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[ShadowFox08]

Question: Even with the majority of the blue ocean market going to mobile by the time the Wii was done, do you guys think it was ever possible for the Wii U to sell a 100 million if they changed a few things?

Like If Nintendo had

-a CPU that was on par with Xbox 360 or better(with same RAM and GPU),
-was priced at $250 with the gamepad and 60GB HDD
-had the Wii U pro controller at launch(another bundle but with the pro controller and a game at $300 like nintendoland),
name was Wii 2
-Wii Sports Club was as available at launch and had all the sports instead of that microtransaction bullshit
would it have been possible? What do you guys think is needed for Nintendo to get close to a 100 million with the Wii U?

 

[ArtHands]

How dumb it is depends on how early they made that projection. Before or around E3 2011 would've been one thing.

Not "they". It is literally one person inside Nintendo.

 

[ShadowFox08]

Not "they". It is literally one person inside Nintendo.

Spoiler

WHy do I have this feeling it was Iwata or Miyamoto or some other well known higher up?

If that guy was in charge of pricing, the Wii U name, or the shitty cpu, that guy should be fired... ._.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Those two failures really underscore the enormous differences in the two companies. If the Wii U had sold 90 million units but cost Nintendo essentially all of their previous profits they would be out of business, since their core business is video games. Sony can afford to take that hit in order to preserve their brand and third party relations because they have billions in other assets to fall back on.

This is why Nintendo can never succeed by directly competing with Sony and MS and why people should stop expecting them to and then getting disappointed when they don't. Nintendo hasn't changed that much since the days of the SNES, rather the market and the competition has (for better or for worse).

Nintendo had billions they could have used from Wii and 3DS .
When Sony was losing billions on PS3 most parts of the company was also losing money .
They were is very bad spot .
Fact is Nintendo did nothing to help Wii U when things were getting bad .

 

[MuchoMalo]

Question: Even with the majority of the blue ocean market going to mobile by the time the Wii was done, do you guys think it was ever possible for the Wii U to sell a 100 million if they changed a few things?

Like If Nintendo had

-a CPU that was on par with Xbox 360 or better(with same RAM and GPU),
-was priced at $250 with the gamepad and 60GB HDD
-had the Wii U pro controller at launch(another bundle but with the pro controller and a game at $300 like nintendoland),
name was Wii 2
-Wii Sports Club was as available at launch and had all the sports instead of that microtransaction bullshit
would it have been possible? What do you guys think is needed for Nintendo to get close to a 100 million with the Wii U?

No, but with proper marketing 30-40 million could have happened.

 

[Bear Force One]

Nintendo thought they would reach a 100 million with last gen hardware and an input controller that looks a Fisher-Price My First Tablet?

Do they even HAVE a market research department? It's one of their worst corporate weaknesses, and that's saying a lot for modern day Nintendo.

 

[ShadowFox08]

No, but with proper marketing 30-40 million could have happened.

Proper marketing meaning "Wii 2," ammiright? Are you taking everything i mentioned into account?

 

[jroc74]

Not gonna lie, when it was first revealed I thought they had another hit on their hands. I thought the Gamepad was something different in a good way.

Of course all this is before I started paying attention to the specs of these consoles. Didnt really do that until the PS4, XBO.

 

[Father_Brain]

Actually I think they could sit at a Wii U-like install base no matter what hardware they put out, for a long time, considering how strong their IPs always have been and still are, and how highly-regarded their software is generally. Even if their hardware doesn't sell great, like the Wii U, the software does.

That presumes that the audience willing to pay $200-300 for hardware that exists almost entirely for Nintendo first-party IP is stable rather than shrinking, for which the current generation doesn't offer much in the way of evidence.

 

[MuchoMalo]

Proper marketing meaning "Wii 2," ammiright? Are you taking everything i mentioned into account?

That's definitely one part of it, but there were more issues than the name.

 

[Malakai]

Yeah I agree, but i think its ultimatley a moot point. Financially, sure, but in reality it will only take another, if not two more Wii U scenarios for investors to be out for blood.

Nintendo can't weather anymore Wii U level failures and expect to come out unscathed.Their hardware business' long term prospects are in grave danger. They know this.

If that was the case then why aren't Sony investor aren't out for blood now? Sony damn near have 120 Billion dollars in liabilities yet that is never brought up in these Nintendo vs
Sony profitability debates. Heck, as the end of the most recent fiscal year Sony "Current Liabilities" were greater than it's "Current Assets".

 

[Poetic.Injustice]

If that was the case then why aren't Sony investor aren't out for blood now? Sony damn near have 120 Billion dollars in liabilities yet that is never brought up in these Nintendo vs
Sony profitability debates. Heck, as the end of the most recent fiscal year Sony "Current Liabilities" were greater than it's "Current Assets".

They have been out for blood before.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-05-14-sonys-largest-investor-calls-for-break-up

 

[MuchoMalo]

If that was the case then why aren't Sony investor aren't out for blood now? Sony damn near have 120 Billion dollars in liabilities yet that is never brought up in these Nintendo vs
Sony profitability debates. Heck, as the end of the most recent fiscal year Sony "Current Liabilities" were greater than it's "Current Assets".

Wait, "current?" Uh... That's really bad...

 

[gamechanger87]

If that was the case then why aren't Sony investor aren't out for blood now? Sony damn near have 120 Billion dollars in liabilities yet that is never brought up in these Nintendo vs
Sony profitability debates. Heck, as the end of the most recent fiscal year Sony "Current Liabilities" were greater than it's "Current Assets".

I don't think finance is your strong suit. Current Liabilities exceeding Current Assets (Negative Workikg Capital) is not a bad thing if you can manage it. If you can manage it negative working capital can be great as its all about cash. Nothing like receiving payment from customers in 20 days and paying your suppliers in 30.

Sony's NWC position is not a problem. All current means is due within a year.

 

[Fredrik]

I thought that too, until I saw the performance in the first 360-PS3-WiiU multiplat, the dream was dead after that.

I honestly think NX will fail to reach the sales target too unless it's at the very top of consoles specs-wise. I think they need to have by far the best console version of popular multiplats before Xbox and Playstation owners would even start thinking about playing those games outside of Xbox Live and Playstation Network.

Personally I'll be there day 1 no matter what though but Nintendo can't survive on just people like myself.

 

[Malakai]

I don't think finance is your strong suit. Current Liabilities exceeding Current Assets (Negative Workikg Capital) is not a bad thing if you can manage it. If you can manage it negative working capital can be great as its all about cash. Nothing like receiving payment from customers in 20 days and paying your suppliers in 30.

Sony's NWC position is not a problem. All current means is due within a year.

I just read up on Current Assets vs Current Liabilities on when glancing at Sony and Nintendo's balance sheet. I will admit that I'm ignorance on finance. However, this Nintendo is freaking doom stuff get completely out of hand, especially when people like to dismiss that fact that Nintendo is turning a profit.

 

[malboroking]

I just read up on Current Assets vs Current Liabilities on when glancing at Sony and Nintendo's balance sheet. I will admit that I'm ignorance on finance. However, this Nintendo is freaking doom stuff get completely out of hand, especially when people like to dismiss that fact that Nintendo is turning a profit.

Didn't Nintendo record it's first loss ever either last year or the year before? Nintendo will be fine, even if they have to get out of the hardware business, they have the most recognizable gaming IPs out there. The problem is shareholders like to see growth, and Nintendo's revenue is down and their market share is way down from the Wii era. I haven't seen an it prints money gift in years. That my indicator for Nintendo success.

 

[Acquiescence]

They can still reach that milestone, it's just gonna take a looooooooooot of Mario games.

 

[Bioshocker]

Thought this was interesting from the shareholder meeting.

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/stock/meeting/160629qa/03.html

And that was what they planned for, manufacturing and stocking upp Wii U consoles like crazy. They projected to sell 5,5 million consoles until March 2013. And they just didn't sell. Not until 2014 Nintendo started to get more realistic about sales for the system.

 

[Wagram]

I know the common narrative is that the Wii brand was dead when Wii U launched.

Sales wise it completely fell off a cliff. It wasn't like the PS2 where it had a long send off of relatively stable, but dwindling sales. It completely stopped as the target audience moved on.

 

[1st Course]

First mistake they made was going with the Wii brand.

By the the time the Wii U released, the Wii was basically dead and most users abandon it. It became a toxic name and probably soured a good deal of people on the company for good.

 

[jroc74]

Sales wise it completely fell off a cliff. It wasn't like the PS2 where it had a long send off of relatively stable, but dwindling sales. It completely stopped as the target audience moved on.

Even if you compare it to PS3, 360 those 2 had longer legs than the Wii.

 

[DocSeuss]

Not "they". It is literally one person inside Nintendo.

We can assume it was many people within Nintendo because the company stocked up on WiiU's like it was going to sell 100 million consoles. Its first year projections were absolutely insane. So it wasn't just one person, it was Nintendo, absolutely and utterly.

 

[Malakai]

Even if you compare it to PS3, 360 those 2 had longer legs than the Wii.

Considering Nintendo was carrying the Wii alone vs the whole industry backing the PS3 and Xbox 360, the sub and/or sometimes 720p systems should have had even longer legs than what they had. In four years time the Wii was over 80 million sold.

 

[AzaK]

I just can't leave this thread alone. To really think that Nintendo thought they would sell 100 million units is some sort of batshit craziness. I wonder what metrics and basis they made those projections on. I can't believe a company makes projections like that on "Oh well our last console sold 100 million so this will".

Would be really interesting to see the figures because after the App Store came along, none in their right mind would think that casual Wii gaming would be a thing again.

This is some Blackberry and Nokia level shit.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

If that was the case then why aren't Sony investor aren't out for blood now? Sony damn near have 120 Billion dollars in liabilities yet that is never brought up in these Nintendo vs
Sony profitability debates. Heck, as the end of the most recent fiscal year Sony "Current Liabilities" were greater than it's "Current Assets".

I'm talking about videogames specifically, am I not? And right now, PlayStation is killing it. I can't say the same for the rest of the company, and I'm not going to pretend to know the politics of what's happening at Sony at out of the gaming division, but investors have no reason to be up in arms about how SCIE is running things. They do have a reason to be up in arms about the way Nintendo is.

 

[Bioshocker]

I just can't leave this thread alone. To really think that Nintendo thought they would sell 100 million units is some sort of batshit craziness. I wonder what metrics and basis they made those projections on. I can't believe a company makes projections like that on "Oh well our last console sold 100 million so this will".

Not just that. I think Nintendo were convinced that they in the Gamepad had the new Wii remote and that Nintendoland would be the new Wii Sports. Everything points to that, and that is exactly how Reggie presented it at E3. They thought they were in a perfect position. The new Xbox and PlayStation had not yet been revealed, Nintendo were high on themselves after the amazing success with both Wii and DS. They're not the first company to let their success get to them, and certainly not the last.

 

[RoKKeR]

Funniest headline of the year.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

The fact that nothing has been revealed means that they've learned from one of the big Wii U mistakes at least, but the fact that it was announced a year ago negated that. Wii U was revealed too early and had seemingly more impressive specs at the reveal than it did at release. By waiting until close to the start of manufacturing, the hype period will be shorter and more focused, and the hype will be based on what we'll actually get instead of what they hope to do.

Unfortunately, Nintendo's marketing team has been getting worse and worse so it might not even matter. They want to appeal to everyone by only advertising to young children, and they don't see the flaw in that logic.



Well, it remains to be seen if that means that he knows what will sell. Insiders haven't been giving good news...

Do you ever read what you post and go "Yeah, this is a smart thing to say."

Nintendo is fine. They'll be fine for at least the next decade worst case scenario.

 

[Milly Osworth]

NX is projected to sell 200 million to make up for the missed target.

 

[BarringGaffner]

The Wii U has to be one of the biggest business fuck ups of all time.

Seriously, what the hell were they thinking? Their marketing team should have been cleaned out after that release. Terrible.

With the NX they are now in the tough position of also convincing a lot of people that felt completely ripped off by the Wii U... me being one of them. It will take a miracle for me to give Nintendo another dime (after Zelda Wii U... ahem)

 

[TatteredHat]

In an internal sales representative meeting, someone projected that we would sell close to 100 million Wii U systems worldwide.

And that someone... was Albert Einstein.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

The Wii U has to be one of the biggest business fuck ups of all time.

Seriously, what the hell were they thinking? Their marketing team should have been cleaned out after that release. Terrible.

They became complacent and lived in their own parallel universe. This is why I don't give Nintendo the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the NX.

They better deliver this time.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Not just that. I think Nintendo were convinced that they in the Gamepad had the new Wii remote and that Nintendoland would be the new Wii Sports. Everything points to that, and that is exactly how Reggie presented it at E3. They thought they were in a perfect position. The new Xbox and PlayStation had not yet been revealed, Nintendo were high on themselves after the amazing success with both Wii and DS. They're not the first company to let their success get to them, and certainly not the last.

It is how they reacted to the Wii U failing to meet expectations, after huge Wii software droughts in the year and a half or so before Wii U launched, by essentially coasting and waiting to sell their consumers a new device. They stopped believing in their own device and did the bare minimum they thought they could get away with to support the Wii U.

 

[Bioshocker]

It is how they reacted to the Wii U failing to meet expectations, after huge Wii software droughts in the year and a half or so before Wii U launched, by essentially coasting and waiting to sell their consumers a new device. They stopped believing in their own device and did the bare minimum they thought they could get away with to support the Wii U.

Going 18 months between reveal and release was a big mistake. The Wii U was cold before it even hit store shelfs. But wasn't their plan originally to launch earlier than November 2012?

The crazy sales projections probably resulted in them having millions of Wii U's in stock which they couldn't sell. Production must have stopped in 2013. They could have re-launched the console, got rid of the Gamepad and cut the price, but it would have been an expensive move. Maybe they simply thought the system was such a fuck-up that whatever they did, wouldn't help save it from disaster. After all, selling 20 million or selling 15 million, does it matter?

What I think they should have done, though, is to get more second-party games, i.e. finance other developers to create games for the system. I also expected more remakes, to be honest.

 

[goomba]

Who would have thought a next gen Wii without a next gen Wii remote to go with it was a good idea.

 

[Crayolan]

I wasn't expecting the colossal sales failure Wii U turned out to be but you'd have to be insane to project 100m.

 

[legend166]

It's pretty worrying if they can't see the fundamental problems of the Wii U and instead blame it on marketing and messaging.

At the very least, they followed up a console that was incredibly successful at encouraging local multiplayer with a console they had as its main novelty could only be used by one person at a time. I mean what a disaster.

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

In an internal sales representative meeting, someone projected that we would sell close to 100 million Wii U systems worldwide. The thinking was that because Wii sold well, Wii U would follow suit. I said that, since the Wii had already sold so well, we need to clearly explain the attraction of the Wii U if we are to get beyond that and sell the new system, and that this would be no easy task. I was responsible for selling the Wii U, and I knew what was good about it, so I talked with those in charge of sales about the importance of conveying the attractiveness of Wii U to consumers. I am guessing that some of this communication may have come across in a negative tone.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Who would have thought a next gen Wii without a next gen Wii remote to go with it was a good idea.

A "next gen" Wii Remote wouldn't have mattered. The audience for that was lost to mobile before Wii U came out.

 

[Klart]

They should fire whoever thought that and hire me. I could have told them it wasn't going to sell 100 million before it ever hit the market.

Sure. But could you have told them what was going to sell 100 million?

 

[joecanada]

They reached 15% of their goal. How many of us could honestly say they reached 15% of their hopes and dreams? Hardly any of us.

Lol if I reached 15 percent of say a dream to be in the NFL I'd be a decent football player .

Meeting 15% of your sales goals is basically bankruptcy time for most businesses

 

[Cheeseman Battitude]

Spoiler

WHy do I have this feeling it was Iwata or Miyamoto or some other well known higher up?

If that guy was in charge of pricing, the Wii U name, or the shitty cpu, that guy should be fired... ._.

Given Miyamoto's fondness for Star Fox Zero in his recent interview, I wouldn't be surprised if it was him.

 

[legend166]

In terms of the Wii U against the PS3 - main problem of the PS3 was that Sony just completely overshot the mark in terms of cost/features/power that the market was interested in. But when you're in a tech market that sells the same product for 5+ years (well, it did), that's not a fundamental flaw, because cost can always come down. And it helps when it makes simple economic sense for you to receive all the same games as your competitor.

The Wii U has fundamental flaws in that the market does not care about what it's offering. They don't want off TV play or asynchronous multiplayer on their home console. The fundamental selling point of the console has no broad appeal.

So that's why you could see Sony crawl back from the horror that was the first three years of the PS3, while Nintendo has seen nothing but declining sales. Also, Sony did a much better job engaging with their fanbase.


Note: The Wii U is the only current console I own and I love off TV play.

 

[AmyS]

What Nintendo needs is a healthy 40 to 50 million base of NX owners that are made up of mostly mainstream gamers. NX could also appeal to both hardcore and casual gamers with the right mix of software, but mainstream gamers are the bread & butter Nintendo needs. The hardcore pool of possible buyers is too small, and the casual pool of possible buyers are too fickle and cannot be counted on.

 

[AzaK]

Given Miyamoto's fondness for Star Fox Zero in his recent interview, I wouldn't be surprised if it was him.

Wouldn't surprise me either. I mean back in the day when video games were a child's domain, Miyamoto's child-like thinking would fit well with it. However as those gamers got older and children themselves became more selective and tablets/mobile took over his approach to gaming just doesn't work any more.

100 milllion is the most hilarious thing I've ever heard. Even though when Wii U was coming I was into the idea of a tablet based console, I would never have thought 100 million in my wildest dreams and I was fully aware of the mobile space and growing polarisation.

It's almost as if Nintendo some how lives in their own universe.

What Nintendo needs is a healthy 40 to 50 million base of NX owners that are made up of mostly mainstream gamers. NX could also appeal to both hardcore and casual gamers with the right mix of software, but mainstream gamers are the bread & butter Nintendo needs. The hardcore pool of possible buyers is too small, and the casual pool of possible buyers are too fickle and cannot be counted on.

That would be wonderful but the thing is, they have repeatedly said that their approach to gaming is what they will continue with. This to me means looking for the blue ocean again because there is NO FUCKING WAY in hell that enthusiast gamers will flock to a Nintendo machine that's underpowered and lacks third party games.

At this point I'm almost willing to say that unless they can hit the blue ocean big time, they are fucked, because if they release a XBO/PS4 level machine they are going to be right in Wii U territory. That is, an underpowered console compared to the upcoming competition machines. Why in the world would a enthusiast gamer buy a Nintendo machine if Scorpio and Neo are coming? It's have to be some out of this fucking world idea like a packed in blow-job peripheral.

 

[Imperfected]

I just like that somehow the logic that a new console will sell well because of the success or failure of the previous console is even a thing.

I mean, I assume that between the Wii (in terms of success relative to the Gamecube), Wii-U, and XB1 that no one's still thinking like this. I hope no one's still thinking like this.

 

[Soldiussnaku]

While I hope for it's success and feel that they can make a good fist of its financial success by ensuring they embrace a much more modern online model then say, the Wii u, the 100 mill projection is way off the mark.

In a post mobile, post apple world those types of figs are not realistic.

 

[Bots are better than you]

Talking about one heck of an over-projection. I know, that came from everything Wii ... but come on, no sane person could have thought that this was in any way realistic or even achievable.

Let's hope that the actual performance of Wii U put them back to earth about the NX projections.

But hey, with 100 million units, they even expected Wii U to sell fewer numbers than Wii, which did ~101,5 million ... it's something! *joke*

 

[BumblebeeCody]

I believe you can do it!