I was so hyped for B&W, was a Bullfrog fan for years and pre-ordered it. Then I got this narrow focused game with very few missions and an AI creature that could have been described as idiotic if I were being kind. I remember watching it launch my populace into the sea despite hours trying to tame it. It was a mess.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
A polite discourse amongst friends on the importance of MP-elements in No Man's Sky
- Thread starter flkraven
- Start date
- Status
I was so hyped for B&W, was a Bullfrog fan for years and pre-ordered it. Then I got this narrow focused game with very few missions and an AI creature that could have been described as idiotic if I were being kind. I remember watching it launch my populace into the sea despite hours trying to tame it. It was a mess.
While I agree with most of your sentiments, it's pretty shortsighted to want lifeforms on planets spread across a galaxy to have physical properties that make sense to you, on Earth.
Well everyone exists in one galaxy, Euclid. However there are more.
You have to make it to the center to get to the next.
Would be quite funny if there was no character model at all.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Really insane that Sean and no one from HG STILL hasn't commented on this controversy. It's been days and still not a single peep about how the (evidently nonexistent) MP works or whether or not it was cut beyond what basically boils down to leaderboards. Literally a yes or no answer.
NoFaceNico
Member
Well realistically you can't expect them to be ready to issue a statement on the matter until Monday at the earliest. I mean, lawyers don't work weekends after all.
Mad Season
Banned
They should. It's broken
FinalHeaven
Neo Member
But it's already happened.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
How long do you think it takes to send out a simple tweet? Better yet, how long to send out a tweet during the days before the PC release while you're simultaneously sending out tweets about how "mindblowing" it is that people are playing the game. No one is expecting a speech to rival the speeches at the DNCs, but simple, quick, concise, answers. Twitter was literally made with that purpose in mind.
I've been on 5 worlds with no life.
I honestly don't think it matters of they send out a tweet. People will continue to be angry either way. Better to ignore the stress of that and focus oh what they CAN fix.
I released the camera via a memory hack, there was no player model visible. There is an astronaut model in the game - I've dumped the .pak files and have access to every object in the game - but so far haven't been able to find it in use. There are a bunch of assets which appear not to be used, eg laser sword etc.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
People would be angry about them taking much longer than they needed to to respond to a controversy especially in comparison to other developers who're on the ball about responding to controversies as they come out. But at least we'd have answers about the situation.
TheSpoiler
Member
No they won't. Some will, but please don't speak as if consumers aren't willing to forgive, especially when many people in this thread have openly stated they'd be fine with an answer either way.
Besides, as a brand, it benefits them to clear the air and restores faith in their product.
I didn't say everyone would be angry.
As a brand, they're currently doing pretty well. I think you're overestimating the importance of this "controversy".
I see the indie game excuse over and over and but watch the very initial reveals and even they show how ambitious they were with this game.
I don't swallow the indie game bullshit at all, they were a small studio that bit off more than they could chew and then when picked up by Sony they have been swept along in the infamy of the whole thing.
I'm hoping one of two things.
Either a big studio attempts the same thing but fulfils all of the promises or a small studio again but with an initial smaller release the evolves over time into something great exactly how mine craft did it.
I don't swallow the indie game bullshit at all, they were a small studio that bit off more than they could chew and then when picked up by Sony they have been swept along in the infamy of the whole thing.
I'm hoping one of two things.
Either a big studio attempts the same thing but fulfils all of the promises or a small studio again but with an initial smaller release the evolves over time into something great exactly how mine craft did it.
It's important enough for you to post every now and then "the developer is always right".
LyleLanley
Banned
That's a great way to treat your customers. It would take all of 30 seconds to give some clarity on this issue.
TheSpoiler
Member
Yeah, "people will be angry either way" implies those who care at all aren't going to be satisfied.
And after the abysmal PC launch, I wouldn't say they are doing all that great. Any goodwill helps. The only reason this isn't blown up is because there's no official confirmation and most journalistic outlets don't know what gossi did or how it relates to anything.
I literally never said that even once, and, in fact, said the opposite.
Nice trolling.
For the record - a few journalists have tracked me down. So far, I have not answered, because I want to give Hello Games chance to, well, sleep. As I've always said, the online reaction to the multiplayer issue by (a minority of) fans scares me. This isn't the Kennedy assassination.
I didn't say it was literally.
It wasn't meant to imply that, but I can see where the confusion comes from. My bad! To clarify: there will continue to be an overabundance of angry people, no matter what they do at this point.
I certainly don't disagree that it's important they address the issue eventually. I'm just saying that they're currently busy as fuck, and I think it's stupidly unfair to expect them to be perfect in handling the situation this thread thinks is most important. They have their own priorities.
You made a false accusation, and refuse to apologize for it when called out. At least I know I can ignore you from now on.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Yeah, come on guys, won't someone think of the indie devs? Do you guys even know how hard it is to work on fixes when you are wading through so much dough? I mean it's not like you paid much for the game in the first place...
Krappadizzle
Member
One could argue that it's unfair that the developers have gone on record for years talking about multiplayer possibilities and then the day before release, after years of waiting, come out and say "don't go looking for a multiplayer experience" in this game. To hype a game about being essentially an infinite playground that you could potentially play with your friends and then literally 1 day before it comes out say "don't try to play with your friends" while charging $60 is a bit unfair and unprofessional. They want that $60 like the big boys? They need to be able to take the criticisms and answer for their lack of promised features or they will lose future potential sales. I really don't understand the mentality of people who don't understand and defend them. It's okay to criticize things you don't like in products you pay for in hopes that if future versions of that thing come out, they have the improvements you want. Or were told you would get.
I don't think people are as angry as you think, I'm certainly not, but I would like answers. And in this day of information at the speed of thought, it shouldn't be too hard to answer these simple questions.
It's not a false accusation. You just said that they're right in not responding about the MP and inventing two excuses on their behalf.
Your sarcasm is unwarranted, inappropriate, and kind of offensive.
Do you have anything valid to say, or are you just going to be a jerk?
I mean just look at the way some people in this thread are responding to me lol
It's kind of absurd!
Do you have anything valid to say, or are you just going to be a jerk?
I mean just look at the way some people in this thread are responding to me lol
It's kind of absurd!
cartographer
Member
Nobody is expecting perfection. That went out the window a long time ago. Perfection would have been communicating clearly before launch.
Timely is out the window, too. People are just asking for competent clear communication at this point. This is hardly unreasonable.
Yeah, come on guys, won't someone think of the indie devs? Do you guys even know how hard it is to work on fixes when you are wading through so much dough? I mean it's not like you paid much for the game in the first place...
Yeah, poor little indies that have commercials on TV during Olympics (Spanish television).
What's clear is that Sean misrepresented this game. Is the game still good? I think so. For what it is (a single-player indie game made by a very small team,) I think it succeeds impressively and I am enjoying the simple but beautiful gameplay loop.
That said, the way Sean presented this game painted a FAR different picture than the reality of the final product. Not just being able to see other players, but the descriptions of a huge universe and being able to fly off into the abyss... of solar systems with real celestial mechanics governing them... no skyboxes but instead real celestial bodies.
He did not present it as a game of maps you zone between with skybox stars containing a cluster of planets that have no effect on each other. He did not present the 18 quintillion planets as "18,000,000,000,000,000,000 possible permutations of procedurally-generated variables," but instead a literal universe full of as many planets with the actual size of a physical universe containing them, each of which would be procedurally-generated as encountered.
He definitely made it explicitly sound like the rarity of encountering another player was due to the SIZE of the universe. I think it's safe to say we ALL assumed that he meant that. We see now that this is not the case. Crossing paths with others is somewhat common, which indicates a fairly small physical universe. It's merely the difference in procedural generation from planet to planet that provides for the large "number" of planets, and we have seen that the actual manifestations of these planet types are not overly-diverse. Two otherwise identical planets with some different flora placement and toxicity levels are two different planets for the purposes of "diversity" here.
So yeah I like the game, but I feel like only the game Sean described to us is worth $60. Hell, I would pay $100 for the game Sean described. The game that was released is a very pretty and imaginative indie game that is far more humble than the game Sean pitched to us in multiple ways. It's not even so much the pricing that bothers me... It's that I was really looking forward to the game Sean directly told interviewers we would be getting.
And sure, things happen during development and things often have to be scaled back or even scrapped, but for someone so active on Twitter who has been nothing but talkative about the game to say nothing of this is pretty irresponsible, in my opinion.
We got a different game than was pitched to us. Is it still good? Sure, but that is irrelevant in regard to the issue of honest representation.
That said, the way Sean presented this game painted a FAR different picture than the reality of the final product. Not just being able to see other players, but the descriptions of a huge universe and being able to fly off into the abyss... of solar systems with real celestial mechanics governing them... no skyboxes but instead real celestial bodies.
He did not present it as a game of maps you zone between with skybox stars containing a cluster of planets that have no effect on each other. He did not present the 18 quintillion planets as "18,000,000,000,000,000,000 possible permutations of procedurally-generated variables," but instead a literal universe full of as many planets with the actual size of a physical universe containing them, each of which would be procedurally-generated as encountered.
He definitely made it explicitly sound like the rarity of encountering another player was due to the SIZE of the universe. I think it's safe to say we ALL assumed that he meant that. We see now that this is not the case. Crossing paths with others is somewhat common, which indicates a fairly small physical universe. It's merely the difference in procedural generation from planet to planet that provides for the large "number" of planets, and we have seen that the actual manifestations of these planet types are not overly-diverse. Two otherwise identical planets with some different flora placement and toxicity levels are two different planets for the purposes of "diversity" here.
So yeah I like the game, but I feel like only the game Sean described to us is worth $60. Hell, I would pay $100 for the game Sean described. The game that was released is a very pretty and imaginative indie game that is far more humble than the game Sean pitched to us in multiple ways. It's not even so much the pricing that bothers me... It's that I was really looking forward to the game Sean directly told interviewers we would be getting.
And sure, things happen during development and things often have to be scaled back or even scrapped, but for someone so active on Twitter who has been nothing but talkative about the game to say nothing of this is pretty irresponsible, in my opinion.
We got a different game than was pitched to us. Is it still good? Sure, but that is irrelevant in regard to the issue of honest representation.
NoFaceNico
Member
Oh fuk, I was just reading responses without looking at usernames and for a second I thought someone else was responding to you.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
It's just baffling how so many people can be on the opposite side of the consumers.
I see it every day though in my community work. Even though I know it's normal for people to be ok with being "pooped" on from on high when it comes to money it's still sad for me to see it whenever it happens.
I was talking to a fellow city council member the other day and he was telling me how he quit as soon as he figured out that the system was corrupt because it's set up totally in favor of the rich vs the poor and they get away with it because people are just so conditioned to lay back and take it because they legitimately can't imagine being able to change things and make them better. There just isn't a way provided to them to do so.
I mean, they tried so hard to get people to come to the city council meetings but no one would ever show. At one point they even raised local taxes by an absurd amount and no one even called in. The only thing that worked was coincidentally the day he got up and quit out of disgust. They made it a city ordinance that if you walked your dog it had to have a leash... The entire courthouse was packed all the way outside down the sidewalk and to the corner of the block with people complaining...
It's very sad that people can't see how it would be a good thing for not only the industry but also Hello Games if they where to set a precedent for being open and honest with their consumers. The sad part is that yeah, even if they did come out now people would still be upset and rightfully so because Hello Games just sat back and racked in the dough in a lot of peoples eyes when they could have cleared up the issue for the most part with a simple statement. The gaming media are giving the gamers a chance here to make a positive impact with our voices but our voices need to be loud in order to be heard. The media had given HG a chance to get out of jail free so to speak by reaching out to them about the issue in the hopes that they would give a statement that would clear this all up for the consumers before launch.
This is something that in my world at least, is very rare. It saddens me that people would come in and try to stamp out the efforts of those who are trying to lobby for change.
HG may be an indie team yes, they may be small, but what they aren't is dumb. I can't believe they didn't see this coming. No matter how charming people in business and office ever seem there is absolutely no reason to just give them your trust, especially after they are profiting off of you. I see it all the time, people taking advantage of others whom you wouldn't believe where capable of doing so.
If you don't think this is a big deal, great. Just please, respect that we do and let us keep trying.
I see it every day though in my community work. Even though I know it's normal for people to be ok with being "pooped" on from on high when it comes to money it's still sad for me to see it whenever it happens.
I was talking to a fellow city council member the other day and he was telling me how he quit as soon as he figured out that the system was corrupt because it's set up totally in favor of the rich vs the poor and they get away with it because people are just so conditioned to lay back and take it because they legitimately can't imagine being able to change things and make them better. There just isn't a way provided to them to do so.
I mean, they tried so hard to get people to come to the city council meetings but no one would ever show. At one point they even raised local taxes by an absurd amount and no one even called in. The only thing that worked was coincidentally the day he got up and quit out of disgust. They made it a city ordinance that if you walked your dog it had to have a leash... The entire courthouse was packed all the way outside down the sidewalk and to the corner of the block with people complaining...
It's very sad that people can't see how it would be a good thing for not only the industry but also Hello Games if they where to set a precedent for being open and honest with their consumers. The sad part is that yeah, even if they did come out now people would still be upset and rightfully so because Hello Games just sat back and racked in the dough in a lot of peoples eyes when they could have cleared up the issue for the most part with a simple statement. The gaming media are giving the gamers a chance here to make a positive impact with our voices but our voices need to be loud in order to be heard. The media had given HG a chance to get out of jail free so to speak by reaching out to them about the issue in the hopes that they would give a statement that would clear this all up for the consumers before launch.
This is something that in my world at least, is very rare. It saddens me that people would come in and try to stamp out the efforts of those who are trying to lobby for change.
HG may be an indie team yes, they may be small, but what they aren't is dumb. I can't believe they didn't see this coming. No matter how charming people in business and office ever seem there is absolutely no reason to just give them your trust, especially after they are profiting off of you. I see it all the time, people taking advantage of others whom you wouldn't believe where capable of doing so.
If you don't think this is a big deal, great. Just please, respect that we do and let us keep trying.
Well I'm officially confused!
I always understood it as being generated from a seed, but wait, there aren't that many planets, just the possibility of that many planets? So how many planets are actually in the game? Is there an estimate?
There are that many planets. The seed and equations produce that many. However there are technical limits. Each solar system is a 'zone' - you can't fly between them, there are loading screens in between. You cannot fly to the sun. Each zone only has a fairly small number of close planets. When you're on a planet you'll notice the planets you see in the sky don't seem to move - because they don't. If you pause the game in the Options menu, either on PS4 or PC, the entire game world stops - including time and AI.
When you dig into the assets via datamining - I'll probably produce a tutorial - it's the same kind of objects and textures reused.
None of this is a slam for me. This game is so much more accessible than, say, Elite. And actually final product delivered and playable, unlike say Star Citizen. They made technical choices. I think the fact this game had 80k Reddit subscribes before launch -- that's a very high number! -- suggests the marketing worked. They sold millions. Good on 'em. If these kinda details are important for people, don't pre-order.
What's really damning is these bits in interviews where they start talking about the game as though it's using real-life physics, like having to "redesign atmospheric particles".
Like, what the hell? That's not how games work. Why did no one call them out on this months ago?
Without knowing the algorithm they use for generation, I wouldn't call them out on that specific thing. It's possible is taken into account during generation, and then simplified into a basic "sky color" value when rendered.
Obviously I can't guarantee that's how it's done, but I can definitely say that it makes sense to me, as a programmer who is very very interested in procedural generation. Dunno if I'd end up doing out that way, but hey. It's possible.
They didn't even bother to have conditionals so the combinations of weather, plants, and animals make sense, so I very much doubt there's anything more behind the colour of the sky than a colour palette swap.
The "Newtonian physics" part is also BS, because neither do planets and moons rotate nor do they orbit anything. Oh, and the gravity's the same everywhere.
So because some people will not change their attitude no matter what, nobody should get an answer to a product they paid $60 for?
Doubt all you want! I'm just saying it's possible it works that way, and it makes sense from a certain point of view.
Wow that's exactly what I said!
...
Look, I'm done responding to people who are just going to be disingenuous like this. Sorry, dude.
I think their algorithm can be fairly questioned when you have a a planet full of life at -70C. I've had areas literally jump from -60C to over 70C in between mere footsteps.
You globbed all consumers of this game as some hive mind singular entity called "people" that can have attributes assigned to all of them. Some will be mad, some will understand. You don't make choices because some will be mad.
When will you start replying to them? I hope this week lol
- Status