Dash_Riprock
Member
Sega released 2 consoles in quick succession in the mid 90s. What happened to them?
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VentureBeat: Microsofts Xbox and gaming sales decline 9%
- Thread starter Rymuth
- Start date
Sega released 2 consoles in quick succession in the mid 90s. What happened to them?
LordRaptor
Member
They're a relevant force in PC games publishing
Not only is that comparison faulty for a multitude of reasons but the gap between PS3 super slim and PS4 is concurrently the same as Scorpio and S
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I don't want them to leave PC gaming, I just want them to stop pushing Windows Store only games.
Sure, but note how Atari, Amstrad and commodore pc's don't even come to mind for you.
Quick google search shows Dreamcast sold only 9 million and Saturn sold only 9 million. Microsoft's position is significantly different. They make a sizable amount of income of XBL subscriptions, and they've come off a gen with 80 million units and have sold 20+ million units so far this gen.
They are getting their butt kicked but that absolutely does not mean they don't have a space in the console sphere.
I guess I could think about it from their perspective, but that would conflict with their public statements and what they have actually done over the years. Xbox hardware always has quarters were they lose money. Hell even during the holiday season when they sell millions of consoles they still lose money, because of price discounts. This is the "moving of boxes" Phil said last month they are not entirely focused on. Yes they want to sell you an Xbox console, but more importantly they want you in their Win10/Xbox ecosystem playing their games. That's what XBox Play Anywhere is about.
The margins on hardware are peanuts compared to the margins of software and services. That pretty much what Microsoft is, a software and services company.
CrimsonEclipse
Member
You sure this thread already isn't it? If not, someone may as well start one now it seems, will make many happy.
You're comparing two completely different times and two massively different companies, I don't see how that's considered to be a fair comparison.
Welfare
Member
Sega released 2 failed add on's to the Genesis, stealth launched the Saturn in the US, and then released the Dreamcast a year before the PS2.
MS are going to release a slim version of their existing console and an upgraded variant of it for the high end market a year after.
I mean, we should really be scared for Sony going by "quick succession". Neo after only 3 years? Oh no.
That was made in 2003.
Transcripts from the earnings call:
Satya Nadella - CEO
Amy E. Hood - CFO
Satya Nadella - CEO
We continue to drive growth in gaming by connecting fans on Xbox Live across Windows 10, iOS, and Android. Just this quarter we launched our Minecraft Realm subscription on Android and iOS. Overall engagement on Xbox Live is at record levels, with more than 49 million monthly active users, up 33% year over year. At E3 we announced our biggest lineup of exclusive games ever for Xbox One and Windows 10 PCs. And we announced Xbox Play Anywhere titles, where gamers can buy a game once and play it on both their Windows 10 PC and Xbox One. We also announced two new members of the Xbox One console family, the Xbox One S and Project Scorpio.
Amy E. Hood - CFO
As expected, devices revenue significantly decreased this quarter. Revenue declined 35%, also 35% in constant currency due to phone, where revenue declined 70% in constant currency.
Surface revenue increased 9% in constant currency, as Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book growth was partially offset by unit declines in our prior-generation Surface 3. And in gaming, revenue declined 9% or 8% in constant currency, driven by lower Xbox 360 unit volume and reduced Xbox One pricing. Our overall gaming ecosystem showed healthy growth with 49 million monthly active Xbox Live users, or a 33% increase, and 4% Xbox Live revenue growth.
Segment gross margin dollars declined 3% or roughly flat in constant currency, as decreases due to Xbox consoles and the phone inventory adjustment were partially offset by our OEM and search results.
...
Now for the outlook for the next quarter. ...Gaming revenue will be driven by the same factors as in Q4...
...
...we're also seeing quite good growth in some of the Consumer businesses, which also are built on our cloud infrastructure, Search, some of our gaming assets, our Xbox Live business going forward.
Surface revenue increased 9% in constant currency, as Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book growth was partially offset by unit declines in our prior-generation Surface 3. And in gaming, revenue declined 9% or 8% in constant currency, driven by lower Xbox 360 unit volume and reduced Xbox One pricing. Our overall gaming ecosystem showed healthy growth with 49 million monthly active Xbox Live users, or a 33% increase, and 4% Xbox Live revenue growth.
Segment gross margin dollars declined 3% or roughly flat in constant currency, as decreases due to Xbox consoles and the phone inventory adjustment were partially offset by our OEM and search results.
...
Now for the outlook for the next quarter. ...Gaming revenue will be driven by the same factors as in Q4...
...
...we're also seeing quite good growth in some of the Consumer businesses, which also are built on our cloud infrastructure, Search, some of our gaming assets, our Xbox Live business going forward.
The guy I originally quoted said that.
MilkyJoe
Member
A truck load of Kinects rotting in a warehouse perhaps...
Papacheeks
Banned
Sony isn't the one trying to make a case that you don't need a console to play their games on.
Microsoft's whole play anywhere initiative is the other factor, adding to peoples doom/gloom posts. Because as it stands right now, so far they've done a piss poor job on that front.
The argument was how company releasing two consoles would give any impression of leaving a market, Sega's experience was pointed out.
The sega experience is seared in a lot of minds, but there are further precedents where Atari releases a Falcon PC in 1992 and then discontinues their PC line in 1993 to focus on the Jaguar.
Bitch Pudding
Member
I have to disagree. Like Matt and others already explained, MS as a company couldn't care less what exactly you buy from their store. They care that you create an account - for which you need to install Windows 10 in the first place - and start buying whatever you like. Be it the latest Quantum Break, or an Office package, or a calculator.
Introducing XBOX games on the Windows 10 store has one purpose: Make the store more attractive so people finally start using it. But given the market share of the store (even when it comes to MS exclusive games), the additional sales for each IP are just a drop in the bucket. I am talking about a well below 5% share for the Windows store channel here. In the current (!) situation, this is basically fucking nothing. Therefore it doesn't have a negative impact on XBOX Live subscriptions (yet) as well as it doesn't push games sales to unprecedented heights.
At the end of the day, the XBOX division will have to demonstrate that they are able to contribute to MS' overall target to leverage the Windows 10 store. If they cannot do that AND fail to increase their global market share within the next 3 years at least considerably, they are indeed in trouble from my point of view, as this is right now their raison d'être of being part of a multi-division company like MS.
So, how are the odds that a couple of XBOX exclusives which had a hard time even on XBOX hardware will turn the tides in their favor? Or has any of the announced new IPs the potential to become the next Halo. Or at the very least, the next Gears (sales-wise)? And how are the odds that Scorpio (together with XBOX One S) will not "just do fine for what it is", but to help regaining global market share, for which - by definition - it has to outsell all PS4 SKUs as well as Nintendo's NX.
I am not conluding that MS is doomed, I just want to point out that the next 2-3 years will be a crucial time for the XBOX division, with an open end.
Except in terms of profit made in the PC hardware market, Apple is actually very dominant.
In 2012 they held 5% of the PC marketshare yet 45% of the profit, more than every other vendor combined. As a PC vendor, Apple is killing it.
Your comparison is kinda flawed.
Bitch Pudding
Member
This is odd, isn't it? Given that the new, most likely not heavily discounted XBOX One S arrives?
Welfare
Member
Lol they always specify lower 360 volume and the XB1's pricing. So what, XB1 volume is consistent with last year or something?
I thought so too. Not really sure how to take that.
Doesn't seem like they think it will sell well, at least that's what I read
Welfare
Member
Lower 360 volume and cheaper XB1 pricing compared to last year. Lowest XB1 price last year was $349, this year it'll be $299.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Revenue = Quantity * Price.
This statement indeed indicates MS doesn't think the "quantity" part will change all that much.
Didn't they mention XBOX One S in the earnings call at all?
What I quoted was the sum total of every mention of "gaming" or "xbox"
So just: "We also announced two new members of the Xbox One console family, the Xbox One S and Project Scorpio."
BabyFaceKillah
Member
I think thats was his point. Apple has very little marketshare in the PC market.
spiderman123
Member
Xbox...your system is a means to an end. I don't buy a gaming systems to watch movies. I have cable for that. I want better and more exclusive games. I wont be buying an xbox till then.
MilkyJoe
Member
Why you quoting me?
R3TRODYCE
Member
CrimsonEclipse
Member
I get what you are saying, but it's also going to take more than just the xbox division helping the windows store. As much as I enjoy gaming on Windows/Xbox...the store is a shit show.
If they are truly hoping for some AAA games to change how their store is viewed they are in for a serious reality check.
I mentioned before, if the day ever comes to light where MS feels they should drop gaming I think it would make more sense for them to just publish games, keep their IP's, and just release them on other platforms (Steam/Playstation/etc). For them to completely just leave everything and ditch their IP's would be ludicrous. If they can't make the profits they want at home, make it somewhere else if possible. Though, that is something that can be talked about if that ever comes to fruition. I still think the division will be fine.
The Xbox One S is $150 to $200 overpriced (worse than the original PS4 in every metric), the Scorpio will be outflanked by the NEO (for those who want that sort of thing) and is already obsolete compared to current PC hardware (which will play virtually all forthcoming Xbox exclusives), no sane third party will take an MS moneyhat after seeing how poorly Tomb Raider has fared, and Microsoft still has not bothered to build up its first parties. It's amazing how mismanaged Xbox has been this generation.
No, they did not and I have no problem admitting to it. What also came to mind was Google in the IAAS cloud market. They aren't doing as good as Amazon or Microsoft in that market but I doubt that they would leave it nor not find profitability and a business there.
My comparison isn't flawed because what I compared it to. Your first word was "except"...and then you said 'in terms of"..."PC hardware"...well then, yea, you are right, your comparison in how you view it is correct. Wording things makes a big difference.
jroc74 said:
Yes. It was my point.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
You have a point there. If Neo launches at $399, it makes that 2TB One S look very sadly priced, regardless of HDD size, considering how cheap it is to plug one into the Xbox or swap in the PS4.
Yeah, everything is going according to keikaku. If Microsoft can get that number down as low as possible, they'll be thrilled.
CosmicQueso
Member
There is a place on the spectrum between doomed and everything is fine.
And if Microsoft does indeed intend to leave the console manufacturing space, no one will know until a PS5 is announced and there's nothing from Microsoft, or perhaps they announce a line of PCs with an Xbox UI front end.
But they won't come out one day and say "We're done with consoles!" It'll just fade away, then they'll either transform the business into a service business or just spin it off.
If they decide to go that way, which is by no means certain.
And if Microsoft does indeed intend to leave the console manufacturing space, no one will know until a PS5 is announced and there's nothing from Microsoft, or perhaps they announce a line of PCs with an Xbox UI front end.
But they won't come out one day and say "We're done with consoles!" It'll just fade away, then they'll either transform the business into a service business or just spin it off.
If they decide to go that way, which is by no means certain.
CrimsonEclipse
Member
So will Neo and not everyone in the gaming community/xbox fans is going to go build a gaming pc...believe it or not there are people out there who don't care about PC gaming, what's your point?
Well, there will be 500GB/1TB at lower prices. I believe the 2TB is just a limited SKU, I don't think it's priced all that bad.
Imperfected
Member
Decline in a business is almost always considered a pretty big deal, and even stagnation can be damning. This is doubly true when you consider how bullish Microsoft were on gaming's growth this generation; while we can assume the "1,000,000,000" units sold prediction was a flight of fancy on the part of a particularly incompetent individual, it obviously came from a place of overwhelming optimism about the growth potential of the sector given China opening as a market, and proper expansion into South America and other parts of Asia.
There was no one at Microsoft who was being promised an even keel and revenue stagnation going into this generation. That's not what they spent the enormous R&D costs of the XB1--how much was the controller alone, again?--in hopes of achieving. There probably aren't many people there right now who are going to be very happy with that outcome.
Hey Hey, My My.
MS has no problem burning out-of-favor stuff to the ground and moving on, as with aQuantive and Nokia. They are kind of like the anti-Sony in that way.
MilkyJoe
Member
What about PSP Go and Vita?
CosmicQueso
Member
Every company can abandon a product. But that's right, Sony never came out and said "we're done with Vita!" it just sort of faded away.
Expect it'd be the same with MS and the console space if they were going to leave it. It would just be talked about less and less until it was just kinda gone.
?
They still making and selling vitas while letting that part of the company fade quietly into oblivion. The point is, it takes sony years and years to exit something. MS cuts things off like a highly caffeinated civil war doctor.
Not really because it's their main product. Vita wasn't a main product so the fading away happened because it could. If Xbox stops having an E3 for example then that's sudden end, fading away couldn't happen.
It wasn't competent though.
They basically said "hey don't buy Xbones now because they are old and obsolete, we're releasing a slightly less shitty one this year, and a MUCH NEWER ONE at some point in the future, so we really don't know which one you should wait for/buy/not buy."
Choice is good when the choices actually make sense. These choices made no sense.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
OléGunner;210678831 said:
I'm talking about the UK only.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
That's exactly what I just said lol.