You mean 3DS?
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DF: Nintendo NX Powered By Nvidia Tegra! Initial Spec Analysis
- Thread starter DeathSparks
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You mean 3DS?
GhostTrick
Banned
If it's indeed a Tegra X1, the smallest bump they could have is at the very least 2 to 3 times, if the chipset was clocked at 100mhz for the GPU part :")
You guys still hoping for contemporary AAA games need to give it up.
That said, I don't know a whole lot about the discussion over handheld architectures and whatnot, but I'm imagining an NX version of GTA V being a technical possibility. If it indeed is, I think it would be a pretty advantageous win for the platform: It's not a very computationally demanding game if you account for the last gen version (maybe GTA V is on a physical game card with GTA Online as a download?), it's still extremely popular despite being a three-year-old game, and it would be the only portable version of the game. Just a thought. If NX does get anything from western AAA companies, it's gonna be relatively old games, and GTA V kinda fits the bill but is still selling good numbers. Skyrim kinda fits too with both its popularity and impending re-release.
That said, I don't know a whole lot about the discussion over handheld architectures and whatnot, but I'm imagining an NX version of GTA V being a technical possibility. If it indeed is, I think it would be a pretty advantageous win for the platform: It's not a very computationally demanding game if you account for the last gen version (maybe GTA V is on a physical game card with GTA Online as a download?), it's still extremely popular despite being a three-year-old game, and it would be the only portable version of the game. Just a thought. If NX does get anything from western AAA companies, it's gonna be relatively old games, and GTA V kinda fits the bill but is still selling good numbers. Skyrim kinda fits too with both its popularity and impending re-release.
Who knows, Nvidia is a really big partner to have in your corner when you are talking to third parties, they were able to get AAA games on the Shield, which has a penetration that makes Wii U look like the PS4.
I'm personally more excited for the shared library, 3DS + Wii U library is all I need outside my power hungry PC... and I can take all those games on the go? sure, where do I insert the 100 dollar bills?
Dark Cloud
Member
I haven't read much of this topic, but what's the possibility of the NX using the Tegra X2?
Doesn't seem likely. lcgeek basically stated as much when said X2 is not going in a sub $300 device. With reports this will be a lot cheaper than people expect some variation of X1 seems the best we can hopefor
I would like to believe and I really want X2 but lcgeek seems to have a very good idea of what's going on considering they mentioned a important new devkit revision for august etc.
If you take this rumor seriously, then you sort of have to take the SemiAccurate one seriously as well. A $199-$299 X1 powered device 2 years after the $199 Shield TV released is not what you could question as a "win" like this at all... It's likely X2 or sub $199 and if it is sub $199, why is the n3DSXL $199? just doesn't work.
I'm not saying that it's a lock, but it certainly doesn't sound like a long shot at all, at worst I'd say it's 50/50, but what do I know, I'm just the guy who argued that Nintendo would use 14/16nm for the past year, and was told it was pretty much impossible.
Where he said that?
DeuceGamer
Member
If I follow everything properly we are looking at a minimum of a handheld that is a large improvement over Vita and even when connected to the Dock should output graphics better than Wii U on an HD TV, right?
brainchild
Banned
I don't care who said it, you cannot just arbitrarily declare that a mobile chip isn't going in a device under $300 without knowing what kind of deal Nintendo worked out with Nvidia, especially when factoring in economies of scale.
lcgeek may have provided reliable insider information in the past, but that doesn't make him a marketing expert or an economist.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Nobody uses 3G on the Vita. There is a reason why it got phrased out in the revision model to cut cost.
Yeah, I agree 100%... What does Patcher think about this?
Dark Cloud
Member
Sorry, this lcgeek person hasn't proven to be know things of the NX or know what deals Nintendo has in place with Nvidia. Anything is possible and if September is the revealing time I hope we find out about it soon.
wonderful103
Member
Before you guys all get caught up on next generation tegra, ask yourself:
Can it be mass produced (keyword mass) as of about September with good yields with a "good deal"?
Can it be mass produced (keyword mass) as of about September with good yields with a "good deal"?
DeuceGamer
Member
Enough to get me excited as that's a powerful handheld, at a minimum. For those worried once they have this off the ground it's possible they release a more powerful "home console" version at some point in the future. If it runs the same games and OS, just at higher resolutions it would seem to make sense as they don't have to sell to a completely new install base, but instead complement the "handheld" version. Can't wait for more details!
GhostTrick
Banned
I wonder. Was X1 confirmed or is it just Eurogamer's guess ?
I mean, what are the odds they just licensed the Tegra chip and use a variant with less cores ?
I mean, what are the odds they just licensed the Tegra chip and use a variant with less cores ?
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
They seem to have confirmation that the dev kits are using X1s, but that doesn't mean the final hardware will.
Considering X2 is being mass produced for cars? sure why not? pascal will be ready for a spring launch too, the smaller the chip (fewer cuda cores) the higher the yield, and when you have 1060 launched in july, a year later with ~30% or fewer cores? no problem to have millions ready.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
whew, you would think after 3DS and WiiU (And Vita, PS4, and XOne even), people would've stopped it with the pie-in-the-sky hopes and dreams for hardware specs.
GhostTrick
Banned
X1 is seemingly confirmed for the devkits, actively cooled and oced but this may well be for old APIs/dev kits as we have no idea how old this stuff is.
The actual product as per LCGeek's wording previously is that the actual chip is still fluid and under heavy work from both nVidia and Nintendo. Geek was extra solid on the fact that big green was very involved with this production and that the kits are rapidly evolving (we've gone from disastrous APIs to, now, Geek being rather... well, really positive and excited?) The next major update would be coming in August where a lot more info, supposedly, would start to be known for the final configuration. So likely whatever iterations they've gone through, this is starting to converge on a final spec.
We have no idea what's in there. I doubt X2, but its almost certainly not going to be a factory issued X1. Its something else that is still being made and worked on, apparently, and seemingly had trouble making it to dev kits until only now (which makes me think 16nm but who knows).
The point with X1 or X2 is Maxwell or Pascal, no one cares about anything else when it comes to GPU flops, so if Nvidia is heavily involved and it is being developed still, how could they ignore Pascal? just doesn't make sense... Call it whatever you want, my post is about Pascal, not X2 persae.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
X2 at high clocks, HBM, Dock that doubles performance
GhostTrick
Banned
Oh, right. Because I already consider X1 to be kinda high. Although, I think you're reading the dock thing wrong. It's not that it may double performances, it's that without it, performances may be halved. X1 can run fanless at high clock (800mhz-1ghz) but I doubt it can do on batteries and on the go.
Yep, it would be downclocked on the go, and there is little reason for them not to do this if the screen resolution is 1/2 to 1/4th the resolution that is displayed on the TV.
deriks
4-Time GIF/Meme God
You mean like SLI?
GhostTrick
Banned
yep, 1/4th clock on the go, I think I've narrowed down my estimation like my old trinity guess for Project Cafe that I showed you years ago (480gflops quad core from AMD lol)
I think they'll go 540p because its the best they can guarantee in general with good battery and consistency of performance/appearance.
No one wants butt-ugly repeats sub-native Vita games because Sony's dumb enough to overdo the screen resolution beyond what the hardware can manage on the go.
X2 or a dock with an extra chip isn't high in the sky specs.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Makes it no less of a dumb idea, though.
What is a dumb idea? None of what he said is dumb or even outlandish. In fact, changing power draws when plugged in or on battery is pretty damn standard for phones, laptops, or just about anything with a battery.
GhostTrick
Banned
How is that ? It's basically how works every portable hardware that can be tethered. Even 3DS unlocks a higher brightness mode when plugged in. You're thinking the wrong way. It's not about making a hardware faster with a magic dock, it's about making it slower when not plugged in.
Could it be possible that the steal of a deal is that the dock is an SCD that includes a second X1. In that scenario the SA rumor could still be true, Nintendo got a steal of a deal on X1s so much so they could afford to retail at 199 with one in the handheld and one in the dock.
A single X1, custom or not, would still be a dramatic improvement over any prior handheld and a healthy bump up from the Wii U, especially rendering at 540p, while a second X1 could help bolster the unit for proper 1080p rendering when docked for play on a TV.
I personally hope that's not the case, I'd prefer see the X2 and everything housed in the handheld with just a dumb dock for now, but it wouldn't be a necessarily bad scenario either. Possibly less likely all things considered.
wonderful103
Member
And what of tapeout and testing? (Custom chip and all that). Where does that go in this timeline where, again, about half a year is required to mass produce? As you already know there are usually multiple levels and layers of testing for new chips.
Nintendo and Nvidia are customizing the chips, this isn't speculation but LCgeek, and common sense, so you should direct your question to Nvidia/Nintendo, we are 7+ months out, and LCgeek is saying new chips in August, so this fits a 6 month til release window that would be needed, again though, this is happening whether we speculate on it or not.
More expensive, so it doesn't really fit with the narrative we have heard, however there is nothing stopping Nintendo from selling an alternative "dock" AKA Console, that can play the games without the device or connect to the device via SLI bridge and nearly double performance, I mentioned this in my post #997 in this thread, it would be a great way to introduce VR if Nintendo goes down that path later as well.
For a March 2017 launch wouldn't that place it as September or October timeline for the start of production. That fits with the rumours announced September blowout. Release all the details as it goes into production to avoid rumours
Yep and if 3rd parties like LCgeek's contact is getting the chips next month, I have to assume most of the testing has already been done.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
I don't think most apps or computer applications are targeting a particular spec, either. You're presenting either having a subpar portable experience and a decent docked experience, a docked experience chopped at the knees and limited due to the handheld experience, or putting in a lot of extra time and money to make both experiences somewhat closer. You're still limited to what the undocked handheld could do. And if a user, especially the kids, disconnect do you stop the whole experience for a bit or just let it lag while it adjusts down? That's a lot of extra headroom that would remain underutilized for not a lot of gain for the sake of being able to say you have extra gigaflops. The main target of these things, if the current discussion is to be believed, is kids and casuals. Try explaining to them that they should always play their handheld docked for a better experience and they'd go back to their iPads in no time.
Interesting. Know where I can find these posts from LCGeek?
I'm not sure you know how the tech works... You even call out the iPad and smart phones, both of which do downclock when low on power. The key component you are missing here is screen resolution, it would be seemless for the end user, with an X1, you'd have about half XB1's performance and with a Pascal GPU (which is seeming likely here) you'd have a device on par with XB1 and PS4 whether you are on the go or docked in at home, only the resolution of the game changes, not the fps or graphics fidelity.
no one is, we are talking about 20nm maxwell vs 16nm pascal, we aren't actually talking about X2 at all, we are simply using it because Tegra based on Pascal called X2 is about to be announced and this NX device is possibly using a custom tegra chip based on Pascal.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
But you're comparing extreme conditions (low battery states) to being undocked when they're completely different scenarios. One is prolonging the life of the device when the basic needs of the device user must be met (which is going to be nonintensive scenarios) when another is the state the device is expected to be in a big majority of the time for a majority of users. And secondly, if it's just resolution, then no one would care and I doubt it would've spawned a billion posts about how great an idea it would be. Like I said, expectations are high here.
The X2 upon which it speculated that the custom NX chip might be based isn't being revealed till August 22, so the exact details of the stock chip aren't known yet. But it is the "next generation" Tegra and is based on the same architecture as the new 1080/1070/1060 chips from nVidia.
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