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[UrbanRats]

I can't believe you people actually believe Sony isn't helping pay for this game. Shenmue 1 cost $70mil to make. Does anyone LITERALLY believe they can make a game on par with that, but with modern technology with $10mil?

Yes.
Many of the things Shenmue did were pioneering at the time, and absolutely common now.
Nowadays even indie developers try their hands at open world games, something back in the day would've been absurd.
Engines and technology have come a long way in making that process much more simple and intuitive.

If 40 millions back then got you Shenmue, today they get you much, much more (otherwise GTAV would've cost a billion dollars, considering how much more complex than Shenmue it is).
More over, nobody is expecting Shenmue 3 to look like The Witcher 3 or have that level of content.
If you get really down to it, the map in Shenmue wasn't all that big, and the systems that were absurd at the time, are pretty standard fare, for today's expectations.

I think 10 millions could get you a decently sized Shenmue, with assets, production values and content closer to what we got in 1999, but at a much cheaper price.
You don't need to spend nearly the same amount of time, trying to stream those 4 streets seamlessly, like you had to on Dreamcast.

 

[StealthGoblin]

It is only PS4 and PC.

Sony are helping with marketing just like they will with Amplitude etc. Same sort of arrangement. The big difference is Sony allowed this kickstarter to be announced on their stage instead of the PlayStation Blog.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Didn't realize there would be so much info about what Suzuki is doing and hoping for Shenmue 3 in this thread's OP.

I think the thread title doesn't help much. Should be something like: 'Shenmue 3 plans from Suzuki: set in Gulin, smaller open-world, weapon scrolls and minigames' or something else to that effect.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

I've wanted this for so long, but I can't bring myself to back this after the way it's been handled. Seems like it could be a train wreck, but if it's looking good around release I'll just buy it then.

It's now or never.

This is your best and only shot to get any more Shenmue and have it done right.

 

[Ubersnug]

So, without going through all 25 pages of this thread and the whole AMA, did anyone raise the obvious 'What about Xbox one?' Question on whether we will get a port eventually or is it locked to playstation and PC for good? The point about Sony not providing much gives me the hope that there is a chance.

 

[Krev]

So, without going through all 25 pages of this thread and the whole AMA, did anyone raise the obvious 'What about Xbox one?' Question on whether we will get a port eventually or is it locked to playstation and PC for good? The point about Sony not providing much gives me the hope that there is a chance.

Reading between the lines, I suspect Sony's contribution to development is the amount of money it takes to keep it console exclusive, with free marketing (like the Sony conference slot) the bonus for accepting their offer.

 

[2+2=5]

What a mess, people was promised to get Shenmue 3 if got 2 millions, now we find that at 2 millions the game will just look like Shenmue 3 but it will basically be nothing like the real thing and just to make it an open world it will need 5 times that amount of money he asked for, i wonder how much it will need to make the world as good as people say the real Shenmue is...

Yu Suzuki may be a genius but he's not transparent at all when asking for people's money.

 

[Withnail]

So, is there significant Sony funding or not? Is the game console exclusive to PS4 or not? We still don't seem to have any straightforward answers and that is a real problem. People can trash Kuchera's Polygon article all they want, I'm assuming out of love for the Shenmue franchise, but it raises valid and important questions. When a Kickstarter game appears on the E3 stage of a platform holder it is natural to ask what part said holder plays on the development of the game.

As I said before, I am not at all opposed to the idea of using Kickstarter in order to secure more funds and bring a niche project to life. However, when you are asking people to pay for a product that they will get after several years you need to be absolutely transparent about a) what kind of product it will be, what its scope will be depending on the amount raised, b) how much money you will need to complete it and c) where that money will come from. From my point of view the Shenmue Kickstarter campaign failed on all three fronts.

During the span of a few days we've heard several different versions about Sony's involvement with the project. At first it was "we just want to help out a friend so we're giving him the stage", then it was "if fans back it we will absolutely make this a reality", which is what got everyone thinking that Sony was heavily investing in the project and sparked the backlash, and now it's "we'll help with marketing and pay for a PS4 version". If I got something wrong please correct me, there have been so many confusing and contrasting statements that I may still have it wrong.

I suppose I am going to be called out as a 'concern troll', the idiotic blanket statement that is lately being used to deflect all criticism and dismiss legitimate concerns. There is an unbelievable amount of hostility being directed towards people who are basically saying "when you are asking for money directly from consumers in order to fund the game you have to be as clear and transparent as possible".

Why didn't everyone say the truth from the beginning? Kickstarter backers will fund most of the development and determine the game's scope, some external investors will chip in, Sony will pay for the PS4 port and some of the marketing. Clear as day. Would anyone have a problem with that? Why did we have to put up with all this obfuscation in the first place?

It's like the deal they have with No Man's Sky. Sony is marketing that, i.e. taking it to E3 and other stage shows etc, featuring it on the PS Blog. This IS a significant contribution to the development of the game, it is extremely valuable exposure, but it's difficult to describe it by a dollar amount. Sony will also no doubt be supporting with dev kits and maybe pub fund style loans against future earnings, and free patches down the line. In return they get short term exclusivity. They don't send a cheque - despite what gamers think, moneyhats aren't real, or at least they're extremely rare. Deals like this are all done though what's known as contribution-in-kind.

This is why it's impossible for Ys Net to state that Sony are putting in a certain number of dollars.

 

[Ishan]

It's like the deal they have with No Man's Sky. Sony is marketing that, i.e. taking it to E3 and other stage shows etc, featuring it on the PS Blog. This IS a significant contribution to the development of the game, it is extremely valuable exposure, but it's difficult to describe it by a dollar amount. Sony will also no doubt be supporting with dev kits and maybe pub fund style loans against future earnings, and free patches down the line. In return they get short term exclusivity. They don't send a cheque - despite what gamers think, moneyhats aren't real, or at least they're extremely rare. Deals like this are all done though what's known as contribution-in-kind.

This is why it's impossible for Ys Net to state that Sony are putting in a certain number of dollars.

Agree ppl think marketing and port money comes free . There is a reason this hasn't been a reality for 14 years the series does not sell enough to justify it's scope . The best parallel is a cs1.6 promode some ppl are passionate about it most aren't ... Do what needs to be done to get it done .or forget about it .

Edit: highly doubt this will come to xbox sony never says ps4/PC without a reason otherwise they use the term first on ps4 or console debut on ps4 ... They're very consistent with their wording

 

[AzureFlame]

Continue the story with anime movies if you can't with games xP.

 

[Panajev2001a]

What a mess, people was promised to get Shenmue 3 if got 2 millions, now we find that at 2 millions the game will just look like Shenmue 3 but it will basically be nothing like the real thing and just to make it an open world it will need 5 times that amount of money he asked for, i wonder how much it will need to make the world as good as people say the real Shenmue is...

Yu Suzuki may be a genius but he's not transparent at all when asking for people's money.

Shenmue never was an open world game. The $5-10 Million range would help make it something beyond a straight evolutionary sequel. Suzuki has been pretty honest IMHO.
Really, this game has so much scrutiny, doubt, and concern around it like I have not seen in a long time.

 

[Theonik]

What a mess, people was promised to get Shenmue 3 if got 2 millions, now we find that at 2 millions the game will just look like Shenmue 3 but it will basically be nothing like the real thing and just to make it an open world it will need 5 times that amount of money he asked for, i wonder how much it will need to make the world as good as people say the real Shenmue is...

Yu Suzuki may be a genius but he's not transparent at all when asking for people's money.

He was very transparent from the start $2m gets you the core game, but isn't really enough to do everything they want to do. This is a common strategy on Kickstarters. Asking for too much is very risky as it might affect the perception of your campaign, and the way KS works if he had collected say $5m, that's still enough to make a great game, not as big as he'd have hoped but enough to get something done, had he asked the full amount he'd have hoped to have though and hadn't hit it, then he gets $0 and the project doesn't get made which is certainly what no-one wants.

 

[Panajev2001a]

So, is there significant Sony funding or not? Is the game console exclusive to PS4 or not? We still don't seem to have any straightforward answers and that is a real problem. People can trash Kuchera's Polygon article all they want, I'm assuming out of love for the Shenmue franchise, but it raises valid and important questions. When a Kickstarter game appears on the E3 stage of a platform holder it is natural to ask what part said holder plays on the development of the game.

As I said before, I am not at all opposed to the idea of using Kickstarter in order to secure more funds and bring a niche project to life. However, when you are asking people to pay for a product that they will get after several years you need to be absolutely transparent about a) what kind of product it will be, what its scope will be depending on the amount raised, b) how much money you will need to complete it and c) where that money will come from. From my point of view the Shenmue Kickstarter campaign failed on all three fronts.

During the span of a few days we've heard several different versions about Sony's involvement with the project. At first it was "we just want to help out a friend so we're giving him the stage", then it was "if fans back it we will absolutely make this a reality", which is what got everyone thinking that Sony was heavily investing in the project and sparked the backlash, and now it's "we'll help with marketing and pay for a PS4 version". If I got something wrong please correct me, there have been so many confusing and contrasting statements that I may still have it wrong.

I suppose I am going to be called out as a 'concern troll', the idiotic blanket statement that is lately being used to deflect all criticism and dismiss legitimate concerns. There is an unbelievable amount of hostility being directed towards people who are basically saying "when you are asking for money directly from consumers in order to fund the game you have to be as clear and transparent as possible".

Why didn't everyone say the truth from the beginning? Kickstarter backers will fund most of the development and determine the game's scope, some external investors will chip in, Sony will pay for the PS4 port and some of the marketing. Clear as day. Would anyone have a problem with that? Why did we have to put up with all this obfuscation in the first place?

So you are essentially complaining that despite Sony on stage and Suzuki on kickstarter and interviews directly saying what you wanted to hear, gaming blogs and websites started hyping up another angle to the story and confused the message?!?

 

[hohoXD123]

What a mess, people was promised to get Shenmue 3 if got 2 millions, now we find that at 2 millions the game will just look like Shenmue 3 but it will basically be nothing like the real thing and just to make it an open world it will need 5 times that amount of money he asked for, i wonder how much it will need to make the world as good as people say the real Shenmue is...

Yu Suzuki may be a genius but he's not transparent at all when asking for people's money.

This is how every other kickstarter works. Ask for the amount that you actually want and it might not reach the goal, so you get no funding at all and the project is essentially dead. Instead ask for the bare minimum you need to make the game and use stretch goals/PayPal/external funding to get the game you actually want. At least he's being upfront about the costs well before the kickstarter ends. If he had done what you and many other people are asking, there's a good chance there wouldn't be a Shenmue 3 in any form.

 

[Spaghetti]

What a mess, people was promised to get Shenmue 3 if got 2 millions, now we find that at 2 millions the game will just look like Shenmue 3 but it will basically be nothing like the real thing and just to make it an open world it will need 5 times that amount of money he asked for, i wonder how much it will need to make the world as good as people say the real Shenmue is...

Yu Suzuki may be a genius but he's not transparent at all when asking for people's money.

i'm not even surprised you came back for a driveby post

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

I was watching the Shenmue post-mortem from last year and came to this bit. “Open World”. Is that what Yu Suzuki is referring to when he mentioned it for Shenmue III?

If so, Shenmue III not reaching, or even getting close to 10 million might mean that none of this stuff is going to be in Shenmue III. Or maybe I'm just overthinking things?

 

[JaseC]

People saying Sony are being mean with the amount they are willing to invest towards the development of the game, are missing one very important detail that came from the mouth of Adam Boyes, in that Gamespot interview.
They will go 'big' with the marketing of the game, according to him, which in today's landscape means a LOT of money. I would think it could easily outstrip the development of the game itself, especially if it is made on a budget of say, £7-10 million. Look at Witcher 3, where they spent as much on marketing as on developing a AAA open world rpg.
I think this is what Sony offered Y's net for console exclusivity - full marketing costs and to a lesser extent, some help with their development costs.

It means nothing -- it may mean something, but at this stage, it's just empty talk. Sony is a business and as such will naturally speak highly of the ventures with which it is involved. It really, truly and genuinely is that simple. That's not to say Boyes is lying -- maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but the proof will be in the pudding and not a moment sooner. In all likelihood, the degree to which Sony will market the game depends on how much the Kickstarter campaign generates, but expecting, say, a ~$5m Kickstarter campaign to result in a marketing period with an exponentially higher budget is, in all likelihood, setting yourself up for disappointment. Shenmue 3 isn't going to be spread across the world to the same degree as, say, Uncharted 4.

 

[Zemm]

Man you people need some perspective. The only ones who know about the Polygon article are the gaming hardcore. The ones here, who are currently being set straight.

Thats it. This has little to no bearing on the larger audience, you guys are caught up thinking the videogame landscape that pays attention to pr and articles is bigger than it is. Mainstream gamers heard about it at e3 and thats it. The Kickstarter is slowing down, BECAUSE thats what kickstarters too. Shenmue fans are a vocal minority.

You're panicked its not going to reach 10m so the blame begins. Additonally, Yu Suzuki NEVER said under 10m and it will be a barebones game. NEVER SAID IT. He said that if it hits 10 million it will truly be an open world game, as in pushing boundaries. Its regardless AN OPEN WORLD GAME, and is going to be like the previous Shenmues.

As he said about Bailu village and the like, they will still be areas in the game, the amount of depth, extras and sidequests within them increase with the budget. Thats common SENSE. So everyone stop acting like the sky is falling, its a bad look for Shenmue fans who have been dedicated and focused on a 3rd one. Everything is positive right now, you need to figure out how to get probably a final tally of 5.5-6 m closer to 10. Its NOT 10 or bust. Nobody ever said that. Stop whining about whiners and keep it about the kickstarter and raising the next dollar.

Also something else, to keep the sky from falling. Theres still the possibility of continued donations after the kickstarter. By no means assured, so lets try to hit the goal.

Thanks for this. Reading the first ten pages which were just 'fuck you' and blaming everyone else for the kickstarter drop off was embarrassing. Finally some perspective.

 

[alexandros]

So you are essentially complaining that despite Sony on stage and Suzuki on kickstarter and interviews directly saying what you wanted to hear, gaming blogs and websites started hyping up another angle to the story and confused the message?!?

No. There was no clear message to begin with.

 

[2+2=5]

Shenmue never was an open world game. The $5-10 Million range would help make it something beyond a straight evolutionary sequel. Suzuki has been pretty honest IMHO.
Really, this game has so much scrutiny, doubt, and concern around it like I have not seen in a long time.

He was very transparent from the start $2m gets you the core game, but isn't really enough to do everything they want to do. This is a common strategy on Kickstarters. Asking for too much is very risky as it might affect the perception of your campaign, and the way KS works if he had collected say $5m, that's still enough to make a great game, not as big as he'd have hoped but enough to get something done, had he asked the full amount he'd have hoped to have though and hadn't hit it, then he gets $0 and the project doesn't get made which is certainly what no-one wants.

This is how every other kickstarter works. Ask for the amount that you actually want and it might not reach the goal, so you get no funding at all and the project is essentially dead. Instead ask for the bare minimum you need to make the game and use stretch goals/PayPal/external funding to get the game you actually want. At least he's being upfront about the costs well before the kickstarter ends. If he had done what you and many other people are asking, there's a good chance there wouldn't be a Shenmue 3 in any form.

The problem is that usually kickstarted games are new ips, so you don't know what to expect, with Shenmue 3 people know exactly what they expect, "Shenmue 3" means lots of things and if you say that they will get Shenmue 3 with 2 millions(+ all the money from other sources) people expects it to have all the features of a Shenmue game.

Look at bloodstained for example, at 500k you get the full game(whatever it means), with all the other goals are just optionals to make the game bigger and better(ports, better music, david hayter, new modes etc), it promised a metroidvania game and at 500k you got a metroidvania, it didn't say that at 500k you got some levels but if you wanted it to be a metroidvania it needed 2.5m

In this case with 2m goal you just get something that is limited, not something like Shenmue 1 & 2 were.

i'm not even surprised you came back for a driveby post

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

What can i do, i really don't like when people is opaque, i don't use double standard just because we are talking about yu suzuki and Shenmue 3

 

[Corto]

No. There was no clear message to begin with.

There was a clear message alright. You want Shenmue 3? Kickstart it. Sony involvement and third party external sources of funding are ancillary to that goal. Nobody needs to know the exact value of SOny's or any other source of funding besides the Kickstarter. Yu Suzuki already gave the goalpost for the Kickstarter. 5M will have Shenmue 3 with a feature he really wants to have there, 10 M will have the fully realized pushing boundaries open world Shenmue 3. Kickstarter fund, and you know that as I seem to remember you participating in many KS threads, can't have a fixed budget in the start of the campaign. If the amount of money the project will get is an unknown the real budget for the project is also an unknown. They can have goalposts with stretch goals attached to them, but the final scope of the game can only be understood at the end of the campaign. And even then the game can slip into development troubles, and the budget can be burnt as a result of that (vide Broken Age). Yu Suzuki already told very clearly that the main source of budget will come from individual fans, all other funding sources will be secondary.

 

[Corto]

The problem is that usually kickstarted games are new ips, so you don't know what to expect, with Shenmue 3 people know exactly what they expect, "Shenmue 3" means lots of things and if you say that they will get Shenmue 3 with 2 millions(+ all the money from other sources) people expects it to have all the features of a Shenmue game.

Look at bloodstained for example, at 500k you get the full game(whatever it means), with all the other goals are just optionals to make the game bigger and better(ports, better music, david hayter, new modes etc), it promised a metroidvania game and at 500k you got a metroidvania, it didn't say that at 500k you got some levels but if you wanted it to be a metroidvania it needed 2.5m

In this case with 2m goal you just get something that is limited, not something like Shenmue 1 & 2 were.

Bullshit. At 2M you would get Shenmue 3 alright. Beyond that you will have a better Shenmue 3, with more content. Exactly the same as the Bloodstained kickstarter.

 

[2+2=5]

Bullshit. At 2M you would get Shenmue 3 alright. Beyond that you will have a better Shenmue 3, with more content. Exactly the same as the Bloodstained kickstarter.

That's not the impression i get, this is how i read all those things:
-at 2m you will get a barebones Shenmue 3("focused on story" as it's said)
-at 5 or 10m you get the real deal.

 

[Pennywise]

So, is there significant Sony funding or not? Is the game console exclusive to PS4 or not? We still don't seem to have any straightforward answers and that is a real problem. People can trash Kuchera's Polygon article all they want, I'm assuming out of love for the Shenmue franchise, but it raises valid and important questions. When a Kickstarter game appears on the E3 stage of a platform holder it is natural to ask what part said holder plays on the development of the game.

As I said before, I am not at all opposed to the idea of using Kickstarter in order to secure more funds and bring a niche project to life. However, when you are asking people to pay for a product that they will get after several years you need to be absolutely transparent about a) what kind of product it will be, what its scope will be depending on the amount raised, b) how much money you will need to complete it and c) where that money will come from. From my point of view the Shenmue Kickstarter campaign failed on all three fronts.

During the span of a few days we've heard several different versions about Sony's involvement with the project. At first it was "we just want to help out a friend so we're giving him the stage", then it was "if fans back it we will absolutely make this a reality", which is what got everyone thinking that Sony was heavily investing in the project and sparked the backlash, and now it's "we'll help with marketing and pay for a PS4 version". If I got something wrong please correct me, there have been so many confusing and contrasting statements that I may still have it wrong.

I suppose I am going to be called out as a 'concern troll', the idiotic blanket statement that is lately being used to deflect all criticism and dismiss legitimate concerns. There is an unbelievable amount of hostility being directed towards people who are basically saying "when you are asking for money directly from consumers in order to fund the game you have to be as clear and transparent as possible".

Why didn't everyone say the truth from the beginning? Kickstarter backers will fund most of the development and determine the game's scope, some external investors will chip in, Sony will pay for the PS4 port and some of the marketing. Clear as day. Would anyone have a problem with that? Why did we have to put up with all this obfuscation in the first place?

No need to directly play the victim role....

Anyway, I agree that to a certain extent the information policy isn't the best.
It all started with the kickstarter page itself, which kinda felt rushed and not fully thought out.
Both with informations itself and other things like the rewards that aren't all that interesting compared to other projects.

The rest of your criticism is partly right and partly wrong.
The scope of the game and in particular how comparable it is to the older titles is something that's definitely missing.
I get that they need to be a bit more flexible with that model kickstarter, still they should have taken a bit more time to sell their actual vision.
These informartions are a bit sparse, because just saying a it's a sequel isn't gonna help us that much with a game that's already that old.
The AMA wasn't that informative either, not many details were shared and the answers in general were a bit short.

Apart from that it's been pretty clear.

Sony is helping with marketing/development and will fund sum x, don't ever think they will openly declare what kind of sum that will be.
That's something they obviously won't do.
Same goes for the game being exclusive on consoles, there are working contracts and if there are any changes (the announcements of other platforms or other parties involved in funding the game), they got a certain time to announce it.

And obviously we don't know what else is part of the contract, for example if there is a flexible budget/funding or things that still have to be decided.
I mean Boyes made it pretty clear that they choose that role to skip the process of aquiring the funds at Sony in the usual manner, which would have taken alot more time...
With the kickstarter method they can measure the demand more easily and therefore aquire the necessary funds or get even more.
This is surely something that will develop over time and is nothing we will ever hear about, so it will lead to nothing to speculate about things like that.
It's certainly easier to convince the higher ups at Sony who will greenlight the funding to invest even more, if the Kickstarter is a big sucess...
Being flexible about something like that shouldn't suprise anyone, especially with a case like Shenmue.


Why would Boyes meet Suzuki for years, if they just paid for marketing and the PS4 version ?

 

[Corto]

That's not the impression i get, this is how i read all those things:
-at 2m you will get a barebones Shenmue 3("focused on story" as it's said)
-at 5 or 10m you get the real deal.

As every Kickstarter ever. At the first goalpost you will get a lesser experience than you could have beyond that. And the higher amount you'll get the better, bigger game you can have. Simple as that.

And as the Kickstarter for Shenmu2 3 is at 3,5 M at this point you can expect the 5M goal to be reached. Historically that's a sure thing. So we'll get the real deal (in your words). No need for worries then.

 

[Spaghetti]

What can i do, i really don't like when people is opaque, i don't use double standard just because we are talking about yu suzuki and Shenmue 3

given that you just jump into the thread and ignore the conversation around you to provoke people, i don't think you're as knowledgeable about this as you think you are

you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how kickstarters work, how investment works, and how video game development works.

you're just making a very cheap trolling effort. it's not going to stop shenmue 3. the fans win.

 

[Nibel]

I was watching the Shenmue post-mortem from last year and came to this bit. “Open World”. Is that what Yu Suzuki is referring to when he mentioned it for Shenmue III?

If so, Shenmue III not reaching, or even getting close to 10 million might mean that none of this stuff is going to be in Shenmue III. Or maybe I'm just overthinking things?

tbh not like every little thing of these are necessary. There is stuff in Shenmue 2 I spent like 5 minutes with and moved on.

 

[alexandros]

There was a clear message alright. You want Shenmue 3? Kickstart it. Sony involvement and third party external sources of funding are ancillary to that goal. Nobody needs to know the exact value of SOny's or any other source of funding besides the Kickstarter.

I respectfully disagree. In my opinion, when asking gamers to directly fund your game you need to be clear and transparent about everything from the start.

 

[Tuffty]

Someone tell me what the downside to the consumer is here? You pledge money towards a project, you get a game back (along with other physical/digital goods depending on the amount pledged). Whatever they do with the money is to their discretion but if you really think they're going to somehow use the money illicitly then...I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Theonik]

That's not the impression i get, this is how i read all those things:
-at 2m you will get a barebones Shenmue 3("focused on story" as it's said)
-at 5 or 10m you get the real deal.

You will get a Shenmue III, add more money and you get a better Shenmue III, exactly like other Kickstarters. If anything the Shenmue III KS is more honest about what it is.
Also trust me, there are a lot of Shenmue fans that were prepared to accept a novel or comicbook adaptation to finish the story. Getting just that is enough for a lot of them, that's why the focus is to provide a solid skeleton of the game's plot as the baseline and then flesh out the open world depending on the budget with $10m allowing the devs to really do the things they wanted to do with pushing the game's open world. They are being realistic. The alternative is the game doesn't exist at all and that's something fans wouldn't want either.

 

[GavinGT]

I was watching the Shenmue post-mortem from last year and came to this bit. “Open World”. Is that what Yu Suzuki is referring to when he mentioned it for Shenmue III?

If so, Shenmue III not reaching, or even getting close to 10 million might mean that none of this stuff is going to be in Shenmue III. Or maybe I'm just overthinking things?

I take his statement to mean that $10 million will get us the level of world detail that he hopes for. Less money will mean cutting some things out, but the game will still be of the "go anywhere" variety.

 

[Chobel]

I respectfully disagree. In my opinion, when asking gamers to directly fund your game you need to be clear and transparent about everything from the start.

They are very "clear and transparent" about it now.

 

[Tuffty]

You will get a Shenmue III, add more money and you get a better Shenmue III, exactly like other Kickstarters. If anything the Shenmue III KS is more honest about what it is.
Also trust me, there are a lot of Shenmue fans that were prepared to accept a novel or comicbook adaptation to finish the story. Getting just that is enough for a lot of them, that's why the focus is to provide a solid skeleton of the game's plot as the baseline and then flesh out the open world depending on the budget with $10m allowing the devs to really do the things they wanted to do with pushing the game's open world. They are being realistic. The alternative is the game doesn't exist at all and that's something fans wouldn't want either.

Exactly this. Thank you for summarising it.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

tbh not like every little thing of these are necessary. There is stuff in Shenmue 2 I spent like 5 minutes with and moved on.

I take his statement to mean that $10 million will get us the level of world detail that he hopes for. Less money will mean cutting some things out, but the game will still be of the "go anywhere" variety.

But I want all that extra stuff.

: (

 

[GavinGT]

tbh not like every little thing of these are necessary. There is stuff in Shenmue 2 I spent like 5 minutes with and moved on.

Yeah, Shenmue II was really overkill in a lot of ways. Why the hell do I need a building with 20 different individually modeled tea shops? I can't do a damn thing in any of them. At least in Shenmue 1 I could go in a shop and zoom in on objects and Ryo would say something about them.

And the fact that I could enter nearly any of the hundreds of apartments in Kowloon was ultimately pointless. Was there anything of note in any of those? I gave up looking after just a few.

 

[Theonik]

But I want all that extra stuff.

: (

Time to work 4 part-time jobs, run a lucky hit stand and win a lot of duck races.

Yeah, Shenmue II was really overkill in a lot of ways. Why the hell do I need a building with 20 different individually modeled tea shops? I can't do a damn thing in any of them. At least in Shenmue 1 I could go in a shop and zoom in on objects and Ryo would say something about them.

And the fact that I could enter nearly any of the hundreds of apartments in Kowloon was ultimately pointless. Was there anything of note in any of those? I gave up looking after just a few.

Yes, there was a lot of extraneous detail in the previous games, but to be fair I wouldn't like to lose that but I can definitely put up with it. I mean sure, the fact that you could do that was one of the mind-blowing things about the game at the time and it still is, but say look at a modern open-world game and none of them really allow you that kind of freedom.
I somehow cannot really be outraged if a game that doesn't get $10m doesn't feel like a $10m game. I mean if we had that money that's an entirely different story and certainly they do wish they could get that. They are trying to prioritise based on the amount of money they are given.

 

[Ishan]

It means nothing -- it may mean something, but at this stage, it's just empty talk. Sony is a business and as such will naturally speak highly of the ventures with which it is involved. It really, truly and genuinely is that simple. That's not to say Boyes is lying -- maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but the proof will be in the pudding and not a moment sooner. In all likelihood, the degree to which Sony will market the game depends on how much the Kickstarter campaign generates, but expecting, say, a ~$5m Kickstarter campaign to result in a marketing period with an exponentially higher budget is, in all likelihood, setting yourself up for disappointment. Shenmue 3 isn't going to be spread across the world to the same degree as, say, Uncharted 4.

Well I guess if anyone thought shenmue was going to get uc4 levels of marketing they were deluding themselves to the same extent as thinking tlg wil get halo5 levels of marketing . One is a passion/hardcore oriented title another is super mainstream ... But and I've said this before while I do beliebe ppl should
Just assume and fund this by themselves ... All parties need to be a bit clearer simply given the muddled pr that has come from multiple fronts ... Yes if we shift thru it it becomes clear (dev majority yu . Sony does port plus marketing etc etc) . It's already such a mess and give how high profile this is within the gaming hardcore might as well
Clarify it's not like most console gamers will care anyway . Might as well appease the pitchfork holders what's the harm imo ...

 

[snoopers]

Yeah, Shenmue II was really overkill in a lot of ways. Why the hell do I need a building with 20 different individually modeled tea shops? I can't do a damn thing in any of them. At least in Shenmue 1 I could go in a shop and zoom in on objects and Ryo would say something about them.

And the fact that I could enter nearly any of the hundreds of apartments in Kowloon was ultimately pointless. Was there anything of note in any of those? I gave up looking after just a few.

I agree that it's pointless but on the other hand, they had an automatic system to do that (the "magic room"), they didn't design each room individually themselves. The same tech also served for creating the forest in disc 4. Also, pointless things are important in a game like Shenmue. I remember having to find something / someone in one of those buildings, and the fact that you could open the wrong door and still be allowed to explore those rooms and lose yourself in that maze gave an impressive sense of scale and reality.

Anyway the tech (and much more) is explained in a Shenmue post-mortem talk Yu Suzuki gave at GDC in 2014.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amu0_EunHmM

 

[ShenmueNextGen]

THESE ARE THE TRUE ANTI-CLICKBAIT FACTS! PLEASE SPREAD THE TRUTH EVERYWHERE YOU CAN!

On what should be the happiest week that Shenmue fans could imagine (and it is), there are nonetheless people out there intent on raining on our parade with misinformed and misreported claims.

Since the beginning of our campaign to revive the Shenmue series, we've had to untangle web after web of misinformation propagated by lazy journalists. So it's almost fitting that on the week Shenmue III is finally announced, we're doing more of the same.

We wouldn't mind, but the irresponsible clickbait polluting the Internet over this issue could easily harm the continued success of the Kickstarter we've all waited so long to embrace, and without more stretch goals being reached there will be noticeable limitations on what can be achieved in developing Shenmue III.

Sony are not the Fairy Godmother waving their magic wand to fully fund this game. They are providing some financial assistance to get it onto PS4 and helping a lot with marketing, as it's phenomenal PR for their brand to do so. But this is Yu Suzuki's independently owned project and crowdfunding is critical in deciding the scope of its actual development.

By this stage we expect no better from the media, but we implore all fans to arm themselves with the facts and spread the truth to combat any negativity being falsely aimed at this Kickstarter.

We still need YOU to ‪#‎SaveShenmue‬.

 

[Ishan]

I agree that it's pointless but on the other hand, they had an automatic system to do that (the "magic room"), they didn't design each room individually themselves. The same tech also served for creating the forest in disc 4.

It's all explained in a Shenmue post-mortem talk Yu Suzuki gave at GDC in 2014.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amu0_EunHmM

Haven't followed or played shenmue much but essentially the sense I always got was it was super bloated for example some of the things fans point out about their fav
Parts eg npcs actually know you to varying levels etc ... Just are really
Labour intensive some aspects open world graphics engine etc have gotten cheaper but let's all be realistic there is a reason this game hasn't gotten funded in ages ... Also I'm sure ms not marketing s2 and it bombing sales wise is a major factor too ... I maintain it as passion project with a vocal
And willing fan base ... You guys have the chance now ... I don't see any reason not
To if you love this game ... (Still surprises me that wonky guy who said he's been waiting for this for ages but will wait for release and then maybe buy it ... Makes no sense in my head )

 

[Koren]

With the kickstarter method they can measure the demand more easily

I stil disagree on this. You measure the fan support, not the commercial appeal.

A niche game with a really strong fanbase can make a kickstarter really successful. That doesn't mean that the game will be a large commercial success.

Let's assume that Shenmue Kickstarter gather 8 million dollars from 100k backers (probably doable with some luck), I don't think that'll speak a lot for the final demand, since I expect a lot of people interested in Shenmue 3 to participate in the kickstarter campaign.


If you judge commercial success with Kickstarter, Ouya has a nice future (8M on KS) and Pebble Time (20M) will find success alongside Apple Watch and other Android wearables. As much as I like Pebble (and I'm a backer), I fully expect it to be a niche market since most people that could be interested have probably heard about the KS campaign.

 

[Ishan]

I stil disagree on this. You measure the fan support, not the commercial appeal.

A niche game with a really strong fanbase can make a kickstarter really successful. That doesn't mean that the game will be a large commercial success.

Let's assume that Shenmue Kickstarter gather 8 million dollars from 100k backers (probably doable with some luck), I don't think that'll speak a lot for the final demand, since I expect a lot of people interested in Shenmue 3 to participate in the kickstarter campaign.


If you judge commercial success with Kickstarter, Ouya has a nice future (8M on KS) and Pebble Time (20M) will find success alongside Apple Watch and other Android wearables. As much as I like Pebble (and I'm a backer), I fully expect it to be a niche market since most people that could be interested have probably heard about the KS campaign.

This. Ks used to gauge interest only proved there is some interest does not mean mass interest .

 

[Neverforget]

What a mess! I feel like the Kickstarter would have been a huge success if they didn't have anything to do with Sony whatsoever.

Misinformation got people confused and killed the hype, what a waste.

 

[Resilient]

I'm still in on this, and will most likely bump my pledge up just before the KS ends. I want to see this get over the line.

I'm hoping some influential figures in the industry can help to change the tide of this situation. Unless more outlets start reporting the truth, and what we need to make Shemnue 3 the best it can be, it may fall short of the mark.

 

[publicpwnerer]

I stil disagree on this. You measure the fan support, not the commercial appeal.

A niche game with a really strong fanbase can make a kickstarter really successful. That doesn't mean that the game will be a large commercial success.

Let's assume that Shenmue Kickstarter gather 8 million dollars from 100k backers (probably doable with some luck), I don't think that'll speak a lot for the final demand, since I expect a lot of people interested in Shenmue 3 to participate in the kickstarter campaign.


If you judge commercial success with Kickstarter, Ouya has a nice future (8M on KS) and Pebble Time (20M) will find success alongside Apple Watch and other Android wearables. As much as I like Pebble (and I'm a backer), I fully expect it to be a niche market since most people that could be interested have probably heard about the KS campaign.

No real Shenmu fan (imo) thinks that Shenmue 3 is going to be a commercial success, it can't be. It won't be. The fans just want a conclusion to such a fantastic series.

Even if an HD port of 1+2 is made...no gamer today is going to appreciate just how incredible the series is, especially in comparison to what we have now.

 

[Koren]

No real Shenmu fan (imo) thinks that Shenmue 3 is going to be a commercial success, it can't be. It won't be. The fans just want a conclusion to such a fantastic series.

And I can understand this...

(I can also understand fans that think that a half-baked ending of Shenmue, because of low funds, is worse than no ending at all, because as much as I'd like to see the remainding chapters of Ogre Saga, I'm not sure I want them butchered by a low-budget project)


That's the reason why I urge anyone interested in Shenmue 3 to support the KS, because I don't think Sony has reason to invest millions in Shenmue 3 development. They'll do the marketing (partly because it works both ways, it's a nice PS4 advertisment even with people not interested in Shenmue, if only because all websites will write many articles on this) but most of the money invested in development may come from the campaign (even Yu Suzuki has confirmed that).

If the KS end with 5 million, you'll get a 5-7 million $ game... And even if the original Shenmue costs exploded because many things were new, the scope of Shenmue 3 will heavily depends on the amount of money gathered.

 

[GavinGT]

No real Shenmu fan (imo) thinks that Shenmue 3 is going to be a commercial success, it can't be. It won't be. The fans just want a conclusion to such a fantastic series.

Even if an HD port of 1+2 is made...no gamer today is going to appreciate just how incredible the series is, especially in comparison to what we have now.

To be fair, we don't know how a Shenmue game will sell on a successful platform. There were only a few million Dreamcasts out there by the time Shenmue was released worldwide. Shenmue II didn't even get a worldwide release on Dreamcast, and the console was on its last legs at that point anyways. And there were only about 5 million Xboxes sold by the time Shenmue II released on that console.

In contrast, there could be as many as 50 million PS4s sold by winter 2017.

 

[Koren]

To be fair, we don't know how a Shenmue game will sell on a successful platform. [...] In contrast, there could be as many as 50 million PS4s sold by winter 2017.

But that's not Shenmue (ambitious project) but Shenmue 3 (lower budget project to conclude a story that most PS4 owners don't know).

It's not easy to sell million copies of a story-driven game when people haven't played the first and second parts, even on a successful hardware...

(and besides, I'm not even convinced Shenmue would have been a real huge success even on a successful hardware, but I admit that's my guess)

 

[Spottiettiedop]

To be fair, we don't know how a Shenmue game will sell on a successful platform. There were only a few million Dreamcasts out there by the time Shenmue was released worldwide. Shenmue II didn't even get a worldwide release on Dreamcast, and the console was on its last legs at that point anyways. And there were only about 5 million Xboxes sold by the time Shenmue II released on that console.

In contrast, there could be as many as 50 million PS4s sold by winter 2017.

That's why its puzzling to me that Sony has not at least publicly ensure that S3 will meet or exceeds Suzuki's expectation. Make the best game possible within the reasonable budget proposed by Suzuki, worry about advertising etc 2nd.

 

[AlphaDump]

this could be a very bad PR move on Sony's part if the funding doesn't go through or isn't fully realized at 10 million.

the momentum and PR right now is certainly in their favor..