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[Griss]

Before further discussion, what do you exactly mean when you say "heavily MK8 based"



Hypothetically speaking, we have the next 3D Mario, Zelda U, Pikmin 4 and possibly Retro's new game for the first year. Why waste their big guns all at once?
Releasing a brand new Mario Kart game the second (or even third year) of the console's lifespan would keep the momentum going for the rest of the gen with DLC support, just like MK8.

As in, based on its engine. No need to develop a new renderer or shaders etc. No need for testing new handling or items. The core game mechanics and its technology lifted out entirely, just like Ocarina of Time -> Majora's Mask. Similar to making a stand-alone expansion pack.

It's really not complicated.

As for the bolded, if that's Nintendo's attitude then they're simply fucked. They need to hit like a meteorite at launch. Nothing else will do. Pikmin 4 will not shift consoles to the mass market at launch.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

If they share most of the same games, it will be enough. No use in cutting off half of Nintendo's potential profits. And this way, there won't be any software droughts.

They will be cutting profit either way.. I think if they made 1 device that can be 2 devices is the way to go. Not a hybrid but not two separate devices either. Doing the 2 devices one is going to cut profits into another. Especially if they have a shared library.

 

[Roo]

What evidence do we have that suggests that both devices will have a shared library?

I'm paraphrasing here but Iwata mentioned they've been struggling to sopport their console due to development times, resources, etc leading to massive droughts for both ends.
They're trying to fix that by using a common architecture, os, etc on their new hardware so assets and such can be scalable between devices hence people are assuming both games will have the same library

 

[Dr. Buni]

Hypothetically speaking, we have the next 3D Mario, Zelda U, Pikmin 4 and possibly Retro's new game for the first year. Why waste their big guns all at once?
Releasing a brand new Mario Kart game the second (or even third year) of the console's lifespan would keep the momentum going for the rest of the gen with DLC support, just like MK8.

Yes, I agree with you. My point is that if the library is shared, the "release pattern" of Mario Kart games might be broken.

 

[sörine]

I'm paraphrasing here but Iwata mentioned they've been struggling to sopport their console due to development times, resources, etc leading to massive droughts for both ends.
They're trying to fix that by using a common architecture, os, etc on their new hardware so assets and such can be scalable between devices hence people are assuming both games will have the same library

Iwata likening the approach to iOS and Android specifically also reinforces that. You can still have device exclusive games, but most should probably run on multiple devices and some can be scaled accordingly by device too.

 

[Pokemaniac]

I'm paraphrasing here but Iwata mentioned they've been struggling to sopport their console due to development times, resources, etc leading to massive droughts for both ends.
They're trying to fix that by using a common architecture, os, etc on their new hardware so assets and such can be scalable between devices hence people are assuming both games will have the same library

Plus they mentioned that they are trying to transition from a hardware based relationship with customers to an account based one.

Also this:

To cite a specific case, Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms. Apple has a common platform called iOS. Another example is Android. Though there are various models, Android does not face software shortages because there is one common way of programming on the Android platform that works with various models. The point is, Nintendo platforms should be like those two examples.

 

[BY2K]

How are you guys talking about the NX almost non-stop with basically no concrete information about the system outside of its codename?

Geez.

 

[Gsnap]

As in, based on it's engine. No need to develop a new renderer or shaders etc. No need for testing new handling. The core game mechanics and its technology lifted out entirely, just like Ocarina of Time -> Majora's Mask. Similar to making a stand-alone expansion pack.

It's really not complicated.

As for the bolded, if that's Nintendo's attitude then they're simply fucked. They need to hit like a meteorite at launch. Nothing else will do. Pikmin 4 will not shift consoles to the mass market at launch.

Yeah, but that meteorite doesn't have to include Mario Kart, and it certainly doesn't need to include every major game ever, leaving the next 2-3 years devoid of major titles. Assuming Zelda U gets TP'd, then Zelda U, 3D Mario, and some 3rd thing will be a great launch of major titles, with some minor titles to fill it out, and hopefully a huge VC library. Then Around Feb or so next year they put out another major title, and then continue supporting the system(s) with major titles and DLC for past titles for the rest of the consoles life. That's all they can do, really, outside of catching lightning in a bottle again, or actually managing to get major 3rd party support. A good launch and a good followup is far more important than just a good launch.

How are you guys talking about the NX almost non-stop with basically no concrete information about the system outside of its codename?

Geez.

It's fun. And minor things tend to pop up pretty frequently enough to keep the conversation going. Just today there was the spike chunsoft stuff. Last week there was the restructuring of their store displays. Pretty easy to inspire speculation and theories with all that.

But mainly it's fun.

 

[L Thammy]

I am sure they have grand plans for launch games.

I am sure those grand plans will be derailed when those games aren't ready for launch.

I feel like the initial launch plans for the Wii U were flubbed because Nintendo didn't have a firm idea of what the console was. Drastic changes at the last minute. I've read some stuff to support this, but not strongly enough for me to be totally certain about it.

If Nintendo launches yet another system the same way, delayed launch software will not be their greatest their problem.

 

[Griss]

How are you guys talking about the NX almost non-stop with basically no concrete information about the system outside of its codename?

Geez.

Because

a) Tons of new people come to the discussion all the time and need to get caught up about the hints and quotes referencing the machine, which leads to posts, and
b) As Nintendo fans it's fun to speculate. It's just fun to chat shit and predict stuff and rehash arguments. It's what a discussion forum is for.

Yeah, but that meteorite doesn't have to include Mario Kart, and it certainly doesn't need to include every major game ever, leaving the next 2-3 years devoid of major titles. Assuming Zelda U gets TP'd, then Zelda U, 3D Mario, and some 3rd thing will be a great launch of major titles, with some minor titles to fill it out, and hopefully a huge VC library. Then Around Feb or so next year they put out another major title, and then continue supporting the system(s) with major titles and DLC for past titles for the rest of the consoles life. That's all they can do, really, outside of catching lightning in a bottle again, or actually managing to get major 3rd party support. A good launch and a good followup is far more important than just a good launch.

The bolded is where we disagree unless they have Pokémon to replace it. A strong launch followed by droughts is vastly preferable to a weak launch followed by decent games arriving every so often after a year. The second situation leads to a Wii U scenario. Your 'Zelda + 3D Mario + Retro game' idea is just more selling to Nintendo's hardcore fans. While they need to get those people on board, overall it's not what they need at all, imo.

I'd go with 'Sports game + Mario Kart + Pokemon' with the likes of Zelda and Pikmin coming out later in order to sell to the base you've already established but we all know none of that's going to happen.

 

[Mpl90]

Yes, I agree with you. My point is that if the library is shared, the "release pattern" of Mario Kart games might be broken.

Yeah, this is an important factor to consider for all major Nintendo games if the family of devices is real and executed as we expect. We would see titles like Mario main, Zelda, Smash, Mario Kart and the others be released and get sequels after a longer time than what we usually see between handhelds and home consoles.

Example: Mario Kart 7 released in December 2011, while MK8 in May 2014. That's about 2.5 years between the two games. Now, if there's no need to develop a Mario Kart game for two different devices, two different versions / episodes, we could see that period between releases increasing to 3.5-4 years.

That would let developers who would be usually busy working on the next MK game more available to work on other titles, especially new IPs. Also, as this gen showed, the longevity of the single MK game (again, an example for what I'm trying to say) would receive a substantial help from expansions featuring lots of quality content.

 

[L Thammy]

How are you guys talking about the NX almost non-stop with basically no concrete information about the system outside of its codename?

Geez.

I don't know about the rest of these bums, but I'm a gigantic nerd. That's why.

 

[-Horizon-]

How are you guys talking about the NX almost non-stop with basically no concrete information about the system outside of its codename?

Geez.

I can't wait to see everyone's faces when its revealed to be a toaster oven.

 

[Ganondolf]

What evidence do we have that suggests that both devices will have a shared library?

none. we are only assuming. the only thing that has been said is that they will use the same (or almost the same) dev code and will be like brother systems like iPhone and ipad.

we assume that their will be one OS with two sku (handheld and console, slight changes to make fit). with regards to games they could use a shared library or have separate games for each made with the same dev code (and probably engines).

sadly Nintendo hardware info is hard to come by and Nintendo don't always s make the logical choice.

 

[deltatheta]

Iwata likening the approach to iOS and Android specifically also reinforces that. You can still have device exclusive games, but most should probably run on multiple devices and some can be scaled accordingly by device too.

Yeah, I think a lot of people gloss over this fact. The most straightforward interpretation of what Iwata said is that NX games will run on all NX devices, and there will be multiple devices sold in different form factors.

You can make tortured interpretations to come to different conclusions, but it's tough to do that without having to assume a massive translation error or that Iwata was being deliberately misleading.

Of course, their plans might have changed in the meantime, especially and sadly with Iwata not being there anymore.

The interesting questions for me at this point is Wii U backwards compatibility, what will happen with physical media, and what cross buy is going to be like. I think they developed the Wii U SDK with cross compilation to NX in mind, so they'll be able to re-release the big Wii U games as launch titles and recover some of the investment, because most of their audience hasn't played them yet. Physical media will probably be compatible across all NX devices. Cross buy of digital games is hard to predict with Nintendo.

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

I'm paraphrasing here but Iwata mentioned they've been struggling to sopport their console due to development times, resources, etc leading to massive droughts for both ends.
They're trying to fix that by using a common architecture, os, etc on their new hardware so assets and such can be scalable between devices hence people are assuming both games will have the same library

Ah, that's what I thought. To me, that doesn't really sound like both devices will share games. It sounds exactly like what he said. Games will be able to share assets more easily. I don't really see it as one Mario Kart game being playable on both devices. It would just be much easier to develop both games because Nintendo doesn't have to start from scratch when they start making the console version. I'm really not tech-savvy so I may be talking about my ass, but I feel that it's a bit premature to start assuming one game can be playable on both devices (excluding those already built for cross-buy as we've seen from some indies). It's rather pointless to me to start making assumptions such as "oh this game can't look that great on NX console because they have to scale it down for NX handheld" or "Pokemon will be an exception and will not be playable on the console."

Even the whole iOS and Android comparison could be describing the relationship between NX handheld and future handhelds and NX console and future consoles. I just feel that some of us think we know more about NX than we actually do.

Fake edit: Basically what BY2K said.

 

[10k]

How are you guys talking about the NX almost non-stop with basically no concrete information about the system outside of its codename?

Geez.

Mostly because of Neoxon.

And you can bet Zelda U will launch as an NX launch title.

 

[Dr. Buni]

Ah, that's what I thought. To me, that doesn't really sound like both devices will share games. It sounds exactly like what he said. Games will be able to share assets more easily. I don't really see it as one Mario Kart game being playable on both devices. It would just be much easier to develop both games because Nintendo doesn't have to start from scratch when they start making the console version. I'm really not tech-savvy so I may be talking about my ass, but I feel that it's a bit premature to start assuming one game can be playable on both devices (excluding those already built for cross-buy as we've seen from some indies). It's rather pointless to me to start making assumptions such as "oh this game can't look that great on NX console because they have to scale it down for NX handheld" or "Pokemon will be an exception and will not be playable on the console."

Even the whole iOS and Android comparison could be describing the relationship between NX handheld and future handhelds and NX console and future consoles. I just feel that some of us think we know more about NX than we actually do.

Fake edit: Basically what BY2K said.

You could have just said you don't want the systems to share the library. lol

Also, as this gen showed, the longevity of the single MK game (again, an example for what I'm trying to say) would receive a substantial help from expansions featuring lots of quality content.

Indeed. After the fantastic DLC support Mario Kart 8 got, I hope they do the same with the next entry and release extra content down the road.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Mostly because of Neoxon.

And you can bet Zelda U will launch as an NX launch title.

This is true. I honestly think some of yall or us done speculated so much to knowing what it is and pushing that agenda as to what it is. That when it is shown people gon be flustered or and confused why its not whats speculated.

 

[deltatheta]

I don't really see it as one Mario Kart game being playable on both devices. It would just be much easier to develop both games because Nintendo doesn't have to start from scratch when they start making the console version. I'm really not tech-savvy so I may be talking about my ass, but I feel that it's a bit premature to start assuming one game can be playable on both devices (excluding those already built for cross-buy as we've seen from some indies).

Yeah, I'm getting my interpretation from how iOS and Android work. Every iOS device will run literally the same binary image of an app (with certain caveats not relevant for this discussion).

While I think it's not impossible to interpret Iwata's comments as being about mere asset sharing and not running the same games, like I said in a post above, you would almost have to assume he was being deliberately misleading.

 

[Gsnap]

The bolded is where we disagree unless they have Pokémon to replace it. A strong launch followed by droughts is vastly preferable to a weak launch followed by decent games arriving every so often after a year. The second situation leads to a Wii U scenario. Your 'Zelda + 3D Mario + Retro game' idea is just more selling to Nintendo's hardcore fans. While they need to get those people on board, overall it's not what they need at all, imo.

I'd go with 'Sports game + Mario Kart + Pokemon' with the likes of Zelda and Pikmin coming out later in order to sell to the base you've already established but we all know none of that's going to happen.

Sure, but that's not what I suggested. I suggested a strong launch followed by another big game after about 2-3 months and then continued support throughout the year. AKA, a strong launch and then a strong year. You suggested a stronger launch followed by nothing. Sounds like a bad idea to me. (also I never said retro. Just some 3rd game, could be anything as long as it's good)

And honestly, I don't think it's important exactly which games are at launch as long as there's a decent number and the selection is made of games a good number of people care about. Obviously if we get Nintendoland 2 and NSMBNX at launch, then that's bad. But getting Mario Kart and Pokemon at launch is not significantly better or worse than getting 3D Mario and Zelda at launch. Especially if the games follow quickly, making the launch year a year without droughts.

 

[10k]

This is true. I honestly think some of yall or us done speculated so much to knowing what it is and pushing that agenda as to what it is. That when it is shown people gon be flustered or and confused why its not whats speculated.

So basically how we all were when the Wii U was announced?

 

[Roo]

As in, based on its engine. No need to develop a new renderer or shaders etc. No need for testing new handling or items. The core game mechanics and its technology lifted out entirely, just like Ocarina of Time -> Majora's Mask. Similar to making a stand-alone expansion pack.

It's really not complicated.

As for the bolded, if that's Nintendo's attitude then they're simply fucked. They need to hit like a meteorite at launch. Nothing else will do. Pikmin 4 will not shift consoles to the mass market at launch.

Ok, got it.
The engine used for MK8 and most of EAD's game is the same. Few changes here and there. Actually, I remember reading they've been using a tweaked, more refined version of the Super Mario 64 one and they'll likely will keep using it for future consoles.

Handling and items always testing always will be part of the development time. I don't think it's as simple as copy/paste stuff. If they can, great. Kudos to them, less work but I don't think it's that easy

Also, you're missing entirely my point.
You can have Mario Kart 8/9, 3D Mario, Zelda, Smash etc at launch and sell 10 million units the first year but then you have the massive sales drop afterwards. What will keep that momentum? Pikmin 4? Metroid? Mario Party 11? Game and Wario? you see where I'm going with this?
Even if they're not big sellers, less popular games are neccesary to keep the console going between big hitters. That's why they're spread throughout the entire gen.

You can have the most successful launch ever but releasing their biggest IP's all at once in such a small time frame is so short-sighted it's not funny.

That's why I brought up those titles.
Zelda U, 3D Mario and whatever Retro is working on (which I'm sure will be an important IP) are already huge to cover launch. Then you have Pikmin 4 and other less popular (niche) games to fill the gaps.

Yes, I agree with you. My point is that if the library is shared, the "release pattern" of Mario Kart games might be broken.

That's why it'd make more sense to release it right in the middle of the gen instead of launch.

 

[James Scott]

This is true. I honestly think some of yall or us done speculated so much to knowing what it is and pushing that agenda as to what it is. That when it is shown people gon be flustered or and confused why its not whats speculated.

All I've speculated on is what Iwata has said. Unless he lied it should be pretty close to what we guess. Whether they decide to do the shared library or if the similarities are only for sharing assets which should still lead to faster development.

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

You could have just said you don't want the systems to share the library. lol

Where did I say that?

 

[M1ch04c4n0]

How are you guys talking about the NX almost non-stop with basically no concrete information about the system outside of its codename?

Geez.

They want to possibility of the gamepad to ever catching up phase-out as soon a possible. If Nintendo announces that the next console is using a similar control, they will announce the platform failure and start talking about the SUCCESSOR of the 'NX'.

As the Wii demonstrated it before, 'core' gamers are afraid of change and terrified of learning or developing new skills.

 

[Gsnap]

I actually do like that Iwata specifically said shared assets. Simply because that can mean we can get both cross-platform games and platform specific games while still cutting down on development time and expense, hopefully leading to more unique games overall. Think about it. OoT and Majora's Mask are almost as different as 2 zelda games could be, but they shared assets and MM only took a year or so to develop.

Now obviously, I'm not saying that I want every game to reuse NPCs and everything. Just that having the ability to fill in droughts by creating games along the same lines as Majora's Mask or Captain Toad, and then being able to scale those to fit whichever piece of hardware they want to put it on, is possibly more enticing to me than just having a 100% shared library.

But then again, that does bring up the question of, "If you can just do that, then why not just still release those games on both platforms anyway." Well, I don't know. It's just something I hope happens.

 

[AniHawk]

MH5 is probably coming to the NX Handheld, & hopefully the NX Console by extension. And keep in mind that Nintendo helps with localizing the Monster Hunter games (as well as advertising them) in exchange for the mainline games staying on Nintendo platforms.

I think that's a bold prediction considering hunting games haven't really fared well on either of those platforms as of yet. EDIT: Not to say I completely disagree but I think they'd test the ground with something else first.

I was more referring to Monster Hunter X or Monster Hunter Stories. An upport of MHX would probably help in the west.

it's possible that nintendo may work with capcom to keep the franchise exclusive to nintendo platforms, but i think if they don't, capcom will port the thing to ps4 because nx and ps4 will be close enough that it should be easy to do. one of the major problems with mh3 or mh4 appearing on anything more powerful than the wii was the amount of work that would need to go into the game. capcom basically has no choice, other than releasing it for mobile only.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

but I feel that it's a bit premature to start assuming one game can be playable on both devices (excluding those already built for cross-buy as we've seen from some indies). It's rather pointless to me to start making assumptions such as "oh this game can't look that great on NX console because they have to scale it down for NX handheld" or "Pokemon will be an exception and will not be playable on the console".

I'd better bring up the old Miyamoto quote from last year, as I'm very confident that a shared library is the goal, not necessarily shared assets.

What I can say is, certainly, within Nintendo the fact that our development environment for our home console is different from the development environment for our portable system is certainly an area of stress or challenge for the development teams. So as we move forward, we're going to look at what we can do to unify the two development environments.

So, particularly with digital downloads now and the idea that you're downloading the right to play a game, that opens up the ability to have multiple platform digital downloads where you can download on one and download on another. Certainly from a development standpoint there is some challenge to it, because if you have two devices that have different specs and you're being told to design in a way that the game runs on both devices, then that can be challenging for the developer—but if you have a more unified development environment and you're able to make one game that runs on both systems instead of having to make a game for each system, that's an area of opportunity for us.

That aside, it's fairly clear that's the way things are going. Nintendo has seen that the 3DS cannibalised the Wii U.

Why commission two games in the same IP/series when the benefits just aren't reaching the audience or selling the platform? To the unconverted walking into the store, they'll see the same brand names (e.g. Yoshi's New Island next to Yoshi's Woolly World) and think that the 3DS offers next to the same thing, at a lower price. Wii U's original selling point (asymmetric local multiplayer) has been dropped, too.

If Nintendo makes it low cost enough to make it easy to target several platforms at once, "cross-buy" can be a thing for all games, not just lower budget indie titles. Porting a game from PS4 to Vita or vice versa is currently an expensive process, and on top of that these titles don't offer the synergies they should because Sony hasn't made it easy for developers to focus on that kind of thing given the effort of porting in the first place. Furthermore, the OSes for both are wildly different and don't even offer the same featureset or online interoperability.

And as we've seen mentioned before, it doesn't mean that every game will be on both systems. Pokemon will almost certainly be kept to handheld, and an ambitious open world Zelda may only be on the console if that's the only way to provide a good user experience. 2D Zelda could well be on both.

Shared assets are already a thing with Pokémon (Game Freak specifically made very high quality models for Pokémon XY so they don't have to put that amount of work in again) and while I'm sure they will be used, the idea of having shared assets does not fit in with what Iwata said he wanted to move away with, with NX, compared with a shared library, something that is enabled by NX.

Iwata's use of software assets could mean anything really, I think he's referring more to engines and libraries (for example, if Nintendo build a virtual console for DS on NX, they wouldn't have to do that work twice for every NX system) rather than in-game assets.

 

[Roo]

I actually do like that Iwata specifically said shared assets. Simply because that can mean we can get both cross-platform games and platform specific games while still cutting down on development time and expense, hopefully leading to more unique games overall. Think about it. OoT and Majora's Mask are almost as different as 2 zelda games could be, but they shared assets and MM only took a year or so to develop.

Now obviously, I'm not saying that I want every game to reuse NPCs and everything. Just that having the ability to fill in droughts by creating games along the same lines as Majora's Mask or Captain Toad, and then being able to scale those to fit whichever piece of hardware they want to put it on, is possibly more enticing to me than just having a 100% shared library.

But then again, that does bring up the question of, "If you can just do that, then why not just still release those games on both platforms anyway." Well, I don't know. It's just something I hope happens.

Not only more unique games but also longer.
Since their schedule won't be too tight (due to not having to support two consoles) that means whatever project they're working on can have more content.

Using Mario Kart again as an example.
Usually, we get 32 tracks with every game. Since they don't have to work on two separate Mario Kart games now, they could add let's say.. 2 more cups (40 standard tracks) and then, if they want to, they can use the same DLC plan for MK8 and release 4 more cups a year after launch (56 tracks total)

 

[E-phonk]

Yeah, this is an important factor to consider for all major Nintendo games if the family of devices is real and executed as we expect. We would see titles like Mario main, Zelda, Smash, Mario Kart and the others be released and get sequels after a longer time than what we usually see between handhelds and home consoles.

I feel that, like you mentioned, the way Nintendo has used DLC could help here. It would make older titles fresh again, AND it might help them expand these titles to areas they wouldn't experiment with normally.

You can have Mario Kart 8/9, 3D Mario, Zelda, Smash etc at launch and sell 10 million units the first year but then you have the massive sales drop afterwards. What will keep that momentum? Pikmin 4? Metroid? Mario Party 11? Game and Wario? you see where I'm going with this?
Even if they're not big sellers, less popular games are neccesary to keep the console going between big hitters. That's why they're spread throughout the entire gen.

Imo you should always release with a new IP, so I hope they have something ready.

But you seem to mention primarily the console games. There are a lot of traditional handheld games that also sell well and have their unique audiences. In a shared platform would count just as much. Tomodachi Life, Animal Crossing, Splatoon, Pokemon (hey, you never know), Luigi's Mansion, Paper Mario, Fire Emblem, ... All million sellers. With one of those game every three months you can fill the first 3 years, add the "minor" games in between and you have yourself quite a line-up imo, especially if capcom/level5/bandai/square are on board with at least 2 releases a year.

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

I'd better bring up the old Miyamoto quote from last year, as I'm very confident that a shared library is the goal, not necessarily shared assets.



That aside, it's fairly clear that's the way things are going. Nintendo has seen that the 3DS cannibalised the Wii U.

Why commission two games in the same IP/series when the benefits just aren't reaching the audience or selling the platform? To the unconverted walking into the store, they'll see the same brand names (e.g. Yoshi's New Island next to Yoshi's Woolly World) and think that the 3DS offers next to the same thing, at a lower price. Wii U's original selling point (asymmetric local multiplayer) has been dropped, too.

If Nintendo makes it low cost enough to make it easy to target several platforms at once, "cross-buy" can be a thing for all games, not just lower budget indie titles. Porting a game from PS4 to Vita or vice versa is currently an expensive process, which is why those titles don't offer the synergies they should (furthermore, the OSes for both are wildly different and don't even offer the same featureset or online interoperability).

And as we've seen mentioned before, it doesn't mean that every game will be on both systems. Pokemon will almost certainly be kept to handheld, and an ambitious open world Zelda may only be on the console if that's the only way to provide a good user experience. 2D Zelda could well be on both.

Shared assets are already a thing with Pokémon (Game Freak specifically made very high quality models for Pokémon XY so they don't have to put that amount of work in again) and while I'm sure they will be used, the idea of having shared assets does not fit in with what Iwata said he wanted to move away with, with NX, compared with a shared library, something that is enabled by NX.

Thanks for the detailed response. Do I understand you correctly when I say you think that all games will be playable on both devices?

 

[Toadthemushroom]

Thanks for the detailed response. Do I understand you correctly when I say you think that all games will be playable on both devices?

I don't, sorry I didn't make that clear!

I think the majority of games will, but Nintendo (and hopefully other publishers) know what a good user experience is, so some games might not be a good fit for both maybe for creative or financial reasons.

For example, they'll keep Pokemon RPGs to an NX handheld, and a 3D open world Zelda to an NX console for all the reasons you can think of. If Picross 3D 2 was on an NX machine it wouldn't be the console, for example. Same with StreetPass stuff if that makes it over (though I suspect they'll offer a version of StreetPass which connects to your NNID friends on the console).

It's a bit like how you see some developers only target iPad as a conscious choice -- XCOM, Pokémon Trading Card Game, Frozen Synapse and SteamWorld Heist launched (or will launch) as iPad-only games. I think XCOM got released on iPhone eventually, but it's a terrible experience on a small touchscreen.

 

[atbigelow]

Thanks for the detailed response. Do I understand you correctly when I say you think that all games will be playable on both devices?

I don't think 100% of the library will be cross-compatible. I could see a very high amount of games doing it, though. Maybe something like 90%. Indie games will eat it up, for sure. Don't expect hardware-pushing AAA titles to always be compatible. I wouldn't imagine something like Arkham Knight being cross-compatible.

You'll also have to take into account the strengths of the hardware. If those wheel triggers are in fact for the NX home controllers, I doubt they would be on the handheld. You'd have to design around them being both present and not present.

 

[Gsnap]

But you seem to mention primarily the console games. There are a lot of traditional handheld games that also sell well and have their unique audiences. In a shared platform would count just as much. Tomodachi Life, Animal Crossing, Splatoon, Pokemon (hey, you never know), Luigi's Mansion, Paper Mario, Fire Emblem, ... All million sellers. With one of those game every three months you can fill the first 3 years, add the "minor" games in between and you have yourself quite a line-up imo, especially if capcom/level5/bandai/square are on board with at least 2 releases a year.

Exactly. This is the important part. People always complain about the rate of Nintendo's output (and rightly so, considering the situation), but the fact of the matter is Nintendo as a developer makes a ton of games, certainly enough to sustain 1 system, especially with the minor third party support they do get. The problem is sustaining 2 systems. They can't do it.

I don't think every single game will be made to work on both systems, but I do think the launch/first year of both systems will be pretty robust when we consider just how many games could possibly be there. I don't think anyone would be upset to see a Luigi's mansion or Animal Crossing at the home console's launch/first year as long as the normally "hardcore" console games are there as well.

Lack of 3rd party (specifically western) support is probably long gone, but the lack of games may be coming to an end.

 

[KingBroly]

I don't think 100% of the library will be cross-compatible. I could see a very high amount of games doing it, though. Maybe something like 90%. Indie games will eat it up, for sure. Don't expect hardware-pushing AAA titles to always be compatible. I wouldn't imagine something like Arkham Knight being cross-compatible.

You'll also have to take into account the strengths of the hardware. If those wheel triggers are in fact for the NX home controllers, I doubt they would be on the handheld. You'd have to design around them being both present and not present.

I think Japanese publishers will eat it up as well. NX, assuming it's an IOS-like platform for console and portable gaming, is a way for Japanese pubs to have their cake and eat it too, so to speak.

 

[James Scott]

Although I'm not incredibly fond of the thought of MK9 or a lot of NX titles being held back by the portable NX, the thought of the development time/resources that would need to be put into two different versions being put towards even more games is exciting. The Animal Crossing team not making a Wii U AC likely lead to Splatoon. If we could've gotten New Leaf on both systems and Splatoon with this system that would be great.

it's possible that nintendo may work with capcom to keep the franchise exclusive to nintendo platforms, but i think if they don't, capcom will port the thing to ps4 because nx and ps4 will be close enough that it should be easy to do. one of the major problems with mh3 or mh4 appearing on anything more powerful than the wii was the amount of work that would need to go into the game. capcom basically has no choice, other than releasing it for mobile only.

MH on 3DS did very well for them and they're still building the audience (or at least maintaining it) on the 3DS with Stories and X.
I think it would be very smart for Capcom to go with NX portable and then up port to NX console in a MH3U situation where they can play together.
Surprised Nintendo didn't convince them to do MH4.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

What would be the point of 2 systems but only some games can be played on both?? Thats a seperation right there. They need to have all the games the same.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

The system being there for the long term and constantly evolving seems like a good draw too, and I suspect it's why even Spike Chunsoft are considering it when they completely (to my knowledge) passed on Wii U.

Nintendo must have done something to please publishers and there has to have been big internal change in the company to make it all happen (as evidenced from a big reorganisation), I really can't wait to find out how this all falls into place.

 

[Oregano]

I think Japanese publishers will eat it up as well. NX, assuming it's an IOS-like platform for console and portable gaming, is a way for Japanese pubs to have their cake and eat it too, so to speak.

Japanese Publishers are too busy trying to prop up the PS4 in Japan.

 

[atbigelow]

What would be the point of 2 systems but only some games can be played on both?? Thats a seperation right there. They need to have all the games the same.

There are going to be processing power differences. You can't expect to see GTA5 on the portable NX. The processing ceiling will be much higher on the console than the handheld. People already bemoan Nintendo for cutting Ice Climbers from Smash Wii U because of the 3DS. Now imagine that on a more prolific scale.

 

[James Scott]

What would be the point of 2 systems but only some games can be played on both?? Thats a seperation right there. They need to have all the games the same.

Instead of making one game and having it sell to one audience, they can make one game sell to their entire fan bases while still doing what they normally do.
3DS ate into the Wii U's lunch and vice verse, I can see them trying to make a lot of titles like the Wii U's platformers work on both while new console Zelda/Xenoblade 3 would be just on the console.
Though I could see this as detrimental to the portable system by having less exclusives it should still result in more games.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

Japanese Publishers are too busy trying to prop up the PS4 in Japan.

Other than Square Enix, I don't really see a big push for PS4 software from Japanese publishers. Most of it has come from Sony incentivising smaller publishers to either go PS4 only (NIS and Disgaea 5) or to bring traditionally handheld-only franchises (like Summon Knight and Danganronpa) cross platform.

I wouldn't say making a PS4 version of games which would usually be on the Vita takes up enough resources to divert them away from other platform holders. Think of it as Sony transitioning away from Vita, ever so slowly, like they would have done if Vita had a successor.

Also consider that Nintendo's biggest partners this generation (Capcom, Level-5, Atlus) seem to be working on games they can't really announce yet because of the NX.

 

[Gsnap]

What would be the point of 2 systems but only some games can be played on both?? Thats a seperation right there. They need to have all the games the same.

The point is for developers to be able to make the choice between one or the other or both as they see fit without any issues.

 

[KingBroly]

Japanese Publishers are too busy trying to prop up the PS4 in Japan.

I really haven't seen any indication that it's going to work out the way Sony wants it too. What NX provides, presumably, is a way for those games to developed at a Console level and downscaled to a portable with minimal effort or vice-versa for maximizing sales potential depending on the region and genre.

 

[James Scott]

I really haven't seen any indication that it's going to work out the way Sony wants it too. What NX provides, presumably, is a way for those games to developed at a Console level and downscaled to a portable with minimal effort or vice-versa for maximizing sales potential depending on the region and genre.

Some games might work better in Japan on portables but they might work better on consoles or having a bigger audience on consoles in the west.
Like Monster Hunter where local multiplayer is key to making the portable version desirable but in the west local multiplayer isn't as common on portables so fans there would likely prefer better controls and online play.

 

[Lupin the Third]

What would be the point of 2 systems but only some games can be played on both?? Thats a seperation right there. They need to have all the games the same.

This exact same situation happens on iPad and iPhone too. Some devices are better suited to some things than others.

 

[Neoxon]

What would be the point of 2 systems but only some games can be played on both?? Thats a seperation right there. They need to have all the games the same.

The point is that most games can be played on both with a select few exceptions. As for the scrolling shoulder buttons, they seem doable on the NX Handheld.

 

[Pokemaniac]

What would be the point of 2 systems but only some games can be played on both?? Thats a seperation right there. They need to have all the games the same.

It wouldn't really be just some games can be played on both. It will probably actually end up being most game are playable on both.

Forcing 100% of the library to be shared doesn't really make sense. Even disregarding the difference in power, there are some games that simply don't work on handhelds. At least not without becoming very different games. Stuff like Wii Fit, Rock Band, or a wide variety of things built around motion controls. Not allowing those games to be made just because they wouldn't work on the handheld is is pointlessly limiting.

If we bring the power gap into the equation, there are also things like massive open world games, cheap AAA ports, and potentially even some Virtual Console stuff that you'd miss out on.

 

[Neoxon]

It wouldn't really be just some games can be played on both. It will probably actually end up being most game are playable on both.

Forcing 100% of the library to be shared doesn't really make sense. Even disregarding the difference in power, there are some games that simply don't work on handhelds. At least not without becoming very different games. Stuff like Wii Fit, Rock Band, or a wide variety of things built around motion controls. Not allowing those games to be made just because they wouldn't work on the handheld is is pointlessly limiting.

If we bring the power gap into the equation, there are also things like massive open world games, cheap AAA ports, and potentially even some Virtual Console stuff that you'd miss out on.

As far as Virtual Console goes, it may not be an issue for the NX Handheld until you get to the GameCube & the Wii. And even then, later iterations of the NX Handheld may be up to the task.