Papacheeks
Banned
Guess you haven't kept up on what Andrew house said. And looked at why they didn't go full on with a bigger jump in compute.
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Patrick Klepek: Sony possibly looking at increasing Neo specs due to Scorpio
- Thread starter Obliterator
- Start date
Guess you haven't kept up on what Andrew house said. And looked at why they didn't go full on with a bigger jump in compute.
Because all we have on record are House's actual statements on where they want to take console gaming. They are adamant on not shaking up the foundations of generation cycles and that same bounce to game development with an iterative unit in the middle, whereas MS have been less clear on whether they want annualized upgrades, upgrades whenever die shrinks are available or both with an perpetual forward compatible game library.
Its not happening now, its supposedly something they considered at one point.
I still don't buy this. If the Neo is a stop gap and PS5 is a new generation, then the Neo has an unusually short shelf life.
I still think they'll do a rolling generations thing like iOS and possibly MS. Neo will run Ps5 games but Ps4 won't
What? Its a PS4, it has the same shelf life as a PS4 and has the same games. Its like saying PS3 Slim has an unusually short shelf life compared to original PS3! Why does that matter?
Furthermore, why exactly are you acting like NEO is going to die the second PS5 comes out? Like previous gens, there will be plenty of crossover and time for NEO to lower in price and sell units.
PS2 didn't automatically stop selling because PS3 came out, same with PS1 to PS2.
Also, NEO running PS5 games makes no sense unless your talking about traditional cross gen gaming in which case vanilla PS4 would also run those games and PS5 would be able to run them through BC. The entire reason they are restricting NEO to PS4 games is because its not designed to handle much more than up ported versions of PS4 games to begin with.
You really think that PS5 with ZEN architecture, 16GB HBM3, and a 10+tflop GPU all designed for developers to take full advantage of is going to scale at all with a 4tflop GPU and a tablet CPU from 2013 in 2019-2020?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
If I buy a PS5 I want its hardware fully used before Sony preps and sells PS5 Neo, but the iOS model is nice as it can allow the manufacturer to increase the apparent value and the price and essentially they do not have to deliver all the value in practical scenarios as by the time developers can focus on the exclusive features/improvement that phone model is obsolete. Keep it out of the consoles world please...
People bitching about cross generation games periods are seemingly quiet on this kind of forward compatibility spiel which would just deliver an even longer cross generation phase...
MilkyJoe
Member
Does a 10tflop PC run the same games as a 4tflop PC?
We're not talking about graphics sliders or PC versions of the same games, BF4 could run on PS3 with enough cutting because of the nature of the game, and i'm sure BF Hardline and BF1 could have as well.
I'm talking about games that actually take advantage of the hardware. World density, world size, model complexity, world interactivity, all of this changes with hardware, and at some point, you can't just scale res and some checkboxes down and expect things to stay the same or work in the same way.
MilkyJoe
Member
You can at those numbers. I think you're going to be disappointed with the future.
johnnydrama
Banned
This is a great way to build up consumer distrust and push them towards other platforms. Not only that, this will add to the development cost and times, and eventually start to hinder game development. I know this sounds like a great idea in your head from a fan perspective, but this is highly illogical and impractical for a console.
It really depends on the game. You're not going to be running Star Citizen on a PS4 or Xbox One but you probably could on a Scorpio.
MilkyJoe
Member
Which would fit into the numbers
Caayn
Member
You really don't like the idea that MS might just have a stronger console on the market do you.
I'm totly with you on a this but, those are some pretty high expectations on the PS5 lol. We'll see where we are at when it's announced.
Ascenion
Member
My lord these last few pages. How in the heck did we come to start comparing the Xbox One S to the Neo? Not even remotely close to the same thing. The One S is replacing the Xbox One as the baseline Xbox One experience in the same way the Xbox 360 S replaced the OG 360. It doesn't even need to be in the conversation it isn't relevant.
johnnydrama
Banned
This thread has reached misterxmedia levels at this point tbh.
Fredrik
Member
Wasn't that particular move what people laughed the most at during E3? Announce a new console, show it off, create some hype, then kill it off 30 minuters later by announcing a better console to arrive a year later.
Would you buy a Neo if your example of a more powerful PS4K would arrive next year? I know I wouldn't.
Edit: It's better to just scrap the Neo plans altogether in that example and focus on PS4K next year instead, PS4 is in no need for a minor stop-gap upgrade this year, there is zero threats to it's leadership this year.
I don't think they are all that high really. You can already buy a single GPU 10 TFlop graphics card right now, a console releasing in 3+ years should at the very least match that.
Anyway, I see rolling generations in Sony's future too, it just makes too much sense.
Its 3-4 years down the line, HBM is bound to mature, ZEN will hopefully mature...GPU's will become more affordable and stronger, more RAM densities will become more viable. It just seems like the basic nature of technology to me.
Generational leaps are bound to become less and less big just because of the limitations of silicon and moore's law. But they will still be much greater than an iterative leap like NEO based on the same PS4 components slightly upclocked, which is where i'm placing my bets.
It would be a bad look if their premium model is so thoroughly outclassed by their competitor's product.
They will want the NEO to be competitive, with regards to power; no need to completely cede such a prominent marketing point.
Of course. That is why the Xbox One had and has a bad look because the system is not as powerful as the PS4. But people argued that power is not a reason for success, still.
RetroPlayer
Banned
Why are Sony not pushing to release PS5, rather then messing about with another PS4 clone?
IMO, 2019/20 for the PS5 is too late, unless Sony aren't bothered about competing with Scorpio..
IMO, 2019/20 for the PS5 is too late, unless Sony aren't bothered about competing with Scorpio..
Theonik
Member
Power matters but the Xbone was a disaster on every single front. If it was only power then MS could deal with it.
Scorpio is not really that powerful, though realistically both systems are the most they can cram in their respective years.
Won't be "thoroughly outclassed" if the latter product re-uses underpowered Jaguar cores.
In regards to the cross generational aspect of things,instead of rolling gens, i just think gens will be become slightly more blurred.
Instead of a mandate for PS5 games to be supported on NEO, i think Sony will work to introduce full BC for PS4 and NEO games on PS5. THat way, devs can still work on PS4 and NEO games as much as they want without starting from scratch development wise, and PS5 users can still play those games on their new hardware, while those developers who want to take full advantage of the PS5's upgraded hardware can do so in the NEO way or in the traditional way of creating exclusive titles.
I don't think that mandating devs to support significantly weaker hardware will work. But if they continue on with NEO type refreshes in the middle of numbered cycles, it could work.
Instead of a mandate for PS5 games to be supported on NEO, i think Sony will work to introduce full BC for PS4 and NEO games on PS5. THat way, devs can still work on PS4 and NEO games as much as they want without starting from scratch development wise, and PS5 users can still play those games on their new hardware, while those developers who want to take full advantage of the PS5's upgraded hardware can do so in the NEO way or in the traditional way of creating exclusive titles.
I don't think that mandating devs to support significantly weaker hardware will work. But if they continue on with NEO type refreshes in the middle of numbered cycles, it could work.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
.... if you add "unfortunately" we may almost agree on this. Some people see the limitation of a model focused on cross generation BC but not forward compatibility with iOS like releases (PS4 titles working on PS4K, PS5, PS5K, and PS6... but not PS5 titles running on PS4/PS4K), I see a necessity for the console model to keep working for users although they sacrifice the "I want new HW every year" urge (which would come with its own side effects anyways) and publishers need a bit more effort in the first years of a new generation (less and less than before because of the way Sony and MS are going about HW, OS, and tools upgrades) to keep everything else that works and has worked for decades.
PS3 support aside, Sony has quite a good track record of recognising how much valuable are its past consoles titles as seen in how they pushed BC support in PS2, PS3, and PS Vita. The new bit for developers and the importance on MS and Sony's software side choices is that even if they do not deliver forward compatibility the possibility of reducing the work to compile and take advantage of the new consoles more and more each generation can actually become a reality.
I have iOS and a Mac/PC for those two flavours of HW evolution and software support, I do not need nor do I want consoles to become iOS lite.
Fredrik
Member
The same people? I doubt it. Constantly having the best performance and being the only one achieving the 1080p promise has sold LOTs of PS4s, maybe not day 1 when PS4 also had the price advatage and a little help from MS's previous incompetent PR people but simple word of mouth that PS4 is the most powerful console is definitely a reason why PS4 is popular.
Always was, since the beginning of consoles.
redfox088
Banned
I'd have to disagree, I'm having a hard time recalling many hardware gens where specs won the race.
You didn't mention to win a race but the console wars and they were always also about the hardware.
The power not mattering is another thing which has suddenly popped up with the Neo/Scorpio even though it was the biggest factor on here in 2013 in regards to choosing one of these consoles. Console power has always been a thing, look at this survey for example:
Number 1 for the PS4, more power. I don't think you can get anymore conclusive than that.
Since when? It's always came down to software , price , controller , marketing & hardware
it just so happens that sometimes they was able to market the power of the console but it has never sold it's self.
If power is their plan for selling these new consoles they are dead in the water but luckily they have 4K to use as a marking tool .
Perhaps not really hardware but at least who is able to deliver the "best graphics" as this easier to communicate to the masses than raw hardware specs.
How much which of the variables matter is something we have as many opinions about as we have users on GAF here.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Exclusives are fewer and far between now, and I'd even argue that they're not system sellers anymore. So hardware capability is going to be a big differentiator.
wapplew
Member
We'll see after Scorpio launch, maybe the full picture in 2018?
So, at what point we can say hardware capability is most important? When Scorpio sold better than Neo?
BTW, when can we expect MS to share numbers again?
Fredrik
Member
Tbh, if competition is your thing then specs is the only thing you can really compete with unless there is something else making a console more unique than the rest, great software can pop up anywhere, delays are common too quickly taking the assumed software advantage away.So know the console wars are going to be bogged down to specs instead of software?
Also software is a matter of taste too. Without going by Metacritic, can you honestly say which game is the best, Uncharted 4, Super Mario 3D World or Inside? :/
As for myself, I just want more power in Neo since it might delay it, I was never a fan of the upgrade idea but if my OG PS4 would get a 4 year long generation before getting replaced it would be quite okay imo.
Scorpio is in a far worse situation since XB1 was delayed by a year in my country, even a late 2017 launch would mean that my OG XB1 only lasted 3 years before getting replaced.
I'm sorry but if you skip back to here in 2013/2014 it's all people were saying. Why the complete 180?
Souless_PJ
Banned
Because Sony is on the shit end of the stick so now all the countless resolution war threads for the first year of current gen don't count.
MilkyJoe
Member
*search* Resolution *return*.... Yep, looks about right.
But the power warz did spawn this, so i'm ok with it
SplitYourInfinities
Member
And some people still expects this thing to launch later this year...
Pretty sure, like many, I switched from the X360 to PS4 as my main console due it being more powerful leading to better "ports". And, I plan on switching back once Scorpio comes out.
Not in real world graphics if they "scale".
Witcher 3 medium (~console level) vs ultra needs a GPU approx twice as fast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHTR9hL9mfE
That really doesn't set the world on fire.
Plus according to my own semi-informed caluclations the Neo APU should be smaller (and ultimately cheaper to produce) then the old PS4's APU.
MilkyJoe
Member
That's be an interesting thread poll
I'd argue that the PS2 killed the DC's momentum on power alone (or at least claims of power). Never forget "66m polygons... NURBS... Toy Story graphics". Was pretty much a DVD player on release with its lame software lineup.
They looked to do the same to the Xbox 360 later, and it was almost working ("Xbox 1.5")... until practically their entire E3 was outed as pre-rendered footage.
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