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Windows 10 Anniversary Update breaks Dual Shock 4 drivers.

Danlord

Danlord

Member
Havel said:
This has happened once before, and the current fix at the time was the one you posted. It actually got fixed in a later Windows build.

This one is new though, and the old fixes aren't working this time.
Click to expand...

Oh my bad. I misread your OP and interpreted DS4 not working in general, quickly searched for Exclusive Mode in Google and this was a recommended suggestion from a Reddit thread.
 
I

InsaneTiger

Member
WOW! So many sensitive people. We can't have a little fun?

It was patronizing in that we know it's an OS update and stuff can break, no need for Cartman to say it as if we're dumb. Generally with updates you don't want things to break, to basically say deal with it is dumb. At least that's how I read it.

People are having fun with the Tim comments too.

Seriously MS defense force...chill.
 
S

Seiru

Banned
RexNovis said:
So I need to have used a DS4 on PC in order to comment in this thread? Is that what you are saying? I need to have used a DS4 to voice suspicion about new developments a multi billion dollar company with a history of convictions wherein they ahve exploited their near monopoly to manipulate the market, kill off competing services and take advantage of consumers. Oh ok. I'll be sure to get your personal permission before I comment on anything related Microsoft again.

Is that what you wanted to hear form me? Get outta here with that BS. Questioning the suspicious developments surrounding a company with this sort of history should be the immediate reaction not hand waiving it away. Microsoft isnt your friend they are company trying to collect your money and your data to make more money. Why is it you are rushing in to defend them like they are some unquestionable paragon? They earned their reputation for a reason and until they prove otherwise everyone should suspect they are doing something underhanded. They have not earned the benefit of the doubt in any shape, form, or fashion.
Click to expand...

No, just the basics of what happens when you plug a device into a computer. Like what drivers are, and stuff. And specifically, how the ones for the DS4 work. If anything, you should be angry at Sony for not providing official ones?
 
E

Enter the Dragon Punch

Banned
RexNovis said:
So I need to have used a DS4 on PC in order to comment in this thread? Is that what you are saying? I need to have used a DS4 to voice suspicion about new developments a multi billion dollar company with a history of convictions wherein they ahve exploited their near monopoly to manipulate the market, kill off competing services and take advantage of consumers. Oh ok. I'll be sure to get your personal permission before I comment on anything related Microsoft again.

Is that what you wanted to hear form me? Get outta here with that BS. Questioning the suspicious developments surrounding a company with this sort of history should be the immediate reaction not hand waiving it away. Microsoft isnt your friend they are company trying to collect your money and your data to make more money. Why is it you are rushing in to defend them like they are some unquestionable paragon? They earned their reputation for a reason and until they prove otherwise everyone should suspect they are doing something underhanded. They have not earned the benefit of the doubt in any shape, form, or fashion.
Click to expand...

Ah, yes, good ol' "guilty until proven innocent". Don't pivot towards the company being bad just because you posted about how sketchy it is without actually knowing how it works.

Yes, there's a miniscule chance it was broken on purpose. But the likelihood is that they tweaked something else, and that lead to DS4s not working properly. It will be, like in the past, fixed by Microsoft.
 
R

RexNovis

Banned
jediyoshi said:
No, you have to "hide" it in order to use a third party application to make your system think it's an Xbox controller, because xinput is basically the defacto controller standard. Ironically, this is mostly an issue in games that already have native DS4 support anyway, because the controller ends up being registered twice.

If you want to use a DS4 on a PC. You plug it in.
Click to expand...

killer rin said:
As far as I know, Sony doesn't put out official drivers for the Dual Shock controllers... Which means that if you use it without a community driver it downgrades to Dinput which is the old controller standard
Click to expand...

Huge Succeeded said:
Because when you plug in a PS4 controller, the system sees it as a dinput device (like any random 3rd party PC controller), but you want it to work natively with games that support 360 controllers, so this third party application 'hides' the dinput PS4 controller and translates inputs over to xinput.

You have to hide the dinput so that games that support xinput and direct input at the same time don't leave you doubling every single button press (because d-pad down would count as d-pad down across two 'input devices', the directinput PS4 controller and the xinput wrapper, as opposed to just the one).
Click to expand...

Corpekata said:
It is an issue for other controllers, if you mean D-input ones. Before the Dualshock drivers people would use Xbox360ce for this function. Xinput is a lot easier to use so it saves users a lot of headaches to have a program trick your computer into thinking it's using an Xbox pad rather than hoping for individual game support or hoping games allow remapping.

Most other controllers these days are X-input, even the logitech basic ones that are like 25 dollars tend to either be X-input or have a switch to toggle between X and D.
Click to expand...

Huh ok. I usually only play MMOs on PC and use the keyboard. My only PC related gamepad gaming is a linux emulation setup so I dont have any experience trying to get controllers to work with windows since I used a 360 pad with Windows XP. Just seems like a really odd thing to have to work around to ensure compatibility. Kinda crazy that plug and play isnt more universally compatible these days.

Enter the Dragon Punch said:
holy shit lol is this post real life
Click to expand...

Ya ya. I don't have much experience on the matter. I know now anyway. Doesn't change the fact that its a bit suspect but whatever.
 
dr_rus

dr_rus

Member
One thing everyone should understand really is that, no matter what you've read on some popular website, Windows core updates are still somewhere at appalling level of handling the 3rd party software transition from one version to another. Each big Win10 update is performed in the same way in which Win7->Win8 or Win8->Win10 updates were performed previously. I.e. it breaks so much 3rd party shit that the only proper way of getting to a new Windows version is by installing it from scratch via ISO download.
 
H

Huge Succeeded

Banned
RexNovis said:
So I need to have used a DS4 on PC in order to comment in this thread? Is that what you are saying? I need to have used a DS4 to voice suspicion about new developments a multi billion dollar company with a history of convictions wherein they ahve exploited their near monopoly to manipulate the market, kill off competing services and take advantage of consumers. Oh ok. I'll be sure to get your personal permission before I comment on anything related Microsoft again.

Is that what you wanted to hear form me? Get outta here with that BS. Questioning the suspicious developments surrounding a company with this sort of history should be the immediate reaction not hand waiving it away. Microsoft isnt your friend they are company trying to collect your money and your data to make more money. Why is it you are rushing in to defend them like they are some unquestionable paragon? They earned their reputation for a reason and until they prove otherwise everyone should suspect they are doing something underhanded. They have not earned the benefit of the doubt in any shape, form, or fashion.
Click to expand...

No, it's this simple.

Your immediate suspicion was a direct result of you not knowing what you were talking about.

You chose to spread FUD that you couldn't even back up yourself through the implications you made in your posts. Don't get pissed that you were called out on it.

And I don't appreciate you characterizing me as someone who's white-knighting Microsoft just because I called you out, either.

InsaneTiger said:
Seriously MS defense force...chill.
Click to expand...

And there it is, that transparent attempt to legitimize this thread's stillborn arguments by painting those opposed to you with that undesirable 'defense force' label, as though being able to rationalize this as an unintended consequence of the update is evidence that we're in Microsoft's wheelhouse.
And you wanna talk about others being patronizing? Not wheeling out the defense force shtick would be a great start, because that shit is actually patronizing.
 
M

Mechazawa

Member
Htown said:
doesn't have to be a conspiracy

they just don't have to put a priority on fixing things that break the drivers for the controller they don't want you to buy

it's not even that they intentionally broke it in the first place
Click to expand...

We're talking about unofficial, hobbyist drivers, of which there are, what, thousands? millions? Whatever Microsoft broke, DS4Windows presumably doesn't even register for them in terms of whatever cascade effect that had.
 
R

RexNovis

Banned
Enter the Dragon Punch said:
Ah, yes, good ol' "guilty until proven innocent". Don't pivot towards the company being bad just because you posted about how sketchy it is without actually knowing how it works.

Yes, there's a miniscule chance it was broken on purpose. But the likelihood is that they tweaked something else, and that lead to DS4s not working properly. It will be, like in the past, fixed by Microsoft.
Click to expand...

I mean regardless of whether or not its the norm reading that you have to hide the controllers origins and basically remap it using additional software to ensure compatibility does seem a bit sketchy. I get that its the accepted norm but the fact that more universal plug and play compatibility still isn't thing after so many years of third party controllers is odd imo.

As far as guilty until proven innocent goes yea. I think thats the wisest mindset to take when it comes to the actions of this company. They've consistently shown they dont deserve the benefit of the doubt in any way shape or form so why should I give it to them?
 
K

killer rin

Member
RexNovis said:
Huh ok. I usually only play MMOs on PC and use the keyboard. My only PC related gamepad gaming is a linux emulation setup so I dont have any experience trying to get controllers to work with windows since I used a 360 pad with Windows XP. Just seems like a really odd thing to have to work around to ensure compatibility. Kinda crazy that plug and play isnt more universally compatible these days.



Ya ya. I don't have much experience on the matter. I know now anyway. Doesn't change the fact that its a bit suspect but whatever.
Click to expand...

Plug and play is the universal standard... Just at a base level hardware needs drivers to know how to transmit whatever the hell it is doing to the operating system. The current standard for Controller Drivers is XInput and has been for several years now, it is what most controllers use.

The old standard is DInput which is several decades old and a pain for developers to work with. The XInput standard was made by Microsoft for 360 Controllers and it took over because it is easy for developers to work with. Now Windows still supports DInput, but because it is old, most developers don't spend their time to worry about supporting it; hence why we have community adapters which translate the DInput from the controller to XInput.

Now the problem here is that because Sony doesn't have an official driver for Windows, Windows tries its best to support the DS4 using it's built in "Default" Drivers which will automatically translate it to DInput (because it is the most versatile, so it is guaranteed to be able to translate it over to). But because it is DInput, most stuff wont support it because it is harder and more annoying for Developers to support over XInput.

So to fix this, all that needs to happen is the developers of the DInput to XInput adapters need to update their adapters to support the changes made to XInput

And yes this is a really over-simplified version. The actual answer is way more technical
 
Caayn

Caayn

Member
RexNovis said:
I mean regardless of whether or not its the norm reading that you have to hide the controllers origins and basically remap it using additional software to ensure compatibility does seem a bit sketchy.
Click to expand...
So you're going to blame Microsoft for not providing drivers for Sony hardware? Xinput is the standard on Windows, third parties support it, games support it Sony doesn't.
 
I

InsaneTiger

Member
Huge Succeeded said:
And there it is, that transparent attempt to legitimize this thread's stillborn arguments by painting those opposed to you with that undesirable 'defense force' label, as though being able to rationalize this as an unintended consequence of the update is evidence that we're in Microsoft's wheelhouse.
And you wanna talk about others being patronizing? Not wheeling out the defense force shtick would be a great start, because that shit is actually patronizing
Click to expand...

And there it is. I could say that your statement just proves you are part of the defense force but that would be silly.

Listen I don't care about software not working either way, I just thought I would have a little fun but obviously some folk are too sensitive. I use MS products everyday so I can be critical and joke a bit about but not on GAF.

Peace out.
 
G

gamz

Member
Wait! People actually believe that MS did this on purpose? MS can give a rats ass about a tiny percentage of people using Sony controller with a 3rd party app. Sony should create their own drivers and update so it works. If Sony doesn't it care, why are you people upset?
 
Z

Zukuu

Banned
What's this "anniversary update"? I've been using win 10 for a year and my DS4 works fine (currently playing with it even).
 
T

tuna_love

Banned
InsaneTiger said:
And there it is. I could say that your statement just proves you are part of the defense force but that would be silly.

Listen I don't care about software not working either way, I just thought I would have a little fun but obviously some folk are too sensitive. I use MS products everyday so I can be critical and joke a bit about but not on GAF.

Peace out.
Click to expand...
what a huge overreaction
 
H

Huge Succeeded

Banned
InsaneTiger said:
And there it is. I could say that your statement just proves you are part of the defense force but that would be silly.

Listen I don't care about software not working either way, I just thought I would have a little fun but obviously some folk are too sensitive. I use MS products everyday so I can be critical and joke a bit about but not on GAF.

Peace out.
Click to expand...

L8r
graphics-hands-224461.gif
 
H

Huge Succeeded

Banned
InsaneTiger said:
Nah I'm still here.
Click to expand...

:-x

'sall good, I've been taking shit seriously too, it's just that man, on GAF, FUD becomes widely-accepted and oft-repeated 'truth' far too often. It's one thing to be cautious, but kneejerk assumptions that something like this was intentional is a step beyond caution and something I wouldn't want to coddle.
 
R

RexNovis

Banned
killer rin said:
Plug and play is the universal standard... Just at a base level hardware needs drivers to know how to transmit whatever the hell it is doing to the operating system. The current standard for Controller Drivers is XInput and has been for several years now, it is what most controllers use.

The old standard is DInput which is several decades old and a pain for developers to work with. The XInput standard was made by Microsoft for 360 Controllers and it took over because it is easy for developers to work with. Now Windows still supports DInput, but because it is old, most developers don't spend their time to worry about supporting it; hence why we have community adapters which translate the DInput from the controller to XInput.

Now the problem here is that because Sony doesn't have an official driver for Windows, Windows tries its best to support the DS4 using it's built in "Default" Drivers which will automatically translate it to DInput (because it is the most versatile, so it is guaranteed to be able to translate it over to). But because it is DInput, most stuff wont support it because it is harder and more annoying for Developers to support over XInput.

So to fix this, all that needs to happen is the developers of the DInput to XInput adapters need to update their adapters to support the changes made to XInput

And yes this is a really over-simplified version. The actual answer is way more technical
Click to expand...

Why not default to xinput as the default drivers if compatibility is such an issue with DInput? I'm assuming there's something I'm missing here. They could still support DInput as a legacy driver of some sort. You'd figure thered be some sort of integrated customization XInput mapping implemented by now. Or would that not alleviate controller compatibility concerns for third party controllers?

I mean the linux distro I use for my emulation box literally works by plugging the controller in and customizing the inputs. How is it that linux could implement such a thing but windows can't?

Caayn said:
So you're going to blame Microsoft for not providing drivers for Sony hardware? Xinput is the standard on Windows, third parties support it, games support it Sony doesn't.
Click to expand...

Who said anything about drivers? I was talking about plug and play universal compatibility. Granted its more involved and complicated than I realized but I figured things like this would have been sorted out by now. Worrying about the input method for a given controller and having to do workarounds in order to ensure compatibility just seems like something should be entirely unnecessary. But I'm probably missing some underlying complexity that explains why this can't happen.
 
statham

statham

Member
Huge Succeeded said:
No, it's this simple.

Your immediate suspicion was a direct result of you not knowing what you were talking about.

You chose to spread FUD that you couldn't even back up yourself through the implications you made in your posts. Don't get pissed that you were called out on it.

And I don't appreciate you characterizing me as someone who's white-knighting Microsoft just because I called you out, either.



And there it is, that transparent attempt to legitimize this thread's stillborn arguments by painting those opposed to you with that undesirable 'defense force' label, as though being able to rationalize this as an unintended consequence of the update is evidence that we're in Microsoft's wheelhouse.
And you wanna talk about others being patronizing? Not wheeling out the defense force shtick would be a great start, because that shit is actually patronizing.
Click to expand...

You can tell how they want this thread to go.
 
S

SOR5

Member
statham said:
You can tell how they want this thread to go.
Click to expand...

Before I even entered the thread I had every post visualized in my head

Lets just say apart from a few posters who haven't clicked on yet because of time zones, I've been comedically accurate so far and this is only page 2

Its become a game of checkboxes rather than actually absorbing new or interesting discussion
 
C

CopperPuppy

Member
jediyoshi said:
No, you have to "hide" it in order to use a third party application to make your system think it's an Xbox controller, because xinput is basically the defacto controller standard. Ironically, this is mostly an issue in games that already have native DS4 support anyway, because the controller ends up being registered twice.

If you want to use a DS4 on a PC. You plug it in.
Click to expand...

If I use my DS4 wired on PC will I not have this problem? Apologies for my ignorance here.
 
G

gamz

Member
SOR5 said:
Before I even entered the thread I had every post visualized in my head

Lets just say apart from a few posters who haven't clicked on yet because of time zones, I've been comedically accurate so far and this is only page 2
Click to expand...

Right. So basically any update is going to be a "Sweeney was right!" Even though it's common on OS updates will break things. Agenda's and all of that...
 
J

Jinkies

Member
The onus is on the driver dev; Anniversary Update has been available to developers for months. What broke, exactly?
 
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