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[Poimandres]

April to June?

When all the rumors about a new model where everywhere?

As a matter of fact, my little brother wanted to buy an Xbox in May. I told him to wait after E3 because there were strong rumors a new model was coming. He did wait but he ended up buying the console because he found a good deal a few days ago since it seems many stores want to get rid of the old models.

Let's see how things develop the next months.

I think most people really aren't up on "rumours" like these, or we would see a corresponding drop in PS4 numbers. Definitely savy consumers keep up on this like this, but not sure how much of an impact it would actually have.

 

[Kaji AF16]

that bolded part may make you inherently biased then

If by "bias" you mean generally preferring Microsoft´s products and services over Sony´s, well, of course. But I try to choose my purchases and formulate my statements with the highest possible level of objectivity

Spoiler

for a gaming forum

.
I wish that Microsoft stays and succeeds in the console market. Is that what I rationally think that will happen in the long term? Different story.

Ms is only operating within U.S and UK marketplace.

I am from Argentina. Here, in somewhat of a reversal with most of the world, Xbox is the brand of the older, hardcore demographic, who probably spends more in gaming. We were a "Tier-3" country for the Xbox One launch, but our relatively small community is very invested with the brand.

 

[Omnistalgic]

If by "bias" you mean generally preferring Microsoft´s products and services over Sony´s, well, of course. But I try to choose my purchases and formulate my statements with the highest possible level of objectivity

Spoiler

for a gaming forum

.
I wish that Microsoft stays and succeeds in the console market. Is that what I rationally think that will happen in the long term? Different story.

Fair enough, but I don't get the distinction to be made for a gaming forum? Why not just be objective regardless lol.

Either way I don't think Xbox will duck out completely even if Scorpio doesn't do anything. I just expect each Xbox will become more and more like PC's.

 

[Matt]

Firstly, Windows Phone isn't actually killed off.

Second, let's say it is. It wasn't killed due to bad financial performance. It was killed due to having less than 2% market share.

Not only is the Xbox market share healthy, Xbox is needed for Microsoft as a brand. It's literally Microsoft's only link to a youth demographic and these organisations aren't stupid. A kid who grew up playing Xbox is more likely to buy a Windows PC later in life than someone who grew up on PlayStation. Especially if the foundations for a good ecosystem are in place, which Microsoft are currently doing, step by step.

MS's phone efforts in the last, say, 6 years have been a complete money sink.

And you are right that MS would prefer a viable Xbox product line. The question becomes how much are they willing to put up with for the return.

 

[serversurfer]

Nadella said they're not making hardware for the same reason Apple is, they make it it to showcase Windows and create things other manufacturers can follow.

What does that even mean? I'm sure Apple would say the same, if you replaced "Windows" with "Apple stuff." If anything, it sounds like he's saying he wants MS to be more like Apple — building their own hardware to put their best foot forward. Is he saying he wants Dell to start making Surfaces too or something? What exactly are MS doing differently from Apple here?

That's why the hardware division is within the Windows division and not the other way around.

I don't think either is within either at Apple, but I'm not sure. I get the feeling that hardware and software are handled mostly separately though.

At Apple I'm fairly certain the device design takes priority because that's where most of their revenue comes from.

Pretty sure Apple know the software is at least as important as the hardware if not more so, because it's the software that causes people to choose the hardware. Apple's hardware is very nice, to be sure, but it's generally not the very best, at least when it comes to specs and such. The software is the main attraction, and Apple have always known this; keynotes have always been mostly software-focused, and oh, one more thing, we refreshed the hardware again so it's faster again.

At MS most of their revenue comes from software and services. The comparison makes no sense.

Comparing Surface to iPad makes far more sense than comparing Surface to XBox, and you're the one who brought up Surface in the first place. ;p

Nadella's whole vision is about your experiences (and all the MS services you pay for) going with you across every screen in your life and the TV is still a major screen. He's acknowledged that gaming is the biggest life (non-business) category in terms of time spent and revenue, so they've got to have something there to get those MS accounts and Windows Store users.

C'mon now. You know full well he was talking explicitly about mobile when he talked about how important gaming was and how the XBox brand may be useful to them going forward. Let's not go putting words in to the man's mouth. He wasn't reaffirming a commitment to consoles, he was saying he thought these game devs may help him gain some traction in the very important mobile space, where Surface sits, speaking of.

 

[eerik9000]

Transcripts from the earnings call:

Satya Nadella - CEO

We continue to drive growth in gaming by connecting fans on Xbox Live across Windows 10, iOS, and Android. Just this quarter we launched our Minecraft Realm subscription on Android and iOS. Overall engagement on Xbox Live is at record levels, with more than 49 million monthly active users, up 33% year over year.​

Damn, I had completely forgotten they are bringing Xbox Live to iOS and Android with Minecraft, despite that long ass demonstration at their E3 briefing. I wonder how much more MAUs they'll get out of it? Got to keep the numbers up somehow!

 

[Zedox]

Yeah you have no problem admitting to it after the fact and then proceed to draw another long bow with IAAS references that is another market littered with dead providers and is coalescing around only the biggest providers. Competition can and does forces providers out of the market.

http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/3055225

Speaking at the Gartner Infrastructure, Operations and Data Center Summit in Sydney today, Gartner vice president and distinguished analyst Lydia Leong said the IaaS solution ecosystem is rapidly consolidating around a small number of market leaders.

"The sky is not falling — customers are getting great value out of cloud IaaS — but the competitive landscape is shifting," Ms. Leong said. "Few providers have the financial resources to invest in being broadly competitive in the cloud IaaS market."

Is there a point of you talking about "admitting" anything? Did you catch me in a lie? I told you what came to mind. Stop looking for stuff thats not there just because someone doesnt think like you.

And Microsoft isn't a big player in the console gaming space? Yes, competition forces companies out of a business. But to think that the #2 (out of 3 players) player is being forced out right now is stretching it. Once again, in my opinion.

Don't know what's so hard to understand that a company can still have a business in a market and not be #1.

 

[Shin-chan]

So if Microsoft does pull out of the console business, do people see this as them spinning off Xbox as a whole and washing their hands of it or simply as turning it into a service while becoming a traditional third party publisher? If the W10 store exists and they then release games everywhere they would be no different than EA or Blizzard, which would certainly be interesting.

 

[Bastables]

Is there a point of you talking about "admitting" anything? Did you catch me in a lie? I told you what came to mind. Stop looking for stuff thats not there just because someone doesnt think like you.

And Microsoft isn't a big player in the console gaming space? Yes, competition forces companies out of a business. But to think that the #2 (out of 3 players) player is being forced out right now is stretching it. Once again, in my opinion.

Don't know what's so hard to understand that a company can still have a business in a market and not be #1.

Dude of the three it (MS) has sold the least amount of consoles.
Home Console sales by company
Nintendo 282.91 million
Sony >381.29 million
Microsoft 128 million *(added another 10 million to bring Xbox one to 20 million, wiki only has it at it's last reported number of 10 million).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles


We're in a thread where Xbox divisions revenue is falling because of poorer hardware sales/profits. Waffling on about how theoretically they're ok with not being number one is pretty disingenuous. Matt's pointed out how tenuous things are for MS in the console space, how is any of this hard to understand? Unless you're being deliberately obtuse?

You're the one mewling about admitting things, now you're blithering on about catching people out in lies.

 

[chromatic9]

Nah, Scoripio won't be the end, they are making Xbox console like steam box. Making console with on shelf part isn't too much cost for R&D.
Windows phone is more dire and they still making new phones. Surface, phones, Xbox, all just part of the devices in different form factor for Windows10.

So far it seems Xbox Scorpio will be no more off the shelf than PS4 or Xbox One and will need as much R&D.

Since UWP people seem to start saying next Xbox is a Steam box, have you guys seen a steam box?

 

[MilkyJoe]

So do people really think that MS are out, or do they just want them to be out?

What a strange last few pages.

IF MS pulled out without another company stepping in, PS players are going to know about it.

 

[jelly]

I feel if the Windows Store takes off like the Apple App Store, Microsoft will lose interest pretty fast in Xbox hardware. That sort of tipping point changes the game, the profits would be insane, a Windows Phone would be successful. Unless Xbox changed into home automation, VR and Hololens being the consumer appeal on huge scale I don't think Microsoft would care that much and console gaming would fizzle out.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

I feel if the Windows Store takes off like the Apple App Store, Microsoft will lose interest pretty fast in Xbox hardware. That sort of tipping point changes the game, the profits would be insane, a Windows Phone would be successful. Unless Xbox changed into home automation, VR and Hololens being the consumer appeal on huge scale I don't think Microsoft would care that much and console gaming would fizzle out.

The odds of Windows store taking off like iTunes (or google store) are as high as Windows phone OS taking off as Apple iOS or Android, maybe even lower.

 

[wapplew]

So do people really think that MS are out, or do they just want them to be out?

What a strange last few pages.

IF MS pulled out without another company stepping in, PS players are going to know about it.

For me, MS was out the minute they announce all titles they publisher available on Windows 10 store, out of console business in the traditional sense.
They still make the console "box" but it's just another "box" for windows store in console form factor.

For me, it feel like they want to be the tools, the infrastructure, the hardware, the market place of gaming but never really want to be the developer of gaming. That's what I think about MS in gaming.
Everything they do now, making games, publishing games, only steps toward that goal.

 

[Avtomat]

Got to disagree with this notion that MS will be out of the console space. They make money on every single game sold by anyone on Xbox One, XO is still selling quite well. It may not have replicated the succeas of X360 but it has been successful and is making money. MS' push into publishing on PC more than likely just to recuperate costs of AAA development.

I see them as being in for the long haul with consoles.

 

[Matt]

Got to disagree with this notion that MS will be out of the console space. They make money on every single game sold by anyone on Xbox One, XO is still selling quite well. It may not have replicated the succeas of X360 but it has been successful and is making money. MS' push into publishing on PC more than likely just to recuperate costs of AAA development.

I see them as being in for the long haul with consoles.

...almost all of this is wrong.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Got to disagree with this notion that MS will be out of the console space. They make money on every single game sold by anyone on Xbox One, XO is still selling quite well. It may not have replicated the succeas of X360 but it has been successful and is making money. MS' push into publishing on PC more than likely just to recuperate costs of AAA development.

I see them as being in for the long haul with consoles.

This is a parody post right?

Holy shit.

...almost all of this is wrong.

The only thing that isn't is that there is a company called MS, and they do make the Xbox One...

 

[Darksol]

Got to disagree with this notion that MS will be out of the console space. They make money on every single game sold by anyone on Xbox One, XO is still selling quite well. It may not have replicated the succeas of X360 but it has been successful and is making money. MS' push into publishing on PC more than likely just to recuperate costs of AAA development.

I see them as being in for the long haul with consoles.

I sincerely doubt it.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

Xbox as a brand isnt going anywhere, no matter how much some would wish the opposite.

Going to be an exciting couple of years ahead and even more exciting to see how they position the games, hardware and brand together.

Time for Phil and his team to vanquish the spectre of Mattrick for good.

 

[Bastables]

Xbox as a brand isnt going anywhere, no matter how much some would wish the opposite.

Going to be an exciting couple of years ahead and even more exciting to see how they position the games, hardware and brand together.

Time for Phil and his team to vanquish the spectre of Mattrick for good.

That invoking some sort of mythological battle between Phil and Mattrick indicates that your not really grounded in rationality.

But you're right Xbox as a brand may not be going anywhere. After all Atari and Sega as brands are still kicking around. I'm looking forward to Sega's next Sonic game and Atari's continued forays into LGBT, gambling and youtube that they began in 2014 to amaze us all.

Excited.

http://www.warpzoned.com/2014/06/at...cial-casinos-real-money-gambling-and-youtube/

 

[Avtomat]

This is a parody post right?

Holy shit.



The only thing that isn't is that there is a company called MS, and they do make the Xbox One...

Y'all need to expand in what is wrong with the post.

That MS don't charge a fee to publish on XO? That X360 was profitable and XO while being less so is probably making money?

For me I can see a future in which they get rid of the division and double down on server and computing but I sincerely doubt it. The console space has the potential to diversify revenues and in addition they can use first party games developed for this space to help their windows store / cost share with PCs.

 

[Bastables]

Y'all need to expand in what is wrong with the post.

That MS don't charge a fee to publish on XO? That X360 was profitable and XO while being less so is probably making money?

For me I can see a future in which they get rid of the division and double down on server and computing but I sincerely doubt it. The console space has the potential to diversify revenues and in addition they can use first party games developed for this space to help their windows store / cost share with PCs.

You need to read the op and the article it cites for discussion.

tldr: revenues for Xbox div are down in spite of greater "installed base".

 

[Bits N Pieces]

That invoking some sort of mythological battle between Phil and Mattrick indicates that your not really grounded in rationality.

But you're right Xbox as a brand may not be going anywhere. After all Atari and Sega as brands are still kicking around. I'm looking forward to Sega's next Sonic game and Atari's continued forays into LGBT, gambling and youtube that they began in 2014 to amaze us all.

Excited.

http://www.warpzoned.com/2014/06/at...cial-casinos-real-money-gambling-and-youtube/

Im not looking at anything irrationally, I just feel that MS have been firefighting on all fronts since the initial Xbox One reveal. With Scorpio they have the chance to banish those memories to the history books and get back to making what made the Xbox such a great product back in the heyday of the 360. Like a said, its a reason to get excited

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Xbox as a brand isnt going anywhere, no matter how much some would wish the opposite.

Despite some shitty because user-unfriendly decisions MS made this generation, like trying to pull off that DRM stunt, "XBOX first", or paying devs money so they don't launch their games on competing platforms, I for one have no doubt that the XBOX division as a whole contributes positively to the overall video games market (e.g. by putting constant pressure on their competitors giving them no opportunity to become complacent), hence MS leaving the home console market (especially hardware) would have major negative impacts on players of all kinds of home consoles.

Yet that doesn't stop me from assessing the current market environment and future developments.

 

[Bastables]

Im not looking at anything irrationally, I just feel that MS have been firefighting on all fronts since the initial Xbox One reveal. With Scorpio they have the chance to banish those memories to the history books and get back to making what made the Xbox such a great product back in the heyday of the 360. Like a said, its a reason to get excited

So you have a mythological struggle between heros. And now have a personified machine/company division engaging in attempting to suppress/be suppressed with automatic fire in order to reclaim it's rightful place in history alongside it's "father".

Yeah fables are pretty exciting.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

So you have a mythological struggle between heros. And now have a personified machine/company division engaging in attempting to suppress/be suppressed with automatic fire in order to reclaim it's rightful place in history.

Yeah fables are pretty exciting.

Fuck me dude, lol.

All I am saying is that the Xbox division has a chance to start afresh with a console and a plan that ticks all the boxes that gamers want, that the Xbox One never even looked at - never mind ticked.

Dont know how you equate mythological struggles and heroes and whatever other nonsense you typed from what I said?

 

[intheinbetween]

...or paying devs money so they don't launch their games on competing platforms

wait, what?

 

[Bastables]

Fuck me dude, lol.

All I am saying is that the Xbox division has a chance to start afresh with a console and a plan that ticks all the boxes that gamers want, that the Xbox One never even looked at - never mind ticked.

Dont know how you equate mythological struggles and heroes and whatever other nonsense you typed from what I said?

You've been typing it....

 

[Bitch Pudding]

wait, what?

Wait, what? You think Crystal Dynamics needed the money from MS to develop ROTTR as the predecessor just sold the embarassing number of just 8,5 million units?

 

[intheinbetween]

Wait, what? You think Crystal Dynamics needed the money from MS to develop ROTTR as the predecessor just sold the embarassing number of just 8,5 million units?

Do you think MS is the only one doing that? Seriously?

 

[MilkyJoe]

You need to read the op and the article it cites for discussion.

tldr: revenues for Xbox div are down in spite of greater "installed base".

Was last year not hailed as an exceptional year though? The Minecraft craze and all ?


Edit: yes it was

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-07-22-hows-xbox-doing

Microsoft reported its results for the fourth quarter of its 2015 financial year, and while the company made a gargantuan loss, Xbox and the division it sits in made a tidy profit.

Edit, just looking back as well if PS sold 80 million PS3 in 9 years, that's 8.9 million a year or 22.25 million in 2.5 years. Xbone is a little over 2.5 years and at 21 million units sold.

Is xbox doing really bad or is PS4 doing unfathomably well?

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Do you think MS is the only one doing that? Seriously?

I actually didn't say that...

 

[RibMan]

So if Microsoft does pull out of the console business, do people see this as them spinning off Xbox as a whole and washing their hands of it or simply as turning it into a service while becoming a traditional third party publisher? If the W10 store exists and they then release games everywhere they would be no different than EA or Blizzard, which would certainly be interesting.

Turning it into a service makes a lot of sense. Xbox Live has been and is -- as evidenced by numbers -- their biggest strength. I don't think companies like Apple/Samsung/Google/IBM/etc. see much (if any) value in Xbox hardware, so finding a buyer for their Xbox hardware would require a lot of sacrifices on Microsoft's part

(All of this assumes that Scorpio comes out and fails to reverse the downwards trend of Xbox hardware)

 

[Primethius]

Do you think MS is the only one doing that? Seriously?

What are some other examples this gen? I'm drawing a blank.

 

[intheinbetween]

I actually didn't say that...

Despite some shitty because user-unfriendly decisions MS made this generation, like trying to pull off that DRM stunt, "XBOX first", or paying devs money so they don't launch their games on competing platforms,..

I'm sorry, maybe I read it wrong, but that sounds like it's something only MS does, when it's not.

 

[Avtomat]

What are some other examples this gen? I'm drawing a blank.

Bloodborne, Street Fighter V?

 

[intheinbetween]

What are some other examples this gen? I'm drawing a blank.

Street Fighter V, No Man's Sky, Bayonetta 2,..

 

[Conduit]

Bloodborne, Street Fighter V?

Oh man, not again. Bloody hell.

 

[Primethius]

Bloodborne, Street Fighter V?

Street Fighter V, No Man's Sky, Bayonetta 2,..

Yea, that's not what he was saying at all. And those aren't the same situation as ROTR, at all.

 

[intheinbetween]

Yea, that's not what he was saying at all. And those aren't the same situation as ROTR, at all.

Why not? Because you believe Sony or Nintendo funded those titles? I'm sure ROTR got funds from MS.

And what about Shenmue? A title which is also supossed to be released on PC, but Sony kept the console exclusive.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

You've been typing it....

Well if that's what you see.....

 

[wapplew]

What are some other examples this gen? I'm drawing a blank.

Dead Rising 4, WD DLC, Destiny DLC, COD DLC, Division DLC, PvZ Garden warfare etc

 

[Bitch Pudding]

I'm sorry, maybe I read it wrong, but that sounds like it's something only MS does, when it's not.

You did. And whatever you think others do, their ROTTR stunt was a fucking PR nightmare which also harmed the Tomb Raider brand which just managed to become relevant again.

Oh man, not again. Bloody hell.

I am truly sorry for opening Pandora's box...

 

[Primethius]

Why not? Because you believe Sony or Nintendo funded those titles? I'm sure ROTR got funds from MS.

And what about Shenmue? A title which is also supossed to be released on PC, but Sony kept the console exclusive.

ROTR got funding but is releasing on PS4?

Okay.

 

[Dredd97]

Why not? Because you believe Sony or Nintendo funded those titles? I'm sure ROTR got funds from MS.

pretty sure that's been debunked by insiders.. sure MS provided publishing honors and free marketing, but they didn't fund the game like Nintendo did with Bayonetta 2 or Sony did with Bloodborne / SFV

 

[Avtomat]

Yea, that's not what he was saying at all. And those aren't the same situation as ROTR, at all.

Is the counter argument that SFV was a full exclusive as opposed to a timed exclusive?

 

[captainraincoat]

After you climb out of the backseat, you may want to reconsider what he's saying. MS has known for ages that the Xbox division has been in decline, so developing/announcing new hardware would be a legitimate tack to take in an attempt to reverse their fortunes. Announcing Scorpio this far in advance is absolutely a desperation move.

Not really.....sony announced their ps4 almost a year before it came out and they also didn't even have a box to show off

ms now have a year to get people used to the play anywhere titles and tweak the user experience on the xbox to be more pc and xbox together instead of separate.

if they do it right they really have a great chance to turn around the brand.

 

[Bastables]

Well if that's what you see.....

So after a run of little stories you're down to dank memes.

Yeah xbox rise up with the power of Mattrick.........

 

[Trup1aya]

Dude of the three it (MS) has sold the least amount of consoles.
Home Console sales by company
Nintendo 282.91 million
Sony >381.29 million
Microsoft 128 million *(added another 10 million to bring Xbox one to 20 million, wiki only has it at it's last reported number of 10 million).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles


We're in a thread where Xbox divisions revenue is falling because of poorer hardware sales/profits. Waffling on about how theoretically they're ok with not being number one is pretty disingenuous. Matt's pointed out how tenuous things are for MS in the console space, how is any of this hard to understand? Unless you're being deliberately obtuse?

You're the one mewling about admitting things, now you're blithering on about catching people out in lies.

But we are in a business where hardware sales isn't the leading driver of revenues, software and services are, and increasingly so.

Looks to me that MS is on a clear path to making the barrier to entry (purchasing a console) an optional one.

I don't think it means they intend to leave the console space. Rather they want to offer products and services to gamers regardless of where they choose to play.

 

[LordRaptor]

Firstly, Windows Phone isn't actually killed off.

Second, let's say it is. It wasn't killed due to bad financial performance. It was killed due to having less than 2% market share.

Not only is the Xbox market share healthy,

"Marketshare" is a pointless metric, even to MS themselves who have always dealt in actual sales numbers or in active users (MAUs) when they don't want to reveal actual numbers. Even so, less than 30% marketshare and worse revenue than competitors isn't exactly "healthy".

Their phone division - the one that had disappointing numbers to the point of selling a large portion of it off - had sales exceeding 100 million units. That's 5 times more products sold, even if market share is smaller, because it is a much much much bigger pie, and one that is growing, not shrinking, unlike the console space.

If marketshare was more important than actual users or units, MS would be manufacturing things that basically nobody wants anymore - like 3.5" drives - to gain the 100% marketshare of a product maybe 5 people globally buy a year.

Xbox is needed for Microsoft as a brand. It's literally Microsoft's only link to a youth demographic and these organisations aren't stupid. A kid who grew up playing Xbox is more likely to buy a Windows PC later in life than someone who grew up on PlayStation. Especially if the foundations for a good ecosystem are in place, which Microsoft are currently doing, step by step.

I see almost zero correlation in offices where people are using Windows PCs as to what console they played as a kid or if they played on a console at all.
I mean, this is such a stretch, the UX of a Windows PC and an Xbox is so markedly different in the first place that I think a Linux distro that copied the layout of an Xbox / 360 / X1 would be more appealing to a user of an Xbox / 360 / X1 than Windows is.