Support NeoGAF

[Y2Kev]

I don't buy it. Memory card prices are a thorn in the side of everyone when the device needs one to work, as the Vita did. Essentially every potential Vita customer needed one. I can easily imagine millions of casuals thinking the Vita looked like a good purchase, then seeing the memory cards at prices roughly triple to quadruple that of microSD and immediately going 'nope' on principle. If it had had 16 GB of internal storage then I'd agree though - that's arguably how the 360 got away with its hard drive prices.

And I don't see how Sony subsidizing the Vita price with the cards would counterbalance anything in the minds of consumers. At the time of the Vita launch the 3DS was about $80 cheaper. No one was thinking of the Vita as relatively cheap and accepting the memory prices based on that. It was, rightly or wrongly, seen as being sold at a premium price, and I think the hugely expensive memory pushed that over the edge.

There were no casuals looking at Vita. It was not a device aimed at "casuals." Those people were better served by phones.

 

[flaviusconstantius]

The VITA was a victim of four things.

1. Rampant piracy at the end of the PSP/DS generation. The issue was not the piracy itself, but the ease of it, which had parents buying elementary school kids flash cards. This drove Western developers out of the handheld market completely

2. The disastrous PS3 launch. Sony ended up spending billions subsidizing the PS3 by more than the price of a Vita in order to even get the system competitive. Handheld development? Sony was desperate just to get multiplats onto the PS3 at a semi-stable frame-rate.

This did not mean that Sony did not support the Vita, but it meant that Sony could not save it if it ran into trouble, as they already were using those resources to save the PS3. It is no coincidence the market where Sony dumped the Vita most fully, the USA, is also where Microsoft was strongest.

3. The rise of mobile.

#3 was the backdrop, and perhaps the reason for no Vita 2, but the Vita was abandoned for reasons #1 and #2
.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

I'd say the only effect piracy had on the Vita was the introduction of the memory cards, which made the system more costly when it was already far from cheap. I don't think piracy on previous platforms played any part in the lack of support for the device. Vita is still not cracked to this day, devs are safe to make a game for it without fear of this.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

When it was revealed and priced, when the games were announced, right up to launch it was a very positive view.

Literally, the biggest complaint was memory card prices, but the system had so much going for it.... but it went from being positive to being really forgotten.

The biggest shame is that Sony make FANTASTIC portable systems and no one seems to care.

 

[Oersted]

I don't buy it. Memory card prices are a thorn in the side of everyone when the device needs one to work, as the Vita did. Essentially every potential Vita customer needed one. I can easily imagine millions of casuals thinking the Vita looked like a good purchase, then seeing the memory cards at prices roughly triple to quadruple that of microSD and immediately going 'nope' on principle. If it had had 16 GB of internal storage then I'd agree though - that's arguably how the 360 got away with its hard drive prices.

And I don't see how Sony subsidizing the Vita price with the cards would counterbalance anything in the minds of consumers. At the time of the Vita launch the 3DS was about $80 cheaper. No one was thinking of the Vita as relatively cheap and accepting the memory prices based on that. It was, rightly or wrongly, seen as being sold at a premium price, and I think the hugely expensive memory pushed that over the edge.

What did the the whole memory debacle actually bigger for me was the fact that you can only use them with Vita. A overpriced offering which works out of millions of devices with... just one.

When it was revealed and priced, when the games were announced, right up to launch it was a very positive view.

Literally, the biggest complaint was memory card prices, but the system had so much going for it.... but it went from being positive to being really forgotten.

The biggest shame is that Sony make FANTASTIC portable systems and no one seems to care.

Portable systems? Plural?

 

[SmokedMeat]

I think in the best case scenario and with the right software Vita could have come close to the 1/3 or so of PSP sales 3DS managed to keep against DS, but it's only sold the barest fraction that PSP has. Obviously the lack of Monster Hunter at launch was a nightmare scenario for Vita, but I think the lack of strong Square-Enix titles also helped pile on the woes. Basically, Japan was crucial for Vita like PSP before it, but it just wasn't enough this time round. Japan becoming the world's number one consumer of mobile games in the only market that was ever going to give the Vita a chance killed it right out of the gate. The rest of the world was more willing to give Nintendo a chance.

Losing Monster Hunter hurt, but what hurt the most was stopping piracy. Piracy was no doubt the biggest reason they sold as many PSP systems they did, because it was a cinch to do.

If PSP was locked down, it wouldn't have done nearly as well as it did. So with Vita you have another Sony handheld, but one that lacks some of the bigger name exclusives PSP had, plus the ability to download them for free.

That's a recipe for disaster, and unless you plan on giving away your games, there's no point in a new handheld. Besides, Sony has a presence on mobile, and should focus better on that.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

Portable systems? Plural?

PSP and Vita were both great handhelds and both ahead of their competition in terms of hardware.

They both brought fantastic game libraries and both suffered the same fate of "indifference" despite being the two highest selling non-Nintendo handhelds.

 

[Maedhros]

Only desilusional people think that a Vita 2 could be better if Sony gave their support.

Vita is dead guys. Sony in the handheld space is dead.

I'm going back to Nintendo next. Hopefully it'll be better than 3DS, as I thought this was really bad compared to the DS..

 

[test_account]

What did the the whole memory debacle actually bigger for me was the fact that you can only use them with Vita. A overpriced offering which works out of millions of devices with... just one.

Which other devices do you think you would switch the memory card between the Vita and device X/Y if it was compatible with more than the Vita?

 

[Oersted]

PSP and Vita were both great handhelds and both ahead of their competition in terms of hardware.

They both brought fantastic game libraries and both suffered the same fate of "indifference" despite being the two highest selling non-Nintendo handhelds.

PSP did fairly well and the response wasn't indifference.

Which other devices do you think you would switch the memory card between the Vita and device X/Y if it was compatible with more than the Vita?

Thats not the point?

 

[Dunan]

How about selling the games via digital download..... that'd capture more people.

Physical is dead on mobile.

I have no problem with digital downloads being available -- it goes without saying in this era -- but physical games can be resold when you're done with them, meaning that the required investment, and risk if you don't like the product, is lower.

What are you talking about? ¥9,411, which converts to $78 USD.

That's an artifact of the Bank of Japan's devaluation of the yen. Just three years ago, 9411 yen was over $120. Now Japan gets pseudo-lower prices for memory cards and accessories (when measured in dollars).

 

[JCX]

Hopefully the Nx handheld is atleast powerful enough for gamecube/ps2 games

Of course it will. 3DS already runs Tales of the Abyss (PS2) and Xenoblade (Wii).

 

[kuroshiki]

Of course it will. 3DS already runs Tales of the Abyss (PS2) and Xenoblade (Wii).

uh.

not the best example at all.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Hopefully the Nx handheld is atleast powerful enough for gamecube/ps2 games

At the rapid pace mobile is moving, it had better be able to handle more than that.

 

[small44]

The real problem is 3rd party don't want to support handheld,Vita support was way behind PSP support which was consider bad too

 

[dragonyeuw]

Memory Card Prices

Memory card prices are a big thorn in the side of the hardcore, but I’m not sure they really dissuaded a large number of buyers in the mainstream. Sony basically subsidized the price of the Vita with the price of the memory cards; the price of the memory cards lowered the price of the Vita and therefore I feel this is largely had a counterbalancing effect. The hardcore are more interested in digital sales and carrying large libraries. I understand and appreciate that expensive memory cards are annoying and frustrating for the core, but I think its myopic to believe this had any real effect. I think it is far more likely this limited the Vita’s ability to penetrate the hardcore audience (say a total demographic of 20 million gamers) than reach the mainstream. We’re talking about the successor to a platform that sold 80+ million units. I do not believe this can be attributed to memory card prices.

The unfortunate reality is that we'll never really know one way or the other how much impact the memory card prices had. With how digital is being pushed nowadays, the average mobile entertainment user knows that 4,8, and 16 gb storage is paltry. Even 32gb is the bare minimum if you want to have a decent on-hand digital library, and when you start getting into 3-4 gb games, that 32gb starts shrinking real quick. The Vita could have launched with at least 8gb internal storage, enough for game saves-THEN if you want a digital library provide the customers with attractively priced storage options.

So when people look at the lone external memory option( considering that most other portable devices have some kind of included storage, either internal or cheap external SD options) and they see the 32gb retailing at a launch MSRP of $99...yeah I can see that being a turn-off. Not to the point of losing 3/4 of the PSP base, but you were forking out $350 at launch for Vita+the only decent sized card. That's pretty much getting into home console territory at that point. And since even Nintendo found out that $250 handhelds don't sell, and they've ruled the market for 25 years, Sony had no chance in hell of gettting over with their pricing model

Not only is it a deterrent for prospective buyers, but even for those who bought the Vita. How many of us, with a cheap storage option, would have purchased more digital titles( raises both hands)? Give me a $40 64gb card (even that's more expensive than similar size micro SD, but I accept the slight premium given its proprietary status) and I'd have loaded it up with PSN titles. Sure, I could go the route of swapping titles in and out using the content manager, but we all know how painfully slow that is, and it kinda trumps the 'convenience' factor that should be synonymous with a portable device.

I would also arguing that the decisions to use OLED screens, rear and front touch-interfaces, sounded attractive in theory but drove the price up to where they had to use memory cards to subsidize the cost. I think those design choices, as much as we love 'dat OLED', proved to be erroneous.

 

[James Scott]

Instead of smaller versions of their console games, I think I would've been wise for Sony's AAA teams to form small studios to make sequels to their past games. I think Naughty Dog making a Jak and Daxter game, Insomniac making a Ratchet game, and sucker punch making a Sly game would've benefited the system. Those are mid tier franchises on consoles but could be full releases on Vita.
If Vita ran android it could've potentially increased 3rd party output and allow for the library to be transferred to Sony Phones in the future more easily which could've potentially extended the life of the system at the cost of a more piracy prone hardware

 

[Diablos]

Nice to see Sony coming to their senses.

Vita 2 would not be viable.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

I keep telling myself that being a phone combined with the right marketing/gaming partnerships would make it viable.

But then I look back at my N-Gage, and the Xperia Play, and I'm just not sure...

 

[test_account]

Thats not the point?

Then what is the point? You said that it made it a bigger deal for you, so i was just curious to which other device you would have used it on. If you didnt want to use it on any other device, then why does it matter if it only work on one device?

EDIT: I fixed a typo.

 

[Y2Kev]

The unfortunate reality is that we'll never really know one way or the other how much impact the memory card prices had.

I think we know that it wasn't the reason it didn't sell 80 million or 60 million or 40 million units.

And since even Nintendo found out that $250 handhelds don't sell, and they've ruled the market for 25 years, Sony had no chance in hell of gettting over with their pricing model

The PSP launched at 250 in the US and it did pretty well. The market just totally shifted in 8 years.

Again, this is about demographic shifts and poor concept design, not memory card prices.

Not only is it a deterrent for prospective buyers, but even for those who bought the Vita. How many of us, with a cheap storage option, would have purchased more digital titles( raises both hands)?

I'm not sure you're getting what I'm saying or that you are really the good test case here. It's not about the hardcore buying more software or penetrating more of the hardcore. It's about reaching people better served by other devices. The price is obviously an issue there, but a price that is non-zero is also an issue there. It's about the device itself not at all being geared towards the mainstream market. It was designed as an incredibly niche device. Memory cards limited its ability to penetrate the hardcore, I agree. But that's not why it's a flop.

 

[the-pi-guy]

I see a lot of posts lamenting the death (or non-life) of the Vita. I find there to be a lot of misinformation and/or misattribution of responsibility for the reasons why the device failed. I am interested in having a discussion. Put bluntly, I believe that if you believe the Vita failed because a) Sony did not have its “big” first party studios working on it, b) because memory cards were expensive, or because c) it wasn’t “marketed,” I would suggest you should reevaluate your position.

Any position is hypothesized. We can't know for certain that such and such reasons absolutely caused the Vita to not sell as well. Any and all evaluations are educated guesses. Unless we have some alternative dimension device where we can see first hand, that regardless of these factors the Vita situation wouldn't change, we can't know for certain that it's the case. The best we can get to knowing is through surveys and educated guesses through market opinion. But these are still going to be speculation.

Sony’s Big First Party Studios

Disagree, that it's the first party that was missing.
On consoles, games like CoD and GTA sell the most. CoD was present on Vita, and it did fairly well, but it's considered a mediocre game. 33 is generally considered an awful score.

Vita is a true failure of marketing, but not a failure of advertising. It was designed for an audience that does not exist at a price point they do not want to pay with software people do not largely want to buy.

Agreed. My thoughts are that if someone is given reason to buy something, they likely will. The Vita on the other hand has few reasons to buy it for the hardcore, and far fewer reasons for the mainstream.

 

[……forgetit]

I keep telling myself that being a phone combined with the right marketing/gaming partnerships would make it viable.

But then I look back at my N-Gage, and the Xperia Play, and I'm just not sure...

People update their phones too often. They'd have to make a new Vita phone every year to stay competitive and then they go from a market with one competitor to one with dozens. A Vita phone, heck a "game" phone in general is a horrible idea.

 

[depward]

Was a huge PSP fan. Am a huge Vita fan.

In both cases, I've purchased more titles on these consoles than any other I've owned.

It's a niche console, plain and simple. I totally get the quote and unfortunately have to agree: if they want to make money, it's not going to be with vita 2.

It's an amazing console with some terrific titles. Good time for people wanting to jump in, as the price is right and there are some great games to be had for cheap.

 

[JCX]

uh.

not the best example at all.

TotA runs better than on PS2. XC3D can't judge since I didn't buy it, but it is a Wii game on 3DS, so I'm not sure why people think the NX handheld will be less powerful than 3DS somehow.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

It's hilarious how Sony try and palm it off on just the "climate". Public interest in handhelds has gone down, nobody can deny it. But Nintendo saw that too, and did everything in their power to stem the tide.

Sony basically rolled over, tossed out a few ports and called it a day.

 

[Bgamer90]

When it was revealed and priced, when the games were announced, right up to launch it was a very positive view.

Literally, the biggest complaint was memory card prices, but the system had so much going for it.... but it went from being positive to being really forgotten.

The biggest shame is that Sony make FANTASTIC portable systems and no one seems to care.

The positive view came from hardcore gamers. The system was too overpriced to ever take off with the mainstream market. That's on top of the game library; Very few people are going to spend $300+ on a handheld that plays worse versions of games that they already have and/or play at home on their (big screen) TV.

Heck, many people don't have the time to actually play these experiences on the go anyway. Gaming on iOS has taken off because many of the popular games are easy to pick up and play in short 5-15 minute bursts and the games are cheap. Sony pushed/targeted the Vita in the opposite direction --- hence why the system sold poorly and was mainly bought by (very) hardcore gamers.

 

[test_account]

It's hilarious how Sony try and palm it off on just the "climate". Public interest in handhelds has gone down, nobody can deny it. But Nintendo saw that too, and did everything in their power to stem the tide.

Sony basically rolled over, tossed out a few ports and called it a day.

To be fair, it was a question asked with a live audience and no prepreation. Asking about specific upcoming plans for companies on the spot like that will pretty much always result in more vague answers.

Personally, i also think that the answer that was given about the climate implies that they (Sony) dont think that they can do anything to really make such an investment worthwhile. If they truly believed in turning the tide, i'm sure that they would have made another attempt at it. New products means new ideas and new opportunies after all.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Here we go again.

The climate is harsh for a dedicated handheld gaming device aimed at 18-40 year old males. Harsh is putting it mildly.

Yep. Especially in the US. Most people are driving to work and live in houses with more than one tv, so there's just not a lot of incentive to game in portables outside if the uber hardcore that just have to play everything.

I have a Vita and N3DS, but they mostly gather dust as I have a mancave that I can game in whenever, and much prefer playing in a big screen. So I can't see buying another portable in the future. Mobile is good enough if I want a quick game on the go. Even then I'm more apt to just read or good online on my phone instead of playing a game. I do more than enough game playing at home.

It's hilarious how Sony try and palm it off on just the "climate". Public interest in handhelds has gone down, nobody can deny it. But Nintendo saw that too, and did everything in their power to stem the tide.

Sony basically rolled over, tossed out a few ports and called it a day.

To be fair, Nintendo has the kid market locked up, and always have in the portable arena. And they also had a disappointing, sales wise, console out. So it was easier for them to not drop off as much as Sony. There's just not much of a market for portables among adult gamers in the west for the reasons above.

 

[dragonyeuw]

I think we know that it wasn't the reason it didn't sell 80 million or 60 million or 40 million units.

Which is why I said it wasn't the cause for a 3/4 install base drop from the PSP, but it can't be dismissed as a non-factor either. It's just not something we can quantity. The Vita's misfortune was a death by thousand cuts scenario, for which memory cards fall on the self-inflicted side. The 3ds may or may not meet what PSP sold, which is a huge indication of how much contraction has occurred, but it sells enough to justify its existence and a successor, in whatever form it ends up. If anything, the DS was an aberration( much like the Wii) and the 3ds is simply a return to more realistic GB level sales.

Going back to my previous point about hardware choices, I'm willing to bet that had you been able to walk out the door with a Vita AND decent storage for $200 at launch, the system may even be double its current install base. No, not setting the world on fire, but at least healthy enough to justify more attention from developers, even if only enticing indie companies to create Vita-exclusive content. I'm on the side that thinks Sony provided some good direct support, at least up to Tearaway. Some of their titles led to mixed results, but that's no different from the norm. The reality is, between their storage cards and hardware choices, the system was not designed to be flexible with price cuts in response to either their direct competition or the paradigm shifts in the market.

The PSP launched at 250 in the US and it did pretty well. The market just totally shifted in 8 years.

Again, this is about demographic shifts and poor concept design, not memory card prices.

Forgive my lack of saying 'under current market conditions' previously, but yes I did mean that a handheld priced at $250 nowadays is a hard sell.

It's about the device itself not at all being geared towards the mainstream market. It was designed as an incredibly niche device. Memory cards limited its ability to penetrate the hardcore, I agree. But that's not why it's a flop.

Again, I'm not arguing that it was THE reason. It just wasn't a net-positive, and it was a deterrent on some level, both to the mass market and to owners to invest greater in the PSN ecosystem. To what extent, again, cannot be quantified. I just disagree that it can be outright dismissed. I also wouldn't say it was designed as a niche device, not intentionally anyway. Rather, there were some miscalculations on what kind of device would sell to the mass market.

 

[Snaku]

I guess the NX Handheld won't have any competition next year. Though it's sad to see Sony leave the market. While their reason is justified, I do think that Nintendo needs some kind of competition in the dedicated gaming handheld market.

You think the PSP and Vita were competition? Heh.

 

[whitehawk]

PSP also did well at first because it was the best mobile video/music/picture device all in one. The iPod video I think came out the same year, but the screen was small. There was nothing the like the PSP at the time.

 

[ArtHands]

When it was revealed and priced, when the games were announced, right up to launch it was a very positive view.

Literally, the biggest complaint was memory card prices, but the system had so much going for it.... but it went from being positive to being really forgotten.

The biggest shame is that Sony make FANTASTIC portable systems and no one seems to care.

Those were really the hardcore vita fanboys who just made a lot of noises back then. In reality, most rational gamers were able to tell what was going to happen. Especially when sony starts showing logos like call of duty or bioshock, engine demo and demo for games that didnt get confirmed for the vita, like yakuza, monster hunter, metal gear solid 4 etc.

 

[Oregano]

TotA runs better than on PS2. XC3D can't judge since I didn't buy it, but it is a Wii game on 3DS, so I'm not sure why people think the NX handheld will be less powerful than 3DS somehow.

Tales of the Abyss only runs at 30fps in battles though, in every other aspect though it's superior. I think that capped framerate is entirely to do with 3D, very few games manage to do 60fps and 3D simultaneously.

 

[Arkam]

It was abandonned by Sony the first year. I mean, it had basically 5 minutes presence at E3 2012 SCEA conference iirc.

IN THE U.S. Where the mobile gaming fad had already taken a hold of the "masses"

Has been thriving in Japan where mobile gaming came later. Mobile gaming is now booming in the east just as it was in the west.

Dark times are upon us.

 

[FranXico]

The positive view came from hardcore gamers. The system was too overpriced to ever take off with the mainstream market. That's on top of the game library; Very few people are going to spend $300+ on a handheld that plays worse versions of games that they already have and/or play at home on their (big screen) TV.

Heck, many people don't have the time to actually play these experiences on the go anyway. Gaming on iOS has taken off because many of the popular games are easy to pick up and play in short 5-15 minute bursts and the games are cheap. Sony pushed/targeted the Vita in the opposite direction --- hence why the system sold poorly and was mainly bought by (very) hardcore gamers.

1000% agreed. As part of their target demographic, I love my Vita, but it is very clear that this is what happened.

 

[GhostTrick]

IN THE U.S. Where the mobile gaming fad had already taken a hold of the "masses"

Has been thriving in Japan where mobile gaming came later. Mobile gaming is now booming in the east just as it was in the west.

Dark times are upon us.

The problem in Japan is that I feel home consoles are declining faster than handhelds while in West, these are still solid.

 

[Karsha]

I think that the deal with VIta is far easier that people make it to be. 50-60$ games in an era that has 10$ full games for the iphone is a bit too much, and having no sort of piracy damaged the vita too( no one talks about it but its a very big deal in a lot of countries ) .
The "aaa" games aren't that important when it comes to handle IMHO (unless they are mario or pokemon) , PSP did well with mostly spin offs and things like that, Vita just felt overpriced in a marked that is full of free or cheap games

 

[Oregano]

IN THE U.S. Where the mobile gaming fad had already taken a hold of the "masses"

Has been thriving in Japan where mobile gaming came later. Mobile gaming is now booming in the east just as it was in the west.

Dark times are upon us.

That's really not true. Mobile gaming has always been big in Japan, it was just on feature phones and not smartphones.

The Vita has never really thrived either. It's merely got by.

 

[SeanR1221]

Expected.

Sony, please have remote play work on Apple devices if you're going to not make another portable. It would be really nice to remote play on my iPad.

 

[autoduelist]

So the door is still open for a Vita 1.5 that keeps the same OS (no split to user base) but has 1 to 1 controls for remote play and enough power to run PS2 Classics? Excellent.

 

[saichi]

The VITA was a victim of four things.

1. Rampant piracy at the end of the PSP/DS generation. The issue was not the piracy itself, but the ease of it, which had parents buying elementary school kids flash cards. This drove Western developers out of the handheld market completely

2. The disastrous PS3 launch. Sony ended up spending billions subsidizing the PS3 by more than the price of a Vita in order to even get the system competitive. Handheld development? Sony was desperate just to get multiplats onto the PS3 at a semi-stable frame-rate.

This did not mean that Sony did not support the Vita, but it meant that Sony could not save it if it ran into trouble, as they already were using those resources to save the PS3. It is no coincidence the market where Sony dumped the Vita most fully, the USA, is also where Microsoft was strongest.

3. The rise of mobile.

#3 was the backdrop, and perhaps the reason for no Vita 2, but the Vita was abandoned for reasons #1 and #2
.

what's #4?

 

[Producer]

So the door is still open for a Vita 1.5 that keeps the same OS (no split to user base) but has 1 to 1 controls for remote play and enough power to run PS2 Classics? Excellent.

Why do you think thats a possibility?

 

[James Scott]

So the door is still open for a Vita 1.5 that keeps the same OS (no split to user base) but has 1 to 1 controls for remote play and enough power to run PS2 Classics? Excellent.

Not sure why they'd invest R&D into a new vita with enough power to run PS2 classics. Vita sales are low enough as is, probably not worth the investment.

 

[CamHostage]

It's hilarious how Sony try and palm it off on just the "climate". Public interest in handhelds has gone down, nobody can deny it. But Nintendo saw that too, and did everything in their power to stem the tide.

Sony basically rolled over, tossed out a few ports and called it a day.

Sony does not have the toolbox that Nintendo does. Even in dark times, Nintendo can throw a Pokemon or Mario Kart at a system and expect millions of new customers to immediately and consistently show up; that does not happen with a Gran Turismo or Uncharted.

Again, I'm not arguing that (Memory Card Pricing} was THE reason. It just wasn't a net-positive, and it was a deterrent on some level, both to the mass market and to owners to invest greater in the PSN ecosystem. To what extent, again, cannot be quantified. I just disagree that it can be outright dismissed.

Perhaps. It's certainly GAF users' biggest reason for not buying, I'm constantly seeing threads about people who know countless other people who almost bought one and then looked at the Memory Card prices.

Personally, I believe it was pretty close to a non-factor for the vast majority of potential customers; they never even bothered to look at Vita Memory Card prices because they never took a good look at the Vita. Not the right software for them, not the right price for hardware or software, not something they felt they needed because they never touch their other portable game consoles, not a platform they needed when they had a brand new kick-ass PS4, not important to them when they've already got a cellphone that can play games that they don't play games on. If they even got as far as thinking of reasons why not, they had plenty of reasons (in their minds, at least; for me the platform fit my needs and expectations just fine) to turn away with just a glance.

Vita as a device is good enough for 7-10 years. too bad they stopped supporting it.

You mean as far as market opportunity or tech? Because as far as the hardware, Vita was unfortunately never going to be able to keep up with the insane explosion of mobile specs, even at launch it was running against some powerful devices (at 3X the price before subsidization) and then after that its only chance was to get the high-budget investment that mobile games rarely get (because nobody wants to try hard to sell a game for $0, and F2P doesn't demand you try hard, just that you play mean with the suckers.) Vita supposedly never went well with Unreal Engine 3 (I don't hear quite as much frustration from Unity, but then again, Unity developers aren't kicking all their games over like one would wish so something's in the way,) it didn't have the headroom to make it easy for PS3 ports (or spin-offs using familiar PS3 engines, although hot-damn did Killzone Mercenary make me want more,) and it's only going to fall further behind as it goes on. It's still strong and familiar to develop for, so PS4/Vita co-productions seem to be working out okay where the PS4 game is modestly produced, but it was always impossible to have beast-level hardware for a generation like PSP.

Personally, i also think that the answer that was given about the climate implies that they (Sony) dont think that they can do anything to really make such an investment worthwhile. If they truly believed in turning the tide, i'm sure that they would have made another attempt at it.

That's true. Better that they tell the truth than hem and haw and pretend that it's still a "very important market with a lot of opportunities for the future." Vita is what it is, Sony's not pretending they've got a plan C to bring it back.

Losing Monster Hunter hurt, but what hurt the most was stopping piracy. Piracy was no doubt the biggest reason they sold as many PSP systems they did, because it was a cinch to do.

If PSP was locked down, it wouldn't have done nearly as well as it did. So with Vita you have another Sony handheld, but one that lacks some of the bigger name exclusives PSP had, plus the ability to download them for free.

Oh, now that's interesting ... infamy is still fame, and fame breeds success. I agree with that assessment, as panic-inducing as the piracy problem was for PSP, it put PSP in people's minds that had never considered it before, much moreso than could be said for God of War GoS or Motorstorm AE or Dissidia or many of the awesome PSP games that never set fire to the sales charts.

 

[dragonyeuw]

Perhaps. It's certainly GAF users' biggest reason for not buying, I'm constantly seeing threads about people who know countless other people who almost bought one and then looked at the Memory Card prices.

Personally, I believe it was pretty close to a non-factor for the vast majority of potential customers; they never even bothered to look at Vita Memory Card prices because they never took a good look at the Vita. Not the right software for them, not the right price for hardware or software, not something they felt they needed because they never touch their other portable game consoles, not a platform they needed when they had a brand new kick-ass PS4, not important to them when they've already got a cellphone that can play games that they don't play games on. If they even got as far as thinking of reasons why not, they had plenty of reasons (in their minds, at least; for me the platform fit my needs and expectations just fine) to turn away with just a glance.

You'd think, if nothing else, the Vita would at least be known to the 80 million PSP install base. Somewhere between external market forces and internal strategies, 7/8 of that potential base decided the Vita wasn't for them. Despite my various postings regarding memory cards, I'm not arguing that they were a major factor, just one of the thousand cuts, some larger and deeper than others.

 

[autoduelist]

Why do you think thats a possibility?

Well, I don't think it's remotely likely. But Sony is first and foremost a gadget company, and they may want to keep some sort of foothold (however small) in the industry. There may be a market for a 'portable ps2' and/or a superb remote play device.

Again, I don't think it's remotely likely. But I'd love it to be true. Many of us are deeply invested in the Sony ecosystem, like handhelds, and so don't really have an exit strategy. I won't be buying Nintendo's next device. This would be a relatively cheap way for Sony to use (mostly) existing Vita tech to extend it's lifetime and remain in the handheld sector. I just don't think it's going to happen.

 

[charlequin]

I don't buy it. Memory card prices are a thorn in the side of everyone when the device needs one to work, as the Vita did.

99% of customers don't need a ton of space, they just need enough to get the system to work. A 4GB card was twenty bucks and after a certain point the system was packaged with 8GB -- plenty for the mass market.

The unfortunate reality is that we'll never really know one way or the other how much impact the memory card prices had.

No, it's really not a mystery. We have all the information we need to know that the memory pricing, while irritating, was not a significant factor in the system's overall performance. In a certain sense, price barriers are far and away the easiest ones to overcome -- if a product is highly desirable in every other way and the sole barrier to adoption is price, then dropping that price will drive adoption. The Vita, however, was not in demand and no pricing strategy was going to change that.

Disagree, that it's the first party that was missing.

It's just not really relevant. Most of Sony's first-party development is oriented towards filling gaps and creating diversity for existing customers, making sure that people who already feel like a Sony system is worth purchasing stay happy. They have, if we are generous, exactly two franchises that are successful enough to be real system sellers: Gran Turismo and The Last of Us -- both heavily experiential, visually spectacular titles that translate poorly to portable format. Nothing their teams could create was going to be sufficient on its own to drive interest.

Similarly, it doesn't really matter that the specific COD release on Vita was lousy. People buy COD to play long sessions online. The Vita is an entirely unsuitable platform for the primary factor people care about in this game; no matter how well-crafted a release for this system was it wouldn't move the needle on the system's performance.

 

[dragonyeuw]

No, it's really not a mystery. We have all the information we need to know that the memory pricing, while irritating, was not a significant factor in the system's overall performance. In a certain sense, price barriers are far and away the easiest ones to overcome -- if a product is highly desirable in every other way and the sole barrier to adoption is price, then dropping that price will drive adoption. The Vita, however, was not in demand and no pricing strategy was going to change that.

Really? I'd be interested to see this information, as well as the source for 99% of customers not needing a ton of space. Those who load up their tablets and phones with pictures,apps, video and music, the Vita's 4/8/16gb offerings are hilariously inadequate.

It's easy enough to say no pricing strategy would work( to clarify, work meaning selling at a respectable rate to justify its existence, not gangbuster sales) since we're long past the point of proving that one way or the other.

 

[CamHostage]

You'd think, if nothing else, the Vita would at least be known to the 80 million PSP install base. Somewhere between external market forces and internal strategies, 7/8 of that potential base decided the Vita wasn't for them. Despite my various postings regarding memory cards, I'm not arguing that they were a major factor, just one of the thousand cuts, some larger and deeper than others.

Talking about "install base" is a misconception of how portable game platform consumers work. A handheld isn't like a console, sitting at the center of your entertainment system, demanding to be fed new games. A handheld sits in your backpack or closet, and when a new game comes along or something catches people's eye on a shelf, they remember that they have a system to play it on. Install bases turn in fractions for the attach rate, but luckily in the past the prices of handhelds have been so low and the core games (the Marios, the Karts, the Tetrises, the Monster Hunters, the FF ports) have been big enough to be the constant reminders that sustain momentum on a good number of those handhelds floating out there. This generation is a different challenge, and Sony didn't have to tools to meet that challenge with Vita.

Also, that 7/8s of PSP customers have other things to do now. Back when PSP was a thing, kids were hungry enough for video on the go that UMD Video was a successful business (imagine that!) People used their PSPs to download and play podcasts because it was more convenient than an overpriced Apple device or a shame-bringing Zune. They hacked the system because they were dying to play NES games without a keyboard. And they were 14 or 17 and were spending a lot of time on a bus with homework to avoid doing. By the time Vita rolled around, those 7/8s of people all had devices in their pockets that solved all those problems and more. They weren't looking for a new portable, and Sony didn't have enough in the library or the hardware/software pricing (which perhaps eventually included Memory Cards) to make them look. It's hard enough getting them to look at 3DS, and every human on the planet still feels a pavlovian need for owning a Mario Kart to play on the toilet...