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[MatrixMan.EXE]

The Wii U didn't wipe out all of the Wii's profits ever made.

The PS3 wiped out every single dollar the PS2 made and then some. People kind of forget that Sony basically mortgaged the farm just to get the Playstation brand back to order.

In the long run Sony still managed to sell near 90 million units, a tonne of software, maintain extremely strong third party relations and are still a major contender in the home console space.

Nintendo went from being market leader to on the verge of their home (not handheld) console business dying within the space of 5 years. Long term I don't think PS3 was anywhere near as disastrous as Wii U has been. I think people tend to understate just how bad Nintendo's situation. But that's a different conversation for a different thread.

 

[neurosisxeno]

The PS3 wiped out every single dollar the PS2 made and then some. People kind of forget that Sony basically mortgaged the farm just to get the Playstation brand back to order.

If I remember correctly wasn't it more a combination of the PS3 being costly combined with other parts of their entertainment division basically crashing? I know their PC, TV, and Movie sectors were doing really badly about the time the PS3 was current gen, and hearing Sony as a whole was struggling.

 

[zma1013]

You really are understating the failure here. The name didn't help from the start, but it could easily be overcome with a good product.

I know some of the people in this board hate to believe it, but the public and non Nintendo core gamers outright rejected the console. A good ad agency nor name would have changed that.

It certainly would have helped but the Wii U was unfortunately a perfect storm of bad decisions all over. Who knows, instead of the current Wii U debacle, maybe it could have at least matched the Gamecube sales. Marketing is a pretty powerful component.

 

[FyreWulff]

If I remember correctly wasn't it more a combination of the PS3 being costly combined with other parts of their entertainment division basically crashing? I know their PC, TV, and Movie sectors were doing really badly about the time the PS3 was current gen, and hearing Sony as a whole was struggling.

That's the PS3 only income vs PS2 only income.

Sidenote: Xbox has never made a profit ever off it's original investment across 3 consoles. But the Xbox has always been buried inside another division to attempt to hide this. If Xbox had been made by any other company that wasn't Microsoft it wouldn't have lasted past the first one because they would have been unable to pay anyone :V\\

Iir home (not handheld) console business dying within the space of 5 years. Long term I don't think PS3 was anywhere near as disastrous as Wii U has been. I think people tend to understate just how bad Nintendo's situation. But that's a different conversation for a different thread.

Nintendo made profit through all those years. Not a lot, but still not disaster level. (Of course, they also played it safe)

 

[TreasureHunterG]

This shows how deep down in the dark hole the sales department was. I hope this means something to Nintendo.

 

[Movalpolos]

That company is naive as hell.

Extremely reductive but also extremely accurate.
Nintendo has no idea where they fit in the world. Wii was a happy accident.

 

[Baleoce]

I mean, I can see the logic in

- We made a console called the Wii
- It sold like gangbusters
- We're making a new console that ALSO has the word "Wii" in it
- SURELY it'll also sell like gangbusters.

Nintendo had believed that the massive sales of the Wii had re-created a level of brand awareness they haven't had since the late 80s/early 90s. I think they honestly needed something like the WiiU to make them see otherwise.

It boggles the mind that on some level they actually believed this was going to be the case.

 

[OmegaFax]

What a difference switching that "U" to a "2" could have made.

I left the reply window open and wanted to say "Bono" ... but anyways.

Swing and a miss on that one.

Nintendo's internal sales representatives are probably Mr. Meeseeks personified.

 

[Anth0ny]

 

[Yukinari]

The moment their E3 confused people on whether or not the WIi U was just an add on to the Wii or its own console should have been a warning signal for them.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

That's the PS3 only income vs PS2 only income.

Sidenote: Xbox has never made a profit ever off it's original investment across 3 consoles. But the Xbox has always been buried inside another division to attempt to hide this. If Xbox had been made by any other company that wasn't Microsoft it wouldn't have lasted past the first one because they would have been unable to pay anyone :V\\




Nintendo made profit through all those years. Not a lot, but still not disaster level. (Of course, they also played it safe)

They did make a profit, sure, but my point is that for all the success they had, what do they have to show for it? When you're a company of their size, marketshare and relevancy is just as important as profits and revenue. If you don't have the former, the latter will become increasingly harder to sustain as the years go on.

The Wii U speaks to the overarching trend that shows that both of the markets Nintendo used to find success in are served with much more aggressive and agile competitors. They've squandered their influence to near irrelevancy in both. It's not a good position to be in after spending the better part of 5 years as market leader in your field.

 

[Neff]

In the long run Sony still managed to sell near 90 million units, a tonne of software, maintain extremely strong third party relations and are still a major contender in the home console space.

Nintendo went from being market leader to on the verge of their home (not handheld) console business dying within the space of 5 years. Long term I don't think PS3 was anywhere near as disastrous as Wii U has been. I think people tend to understate just how bad Nintendo's situation. But that's a different conversation for a different thread.

If we look at the reality of it, Sony did ok, particularly if they were keen to keep the PlayStation brand relevant (as they obviously are) and of course their ballsy strategy was played with the understanding and security that they're not just a videogames company.

But as an entrepreneurial project PS3 was risky, reckless, and full of PS2 hubris, and they dug themselves into an ever-deepening money pit with MS which neither was willing to formulate an alternate plan around. As an example of business, It wasn't great.

As far as direct comparisons go, Sony could only 'have a PS3' a few more times, if that, before they were nothing. Nintendo could weather Wii U scenarios forever.

If I remember correctly wasn't it more a combination of the PS3 being costly combined with other parts of their entertainment division basically crashing?

It was very expensive and sold at a massive (initially $300 per unit) loss, but it was hoped that licensing, subsequent production refinements/revisions, and of course the Trojan horse of Blu Ray would offset long-term losses, but last gen was full of surprises for everyone.

 

[MDave]

They could of had a solid brand with Wii. Could you imagine the Playstation 2 doing something like the Wii U? Playstation U, with the same looking console as the first! Now with a tablet style controller that we are not sure what to do with it! We don't know how to market it!

They need some fresh young people to move higher up into the decision making process, that know what will resonate with players the best.

 

[sturgboski]

I was laughing so hard at this gif that started noticing all the seems. Now I can't unsee them.

Is Nintendo going to learn from this mistake? Aren't we like under a year from NX launch and there is absolutely nothing out there?

 

[Father_Brain]

Success is a lousy teacher, as the saying goes.

Wii and DS were immense successes in spite of doing absolutely nothing to address Nintendo's underlying weaknesses as a company (Japan-centrism, excessive conservatism, overall insularity). They of course concluded that those platforms succeeded because of that, and that's how they ended up where they are now.

As far as direct comparisons go, Sony could only 'have a PS3' a few more times, if that, before they were nothing. Nintendo could weather Wii U scenarios forever.

They really couldn't at all.

 

[boiled goose]

How is this possible... the wii had lost a huge amount of momentum towards the ends of it's life...

Wii was a mainstream media sensation.
Original games. New way to play.

WiiU had none of this and less Third party support at launch...

It's like they didn't understand Wii s strengths and weaknesses at all and made a console with mostly weaknesses.

Wiis main strength was novelty. Novel branding, games, and gameplay. It was also cheaper than the competition.

Wiiu had confusing branding that wasn't novel, sequel rehashes, and been there done that touchscreen gameplay.

However! It retained all of Wiis weakeness. Underpowered, subpar online, less third party support, non standard controls, all while not really being substantially cheaper than the competition.

This company... sometimes absolute genius. Sometimes more clueless than the average forum poster.

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

I think if they had called it Wii 2 ( and had no game pad and had it at $249.99), the 100 million unit goal would be more possible. Not probable, but possible.

fixed

 

[10k]

No fucking way. Even the most optimistic Nintendo forecast would have to take into account that at least half the Wii audience moved to smartphones and tablets and Facebook gaming and wouldn't come back.

Anything above 50m would have even too optimistic imo.

I don't think anybody expected it to sell slower than the dreamcast. Except for Pachter.

 

[Neff]

They really couldn't at all.

Relatively speaking, yeah they could. They won't want to though, and they won't have to if they're prepared this time.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

How is this possible... the wii had lost a huge amount of momentum towards the ends of it's life...

Wii was a mainstream media sensation.
Original games. New way to play.

WiiU had none of this and less Third party support at launch...

It's like they didn't understand Wii s strengths and weaknesses at all and made a console with mostly weaknesses.

The Wii didn't create any brand loyalty the way companies like Nintendo probably expected coming from the traditional console business, where fanboys go to war for them. The people that bought Wiis by the boatloads, and tens of millions of copies of Wii fitness and WIi Play and Mario Kart Wii moved on to the next fad. The brand meant nothing to them.

 

[boiled goose]

fixed

No way in hell. Wiius flaws go much deeper than branding. Now way it would ever outsell the wii.

The Wii didn't create any brand loyalty the way companies like Nintendo probably expected coming from the traditional console business, where fanboys go to war for them. The people that bought Wiis by the boatloads, and tens of millions of copies of Wii fitness and WIi Play and Mario Kart Wii moved on to the next fad. The brand meant nothing to them.

I agree. Nintendo failed to capitalize to try to retain these users. Things like proper unified online accounts and substantial online integration help build community and brand loyalty.

When Nintendo was on top with DS and wii they should have aggressively pushed towards online services. Even now they are behind the times. They need to lead not follow.

 

[AzaK]

While in the wrong field...

Whilst playing football.

That company is naive as hell.

Very - and blind to what was happening in the market at the time.

 

[Jubenhimer]

The Wii didn't create any brand loyalty the way companies like Nintendo probably expected coming from the traditional console business, where fanboys go to war for them. The people that bought Wiis by the boatloads, and tens of millions of copies of Wii fitness and WIi Play and Mario Kart Wii moved on to the next fad. The brand meant nothing to them.

Again, it's Nintendo's fault for not creating a long-term relationship with these consumers. They failed to adapt to their changing interests, and now they're paying the price.

 

[boiled goose]

Again, it's Nintendo's fault for not creating a long-term relationship with these consumers. They failed to adapt to their changing interests, and now they're paying the price.

Exactly.
There is STIll so much untapped potential for Nintendo that they fail to exploit. Just look at the amazingly strong melee, project m, and smash in general communities. They exist IN SPITE of the terrible support from Nintendo.

Imagine if these games had proper online modes and integrated community features within the games?

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

As far as direct comparisons go, Sony could only 'have a PS3' a few more times, if that, before they were nothing. Nintendo could weather Wii U scenarios forever.

Yeah I agree, but i think its ultimatley a moot point. Financially, sure, but in reality it will only take another, if not two more Wii U scenarios for investors to be out for blood.

Nintendo can't weather anymore Wii U level failures and expect to come out unscathed.Their hardware business' long term prospects are in grave danger. They know this.

 

[Spman2099]

The sad part is... everyone else knew it was going to be a struggle. If they had looked at the community that regularly purchases gaming products they would have seen that the Wii had done significant damage to the brand. Hell, if they had seen the attach rate they would have understood that. They were banking on fickle consumers, who don't regularly purchase games or consoles, to buy the Wii-U.

Nintendo really does seem completely lost these days.

 

[Xenus]

Relatively speaking, yeah they could. They won't want to though, and they won't have to if they're prepared this time.

Not really even relatively speaking. Imagine a Wii-U like drop in marketshare with the NX on a percentage level. As soon as the next generation they will have become whole irrelevant on a market share perspective. It doesn't matter that that they didn't lose any money on the endevour. If they get relegated to OUYA level of marketshare after a few generations.

Essentially it's a tale of 2 strategies with PS3 vs Wii-U. The Wii-U's strategy was persevering profit on an underperforming device while PS3's was burning money on an underperforming product to keep up with the market leader. Now we'll have to watch how the NX goes to be sure but I feel Sony's strategy put them in better situation at PS4 launch then the Wii-U strategy would have.

 

[Jubenhimer]

The sad part is... everyone else knew it was going to be a struggle. If they had looked at the community that regularly purchases gaming products they would have seen that the Wii had done significant damage to the brand. Hell, if they had seen the attach rate they would have understood that. They were banking on fickle consumers, who don't regularly purchase games or consoles, to buy the Wii-U.

Nintendo really does seem completely lost these days.

The only did minor damage to the brand in terms of the "Hardcores" who take the medium too seriously. The Wii had a perfectly fine attach rate. Truth be told, it was the Wii U that damaged Nintendo's reputation, not the Wii.

 

[Valkerionseven]

The sad part is... everyone else knew it was going to be a struggle. If they had looked at the community that regularly purchases gaming products they would have seen that the Wii had done significant damage to the brand. Hell, if they had seen the attach rate they would have understood that. They were banking on fickle consumers, who don't regularly purchase games or consoles, to buy the Wii-U.

Nintendo really does seem completely lost these days.

Yup

Sadly this is most companies in the world (especially Japanese ones.) Gotta have your ear to the ground in this industry these days. Their own fault.

 

[boiled goose]

The only did minor damage to the brand in terms of the "Hardcores" who take the medium too seriously. The Wii had a perfectly fine attach rate. Truth be told, it was the Wii U that damaged Nintendo's reputation, not the Wii.

The wii attach rate was fine but the late life of the wii certainly damaged the brand. Consumers lost confidence in Nintendo. The second wave of wii games were very similar sequels that did not really push the envelope.

Also, you need your core base and the media to be excited. Wii succeeded because their core showed it off to family. As the wii went on, Nintendo increasingly gave the middle finger to fans. Lots of very disappointing e3s, lacking localizations, etc.

Here is an example. Xenoblade was arguably the best jrpg of the generation, and it took operation rainfall to bring it to the usa. Years late. As a gs exclusive. How can you generate gamer and media goodwill with shit like this??

The wiiu not having proper online and accounts at launch, vc content being console tied, once again underpowered, did not help.

As a contrast, look at the ps3 to ps4 journey. Sony delivered to it's core audience without sacrificing broad appeal.

I'm a pretty casual gamer. I lined up for a wii at launch. Did not buy a wiiu till many years after launch. If fans of your games are hesitant to buy your hardware, you are doing many things wrong.

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

No way in hell. Wiius flaws go much deeper than branding. Now way it would ever outsell the wii.



I agree. Nintendo failed to capitalize to try to retain these users. Things like proper unified online accounts and substantial online integration help build community and brand loyalty.

When Nintendo was on top with DS and wii they should have aggressively pushed towards online services. Even now they are behind the times. They need to lead not follow.

Yes and I pointed that out. Nintendo needed to put out an affordable console. Calling it Wii 2 and nothing else wouldn't have done a damn thing.

 

[Boney]

I don't believe that gif

 

[Ogodei]

How dumb it is depends on how early they made that projection. Before or around E3 2011 would've been one thing.

 

[boiled goose]

Yes and I pointed that out. Nintendo needed to put out an affordable console. Calling it Wii 2 and nothing else wouldn't have done a damn thing.

Cheap also not enough. They had to lead in terms of online services to find success. "Platforms" are more than hardware now. People are not gonna invest in a lackluster platform when there are clearly superior options.

A cheaper, padless wii2 would sell to who exactly? Maybe 20 m instead of 10m?

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

I feel like Wii Too had to be the name at some point.

 

[Jubenhimer]

The wii attach rate was fine but the late life of the wii certainly damaged the brand. Consumers lost confidence in Nintendo. The second wave of wii games were very similar sequels that did not really push the envelope.

Also, you need your core base and the media to be excited. Wii succeeded because their core showed it off to family. As the wii went on, Nintendo increasingly gave the middle finger to fans. Lots of very disappointing e3s, lacking localizations, etc.

Here is an example. Xenoblade was arguably the best jrpg of the generation, and it took operation rainfall to bring it to the usa. Years late. As a gs exclusive. How can you generate gamer and media goodwill with shit like this??

The wiiu not having proper online and accounts at launch, vc content being console tied, once again underpowered, did not help.

As a contrast, look at the ps3 to ps4 journey. Sony delivered to it's core audience without sacrificing broad appeal.

I'm a pretty casual gamer. I lined up for a wii at launch. Did not buy a wiiu till many years after launch. If fans of your games are hesitant to buy your hardware, you are doing many things wrong.

I agree to an extent, but it was never really giving the middle finger to fans, rather it was more going overboard with the casual focus, E3 08' was the culmination of it. Afterwards they started dialing back and E3 09 managed to more appropriately strike a better balance between showing casual and core software. 2010 was when the system was arguably at it's peak in terms of software IMO. However like you said, the botched Wii U reveal, the Operation Rainfall fiasco, and general lack of understanding as to what casual AND core gamers REALLY wanted were all what got Nintendo in to the situation they're in now.

As I said a few times before, it's very similar to 90s Sega. They made a killing off reaching an untapped market, but failed to create a long term relationship due to shady business decisions, sloppy management, and constant ignorance of what the market and consumers wanted. However, Nintendo is financially stable enough to make a comeback in a big way. By the time Sega got their shit together, the company had already dug it's financial grave.

 

[AzaK]

Yup

Sadly this is most companies in the world (especially Japanese ones.) Gotta have your ear to the ground in this industry these days. Their own fault.

They didn't even need to have their ear to the ground. All they needed to do was to follow the launch of the iPhone

 

[TAJ]

if sony/ms didnt copy them it would have.

Because remote play (that Sony had since 2006) and Smartglass were such major selling points.

 

[Maintenance]

I read this thread earlier and this is how I spent my day:

 

[Neff]

Not really even relatively speaking. Imagine a Wii-U like drop in marketshare with the NX on a percentage level. As soon as the next generation they will have become whole irrelevant on a market share perspective. It doesn't matter that that they didn't lose any money on the endevour. If they get relegated to OUYA level of marketshare after a few generations.

Actually I think they could sit at a Wii U-like install base no matter what hardware they put out, for a long time, considering how strong their IPs always have been and still are, and how highly-regarded their software is generally. Even if their hardware doesn't sell great, like the Wii U, the software does.

Not that they will, of course, nobody can be as short-sighted as Nintendo were with Wii U all the time. I'm not suggesting that Nintendo should accept such circumstances. They shouldn't and they won't. My point is simply another well-rehearsed iteration of the fact that Nintendo is not doomed, not even in danger, due to their absence of debt, substantial wealth, and franchises which still entertain in their millions. They know they fucked up. The dish is fine in theory. They just need a better recipe.

Essentially it's a tale of 2 strategies with PS3 vs Wii-U. The Wii-U's strategy was persevering profit on an underperforming device while PS3's was burning money on an underperforming product to keep up with the market leader. Now we'll have to watch how the NX goes to be sure but I feel Sony's strategy put them in better situation at PS4 launch then the Wii-U strategy would have.

Well, if we're still comparing losses, Sony's story is one of billions lost (and owed), while Nintendo's story is one of millions lost (and billions owned). To me the latter feels more like a success story. MS blew a giant wad on last gen like Sony did, but it's starting to feel like they don't really care as much about Xbox anymore.

 

[MuchoMalo]

This bit worries me. Was he in charge of the confusing early Wii U marketing campaign?

... Oh god. Please tell me that him being CEO means that someone else has taken over for NX. Then again, after that recent YouTube video they're marketing might be at an all-time low... This is terrifying. If Nintendo's marketing is as bad as it's been this generation still, NX could be the best console ever and it would still struggle to reach 5 million.

 

[10k]

... Oh god. Please tell me that him being CEO means that someone else has taken over for NX. Then again, after that recent YouTube video they're marketing might be at an all-time low... This is terrifying. If Nintendo's marketing is as bad as it's been this generation still, NX could be the best console ever and it would still struggle to reach 5 million.

How do you manage to take every minor detail and jump to massive conclusions like this?

 

[Skittzo0413]

In the long run Sony still managed to sell near 90 million units, a tonne of software, maintain extremely strong third party relations and are still a major contender in the home console space.

Nintendo went from being market leader to on the verge of their home (not handheld) console business dying within the space of 5 years. Long term I don't think PS3 was anywhere near as disastrous as Wii U has been. I think people tend to understate just how bad Nintendo's situation. But that's a different conversation for a different thread.

Those two failures really underscore the enormous differences in the two companies. If the Wii U had sold 90 million units but cost Nintendo essentially all of their previous profits they would be out of business, since their core business is video games. Sony can afford to take that hit in order to preserve their brand and third party relations because they have billions in other assets to fall back on.

This is why Nintendo can never succeed by directly competing with Sony and MS and why people should stop expecting them to and then getting disappointed when they don't. Nintendo hasn't changed that much since the days of the SNES, rather the market and the competition has (for better or for worse).

 

[aBarreras]

... Oh god. Please tell me that him being CEO means that someone else has taken over for NX. Then again, after that recent YouTube video they're marketing might be at an all-time low... This is terrifying. If Nintendo's marketing is as bad as it's been this generation still, NX could be the best console ever and it would still struggle to reach 5 million.

hyperbole: the post

the first things that were know about kimishima is that he told nintendo that the wii u wouldnt sell, so stop with the concern

 

[MuchoMalo]

I was laughing so hard at this gif that started noticing all the seems. Now I can't unsee them.

Is Nintendo going to learn from this mistake? Aren't we like under a year from NX launch and there is absolutely nothing out there?

The fact that nothing has been revealed means that they've learned from one of the big Wii U mistakes at least, but the fact that it was announced a year ago negated that. Wii U was revealed too early and had seemingly more impressive specs at the reveal than it did at release. By waiting until close to the start of manufacturing, the hype period will be shorter and more focused, and the hype will be based on what we'll actually get instead of what they hope to do.

Unfortunately, Nintendo's marketing team has been getting worse and worse so it might not even matter. They want to appeal to everyone by only advertising to young children, and they don't see the flaw in that logic.

hyperbole: the post

the first things that were know about kimishima is that he told nintendo that the wii u wouldnt sell, so stop with the concern

Well, it remains to be seen if that means that he knows what will sell. Insiders haven't been giving good news...

 

[Jubenhimer]

The fact that nothing has been revealed means that they've learned from one of the big Wii U mistakes at least, but the fact that it was announced a year ago negated that. Wii U was revealed too early and had seemingly more impressive specs at the reveal than it did at release. By waiting until close to the start of manufacturing, the hype period will be shorter and more focused, and the hype will be based on what we'll actually get instead of what they hope to do.

Unfortunately, Nintendo's marketing team has been getting worse and worse so it might not even matter. They want to appeal to everyone by only advertising to young children, and they don't see the flaw in that logic.

Scott Moffitt, former VP of Sales and Marketing said he was leaving the company, and that his current position will be dissolved afterwards. Sounds like Nintendo's determined to learn from it's past mistakes.

 

[FStop7]

Thought this was interesting from the shareholder meeting.



https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/stock/meeting/160629qa/03.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_8KR-n2fBQ

 

[Skittzo0413]

The fact that nothing has been revealed means that they've learned from one of the big Wii U mistakes at least, but the fact that it was announced a year ago negated that. Wii U was revealed too early and had seemingly more impressive specs at the reveal than it did at release. By waiting until close to the start of manufacturing, the hype period will be shorter and more focused, and the hype will be based on what we'll actually get instead of what they hope to do.

Unfortunately, Nintendo's marketing team has been getting worse and worse so it might not even matter. They want to appeal to everyone by only advertising to young children, and they don't see the flaw in that logic.

They announced a code name last year. We knew they were working on a console, they just wanted to ensure the fan base that their mobile initiative didn't mean there wouldn't be new dedicated hardware, and it was definitely the right move. Could you imagine if they announced their mobile games and partnership and didn't say a thing about future consoles? That would have created a huge third party Nintendo shitstorm.

We haven't seen anything of the NX marketing campaign, so calm down. I am also worried that their marketing will not improve but we have nothing to base that fear on at this point.

 

[aBarreras]

The fact that nothing has been revealed means that they've learned from one of the big Wii U mistakes at least, but the fact that it was announced a year ago negated that. Wii U was revealed too early and had seemingly more impressive specs at the reveal than it did at release. By waiting until close to the start of manufacturing, the hype period will be shorter and more focused, and the hype will be based on what we'll actually get instead of what they hope to do.

Unfortunately, Nintendo's marketing team has been getting worse and worse so it might not even matter. They want to appeal to everyone by only advertising to young children, and they don't see the flaw in that logic.



Well, it remains to be seen if that means that he knows what will sell. Insiders haven't been giving good news...

well if insiders are saying it!

please stop, several insiders have said that if the xbox one and ps4 are receiving ports, there shouldnt be a reason for the NX to not run those games,

ALSO, have you even thought that the NX was already on production, at least designing before kimishima was named president? and that MAYBE, MAYBE, was delayed because he wanted it to be more core oriented or something? i mean, we really dont know jackshit about the NX so, stop, just wait to be revealed and the continue with your paranoia

 

[Morfeo]

Here is an example. Xenoblade was arguably the best jrpg of the generation, and it took operation rainfall to bring it to the usa. Years late. As a gs exclusive. How can you generate gamer and media goodwill with shit like this??.

All the Operation Rainfall-games ended up coming out everywhere, do we really know anything about what influenced them to make that decision? For all we know, they could always have been planned for small releases in NA, and the Rainfall had no influence on it.

The best case story for Nintendo here, was that they had planned to release them in NA, but wanted to announce it at the best time for them to get some traction. When Operation Rainfall started, they initially didnt want to give in and announce it, because that would set a terrible precedence, and fostering more "negative campaigning" from their fans. When they then finally announced it, the Operation Rainfall was so visible that most people telling the stories just assumed that it had influenced Nintendo. But yeah, we dont know if that is really true.