Wasn't that a write-up from after the event, where it was revealed as an Xbox title?
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VentureBeat: Microsofts Xbox and gaming sales decline 9%
- Thread starter Rymuth
- Start date
Wasn't that a write-up from after the event, where it was revealed as an Xbox title?
Xbox console hardware was consolidated into the Microsoft Hardware team over a year ago. Besides accessories, the Xbox division is a pretty much a software and services team already.
I don't think they'd license out the Xbox name, just like they don't license out the Surface name. It would just be another Windows machine with whatever name the manufacturer comes up with, kind of like Dell's Alienware line.
Maybe they eventually drop the console hardware if they feel like they like that screen is well covered by other Windows machines and there's nothing more to innovate on in regards to the hardware, but right now there's no coverage by other manufacturers there.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Whoa! Now that is a little polarizing.
Isn't it. Matt, the dev who talks to us peasants who is also an expert on sales and the whole video game market, having insight in all aspects where it counts. We can't be thankful enough to have him here.
Dash_Riprock
Member
He's a dev. I'd take his word over the other guy.
Primethius
Banned
Yikes. Wanna dial that back a bit?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I know who he is, that is why I said what I said. Polarizing, as in, it is a little more dire than people want to believe, and I even expected to be.
CosmicQueso
Member
Yeah, that informed, level-headed, reasonable and rational approach to discussion that Matt shows every single time I've seen him post can be a real grind, can't it?
The crazy deals meant lower revenues from sales.
Welfare
Member
Console sales? In the US in the April - June period for their 3rd year.
360 2008: 593,600 [Arcade $279 | 20GB $349 | 120GB $449]
XB1 2016: 486,600 [500GB $279 | Kinect bundle $279 | 1TB $299 | Elite model $349]
Down 18%
First 6 or 7 months in this year, right? I know that Xbone sales are down compared to X360 from start of 2016 on monthly basis.
It's A loss leading investment. Just like all of the other platform holders. You sell a box at a loss, and you hope that software, subscription, and microtransactions sales over the course of the next few years mitigates that loss. And then as the cycle progresses, you ship a hardware revision that isn't made at a loss. The profits come on the tail end.
They plan to further mitigate their cost of gaining customers by, reaching some of them without having to sell them additional hardware (by selling games on android, iOS, and PC). As such they intend to REDUCE the cost of reaching additional customers.
Then there are indirect benefits of their unified ecosystem. If someone goes out tmrw and buys a new win10 PC because they can play Xbox game, then that's another Windows license sold, and potentially future non-gaming related software sales. That'll never show up in the earnings report for gaming.
The only reason the 360 failed to make money was not because it was number 2 or 3. Nor was it because the plan wasn't sound. It was because of a hardware defect.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
I would just like to see what is Microsofts strategy for Xbox worldwide moving forward.
Because even if you honestly believe that Xbox has a future in its current form, it's pretty hard to explain what that future is in non English speaking countries.
Because even if you honestly believe that Xbox has a future in its current form, it's pretty hard to explain what that future is in non English speaking countries.
ethomaz
Banned
360 was more expensive? The comparison is that bad like I expected... 18% lower 360 with all the cons Xbox One is facing is fine I guess... if you account the head start Xbox One is in a good position yet.
Unless (high possible) the situation is way worst outside US but we will never know
His numbers are for April-June...
Jan to June XB1 did ~1.11m in US... I don't have 360 numbers.
Yes a very good one on the history of events. The second link - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=125066039&postcount=5124 was the one showing it being a multi plat at E3.
The meltdowns have begone.
I don't think they are gonna have their console in all the other parts of the world like Sony does. (Just my opinion). I think that they are going to try to reach PC gamers with their store in those territories. I don't think it will be as good as having a console in those regions but that's the only thing I can think of that is reasonable. MS may keep their consoles in the regions that they are currently in. My opinion though.
wapplew
Member
Hope Japanese games get irrelevant before Xbox get relevant in such regions.
I think that's the best plan.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I just realized NPD is today
PS. I know we have leaks already but I want more... the TOP10 ranking with platform order and usual PR spin.
Edit - Wait I just read about digital tracking coming today too... nice.
Was it delayed a week? Shouldn't it have been the 14th?
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
PC gaming is not going to make up the shortfall especially as so far, win 10 versions of games require pretty much top of range hardware. The same hardware that that outside of the US is significantly higher in price performance ratio. Even the 970, which is pretty old by PC standards, cost more than both the x1 and ps4.
Win 10 might be gateway drug for the mindcrafts and candy crushes of the world, but there is not a significant console market that will build PCs to play MS IP and become XBL users. They will just buy PlayStation and Nintendo.
Besides, PC gaming is not helping the Xbox brand. It's helping win 10.
As a stockholder, I wouldn't be surprised to see MS dump the entire division. They have tried in the past, the problem is that nobody actually seems to want it. There just isn't much money to be made in consoles anymore. Everybody wants to get into phones, and mobile gaming
That includes Microsoft. I don't blame them. I find the majority of my gaming time these days is on the phone
That includes Microsoft. I don't blame them. I find the majority of my gaming time these days is on the phone
Welfare
Member
360 was more expensive? The comparison is that bad like I expected... 18% lower 360 with all the cons Xbox One is facing is fine I guess... if you account the head start Xbox One is in a good position yet.
Unless (high possible) the situation is way worst outside US but we will never know
His numbers are for April-June...
Jan to June XB1 did ~1.11m in US... I don't have 360 numbers.
Just to note, the XB1 price I put was the lowest it got in the period, which was towards the end of said period. It available for higher prices as well, but most of the sales occurred when it was closer to the prices I listed.
YTD for 3rd year (Jan-Jun)
360 2008: 1,340,000
XB1 2016: 1,108,000
Down 17%
I just realized NPD is today
PS. I know we have leaks already but I want more... the TOP10 ranking with platform order and usual PR spin.
Edit - Wait I just read about digital tracking coming today too... nice.
About that. We lost that in the PR release.
i don't think the idea is to convert console users into PC gamers.
The idea is to sell software to PC gamers who don't have or want an MS console... By removing that barrier to entry, MS has an opportunity to access more gamers, and generate revenues from customers who otherwise wouldn't have been sending any $ to the gaming division.
Also, having Xbox games on Win10 certainly helps the Xbox brand (so long as the ports are shitty) and win 10... The benefit isn't mutually exclusive in any way. I'm not sure how you can suggest otherwise.
Yes, how dare someone who has some actual knowledge of how things work chime in and pop the little bubble I've built around my personal beliefs. How dare they.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Sony is raking in the cash with their console division. But they also know they have to expand the brand and evolve it in other avenues as well.
CosmicQueso
Member
Yeah... about that...
RichiRamjag
Member
A little of that is due to their own mistakes. I can't believe some of the missteps that were made with the Wii U. High hopes for NX.
wapplew
Member
Sell software in those region? Hahahahaha
Joke aside, they really need to step up by a lot if they want to compete for PC gamers money in those region.
First, let me buy games with my local currency not US dollar, MS. Then maybe buy, Blizzard, Tencent, Nexon and NCsoft.
anothertech
Member
Cool off bro. He's not the reason your console of choice is failing.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
But in that, the benefit is only limited to exclusive IP on the win 10 store (some of which is only timed at that) .There is not going to be a mass migration of third party devs and pubs from steam.
So at best MS is getting a handful of the revenue they enjoy on console because pretty much everything they normally receive licensing fees from is sold elsewhere.
Couple that with zero hardware revenue, no live revenue and minimal accessory revenue, win 10 is a much smaller pot, gaming wise than a competitive Xbox. Which does not make it any kind of solution to declining consoles sales worldwide.
What's the joke? I mean, yeah they need more IPs or to get 3rd parties on their platform. But there's no reason a games like Forza, Forza Horizon, Sea of Theives, or Scalebound wouldn't sell in non-English speaking regions, so long as the PC ports are solid.
It boils down to execution. But the plan itself if fine.
They don't need a "mass migration". Also, its not like devs/publishers can't sell their wares in more than one store similultaneously. MS is aiming to increase the sales of games, services, and microtransactions. They are doing this by adding PC to their stable. They don't need to overtake anyone to make a profit. They just need to improve on their offering.
Hardware profit has never really been a thing for MS. But You can't ignore in-direct benefits like win10 licensing fees from people who newly to upgrade or new hardware sales and future software/service sales to these consumers that may or may not even be gaming related
Bear Force One
Banned
What's...what's happening...
Lol who knows. But would you care to break down the parts of the post that was wrong?
It would probably help quell All the snark in this thread.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
The bolded is great, but it presents yet another problem for MS. In merging the Xbox and Win 10 stores, they have made windows store games beholden to retail pricing. So even if 3rd parties do start selling games on the Win 10 store, there is every chance that Steam versions will be cheaper, especially version sold by third parties like GMG or as key resales from new GPUs.
As for Win 10 sales, that is not something that will be driven by Xbox, as much as Xbox games will be a beneficiary of it. When we are talking hardware, outside of a niche gaming laptop market, new hardware is not going to be Xbox AAA gaming ready. That cannot be seen as the purpose of upgrading. Even in the enthusiast market, the removal of Windows 7 from sale means windows 10 is the OS of choice be default, not because of anything Xbox has driven.
Microsoft will increase sales of Games, services and MTs with PC. That is true. But that has no bearing on the loss of a decling console market, nor will it ofset the loss of revenue that will create. Xbox will move from being a brand in its own right, to a feature of an OS.
ethomaz
Banned
Yep! Like Welfare said here "It falling behind in monthly sales =/= falling behind LTD" : http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=201360804&postcount=1855
Probably since beginning of this year.
I think the point you are completely missing, is that the Gaming Division just wants to make money and/or set up MS to make more money in other ways.
If that means selling fewer consoles, and more PC games and MTs, then so be it.
The MS store isn't neccisarily beholden to any retail pricing whatsoever. They are beholden to MS policy and publisher pricing. Both of which are beholden to supply and demand. No doubt, if MS wants people to choose the Win10 store over other fronts, they'll need to make improvements in many areas, pricing being one of them. But nothing is written in stone.
With regards to gaming PCs, we already hear talk of people buying or building gaming PCs in anticipation of the Play Anywhere initiatives. This means people are either paying for a new win10 license, or they are buying licensed hardware.
How can you suggest software sales on PC can't offset a declining console market? The PC market is massive compared to the console market. If they can get 1 new PC customer to buy a single first party Xbox game per year, they've made up for the loss of an Xbox live subscription. if they can get their ports right, I'd imagine the number of PC games sold to existing PC gamers would be far higher than the number of people leaving the console space and going to PC.
If Xbox is a feature of the OS, how is it not a brand?
Two things.
The Xbox division was never a big revenue stream for Microsoft even when the 360 was doing well, at least not compared to what they were raking in with Office, Windows, and Azure. The console-only approach wasn't turning into a global, multi-billion dollar business along side their other global, multi-billion dollar businesses, so I doubt they're all that concerned about whatever royalties they're losing when thinking about the Windows business at large...
Nadella made Xbox a part of Windows in 2014 when he promoted Phil Spencer to Head of Xbox, reporting to the EVP of the OS Group, Terry Myerson. He's explicitly said he thinks only about 3 pillars of his business and that Xbox is to increase the appeal of Windows. See below.
Satya Nadella said:
Satya Nadella said:
I think over time we'll see more output from the Xbox team (e.g., publishing deals, marketing deals) including other Windows devices than just a powerful PC and console.
I'm moving to PC gaming and mobile. Oh, and I'm the kind of user MS and others are targeting. I have quite a bit of discretionary income, and I just don't have the time to sit in front of the TV and play console games anymore.
That's how life works though. PS4 will be my last console, and I'm certainly not interested in Scorpio. My laptop will be able to do just as much, and is much more functional - only ones that play the video game systems are the children.
I am interested to see what Nintendo comes up with - mobile gaming is great, and they have always exceeded at that.
That's how life works though. PS4 will be my last console, and I'm certainly not interested in Scorpio. My laptop will be able to do just as much, and is much more functional - only ones that play the video game systems are the children.
I am interested to see what Nintendo comes up with - mobile gaming is great, and they have always exceeded at that.
CosmicQueso
Member
It's today. It's just not going to be what you want it to be.
I'm looking forward to see what the response is like.
schwabdizzle
Banned
I used to have both Xbox One and PS4, now I only have the PS4 and I am building a PC. It seems like now you can get most Xbox One games on PC so really the numbers kind of make sense as console sales go.
ethomaz
Banned
No PR or TOP10 ranking??? Less than what we get in previous months or different??? I'm curious now.
I'm gonna go ahead and file this under "shit post."
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I have not kept up the past couple of weeks, but was it delayed, usually it is the second week Thursday, correct? So the 14th would have been the traditional date?
Welfare
Member
PR for the top 10 will happen, but there will be no platform order and we don't have digital sales.