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PlayStation Exec Says First Party Game Lineup Was Not As Strong in 2015
- Thread starter Poetic.Injustice
- Start date
Omnistalgic
Member
Bloodborne was published by Sony, so is Until dawn, many deals like this actually have people from Sony working on the game, second party doesn't exist in the real world. Don't get why something from Sony internal studios are now the measuring stick to the platforms exclusive performance. Lol goal posts...many of Sonys studios were put in place not even to drive hardware, but to be a showpiece for devs etc...WWS while exciting, was never meant to be the driving force of the platform, PS is meant for third parties. Someone can hopefully find an article highlighting this.
privitsan02
Member
lol
Eolz
Member
Relevant this gen.
Gran Turismo is in decline and has no game on PS4 yet (the next one not even being GT7), Driveclub hasn't really been well received and is apparently only relevant on Gaf (for its screenshot mode).
Meanwhile, Forza has been there since the start and keeps selling well in two different sub-genres, coupled with a good reception (apart for microtransactions).
Seems easy to see who is relevant and who isn't, there's even a good argument to make for Project Cars.
But yeah, sure, if you've got sales numbers (for this gen, but you can even include GT6 if you want), I have no problems listening.
What Microsoft delivered exactly??
Even not considering remasters and indies where Sony has a clear overall advantage, MS had basically nothing for all the year and then they released the annual Forza game, Halo 5 and Tomb Raider (which they got through a money hat and we know how it ended...).
Sony released The Order, Bloodborne ( highest rated exclusive of the year if I'm not mistaking), annual MLB The Show, Until Dawn (which is considered by many the sleeper hit of the year), Tearaway (semi-remake of an other great game).
Sony's lineup was obviously ruined by the delays of Uncharted 4 and Ratchet&Clank that left them with nothing for the Q4 period (not considering the Uncharted Collection) and no one can deny that Sony dropped the ball with their holiday lineup this year because of this.
But looking at the whole year I'm really not seeing this disparity in quality and quantity between what the two companies offered.
Dirtyshubb
Member
I think it's the new go to argument of why Microsoft had a better line up of games this year, even though tomb raider is coming out on ps4 and halo 5 has had mixed reviews at best with ip historically low sales but hey, you move those goal posts to suit your argument it seems
Naughty_Doge
Member
Bloodborne is as much of a first party (or third party, if you want to consider it as such) as The Order and UD.
Dragon Puncher
Member
I really don't want to go all list wars on this thread, but the narrative that Microsoft destroyed Sony's first party output in 2015 is kinda ridicules.
If we're only counting 100% true exclusives, meaning games that only appear on either PS4 or Xbox One (meaning no PC or last gen version) and isn't some sort of port or remaster, the difference in output is pretty huge.
This is the true exclusives for the Xbox One in 2015:
- Forza Motorsport 6
- Halo 5: Guardians
I'm not being facetious here, I checked multiple sources, every other Xbox One exclusive is either also on PC or is some sort of port or remaster like Rare Replay.
On the other hand, this is the list of true exclusives for the PS4 in 2015 (counting games released in NA):
- The Order: 1886
- Bloodborne
- Omega Quintet
- Onechanbara Z2: Chaos
- N++
- Everybody's Gone to the Rapture
- Until Dawn
- Guns up!
- Disgaea 5: Alliance of Vengeance
- Tearaway Unfolded (Tearaway was changed quite a bit from it's Vita release, so in my mind it doesn't just count as a port, but feel free to disagree here)
That's 10 games on PS4 vs 2 on Xbox One. Those 2 games might interest you more than what the PS4 offers and that's totally fair, but making it sound like MS completely outclassed Sony, when their true exclusives amount to a Forza game and a new Halo, seems a little shortsighted.
If we're only counting 100% true exclusives, meaning games that only appear on either PS4 or Xbox One (meaning no PC or last gen version) and isn't some sort of port or remaster, the difference in output is pretty huge.
This is the true exclusives for the Xbox One in 2015:
- Forza Motorsport 6
- Halo 5: Guardians
I'm not being facetious here, I checked multiple sources, every other Xbox One exclusive is either also on PC or is some sort of port or remaster like Rare Replay.
On the other hand, this is the list of true exclusives for the PS4 in 2015 (counting games released in NA):
- The Order: 1886
- Bloodborne
- Omega Quintet
- Onechanbara Z2: Chaos
- N++
- Everybody's Gone to the Rapture
- Until Dawn
- Guns up!
- Disgaea 5: Alliance of Vengeance
- Tearaway Unfolded (Tearaway was changed quite a bit from it's Vita release, so in my mind it doesn't just count as a port, but feel free to disagree here)
That's 10 games on PS4 vs 2 on Xbox One. Those 2 games might interest you more than what the PS4 offers and that's totally fair, but making it sound like MS completely outclassed Sony, when their true exclusives amount to a Forza game and a new Halo, seems a little shortsighted.
how many units do you think forza games are moving? Just to know if we can have a proper discussion based on something more relevant than your feelings.
Omnistalgic
Member
Man...i would just give up now, some of these discussions just come down to being weird. When did it start mattering so much what building a game was developed in? If that Sony symbol is on the box, it comes from them. Simple IMO. In fact the I love Sonys approach and would hate for a bunch of their titles to be up against the Holiday rush period.
Driveclub has sold better than the past two Forza games last I read. Guess Forza must be in decline as well, yeah?
Yeah, I keep wondering what these people are talking about with this as well. Hardly any exclusives released on Xbox One this year at all. Don't even think there was a single one all year until like October or something.
It's starting to come off as kinda delusional at this point tbh.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
I just get caught up in how ridiculous some of the posts are regarding something you already know is grounded on semantics.
did you play killzone 2?
They were both pretty shit, really.
Between MCC and Driveclub both platform holders screwed the pooch something fierce.
Omnistalgic
Member
You have to clarify what your relevant is referring to mate. If we are talking about critical reception, I think forza series in general have been rated well, not exceptionally better than other racers however. Sales wise, GT6 is upwards of 5+million on old hardware and DC has sold over 2 million with a growing ps+ community. It is also continually updated with new campaigns. GT7 is likely going to smash records upon release, since its not a title that comes out very often and past trends show the first GT on a new PS console are very strong. I think the slow release schedule of PD has simply made people on forums forget how relevant the series is. You have official sponsors from the racing world in your title. They want to use GT and VR to compete for real world competitions, it is absolutely relevant, and has a much stronger casual fan sell potential. Just watch hardware/software sales, particularly in Europe when GT hits.
Mass Effect
Member
Yeah, it could have been better, but at the same time I think it was still pretty good if you are a new Playstation owner, or at least skipped the PS3 and Vita like I did. Journey, GoWIII (though way overpriced), Tearaway Unfolded (which I really wanted to play this game) might as well be new to me.
Plus we got Bloodborne, which was absolutely amazing, and Until Dawn, which I'll get to eventually.
Still, it's not like Sony can pull games out of thin air. It's not like they were going "we're just not going to make first-party titles so we can get exclusive partnerships instead!" The games from their studios are coming, it's just taking a bit longer than anticipated, with a few delays here and there.
They're not sitting around doing nothing. 2016 is looking ridiculously stacked though.
Also, are we really splitting hairs about what is and isn't first-party?
Okay, maybe I'm missing something but Microsoft only had Forza 6, Halo 5, Tomb Raider, and... ? Big games (well, Halo at least) sure, but "ridiculous?" I'm not seeing it. Even Nintendo's line-up was just as good this year.
Plus we got Bloodborne, which was absolutely amazing, and Until Dawn, which I'll get to eventually.
Still, it's not like Sony can pull games out of thin air. It's not like they were going "we're just not going to make first-party titles so we can get exclusive partnerships instead!" The games from their studios are coming, it's just taking a bit longer than anticipated, with a few delays here and there.
They're not sitting around doing nothing. 2016 is looking ridiculously stacked though.
Also, are we really splitting hairs about what is and isn't first-party?
Okay, maybe I'm missing something but Microsoft only had Forza 6, Halo 5, Tomb Raider, and... ? Big games (well, Halo at least) sure, but "ridiculous?" I'm not seeing it. Even Nintendo's line-up was just as good this year.
Uh... neither of those came out this year.
Both would have been solid, even great games if it weren't for their issues.
Just no!
This thread is just like "PS4 has no games" shit. I really thought that exclusives matter, whether they are from 1st party, 2nd party or 3rd party studios. But who cares anyway. 1st party only counts!
Bloodborne is highest rated exclusive this year. Until Dawn great sleeper hit.
It's interesting to me how much everyone really wants first party games to matter when the market has pretty much been SCREAMING that they just are not relevant vs sales for Sony. 30m+ PS4s seem to bear that out. Historically 1st party always mattered more to MS and Nintendo anyways. If I was Sony I would take my sweet, sweet time pushing out any games. Why rush at all? There's nothing I can point to that says "Here. This is evidence that it's important we have X number of 1st party titles otherwise Y will occur."
Yh it's a bit silly because at the end of the day they own the IP/funded the game those "2nd party" games wouldn't exist without Sony funding them in the first place.
Good post. Even if you discount the DD titles/Japanese titles you still have The Order: 1886, Bloodborne which can't be argued that they are an "AAA" plus Until Dawn. It's always funny to see how the perception is mostly always so far from reality with this.
Serviam
Member
Indeed. Game of the generation so far. Only Ori got my attention on my Xbone this year. I have bought Until Dawn but not had time to start it. Got to finish Fallout 4 first.
For me next year looks more interesting on Xbone so far. Doesn't matter tho, its all about the games!
This was pretty much my experience with the PS4 this year...
It stayed off almost the entire year and only got turned on this holiday season because at $10, I was finally okay with seeing how terrible The Order: 1886 was (exceeded expectations, somehow even more terrible than I could have imagined)...
2016 looks like it has games that will actually make me press the power button on the PS4 in between all the multiplatform releases I'll play on the Xbox (for Live, friends, achievements, and the superior controller IMHO).
neurosyphilis
Definitely not an STD, as I'm a pure.
Ok buddy. You do know Forza sales have been on a decline right ? Forza haven't even made the top 10 in the US.
neurosyphilis
Definitely not an STD, as I'm a pure.
Dude what in the hell are you even talking about ? I guess it went over your head huh ?
Omnistalgic
Member
shu just said this in an interview. Sonys WWS were meant to be experimental and supplementary to big third party titles. Which makes sense particularly when you look at what Sony was going up against with the original PS. This way, WWS has the freedom of taking more risk, and Sony was able to get some key franchises under there belt as well. Stuff like Dreams, Rain, Gravity Rush, just doesn't happen from MS. I would rather take the weird titles that are sometimes successful (Until Dawn/Gravity Rush) and sometimes not (The Order) but still make a well rounded library. And for people new to PS, they had a stellar 2015. People forget not everyone picked up a ps3. Playing TLOU, Journey, UCC, Tearaway, Sound Shapes, etc...for the first time is probably a very appealing lineup of exclusives. Us hardcore will get served next year, and early at that.
entremet
Member
Taking remasters and repeated games:
Bloodborne
MLB 15: The Show
The Order: 1886
Until Dawn
Helldivers
Everybody's Gone to the Rapture
Fat Princess Adventures
Hustle Kings
Guns Up!
Super Stardust Ultra
Not a strong year at all for me...
Agreed. But the PS consoles have always been about 3rd party support.
1st party support is a bonus.
Eolz
Member
Globally, after 6 months, around 1-1.5M per game. Am I far off? + DLC sales and season passes
Last I know, GT6 sold less than 2.5M after a while without a lot of secondary revenues or regular releases.
This genre is in decline as a whole. Just not as fast depending on the games. Pretty sure half DC copies have been bought in PSN sales or in bargain bins due to its bad launch reputation.
Source for the 5+M?
Not saying DC hasn't any developer support, so not sure where you're going with that.
Forza has sponsors too, just isn't focused on regular cars as well, and being more about famous cars or supercars. GT certainly has a big nostalgia appeal, but I really doubt it will break any records (sales or reception), but we obviously still have some time to see. Just basing this on GT6 and the other PS3 GT releases.
Again, I was talking about relevancy globally this gen. Frequent releases (and thus marketing), good reception at launch (by players and critics alike) and importance in this genre makes it always relevant in the mind of mainstream gamers (obviously not talking about pire simulation titles that PS players don't care about either).
Read replies above.
I know that racing games sell usually better in Europe and that while also in decline, it's more of an evergreen IP selling continuously.
Oh, yeah huh. Got confused with MCC coming out late last year. In my defense I'm basically one step away from being violently ill right now. Got my wires crossed, hahaha. Worst part was I actually checked the release date and saw 2014 and said, "Yeah that's totally what year we're in!"
Fuck, now that I think about it this year is actually worse than I thought just by virtue of how barren the release schedule has been.
Didn't realize that, but it puts everything into perspective. I still wish they would have let SSM team 2 release their game that was supposedly too similar to Destiny, but it makes sense why they chose to cancel it considering how well Destiny is doing on the PS and the good relationship they seem to have with Activision.
So you think the forza games are popular and have good sales with 1-1.5M per game (even if you have no source for them) but Driveclub at +2M copies sold through before PS+ edition launched and GT6 on last gen only well over that 2.5M figure as GT series grew +5M copies since GT6 launch until GTSports announcement are irrelevant.
That makes no sense. They cancelled it because it wasn't working after years of investment. Not because it would be similar to a popular game so it would have good sales.
SolidSnakex
Member
The GT6 numbers were bogus and were based on a court filing by a company that used the numbers from Chartz.
Agreed. These are the type of statements that you make when the gen is over and people look back at various years of that gen. Not now.
People can see this and say "Okay, if even Sony admits that their lineup was weak then why should I get their system right now?". Really unnecessary to say in my opinion.
Edit: Oh boy... Thread is going worse than I expected (haha).
Omnistalgic
Member
If we are talking about global relevancy and sales, then yeah I'm not sure I see your argument here as Forza simply does not sell that well as a franchise, and Xbox itself is only really popular in U.S this Gen where racers struggle. Its like saying Mario Kart isn't relevant because they only come out once every 4 years. There's not a single kart racer that gets even close to it in sales - period. This is pretty much the case with GT. We have some tough critics on forums, but in reality the latest title was likely overshadowed by the ps4 launch and was well received both commercially and critically. Sorry on my phone but try a search for GT6 on GAF and you should find a thread where it has the latest numbers on the game. Even the iteration that sold the least doubled and tripled forza titles. Its extremely unlikely this trend won't continue with the given circumstances unless GTSport and GT7 are both horrible experiences.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Did you just call Forza a relevant franchise and said Gran Turismo is not? Congratulations for the dumbest post of the year sir.
Frag Waffles
Member
It's always entertaining to see a comment like this, met with "LOL yeah Microsoft destroyed Sony this year with their amazing lineup of forza and halo!!!" I'd prefer Sony to be honest about the minimal first party lineup as opposed to shoving a "greatest lineup IN HISTORY" marketing slogan in my face. But maybe that's just me.
Mass Effect
Member
Forza NPD launch month numbers for reference:
Forza 4: 393k
Forza 3: 249.7k
Forza 2: 154k
(source: NPD threads)
Aquamarine on Forza Horizon (can't quote the numbers she gave me because the thread is locked):
you know, since you guys are arguing about it for some reason.
Forza 4: 393k
Forza 3: 249.7k
Forza 2: 154k
(source: NPD threads)
Aquamarine on Forza Horizon (can't quote the numbers she gave me because the thread is locked):
you know, since you guys are arguing about it for some reason.
SmoothRunningGun
Member
Last Guardian lol.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Imagine what next year will do given their poor games slate this year.
Personally for me Sony consoles are attractive for the smaller, weirder titles they seem happy to invest in. The likes of unfinished swan, or parappa the rapper etc. I know they get criticised for not having the big blockbusters like halo, but I like that about them.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
It took 3 years for the ps3 to get its big barrage of first party games.
Killzone 2, infamous, uncharted 2, little big planet, all came out in 2009.
Killzone 2, infamous, uncharted 2, little big planet, all came out in 2009.