Ol No Bones
Banned
Im not sure it's quite as horrific as some people think but it has to be pretty jarring to see a virtual object just disappear from your vision.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Hololens FoV "like standing 2ft away form a 15" monitor
- Thread starter Raist
- Start date
aygomyownroad
Member
Tend to find that Microsofts ideas are usually really great, but take a few generations to be viable.
Microsoft Band 2, Surface Pro 3, etc
(Zune never got a chance but still have mine).
This can't be their answer to PSVR, its dead on arrival with these poor FOV.
Microsoft Band 2, Surface Pro 3, etc
(Zune never got a chance but still have mine).
This can't be their answer to PSVR, its dead on arrival with these poor FOV.
I don't think that's what he's trying to say, I think he's saying the reason forum goers are treating it as "AR vs VR" is because MS showed AR and Sony showed VR.
It really is that small.
Ol No Bones
Banned
Aww ok. my bad.
well, it's a similar issue to the first gen 3DS implementation of stereoscopic 3D.
either your display will constantly move in and out of existence, or you'll have to train yourself to reduce head movement to a minimum.
it's demos like this one
that show pretty much exactly what the HoloLens cannot do
Well, if any of you watched the video of the MS Exec talking you could see how frank he was about it. He also mentioned that they had a version of the Hololens with "full FOV" but it would die in about 20 minutes, you can't sell that. So as the processor and battery tech get better over time...that FOV will increase. So it's really just a matter of time and tech.
RowdyReverb
Member
The biggest problem with HoloLens is that news keeps getting posted to Gaming Discussion when its scope would really put it in Off-Topic.
People keep comparing its applications in gaming to VR, which is an even more narrow view than this first generation's FOV
People keep comparing its applications in gaming to VR, which is an even more narrow view than this first generation's FOV
then why the insistence of a self contained unit? I like the idea of freedom of movement, but maybe also make one that has a full fov but is wired to a host computer?
I think this shitty fov hurts AR more than a power cord atm.
Given that you are saying people are giving the device's gaming capabilities too much credit, the view would be wide, not narrow. A narrow view would be saying the device should only be used for business applications.
Cynn
Member
I would buy that and just plug it into the wall so as I worked I could have actual, scaleable, virtual desktops like in the one concept video.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
As someone sitting 2 feet from his 15" notebook right now?
It is very very tiny for a FOV.
Also this. Really comforting to know it's just a matter of battery and price, which will quickly drop in future years. Really excited for these "full FOV" models.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Because wireless is needed for mass market with the applications that they want to sell. It has to work in every room, you have to be able to move around freely without taking care not to get lost in cables.
RowdyReverb
Member
I meant the opposite, that people keep saying how VR is better for games and MS bet on the wrong horse when the device has way more potential applications than just playing games. It's like ragging on the Surface Pro because desktops play games better.
Alx
Member
The custom camera is quite obviously equipped with a kinect2. The sensing part may actually be simpler than the one in the headset. Most of the technology is software based.
LukasTaves
Member
A forward facing camera has its own share of problems too though.
It's a bit of a bet I think, which will improve sooner to be the more adequate solution:
Having a camera with so much quality and speed that could pass as real life, or improving the Fov and hologram transparency on transparent screens that already has the real world vision for free.
If you think about it, eventually they are very likely to overlap a lot. VR headsets being able to render a very life like redemption of the real world, and AR headsets having a FOV so high, and the ability to render completely solid holograms which would make them possible to make a hologram so big it would go from AR to VR. I think it's just a matter on who gets there first and at a lower price.
Buggy Loop
Member
https://youtu.be/zxM4vN_4jJY
With peoples already hacking VR headsets like the DK2 to have AR, and Vive including the room visual cues, its only a matter of a few iterations before its integrated in all VR headsets. Eventually with Leapmotion (hand detection technology integrated in the headset itself.
AR and VR are bound to merge and become just one product.
It will go to something quite "clunky" like this
With a couple of iterations being just better optics and adding the camera for AR.
To some kind of mix between hololens/google glass/VR
To transparant glasses that can go opaque for full VR immersion or simply show AR stuffs in your daily life.
To eventually some crazy sophisitcated contact lens (or a bionic eyes for the peoples who will go willfully into augmentations).
With peoples already hacking VR headsets like the DK2 to have AR, and Vive including the room visual cues, its only a matter of a few iterations before its integrated in all VR headsets. Eventually with Leapmotion (hand detection technology integrated in the headset itself.
AR and VR are bound to merge and become just one product.
It will go to something quite "clunky" like this
With a couple of iterations being just better optics and adding the camera for AR.
To some kind of mix between hololens/google glass/VR
To transparant glasses that can go opaque for full VR immersion or simply show AR stuffs in your daily life.
To eventually some crazy sophisitcated contact lens (or a bionic eyes for the peoples who will go willfully into augmentations).
Alx
Member
Quite true. The thing is that the only exposure of neogaf posters to Hololens has been the E3 demo, while MS communication about it has had very few mentions of gaming. If you go to the product homepage, there isn't even a hint at gaming applications.
https://www.microsoft.com/microsoft-hololens/en-us
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Wow, I was expecting this to be great when I read it and then I realized I was sitting at a 15" screen. That's pretty horrific.
Yeah exactly. Thanks for clearing it up.
Amazing gif choice
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
For some reason Microsoft presented it at E3 as a viable gaming device.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
http://www.businessinsider.com/nadella-hints-hololens-is-5-years-away-2015-9
Satya Nadella hints that Microsoft's mind-blowing new product HoloLens is really 5 years away
Alx
Member
I mean, come on.
You can clearly see the kinect2 on the front. The HD camera of course, all the usual stabilization harness things, a feedback screen (since the AR overlay doesn't appear on the camera), and a bunch of wires.
The only things I can't identify are the devices on the top, some of them may be for wireless communication. And I guess the PC doing the processing is at the other end of the cables. Or maybe those are just for power.
What kind of magical sensors do you think that demo requires ? What the custom camera does is no different from what the headset does, only it isn't limited by the field of view of AR overlay. And all the feedback says the headset tracking does work, so there's no reason to believe the processing from the camera pov has specific advantages.
Took out a tape measure and can confirm this guy's method of describing the field of view is accurate if you're struggling to picture it:
After trying this it's actually close to the size of my 42" TV relative to where I usually sit. I guess not too bad but it really does break the immersion of what they're trying to do completely, and I'm not sure how well all of their BS demos would work with such a small window.
Augmented reality is the near future, it has far more practical applications in a variety of industries. Virtual reality unless we reach Matrix, Surrogates style virtual reality won't be able to take away from the utility of not only seeing the world around us, but having interactive elements in it. For VR, the primary driver right now is games and entertainment. For AR, there are far more practical applications real life applications here. Did you not see how ubiquitous Google Glass became?
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Microsoft trying to push R&D only tech out to desperately show they're not behind with VR like they were with smartphones and tablets basically.
It's not ready, won't be ready for potentially another decade, but MS decides they want to piss in the AR pool ahead of time, damned be the consequences.
As others have said, VR with AR through cameras is the actual product headed our way in a commercial sense and smartphones/mobileVR will be the ideal market to push that as well. Which MS is also totally behind on. Whoops!
It's not ready, won't be ready for potentially another decade, but MS decides they want to piss in the AR pool ahead of time, damned be the consequences.
As others have said, VR with AR through cameras is the actual product headed our way in a commercial sense and smartphones/mobileVR will be the ideal market to push that as well. Which MS is also totally behind on. Whoops!
Alx
Member
I think it's more a question of convenience than performance. The camera setup is clunky because it can be and it's easier to build that way. They could obviously use a smaller sensor than an off-the-shelf kinect sensor, but it does the job and is plug and play, so why not ?
The fact that that huge setup does the same tracking as their small headset is actually another thing to put to their credit.
Yeah pretty much - AR isnt in a state to be shown but MS felt like they had to have something to combat VR so lets just show it too early and embellish the fuck out of what we can do currently.
AR just as important as VR (its probably moreso as its has much wider applications but thats where much matured VR could apply) just a bit further away due to far more current limitations that really should be addressed before going public.
ps3ud0 8)
Garrett Hawke
Member
Except last year people were defending it and claiming that it was just a smear campaign against MS. This time the info is straight from the source.
Still though, hope they can sort this in future because that will be bad ass.
We shouldn't live in a world of wires.
Well the power is the reason for the FOV.
The better question is why shouldn't we? Having everything wireless and self-contained is more future leaning than hooking everything up to wires/boxes just to look at something. A big negative for the Oculus is that it is wired and you need to buy a good enough PC (if u don't have it already) to use it. With the self contained unit, u just buy the unit.
Truth but then people will argue about the E3 showing of it.
People that think VR is going to be more popular than AR, until there's a mix, are nuts.
Also the people saying the tech isn't exciting because of the FOV are nuts. Thus is amazing technology with limitations but amazing technology nonetheless. It's not hard to admit it.
Uh huh. Please find those posts of people saying it was a smear campaign. MS talked about the FOV last year, too.
EventHorizon
Member
The FOV isn't even Hololens' biggest...err smallish...problem. Price is.
...problem. Price is.I disagree. Both will be very useful for different applications. VR will be very entertainment oriented at first and then be put to use as a work/learning tool more and more as time goes on, while Hololense will primarily function as a work/learning tool from the beginning while entertainment applications will be minimum.
The FOV isn't even Hololens' biggest...err smallish
It's made for enterprise users first. Unlike potentially the Vive which could launch at $1500 for consumers.
And it's annoying to see so many people completely disregard all of the positive hands on impressions of this.
You'll never have wet hair.
Anyway everyone here should already know it was a marketing lie. Still I'm really interested in this. Perhaps 2020-22 it'll be better. Need to get that power usage down.
Outrun
Member
Alx
Member
All feedback from first hand users has been that the tracking of the headset works as it should. So yes I'm assuming it does, but it's not baseless.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Absolute and total bollocks.
I will one day be excited for HoloLens 2022 Edition, but FUD on VR in the meantime with nonsense like "Vive might be $1500 too!" is insufferable. People pretending the FOV wasn't a big deal last year and MS weren't "really" misrepresenting it were bad enough, but now we move into Phase 2 I guess.
InsaneTiger
Member
I am not surprised.
Microsoft isn't bringing Hololens to market. So far, there are no indications that they have a consumer model or that they're aiming at wider release. They are only targeting industrial users for the time being, and there aren't any indications when it'll even be available for sale.