for probably hundreds of hours -- Has Bungie done ANYTHING to earn them the benefit of the doubt? Even in the House of Wolves thread there was someone saying, "Don't be silly guys of course the expansion is going to include a raid!" Then like 3 hours later they announced that there was no raid. Vanilla Destiny was content-starved...."Oh but they'll turn it around with Crota's End!". Crota's End was content-starved...."Oh but they delayed House of Wolves so surely it will be packed full of stuff!" Then the raid got cancelled.
You're far better off assuming the worst than expecting these expansions to be loaded down with interesting new content.
I'd rather have a horde mode, or a boss rush mode, than a half baked no so fun Raid.
I was the guy who was telling people in the OT that the Bungie promo materials didn't say anything about a Raid. I've raided VoG and CE hundreds of times. It's a lot of fun. I've gotten my money's worth and a lot more from my Destiny Digital Guardian edition. But maybe it's a good idea to step back and play a little less Destiny and wait and see what's coming next.
I was the guy who was telling people in the OT that the Bungie promo materials didn't say anything about a Raid. I've raided VoG and CE hundreds of times. It's a lot of fun. I've gotten my money's worth and a lot more from my Destiny Digital Guardian edition. But maybe it's a good idea to step back and play a little less Destiny and wait and see what's coming next.
For all the bungie apologizers, its fine if you like the game; I thought it was fun as well. The simple fact of the matter was that they sold us the most epic game of the century on par with Start Wars and LOTR lore-wise, and the had a story line that read like a grade school book. In no way whatsoever was the story any sort of epic, it was laughable. In no way was there any merging of a FPS/RPG. Nowhere did your character become individual or unique or your gear have a story behind it.
Have you been living under a rock since September?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I'm pretty sure EVERYONE got the impression that each 'Expansion pack' in the season pass would have a Raid. Bungie certainly didn't deny or assuage that. Even their 'Work in Progress' data had the HoW stuff listed as a raid.
So, we can ascertain that at some point in time, possibly during the launch period, they were planning on having a raid for HoW. There is too much evidence that points to that. Something must've happened from launch to the release of TDB, whether feedback or issues with the raid and bugs, or whatever.
IMO, it was the general feedback that made them cutback on the raid. There's definitely a negative sentiment towards Bungie and towards the Crotas End raid in terms of design compared to VoG, and maybe the new raid wasn't looking so hot. So they downsized it and made it a matchmade activity.
After all Destiny isn't like WoW-if you only have 10-20% of the playerbase doing raids, then the expansion packs are going to lose a huge amount of value to the regular joe who doesn't or can't raid. Maybe this is a test for them to see how many people do the Arena-if that turns out more popular, and if alot of people actually manage to complete it/do well/actually participate, then we might see even fewer raids and/or matchmade raids.
Because when that one random thinks he can run out in the open and then complains about not getting revived and rage quits, you're now down a man
Or when that random doesn't even know what weapons to use on what shield
Or when that random runs out to revive you when he could have just killed that one enemy from safety to clear the zone causing the whole team to wipe because that other guy has been afk since the beginning of the match
I can keep going if you like
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Randoms don't get to level 28/29 without grinding hundreds of marks to get the gear necessary for doing the Nightfall. If we assume Bungie locked the matchmaking queue behind being level 28....then you wouldn't have the problems that you listed. Come on, you're acting like people who grind to level 28 are complete morons when it comes to doing a Nightfall. That's a bad argument.
Yes they did actually go out and deny it. They never promised a Raid and they called out all the leaked info as fake or placeholder every single time.
You don't sound like you play many MM ROC strikes.
NF with MM would be terrible.
How many people actually read that and believed it at the time it was published? And how many just found the quote after they had already played and been disappointed by the game?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I'm talking about when the game launched. Everyone just assumed it would have a raid, especially after it was announced TDB would have one. It was a given at that point. Bungie never came out during the launch period of either the Vanilla game or TDB and said 'Guys don't expect a raid for each one.'
It really wouldn't be. Yes, I've played hundreds of ROC strikes Deku, I've complained of getting the same strikes over and over again in the Destiny thread. You can solo Nightfalls FFS, having matchmaking to make it easier really isn't a negative. Oh, someone else died, you don't have to pick them up immediately.
NF with MM wouldn't be terrible. Don't pretend it would be. It's the same damn strike with some modifiers, and the strikes are already braindead easy.
Nightfalls can be solo'ed, but I sure as hell can't solo them and I certainly wouldn't want to. It can be incredibly easy to get one-shotted so even a moment's negligence can cost you 20-40 minutes of progress.
Matchmaking with Nightfalls would have significant problems. It starts with clueless people that quit out halfway through or don't bring the right weapons for the burn (you can already see this problem in the Weekly Heroic matchmaking).
Not being able to self-revive in a Nightfall also causes issues. What if two people are dead and the third person has gone AFK unexpectedly or refuses to revive?
Matchmaking with Nightfalls would have significant problems. It starts with clueless people that quit out halfway through or don't bring the right weapons for the burn (you can already see this problem in the Weekly Heroic matchmaking).
Not being able to self-revive in a Nightfall also causes issues. What if two people are dead and the third person has gone AFK unexpectedly or refuses to revive?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Eh, treat it as a Loss and move on. Just like if you die in a solo attempt, you have to try it again. Atleast you have the *option* of doing it with other people who will try. When thinking about how matchmaking would be, there is literally no point in thinking of only the negative, especially since you know that matchmaking for the weekly strike that ISN'T Nightfall is just fine.
GuitarAtomik
Member
I'll say it again, people said the same thing about MM for Weeklies and it was a godsend for me. BECAUSE of MM, I get more of them done consistently and faster than I did without. Nightfalls would be more frustrating when things go wrong. Sure. But again, the alternative most of the time for me is to try to do it solo or not at all. I'd rather have matchmaking and take the Ls when they come.
shanafan
Member
I never went into Destiny thinking the story would be on par with Star Wars or LOTR. I do not recall Bungie stating such (link me please if otherwise), but that might as well been your conceived hype for game and that wouldn't be Bungie's fault if you were let down.
I didn't find the story laughable. I love the first mission on Venus
with the flood of Vex you have to fight, and the follow up interaction with the Stranger.