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[DeepEnigma]

103 pages in...and i still dont get the smartphone comparisons,or TV's for that matter

Me neither.

Add me to that list.

Not upscale but up-rendering

This would make more sense. I can see them announce a Slim at E3 with this already included at launch, and also updated in the firmware for existing owners.

 

[Saty]

That doesn't make sense though. I can't see them releasing upgraded hardware then going "oh but it doesn't work on these games, it only works on these ones" "these games might not work on the old ps4/xbox one, only new models" then saying "Oh and on the games it does work on, it'll only work on these certain modes, not the full game".

Then those that do buy the upgraded consoles complain because they're being intentionally held back for parity, I mean it already happens with PS4/Xbox one/Last gen. It comes to a point where there'd be no point releasing upgrading hardware and they might aswell jump into next gen instead, and restricting it like you're claiming is way past that line in my opinion. I really can't see them making SP 4k then once you hop into MP it's toned down to 1080p, 900p or even 720p. There's a gigantic difference between 1080p down to 900p and 4k down to 900p.

In addition when has something like that ever happened? Phones, Tablets, and PC gaming the improvements are across the board not in specific areas of games/apps on upgraded hardware, why would consoles be any different in this regard? It'd be much easier to just copy how it works on PC since that's more or less the route they'll be going at that point.

I don't get. What do you want? You are worried about people playing on the new PS4 having an edge in MP games because of better performance. I gave a solution.
Now you're are complaining that there won't be games exclusive for the new PS4? Make up your mind.

The new PS4 isn't about using the hardware to make games that aren't possible on the current PS4 (because then people like you will be going nuts about fragmentation and being forced to buy the new one).
The new PS4 is about giving better performance and graphics for the same game library. You care for 1080P 60fps and the asking price suits you? Great, go for it. You're happy with your current PS4 and the games are going to continue to perform as good as can? Awesome, keep playing that. Do you predominately play online games against others? Then you wouldn't get much of the new PS4 so you might as well keep using your current one. Great.

Everything is going to be out in the open. You will know what the stronger PS4 gives you. You will know what it won't. You will know what to expect. If you decide the benefits are worth the price then great. If you decide it doesn't, also great.

 

[ironcreed]

Oh, the classic "What's the matter? Just bend over" conniving attitude. And you dare calling them insecure?

LOL, pardon? Who is forcing you to bend over? You do not have to buy the new system. PS4 is not being abandoned.

And yes, the only way you would feel as if you were being 'forced' to upgrade is if you were insecure about others having the new system while you don't. Because in reality, you are not being forced to do shit and the PS4 will continue to be just as good as it was ever going to be.

 

[diffusionx]

I mean I kind of get your point, but I really don't think this changes because 4.5 exists. Nobody HAS to upgrade, they can play the same games. The only difference is, some people that were willing to fork over more money are having better performance and 4k.

I mean I want this. I have a 4k tv. If somebody doesn't want this cool. Pretend it doesn't exist if you must. Why do people want others to not enjoy something because they don't want it.

Yea. The games will be targeted to PS4 still. And nowadays you can take a PC game and fiddle with the settings until they match the console game - PS4 version of game X is the PC version with high textures, medium shadows, etc. So it's probably not too much more complicated than having different setting profiles for PS4 and PS4.5.

Yes, you can have your 4K PS4 games, but if they apply this concept going forward, everyone get screw, because we'll be stuck with cross gen game forever.

Is this so bad? That people can enjoy games for longer? I imagine at some point developers will ditch older hardware past a certain point, similar to how mobile games target N past generations of phones.

 

[eot]

Even as a PC gamer who barely touches his PS4 I don't like this idea.

 

[pachura]

Wouldn't PS4K simply be a PS4 + 4K BluRay support + 4K HDMI output + HD-to-4K upscaler?

 

[wapplew]

Is this so bad? That people can enjoy games for longer? I imagine at some point developers will ditch older hardware past a certain point, similar to how mobile games target N past generations of phones.

Cross gen is bad, yes, there is cut off old hardware but newest hardware will never get the best they could because they always need to support atleast 2 iterations of hardware, even first party can't make exclusive for latest hardware.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I think the biggest gain going forward beyond any theoretical PS4.5 is that resolution stops being increased exponentially. It is the single biggest killer of game performance.

I really can't see a case in gaming or TV for ever going beyond 4k in future (it could be argued 1080P is enough now with extra processing going toward performance, effects and image quality)

It will be interesting whether this PS4.5 is just a 4k compatible/internal VR breakout box features upgrade or a more substantial APU upgrade. I wonder what sort of performance could fit in a late 16' early 17' Zen/Polaris chip up to 348mm2?

The timing of this couldn't be worse for me as I've just ordered new parts for a PC..luckily I've only ordered the MB/RAM/PSU and was dithering on whether to go i3 or i5. Think I'l play it safe and go i3 now and see if this PS4.5 is a power upgrade.

 

[The Artisan]

If it bothers you that bad, then I don't know what to tell you, man.

There's nothing else to really say bro, but it's clear that I'm not the only one who's really upset about this, you know? A lot of don't think it's a good idea.

All I know is that your PS4 will still get all of the games and PS4 will still be just as capable as it is now. If others want to go out and fork over even more money for an upgraded system already, then more power to them. I am just not ready for that yet and will thankfully be able to continue getting life out these systems like I originally planned to.

It won't settle with me knowing that the graphics I'm playing on could be much better if I had the better Ps4 to play it on. Just, the sound of that is so wrong to me, you know?

 

[wonderful103]

There's nothing else to really say bro, but it's clear that I'm not the only one who's really upset about this, you know? A lot of don't think it's a good idea.It won't settle with me knowing that the graphics I'm playing on could be much better if I had the better Ps4 to play it on. Just, the sound of that is so wrong to me, you know?

Have you heard of this thing called a PC? It already plays most of these games better. It has since launch and will forever continue to do so

 

[rjinaz]

Yes, you can have your 4K PS4 games, but if they apply this concept going forward, everyone get screw, because we'll be stuck with cross gen game forever.

I guess that's a fair point. But, I don't know, one upgrade per gen seems like something that doesn't go overboard, allows people to stick with the platform while technology is quickly advancing, and also extends the generation of the system for a couple of years, say 7 years before PS5 comes out. Not sure if I would rather have a PS4.5 in a year or a PS5 in 2-3 years because they both seem like alright options to me except with the PS5 people are more forced to upgrade and there will be exclusive games.

 

[diffusionx]

Cross gen is bad, yes, there is cut off old hardware but newest hardware will never get the best they could because they always need to support atleast 2 iterations of hardware, even first party can't make exclusive for latest hardware.

I doubt there will be a 4.5, 4.6, 4.7, etc. And at some point they will cut off support. It's not like new iPhone games support the iPhone 3GS.

 

[Filthy Casual]

 

[ArtHands]

There's nothing else to really say bro, but it's clear that I'm not the only one who's really upset about this, you know? A lot of don't think it's a good idea.It won't settle with me knowing that the graphics I'm playing on could be much better if I had the better Ps4 to play it on. Just, the sound of that is so wrong to me, you know?

It is wrong to you, but its really not wrong for those who will jump in with the newer PS4 though.

 

[wapplew]

I guess that's a fair point. But, I don't know, one upgrade per gen seems like something that doesn't go overboard, allows people to stick with the platform while technology is quickly advancing, and also extends the generation of the system for a couple of years, say 7 years before PS5 comes out. Not sure if I would rather have a PS4.5 in a year or a PS5 in 2-3 years because they both seem like alright options to me except with the PS5 people are more forced to upgrade and there will be exclusive games.

I get your idea of one stop gap hardware between generations. I can accept that too if they don't promise PS4.5 can play all PS5 games.
PS4 and PS4.5 play same game, but both can't play PS5 games unless developer do cross gen port like PS4 and PS3.

 

[The Artisan]

Have you heard of this thing called a PC? It already plays most of these games better. It has since launch and will forever continue to do so

you don't have to be condescending when you respond to me. I tried PC gaming as a kid and I didn't really like it. As a console gamer, PC gaming does not concern me. I respect it, but as far as I am concerned as a consumer it s a separate but complementary market to console gaming.

It is wrong to you, but its really not wrong for those who will jump in with the newer PS4 though.

It's wrong me and obviously a ton of others in this thread...you're making it sound like I'm the only one who doesn't want this

 

[onQ123]

it's not convenient to me knowing that there's a better way to experience the game on a console.
it's not about how someone else enjoys the game. I mentioned this in the other thread. as of right now, there are others already having advantages over me with bigger TVs, maybe even 4Ktvs. that may not change the hardware of the console but that still enhances the console gaming experience.

so for me, knowing that I'm playing a game which has an existing-better version will be annoying me because it's always been the one option for playing the game I've always had.

There's nothing else to really say bro, but it's clear that I'm not the only one who's really upset about this, you know? A lot of don't think it's a good idea.It won't settle with me knowing that the graphics I'm playing on could be much better if I had the better Ps4 to play it on. Just, the sound of that is so wrong to me, you know?

That's like getting upset because a hybrid get better gas mileage than your standard car & not wanting to buy gas anymore because other cars get more out of a gallon of gas.

 

[JCreasy]

Are there any PC games that use native 4K assets?

 

[KillGore]

As long as it doesn't affect regular PS4 owners then I think it's a good idea. I could've sworn Sony released a more powerful PSP? Don't think there was any exclusive PSP game for it.

 

[DeepEnigma]

it's not convenient to me knowing that there's a better way to experience the game on a console.
it's not about how someone else enjoys the game. I mentioned this in the other thread. as of right now, there are others already having advantages over me with bigger TVs, maybe even 4Ktvs. that may not change the hardware of the console but that still enhances the console gaming experience.

so for me, knowing that I'm playing a game which has an existing-better version will be annoying me because it's always been the one option for playing the game I've always had.

Does this bother Xbox One only gamers with multiplats?

That seems like a silly reason.

 

[ArtHands]

you don't have to be condescending when you respond to me. I tried PC gaming as a kid and I didn't really like it. As a console gamer, PC gaming does not concern me. I respect it, but as far as I am concerned as a consumer it s a separate but complementary market to console gaming.
It's wrong me and obviously a ton of others in this thread...you're making it sound like I'm the only one who doesn't want this

The thing is, it is only wrong because you are not upgrading.

I mean, if you can't afford or doesn't want one, I think you should really learn to live with it.

Just like how PS3 owners wouldn't feel good that they can't play the latest PS4 games now. But hey that's how technology works. This is basically like 'if I can't experience it better, nobody should' thing.

 

[Jamaro85]

4K gaming on a console at a reasonable price doesn't seem like a real possibility and I think being able to get games to 1080p at 60 fps with higher graphics settings would be huge as it is. 4K capability for movies and less hardware intensive games would be awesome as well. It just doesn't feel like 4K gaming on a console is a real conversation right now.

 

[Windforce]

There's nothing else to really say bro, but it's clear that I'm not the only one who's really upset about this, you know? A lot of don't think it's a good idea.It won't settle with me knowing that the graphics I'm playing on could be much better if I had the better Ps4 to play it on. Just, the sound of that is so wrong to me, you know?

There are PC's out there playing games at much better settings than the PS4 (don't get me wrong I prefer playing on the consoles).

Sometimes one console will have the superior version of a port than other console (say, PS3 x 360, Xbox One x PS4), will you never play the slightly inferior version because the other console has it better? I have played ports that are considered 'trainwrecks' such as Bayonetta yet I had a fully enjoyable experience. It's not a big deal.

 

[ClearData]

People dont understand how expensive the jump to 4k is. Why skip over 1440p?

And for the artist....are they going to be designing their art asset for 4k? If so how expensive will this be for game development?

That's what has me doubting part of these rumors. Specifically the portion that says the console would be capable of playing games at 4K resolution. The GPUs on the market that can handle 4K even at just 30 fps cost as much or more than the current gen Xbox One and PS4. How much would they have to charge for an equivalent solution within a hypothetical PS4.5? $400 sounds way too low and that is mentioned in the Kotaku article.

The part of your post that I really liked is the 1440p part. Perhaps a GPU / CPU spec bump could get game content at 1440p and a higher refresh rate (perhaps 120hz or so? I've seen TV sets that have that at least) and video and picture content can be used at the 4K resolution. If they could add in a higher capacity hard drive, a better Wi-Fi network card, perhaps integrate PSVR ports, and maybe add in a SATA III interface and we are talking about a pretty compelling little machine.

If they are going to do this I firmly believe they need to offer some kind of upgrade path for current owners and it is a one time upgrade mid-gen. I don't think the yearly model Spencer described would work. It'd be too expensive in my mind.

 

[spwolf]

I get your idea of one stop gap hardware between generations. I can accept that too if they don't promise PS4.5 can play all PS5 games.
PS4 and PS4.5 play same game, but both can't play PS5 games unless developer do cross gen port like PS4 and PS3.

So you have a problem with PS4.5 which would be fully compatible with PS4, but you have no problem with them cutting of PS4 when PS5 comes out?

How does that make any sense at all?

I dont see particular reason for PS5 games not to play on PS4. They will not design crazy graphics engines anymore, that wont happen... PS5 will have continuation from PS4 and that can be "easily" supported in their tools and SDK's that developers use.

Just like you can play games on 2012 PC now, you will be able to play games on PS4.

Difference of course being that there isnt billion different configurations in PS4, PS4.5 and PS5... there would be 3, and devs already do 95% of the work needed to support all 3.

 

[Leon S. Kennedy]

Wouldn't PS4K simply be a PS4 + 4K BluRay support + 4K HDMI output + HD-to-4K upscaler?

This is probably what it is; more like a PS4.1 than a PS4.5.

During the recent interview, 4Gamer brings up the topic of Ultra HD Blu-ray and 4K Blu-ray, and asks the Executive Vice President about Sony Computer Entertainment’s thoughts on the subject, and whether we’ll have some sort of compatibility with it in this era of the PlayStation 4. “The Blu-ray disc drive that is currently installed in the PS4 is made exclusively for the Blu-ray disc player, so it cannot read the 3-layer media that is standardized by Ultra HD Blu-ray,” says Ito. “For this reason, the PlayStation 4 models that are out in the market cannot be compatible with Ultra HD Blu-ray.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/comments/41qhef/does_the_ps4_blu_ray_player_play_uhd_blu_rays/

The new PS4s will likely be able to read 3-layer blu-rays. Nothing to get excited about

 

[captjohnboyd]

Probably not going to engage much in this thread just continue to lurk while at work but I for one am extremely excited for the prospect of this. I understand the worries but I think they're unfounded. Sony has proved this gen that they're focused on the consumer as much as they can be for a Corp. and going forward I would imagine they have every intention of supporting the og PS4

As for all the negative cross gen talk I think it's too early to say if that'll be a problem. I mean if this means there's no longer "Gens" as we know them then there won't really be such a thing as cross gen. Devs can decide to target the lowest common denominator, sure, but I think we may end up seeing things change quite a bit in that regard give how quickly the nature of the industry is changing

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Holy SHIT at the moral panic in this thread. Can you people just calm down?

Likelihood is that if this is a "PS4K" and will retail for $399-$499, it'll be the following:

- An incremental upgrade to the current PS4 that is "4K Ready", and able to consume 4K media content, as well as play a very small handful of games in 4K, a bit like how PS3 has a handful of 1080p games.

- In terms of upgrades to current gen gaming, it'll at BEST, be able to play most AAA games going forward at a slightly higher resolution and framerate. For example: Battlefield 5 will run at 1080p/60fps as opposed to 900p/60fps. Assets, textures etc will remain more or less the same across both SKUs. It will be nowhere near a generational leap.

- It will NOT preclude a perpetual state of cross generation. PS5 will be a huge leap over both PS4 and "PS4K".

- There will be no "PS4K" exclusive games. Sony isn't stupid.

GAF has turned hysteria into a profession, I swear.

 

[ClearData]

So you have a problem with PS4.5 which would be fully compatible with PS4, but you have no problem with them cutting of PS4 when PS5 comes out?

How does that make any sense at all?

I dont see particular reason for PS5 games not to play on PS4. They will not design crazy graphics engines anymore, that wont happen... PS5 will have continuation from PS4 and that can be "easily" supported in their tools and SDK's that developers use.

Just like you can play games on 2012 PC now, you will be able to play games on PS4.

Difference of course being that there isnt billion different configurations in PS4, PS4.5 and PS5... there would be 3, and devs already do 95% of the work needed to support all 3.

One thing to consider is that if they keep the x86 architecture then the games should be forward compatible. Just like on a PC, which the Xbox and PS4 are in most respects other than the shared memory pool IIRC. So I think you are right and PS5 games could work on the older console. Maybe sans some of the graphical potency.

 

[Bad_Boy]

Read through the 100 pages or so and maybe you'll understand why some people including myself would be reasonably upset.

Nope, read most of the thread. Still dont see why people are upset.

If new games still work on older ps4.... then what is the problem?

 

[wapplew]

So you have a problem with PS4.5 which would be fully compatible with PS4, but you have no problem with them cutting of PS4 when PS5 comes out?

How does that make any sense at all?

I dont see particular reason for PS5 games not to play on PS4. They will not design crazy graphics engines anymore, that wont happen... PS5 will have continuation from PS4 and that can be "easily" supported in their tools and SDK's that developers use.

Just like you can play games on 2012 PC now, you will be able to play games on PS4.

Difference of course being that there isnt billion different configurations in PS4, PS4.5 and PS5... there would be 3, and devs already do 95% of the work needed to support all 3.

Like I said, I want developer target the best hardware and squeeze every drop of it and deliver 100% the hardware can offer.
I don't want to live in a world where first party cannot make exclusive PS5 games because they have to make sure PS4 can run them.

 

[gameunit]

Could it be an early april fools joke perhaps ?

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

I don't want to live in a world where first party cannot make exclusive PS5 games because they have to make sure PS4 can run them.

This is such a stretch. That isn't going to happen.

 

[AmuroRX]

4K gaming on a console at a reasonable price doesn't seem like a real possibility and I think being able to get games to 1080p at 60 fps with higher graphics settings would be huge as it is. 4K capability for movies and less hardware intensive games would be awesome as well. It just doesn't feel like 4K gaming on a console is a real conversation right now.

It's beyond just a real conversation...the tech just isn't even there. The low voltage the apu/gpu must run is ridiculously low and no hardware at present or in the near future will allow that type of performance in such a small and low power form factor.

Now this is just regarding mainstream modern games. If you want me to believe journey, firewatch, and the witness might run at 4k then yes I'm willing to believe that. When we are talking about games like Fallout 4, Witcher 3, Assassin's Creed Unit and Far Cry 4 then the hardware/tech just isn't there to produce such performance. Currently, even the most high end of pc hardware can barely run some of these games @ 4k30 and we're talking about hardware like an recent i7 paired with a Nvidia Titan Z.

I implore everyone to handle your hype with discretion. They may call it a ps4k, but in reality what they're saying is that the ps4 is now capable of outputting 4k video and perhaps some upscaling for lower graphically intensive games.

Now this doesn't mean i'm not excited. For ps4VR to have a good chance this sort of half step upgrade is necessary. The current ps4 hardware just can't do it alone. I'm all for VR!

 

[Sky Chief]

I remember when Cerny and Kojima were on tour I felt like Cerny was updating the WWS on PS5 but I guess it was this. Also, this should extend the life of the "PS4" so now Kojima Productions making a new game from scratch for this "console generation" makes sense.

 

[Montresor]

So Microsoft + Sony are both working on PS4.5/Xbox1.5? Or am I misunderstanding?

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

Could it be an early april fools joke perhaps ?

Lol

People really are in denial here. Why do you think consoles moved to more PC like architecture to begin with?

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Wouldn't PS4K simply be a PS4 + 4K BluRay support + 4K HDMI output + HD-to-4K upscaler?

Watch it be this and looking back at this thread it will be embarrassing.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Watch it be this and looking back at this thread it will be embarrassing.

That's exactly what it's going to be. This thread is ridiculous.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

In the end, if both SKU's play the same games, it's not really splitting the userbase because one has a slightly better framerate or resolution or plays 4k movies.

 

[Trup1aya]

Yes, you can have your 4K PS4 games, but if they apply this concept going forward, everyone get screw, because we'll be stuck with cross gen game forever.

But it's not "cross gen forever". It's two consoles, in the same gen, playing the exact same games, until the next true gen begins..

 

[MaDKaT]

Wouldn't PS4K simply be a PS4 + 4K BluRay support + 4K HDMI output + HD-to-4K upscaler?

That is what Im hoping it actually is. They did something similar with the PS2 and added progressive scan DVD playback support. I believe some games could also leverage progressive scan as well.

Personally, I buy console knowing that I will get consistent performance for an entire generation. All games run exactly the same on the hardware. Im all for hardware advances every 5 or so but would feel pretty shafted if turns out this rumored unit is going to significantly improve my current and future games compared to my launch unit. I need clarification, this rumor has put a stop to me jumping into PSVR and honestly has me thinking about getting out of consoles entirely. I already have enough hardware I update fairly often and if consoles are going to go this route, I will just save my money and upgrade my PC as needed.

 

[dark10x]

So a Titan or 980Ti is not capable of running most PS4 games in 4K 30fps?

Think about what you're saying. You're talking about the most expensive gaming graphics cards available and then you talk about 30fps. That's exactly my point.

If it takes a card like a Titan X or 980Ti to hit 30 fps at 4K (and with some games, it's not even going to be a steady 30fps), how do you think a console would fare? There's no way they could include hardware even close to that powerful.

If you're talking about "at PS4 settings" then you would be doing better, but I still think the hardware requirements to hit 4K are beyond what you could put in a console for a reasonable price.

 

[AmuroRX]

Wouldn't PS4K simply be a PS4 + 4K BluRay support + 4K HDMI output + HD-to-4K upscaler?

This is pretty much what it is. If sony is serious about ps4VR they needed to internalize the processing ps4VR unit (a separate box you hook up to another console is a half ass measure). So I very much believe that this is their jab in trying to create a VR ready ps4 sku. Being able to output 2 1080p images simultaneously just wasn't possible with that separate unit or this rumored half step upgrade.

 

[wapplew]

This is such a stretch. That isn't going to happen.

Maybe a little stretch, but they have to make sure the game can work on PS4.5 at very least.

 

[ArtHands]

I guess people will be more open to this idea if they call it PS5 instead of PS4.5 uh.

 

[Kyzer]

Ok if this is real its probably just slim/revision with a beefed up GPU to run PSVR games better and 4k streaming/blu ray support.

We are not getting 4k games. That would not be PS4.5

 

[MaDKaT]

I guess people will be more open to this idea if they call it PS5 instead of PS4.5 uh.

and it comes out in 2-3 more years

 

[AmuroRX]

Think about what you're saying. You're talking about the most expensive gaming graphics cards available and then you talk about 30fps. That's exactly my point.

If it takes a card like a Titan X or 980Ti to hit 30 fps at 4K (and with some games, it's not even going to be a steady 30fps), how do you think a console would fare? There's no way they could include hardware even close to that powerful.

If you're talking about "at PS4 settings" then you would be doing better, but I still think the hardware requirements to hit 4K are beyond what you could put in a console for a reasonable price.

It's beyond just a price issue, we are also talking about hardware/technology issue. There is nothing being manufactured at this moment or in the next year that can give us this sort of performance on mainstream graphically intensive games in a small lower powered form factor.

The tech doesn't exist

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

People dont understand how expensive the jump to 4k is. Why skip over 1440p?

And for the artist....are they going to be designing their art asset for 4k? If so how expensive will this be for game development?

I think 1440p, or "1620p" rendered then upscaled to 4K would look wonderful to most people, and is much more realistic than actual 4K games.