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MGSV: Konami Offline Tax for players who opt out of FOBs

I've never invaded any one or been invaded, yet I still get my GMP subtracted all the time and it's the worst. Just let me play my singleplayer Metal Gear, Konami!
Thankfully Cheat Engine is a thing.
is there any pattern.... like, every time you go over 1m gmp or something?


honestly, I like the FOB system when I did the SP... felt like more 'flavour and fluff' than actual impactful gameplay.... never invaded, and it actually made me gain GMP/level items a lot faster.

but all these impressions from the new MB and FOB transfer system sound so fucked up.
 

luka

Loves Robotech S1
What are the gameplay consequences of declining the ToS?

you can't go online and it will never sync your offline data with the server

if you don't want to take part in FOBs or have your resources siphoned there is no downside
 
is there any pattern.... like, every time you go over 1m gmp or something?


honestly, I like the FOB system when I did the SP... felt like more 'flavour and fluff' than actual impactful gameplay.... never invaded, and it actually made me gain GMP/level items a lot faster.

but all these impressions from the new MB and FOB transfer system sound so fucked up.

A pattern to being invaded, or losing your GMP?

For the latter, it's everytime I lose connection to whatever servers they're using. Then I lose whatever GMP and resources my FOB has earned.
 

joecanada

Member
So I wonder if Kojima actually saw this coming and left quick to avoid being associated with this bullshit

Or if he was let go for fundamental disagreement but is laughing now as he's probably relieved he's not part of it
 
What do you get for having a level 40 FOB? Weapons, gear, camo?
'leveling' basically doubles... so, 2x automatic mining... 2x R&D level, etc

your gameplay Support (e.g. speed at which supplies air drop, or air strikes commence) or Intel (automatic Marking, weather predictions) basically double, too.

it's just a speed change though, nothing different per se...

without a FOB it could be practically impossible to reach the later item upgrades though (especially before you beat the game).... without FOBs, you will probably be an a weapon disadvantage (e.g. unlock anti-material rifle later; unlock Buddy upgrades later, etc)
 
So I wonder if Kojima actually saw this coming and left quick to avoid being associated with this bullshit

Or if he was let go for fundamental disagreement but is laughing now as he's probably relieved he's not part of it

He probably was against this whilst Konami was pushing for it.
 

Fury451

Banned
Game is such a fucking joke with this bullshit and needs to be ridiculed every chance people get. Total shit show.

Honestly, yeah. It's a mockery. And I blame Kojima just as much as Konami, because the story sucks butt too on top of everything else.

But this practice makes me wonder if that's where the Konami/Kojima rift started. I can't imagine he as pushing for any of the FOB insurance/tax nonsense.
 
So I wonder if Kojima actually saw this coming and left quick to avoid being associated with this bullshit

Or if he was let go for fundamental disagreement but is laughing now as he's probably relieved he's not part of it

Kojima probably wanted another year to develop, Konami said you've had 4 and made him finish it.
 
I play FOB a little bit, but I also noticed the most recent patch stole all my shit. Now I can't sell any of the vehicles etc that I have....

what the hell why am I forced to have 15 jeeps at FOB but only 3 that I can sell? 80 mortars??
 
Or he was behind it all. So many theories!


601.gif
 

Toparaman

Banned
You should accept the agreement, just dont finish the tutorial. Disconnect your internet connection every time you get the prompt and reconnect. You wont get the prompt if you are not in the ACC and you will never be invaded as long as you dont finish the tutorial. You will never be able to develop certain items without an FOB.

Interesting. The thing is though, I'm pretty sure I'm going to beat the game without needing or even wanting to build an FOB. Maybe this is because I have done very few optional side-ops or missions.

The shit Konami is pulling is inexcusable, especially if this offline tax crap holds true no matter how much GDP you have. It sounds like a lot of people are getting screwed just because they're doing more than the required parts of the game, which is stupid as hell. And yet I think it's worth mentioning that I haven't personally been affected by any of this, because I've been so focused on finishing the core game first before doing anything else. And the core game is so long that I won't be doing anything else after finishing it.

So if your play style is the same as mine, you may still find the game worth your time. I realize that's a big if, but man this game has been incredible (for me), and I haven't used that word to describe a game since Resident Evil 4.
 

Recall

Member
I traded in my game. I wasn't aware I was buying a mobile game inspired product with weird gates and limitations and I'm never going to touch it again so might as well cut my losses now while it's relatively new.

MGS died with a gun to its head.
 

lawnchair

Banned
you don't understand. MGS5 is like 120/100 metacritic score, it can lose 25 points for Konami fuckery but it'll still an A+ game, you feel me? Years of sweat and blood and love and silliness were put into this. Even Konami can't ruin it enough to make it worth skipping.

that is the truth.
 

HoodWinked

Gold Member
i got the pc version day 1 and beat the game and now at around 82% complete and i've never been attacked and never attacked anyone either, game is always connected. beat all
50
main missions. so i really cant relate at all with the complaints. (the first screen shot can only be accessed while online)

 

Spaghetti

Member
I don't believe "just don't buy the microtransactions" is a solution—I apologize if this isn't what you meant by "reject that psychology". There's nothing optional about the way the game's progress has been designed around applying psychological pressure on the player to spend additional money and my stance is it shouldn't be in a premium game at all.

Up until this game's release, my biggest weapon to fight back against gross microtransactions in premium games was to not buy the game at all. Because reviews often explained what kind of microtransaction features were available, I was informed enough to do this. Even in cases where the full microtransaction details weren't available until the day of release (for reasons such as online servers not being live) I avoided issues by not preordering anything.

Now that publishers are actively hiding their post release monetization models from reviewers and patching them in post-release-window, the only way I can keep that up is to literally not buy any game until a few months down the road. Or at all. How is purposefully providing altered review copies in order to elicit artificially positive reviews accepted? Frankly, why is it legal? I know it brings up a swamp of questions about how to determine malicious intent versus the nature of unfinished review copies, but this is poisonous and it seems like there should be something that can be done about it.
not buying the microtransactions is more an end goal of what i'm talking about, rather than the whole idea. it's possible to not buy into the microtransactions but still be bothered by the reasons that are there to push you into the temptation of buying them. what i'm talking about is letting those reasons go. the crux of the enjoyment of mgsv isn't really in any of the systems that would involve you to interact with the microtransaction ecosystem, because that's too transparent. instead they rely on obsessive collection-based behavior that is present in most games to push you into a mindset where you engage with the microtransactions.

what i'm suggesting is letting that go to focus on enjoying the core gameplay. i struggled with it for a while, but i stopped sweating it when i realised there's nothing involving obsessive collecting that makes the game any more fun. i just got more selective with my fultoning, and put more focus into infiltration, combat, exploration, etc. i got my base to a natural, acceptably high level without obsessing over it, and left it at that. basically i'm arguing against wanting to max things out. there's a definite divide there too between what the creative side want, and what the money men want. there are little rewards in terms of things related to the core gameplay that come with higher levels, but the microtransaction people are relying on you wanting to max out those numbers. that's probably part of the reason S+ and S++ staff are locked behind the FOB system too.

as for not buying the games with microtransactions, it's a viable option. unfortunately that could be viewed as a mark against the creative people who made the game, and not the corporate influences who ensured a microtransaction system was put in place. there's no real answer that's right. buying the game but not buying the microtransactions should say "I like the creative people behind the game, but not this model that is asking for more of my money", but i don't know if any teams working the sales reports will see that.

as for the ethics of it, it's murky. boycotts can't really be enforced, nor do they usually work either. so how do people fight back against a microtransaction system they disagree with in a series they like, and a game they may want to play? they can try it your way and not buy it, or at least buy it used if possible, or they can buy the game but avoid the microtransactions. the company gets the money sure, but it's what they get it for that should hopefully make them pay attention. but like i said, i don't know if their internal sales reports reflect that.

ultimately bad press over microtransactions is more damaging than a few lost sales here and there, but of course that means a sufficient amount of people have to play and buy the game for that ball to get rolling.

long story short, there's no solution to microtransactions that's solid enough to hold right now in terms of being a consumer. as a gamer, maybe we can try to do more to reject the psychology that tempts or frustrates us into potential microtransaction usage.
 
I play FOB a little bit, but I also noticed the most recent patch stole all my shit. Now I can't sell any of the vehicles etc that I have....

what the hell why am I forced to have 15 jeeps at FOB but only 3 that I can sell? 80 mortars??

The offline 3 will be refilled from your online pile every time you log in. So you can't sell everything at once which is annoying but you can eventually sell those jeeps.
 

Neiteio

Member
The current split doesn't seem to hamstring the player too much, but it's a worrying trend nonetheless. For all we know, Konami could continue to tighten the screws and apply more pressure. Pretty shady of them to do this after so many people have already bought the game. I wonder if this was foreshadowed in the legal fine-print I always skip past every time I boot up the game.
 
i got the pc version day 1 and beat the game and now at around 82% complete and i've never been attacked and never attacked anyone either, game is always connected. beat all
50
main missions. so i really cant relate at all with the complaints. (the first screen shot can only be accessed while online)

PC version, around 60%. I've been invaded 3 times by non-retaliations. I also have a ridiculous amount of play time though. I'm up to 45 (I think?) succesful FOB invasions myself and about 12 of those are from the Mosquito thing.
 

Joeku

Member
You people defending and downplaying this in any way at all are the crazy right-wing of the video game world, akin to Trump supporters. "Kojima's a straight shooter, I'd have a beer with him." He's complicit in this garbage, and the fun you had with the game blinding you to this is such intentional ignorance that it astounds me. You're literally part of the problem.

The changes to MGSV post-launch are disgusting and manipulative as all hell and it makes me glad that Konami's out of console development. Let them have the gross gambling machines but keep them locked to parlours. #FuckKonami
 

LOLCats

Banned
Is this real? Im like on mission 19 but i took a break from the game, i was just going to stay offline after mission 22... Wtf. What if you dont have any GMP does it go negative, moral will be low!
 

Astery

Member
So you are basically saying that they are negatively impacting the experience of people who are only interested in the single player game for the sake of the people who want more bases to invade. I disagree that that is their motivation, and I would also disagree with your premise. If some portion of players elects to play offline 100% of the time, the people playing online will still have plenty of bases to invade.

for the sake of micro transactions.
If invading became a whole lot of one-off sync bases without any staff patrolling due to all being killed off or stolen in the database I wouldn't imagine it as fun to invaders who want some actual game in there aside from stealing resources the further they get.

if offline/ online once and never again players bite the incentive to get online for a larger resource pool reserve that they have been robbed from with the 1.04 patch then it's like a new flood of users to join in online, which is never bad for Konami.

And for players who love FOB, it also never hurts to have more bases always "active" to them, as much as I agree that they will still have plenty to invade even players who don't want to participate could stay not participating.
 

Toparaman

Banned
You people defending and downplaying this in any way at all are the crazy right-wing of the video game world, akin to Trump supporters. "Kojima's a straight shooter, I'd have a beer with him." He's complicit in this garbage, and the fun you had with the game blinding you to this is such intentional ignorance that it astounds me. You're literally part of the problem.
Citation needed for bolded.
 

dubq

Member
Ha ha, seriously, fuck this company. They are never getting another dime from me. Someone translate that to Japanese and tweet it to their fuckface CEO.
 
The changes to MGSV post-launch are disgusting and manipulative as all hell and it makes me glad that Konami's out of console development.

Agreed. Shit like this being able to run wild is concerning. But they know the majority won't care. I regret buying the game myself. I was disgusted with its awful structure and abysmal sense of pacing and sheer repetitiveness long before any of this crap started happening though. So to me it's a bad game that the company keeps managing to make worse on a seemingly weekly basis. It's truly something to behold.

I won't hold Kojima responsible though until there's valid evidence. We know Konami meddled with development a while back and after that is when we learned of the tension between Kojima and Konami. I'm more inclined to believe that Konami sabotaged development in order to make way for this stuff, but that's speculation for now.
 

Heel

Member
You people defending and downplaying this in any way at all are the crazy right-wing of the video game world, akin to Trump supporters.

I'd argue that anyone opting out of building a FOB are the crazy ones. Maybe people on PC have cheating to worry about, but I've seen console players in particular have this irrational fear that their entire progress will be wiped out by invaders if they dare to build a FOB.

The truth is it provides a very cheap way to expand your operation and progress your way up the skill tree, which easily counteracts any losses you would incur from invaders while playing, if you're even invaded at all.

The insurance plays into this weird fear, which makes it all the more interesting.
 

Aces&Eights

Member
The older I get the more I complain. I know this about myself so I try and curtail it as much as possible but this is just ridiculous. I can see pushing to get someone to play online so they can at least experience your work but literally fining them game money, assets and offering "insurance" so that you can have enough resources to even play the SP game is an outrage. I mean, holy crap. I paid $60.00 for my game. Full retail. I don't want to deal with online shenanigans so I play offline. I like SP games. Now, all the money and assets I have accumulated throughout my playthrough will be hit since I don't want to connect or I am not paying MORE money for insurance?

I, I, just, I can't even.


I'd argue that anyone opting out of building a FOB are the crazy ones. Maybe people on PC have cheating to worry about, but I've seen console players in particular have this irrational fear that their entire progress will be wiped out by invaders if they dare to build a FOB.

The truth is it provides a very cheap way to expand your operation and progress your way up the skill tree, which easily counteracts any losses you would incur from invaders while playing, if you're even invaded at all.

The insurance plays into this weird fear, which makes it all the more interesting.


Here's the thing, I just simply don't want to deviate from my SP game. I don't want to have more management that what is necessary for the regular game. I don't want a notice someone is invading or have to set my guys to go invade, or defend, or whatever. There is a ton of micromanaging in the game already, some of us can't be bothered to partake in an online affair. It's not the fear of someone "wiping me out", rather, I just want to play alone and in peace. I paid full price for my copy so I think if I disconnect from the online, I have a right to not see my accrued SP money be taken from me as a punishment. It's ridiculous.
 

akira28

Member
Kojima saw a way to get past the FOB tutorial, but Konami never contemplated such a thing, and so hardcoded their new online\offline changes to all players, regardless of if they did the FOB or not.

that's what it looks like so far on page 1.
 

Joeku

Member
I'd argue that anyone opting out of building a FOB are the crazy ones. Maybe people on PC have cheating to worry about, but I've seen console players in particular have this irrational fear that their entire progress will be wiped out by invaders if they dare to build a FOB.

The truth is it provides a very cheap way to expand your operation and progress your way up the skill tree, which easily counteracts any losses you would incur from invaders while playing, if you're even invaded at all.

The insurance plays into this weird fear, which makes it all the more interesting.

I opted in to have four deployment teams instead of two, and all of the FOB shenanigans have been an annoyance ever since. While it didn't actually break the flow of the metagame for me (because I'm largely done with it now and the systems didn't drive me enough to need to get high-end struts and gear that need crazy amount of resources) it's gross that the systems collectively funnel towards microtransactions and would be the slipperiest of slippery fucking slopes if not for Konami leaving traditional game development.
 

v0yce

Member
I'd argue that anyone opting out of building a FOB are the crazy ones. Maybe people on PC have cheating to worry about, but I've seen console players in particular have this irrational fear that their entire progress will be wiped out by invaders if they dare to build a FOB.

The truth is it provides a very cheap way to expand your operation and progress your way up the skill tree, which easily counteracts any losses you would incur from invaders while playing, if you're even invaded at all.

The insurance plays into this weird fear, which makes it all the more interesting.

It's not irrational fear, it's not wanting to bother with this unnecessary part of the game that has nothing to do with the fun bits I want to play.
 

SJRB

Gold Member
After the latest patch, your resources are basically helt hostage by the FOB system.

You have no control over it, you have no option to opt out of it. 3/4 of your stuff gets moved online for literally no reason other than to push you towards FOB insurance scheme. There is no gameplay reason to fulton vehicles or emplacements anymore since all of it will be hauled into the online abyss.

It's an outrage that deserves WAY more media attention than it's getting. I'm pretty much done with this fucking thing after that. My most anticipated game ever, and look what it has become.

Fuck you Konami. I hate you so much.
 

ironcreed

Banned
The older I get the more I complain. I know this about myself so I try and curtail it as much as possible but this is just ridiculous. I can see pushing to get someone to play online so they can at least experience your work but literally fining them game money, assets and offering "insurance" so that you can have enough resources to even play the SP game is an outrage. I mean, holy crap. I paid $60.00 for my game. Full retail. I don't want to deal with online shenanigans so I play offline. I like SP games. Now, all the money and assets I have accumulated throughout my playthrough will be hit since I don't want to connect or I am not paying MORE money for insurance?

I, I, just, I can't even.

Obligatory:

228909_Is_this_real_life.jpg
 

J.EM1

Member
I haven't encountered this. Every time I boot up the game I always decline the TOS. I also haven't even developed a FOB and have beaten the main story.
 
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