There's a lot wrong with the games. For sure. And a lot of the stuff I really like is "intangible." I can't say why. There's just a feeling. I just think there have been a lot of changes since GT4 that don't get all that much, like, credit is maybe the word I'd use. Like Polyphony is sitting on their ass doing nothing. Maybe they're not doing enough, but they've done a lot!
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Gran Turismo Sport Unveiling live stream discussion (incl. FIA Championship gameplay)
- Thread starter bombshell
- Start date
Doctor_Thomas
Member
I definitely find a lot of the criticsm against GT to be odd, because it's not criticism of the game, as such, it's criticism that it's not doing what other games... but, I'd argue that other games aren't doing what GT is doing because they're different games.
Forza is OK, but it never really clicked with me because I always found it to be a less engaging experience than GT.... but that's OK, because I am not being forced to buy Forza.
Forza is OK, but it never really clicked with me because I always found it to be a less engaging experience than GT.... but that's OK, because I am not being forced to buy Forza.
I think, most of us "expect" PD to push the genre further with each game they release. But as others have said, PD seem to exist within a bubble where there is no competition. And competition is what pushes developers to try harder.
Kaz has been hailed as a perfectionist, but either he isnt, or he simply doesnt care about advancements other games in the genre have made, because I think theres no way he can play Driveclub hear the engine noises and say.. "meh, ours are good enough".
MiniBossBattle
Member
My coworkers surprised they didn't add ambient particulates or more layers of grime or mirage effects especially on hot oval Tarmac.
TylerDurden4321
Member
Like Saladine pointed out already, it's not just that the engine sounds in GT had problems capturing the individuality of an engine sound plus exhaust (engine layout, cylinder count and displacement, torque curve, turbo, supercharger and type etc.)[btw. the smaller and high-revving V8s were a lot closer to acceptable in GT 5 and 6), it's also that especially in the race cars you need good drive-line sound modeling. Example from Raceroom:
https://youtu.be/6IviwLAmnD0
Crayon
Member
Here's a consideration, tho:
Sometimes I'm in this mood where I feel like I need a more demanding sim and there seems to be a slew of games that can do that better.
But sometimes I just want Gran Turimo... Easy to pick up and play. Therapeutic, even. Has that dream-like detached observer quality. Hand-waves major driving mistakes and just lets you forget about them.
Maybe there's a reason GT is the most popular? Maybe, all those great elements that competing sims have are just too much for the mainstream and therefore inappropriate for GT? Maybe people who are sick of GT should just accept that they are ready for a different kind of sim and leave gt behind peacefully?
Crayon
Member
Not seen any Super GT or JGTC yet, imagine we will see them at TGS at the latest? You can always throw a Castrol Livery on the FT1!
Aluminum if for fucking pop cans. I need a 3sgte.
That's the thing GT will always be the accessible sim-lite kinda thing, it has to be, it is too popular.
I love Assetto Corsa but I can't play it with my friends as they aren't good enough to genuinely race at a level where it is fun. With GT we can all enjoy it and it is still close enough to the sims that it is a challenge.
Haha, true, I am sure it will be in GT7, whether it is in Sport I don't know, I hope it is for traditions sake!
I love Assetto Corsa but I can't play it with my friends as they aren't good enough to genuinely race at a level where it is fun. With GT we can all enjoy it and it is still close enough to the sims that it is a challenge.
Haha, true, I am sure it will be in GT7, whether it is in Sport I don't know, I hope it is for traditions sake!
Crayon
Member
I was referring to the engine specifically. I agree that gt either omits certain sounds completly (clunks, squeeks, thumps), mixes them down way too much (Exhaust), and in some cases gives a weird impressionistic gt version (tire sqeal, turbo inlet). The sound in general is apparently not even set up with realism in mind. Which is weird.
The Engines, tho... Gt's not the best but not really the biggest problem with the sound, I'd say.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
AC isn't so difficult either so I'm not sure what you mean.
It isn't for me, for my friends being consistent over a longer race isn't feasible. It is a hard game for the vast majority. All racing games are hard for the vast majority to be fair.
Crayon
Member
I's true. GT/Forza are the most forgiving and most people jumping in still have problems understanding that there's hard limits on what your car can do and things like that. I have not sampled most of these competing games but I do have PCars and I'd say it would be way harder for someone with a no sim experience than either of the two major flagship games. From what I've seen, Assetto Corsa would be somewhat harder, as well.
Lion Heart
Banned
UI is awesome. I love the little details like how the map is right below the gear indicator now and it looks very clean during racing. Showing the speed above the drivers car is also really intuitive and genius. I'd like to be able to disable the drivers on the left side though.
Anyway its all so clean and beautiful
Anyway its all so clean and beautiful
squarealex
Member
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
So, this is Willow Springs after all an not some "scapes" location. I assumed before that this is some race track according to this shots below. Some photomode and background generated with the game engine in GTS and DC.
Repost :
GTS models are second to none. They need more cleaning up on the environments though.
Is it true DC only allows 6 cars?
They need to use a good AA on GTS ( and of course general polishing). We 'll see a new build at E3 i think... Hope there will be improvements.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Really shows how outdated GT6 is.
SolidSnakex
Member
TheAdmiester
Member
The main difference I can see in those pictures is that it looks much more like they've simulated the atmosphere of Earth rather than just having a skybox. The distant hills are foggier/hazier. That alone makes a huge difference, looks much better.
MrOogieBoogie
BioShock Infinite is like playing some homeless guy's vivid imagination
Agreed.
I said, "Wow."
Seriously, that comparison video was great. Loves like a truly believable location (GTS).
Goldrusher
Member
The road surface seems to be missing its "dirt layer".
funkystudent
Member
Its got a bunch of enhancements but nothing earth shattering.
Textures are higher res and filtering is improved.
Lighting and shadows are a bit more refined and has SSAO but its still clearly the GT6 lighting model.
LOD / pop in on the grass seems better
Basically what I would have expected from that rumoured GT6 remaster a few years ago. Not exactly hacking it for a full new game 3 years later though.
Also I noticed you dont see other cars in the reflections of your car still. Every other racing game this gen does that now so its a bummer GT doesn't. (another thing on the list I guess)
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Sony should provide all their studio's with PD's lighting engine
12 max.
backbreaker65
Banned
Dude this game is also VR from the ground up not a patch. Y'all kill me with these dismissive statements. When I see all the detail in this game based on VR and little ole PS4 this game is pushing above it's weight class.
I think the problem arises from when GT started, it was both accessible and also the most realistic sim available to console owners. Now that its competitors have leaped ahead, half of the (very vocal) GT audience wants Kaz to catch up while the other half is fine with how it is. Probably time for the disappointed half to accept that GT will never be what they want it to be.
Crayon
Member
Agreed except that I don't know if we are talking about halves, here. We might be talking 20%. Maybe 5%.
Why make the game look bad for 90% of people just so you can have it running smoothly for the 10% who buy PSVR?
There's no logic in using "But PSVR!" as an excuse on why the game don't impress in some areas.
Surely they can make it look better and downgrade it for VR use?
Yeah, I don't believe it's VR that's holding the game back, but simply lack of being complete which is. As you mentioned, they will probably have a scaled back config.
backbreaker65
Banned
You probably one of those dudes who was never going to buy the game anyway, I'm not using VR as an excuse. I'm saying the game looks good to me and knowing it's going above and beyond any console racer because of VR. Logically speaking those 10% of us Playing in VR welcome PD's dumb logic.
What reflection are you talking about is there footage? I haven't seen any footage that shows missing reflections present in other games.
Yes, the sky and horizon are properly lit.
funkystudent
Member
Here is a screenshot from Forza's hood cam. You can clearly see the other cars in the reflection. In GT you dont.
Granted Forza also uses a cheap screen space technique so even the hud shows up in the reflection but its still better then having a reflection that doesn't match the real world IMO. Not sure what Driveclub or Project Cars do but in those games you also still see cars in your cars reflections.
Now here is a old crappy pic of GT6 but basically GTS still does this.
Only the track is reflected but not the cars.
People have been making excuses for Gran Turismo's short comings and questionable priorities for damn near a decade now.
Its time to wake up, let go and call this spade a spade.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
Wow, the IQ and color accuracy look miles better in GTS.
get2sammyb
Member
The comparison is quite eye-opening. It looks lightyears better than GT6, but in ways that you do need the side by side to appreciate.
GHG
Gold Member
Here is a screenshot from Forza's hood cam. You can clearly see the other cars in the reflection. In GT you dont.
Granted Forza also uses a cheap screen space technique so even the hud shows up in the reflection but its still better then having a reflection that doesn't match the real world IMO. Not sure what Driveclub or Project Cars do but in those games you also still see cars in your cars reflections.
Now here is a old crappy pic of GT6 but basically GTS still does this.
Only the track is reflected but not the cars.
People have been making excuses for Gran Turismo's short comings and questionable priorities for damn near a decade now.
Its time to wake up, let go and call this spade a spade.
Project Cars uses cube map reflections FYI.
But these are hugely toned down (especially in wet weather scenarios) on consoles as while its more accurate, its quite an intensive technique.
What? So you want GT forever stuck in GT5/6 land, and not to develop it's sense of realism and immersion for the player? Just a dead eyed competent driving game that goes nowhere from that point?
GT games handle really well (and they have mastered controller handling for sims which others can't quite seem to get right) but they're treading water in terms of the experience they relate to the player through all the other elements that make up a racing game.
Watch a real live professional race in GT3 or touring cars, watch it, hear it. Go to a real race and see these cars in the flesh (I have). See the movement of the cars, the "AI" of the competition, the raw sound, the on board cameras making you really feel the sense of "OH SHIIIIIT" going at 180mph feels like. Then go and play the equivalent experience in a GT game. It is dull as fuck. Does not translate anything of that experience to you the player, other than their great handling model. Every other aspect falls behind. Go and listen to Dirt Rally, or some of the better PC sims, it's at least trying to recreate the real thing. If you don't want to recreate that I'm not sure what you're taking out of the game, lol.
EDIT: Had to add, I've seen people talk about GT starting off as an accessible sim and now others have overtaken it and just to accept that. GT and Yamauchi are the ones pushing GT Academy, transforming game players into true racing drivers, and GT Sport is a huge leap in that direction.... so surely the game is deliberately trying to be a proper sim??? And I believe it is a proper sim. Still has more accessible handling than some others, but I don't think to the detriment of the simulation, others are just poe face about their controls.
AstroNut325
Member
I've actually been on the track at Willow Springs. Did a track day with my Kawasaki 636.
GTS looks amazingly accurate. Especially the lighting. No hot air balloons though.
Nice! I have a friend that had a press track day with Ducati there, riding top models around the track. I envy him to no end.
test_account
XP-39C²
If we're going to call this spade a spade, what is the reason for the short commings? Have PD adressed this or is it just speculation?
Crayon
Member
Well first off, I don't want or expect GT to be stuck like 6. Every gt has, I think for the most part improved on it's predecessor with the possible exception of gt2, which added alot of crap (some great crap!) on top of gt1 with out much improvement to the core and some notable downgrades.
And yes, I've gone out to soprts cars races when they come around the tracks up here. And no game can really replicate the sounds. Your sounds system just can't do it. The smell, too.
GT is a fun fantasy and just maybe (im honestly not sure) doesn't need to chase features of games that only nip at it's heels in terms of commercial success. So yeah, if you go to the races and you want a game that's more like the real thing that you experienced first hand then perhaps you are better served with some of the other games that do just that?
Where I agree with you heartily is that fact that PD seem to be trying to sell this as some authentic competitive race experience when it appears to be the same suicidal mad dash as gt6 when played competitively. Then again they've been showing it so poorly that maybe they really did implement more demanding aspects such as the flag system and then failed to show them off? My concern for this game is that they may have taken a turn in this competitive simulator direction when the game is still more suited for casual play.
Gouda Jouji
Member
Was this video posted?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6c3ovk0h6M
Am I crazy or are the tyre sounds different?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6c3ovk0h6M
Am I crazy or are the tyre sounds different?
No, I struggle to understand how anybody could really believe that having the HUD reflected in the cars is an improvement over the way that Gran Tursismo handles reflections. You have numbers moving around on the screen that don't exist in the game world and because the whole point of a HUD is that it's clear to see means the reflections just as obvious.
It's far from perfect in Gran Turismo but for me it really is a case of less is more here.
The hood reflections in Forza are terrible.
There are some slight reflections in the windshield after all.
There are some slight reflections in the windshield after all.