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No Man's Sky PC Version doesn't work on older CPUs
- Thread starter ambar_hitman
- Start date
CharmingCharlie
Member
I think that might be jumping to conclusions. If you actually read what the guy says :-
To me that reads as "they aren't going to make the game work, they are just going to stop it from crashing". Probably instead of crashing you will get a message that comes up saying "your PC is below the minimum requirements for the game".
I dunno I could be wrong. I just think people need to err on the side of caution here.
Even if you hand-write asm for some ISA, it's highly unlikely you'd have no high-level fallback for it, and that's usually affordable for desktop grade CPUs anyway.blu said:
We're talking about sub-systems that are predominantly written in high-level languages, so SIMD "support" typically boils down to intrinsic versions of some vector classes. Which fall under what I mention above - 99% of the time you'd have your non SIMD version of such classes for debugging purposes if nothing else.Vanishing Avatar said:
And if you're doing something more involved (like writting larger loops entirely in SIMD intrinsics) you'd be better off looking at GPGPU anyway.
DeadlyVirus
Member
It hasn't crashed once in the 10 hours I've played
If Hello Games want's mine and everyone elses money they'll sure as hell will fix it.
DonMigs85
Member
Yeah all pre-Bulldozer AMD CPUs only had up to SSE4A. As for Intel, the 45nm Core 2 chips were the first to have SSE 4.1
Generally every game released the past few years has already required SSE2 support. I believe Chrome and Firefox do too. Wonder how many years before AVX is required.
Generally every game released the past few years has already required SSE2 support. I believe Chrome and Firefox do too. Wonder how many years before AVX is required.
CharmingCharlie
Member
Hm looking at the 212k playing No Mans Sky on steam right now I get the feeling Hello Games won't go out of their way to cater for a few that are using decade old cpu's.
Look you might be right, they might make it work, I hope they do. However I am saying from that statement there is NO indication that they will make the game work with SSE 4.1 less cpu's.
Sean Murray ‏@NoMansSky 14m14 minutes ago
It's been a very long night, a lot of the team are still here though! We are currently testing fixes for older AMD Phenom CPUs + more
Seems they're working of actually resolving it.
jakonovski
Member
Ok so is there a game currently that legit needs sse 4.1? This one sure doesn't seem like one.
DonMigs85
Member
They're cutting out AMD processors released as recently as 2010 without the SSE 4.1 instruction set.
Edit: Good to hear they're working on compatibility. These old processors are still good
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
SSE4.1 could simply have been checked for and if the CPU doesn't support it fallback to say c++ code that does instead of crashing.
This is a newbie programming error.
This is a newbie programming error.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
You're fine, but do yourself a favour and replace it with a 6 core second hand 5650
Thanks for the tip.
My second system needs an upgrade and the 5670s I find on ebay will do nicely.
Vanishing Avatar
Member
Most games have these days use a maths library that wrap the SSE operations. I suspect that's where they use the SSE 4.1 operations. If so, it makes a fallback slightly harder, because if you test if SSE 4.1 is available before every operation, the extra branches may end up being slower than any gain for such a small piece of code. But I'm guessing here- the most likely explanation is they have a DotProduct() function somewhere that they've over optimised but is used everywhere. If it's just used in one place in a hand-optimised loop then it's easy to fix it on old CPUs without harming performance on newer ones.
GPGPU is usually not the answer - it usually has higher latency than running CPU code, and is not suitable for many types of code. If you look at a typical game the number of CPU vector operations every frame is huge, using the GPU for all of it wouldn't make sense.
texhnolyze
Banned
This kind of sentiment is always depressing to see in these old AMD CPU discussions.
MissCauthon
Member
Didnt Sean just tweet that they are arr working for a fix for older cpu's on his twitter? He said they are working on a fix for Phenom
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Yes he did. I didn't expect them to patch this but I was wrong. I'm glad they are going to fix it.
Noone does runtime selection at that granularity. Even if branches were free, you throw away all compiler optimizations - the whole point is to choose at compile time, and the only runtime selection is at granularity of large-scale modules (eg. load physics with FPU or SSE type of thing).Vanishing Avatar said:
The entire point was that whatever math primitives you use, if you have SIMD optimized version of them, you would also maintain at least the regular C++ counterpart for debugging purposes.
Read the context - there were no references to broadly generalized usage of that sort. The question posed was in reference to large code-blocks hand-crafted with SIMD intrinsics.
Yeah it can lol. If it didn't improve performance it wouldn't be used.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Dorothy? Sorry, do we know each other?
I'm not Sean
Perhaps. Then again, the dev of the game may not have written the code themselves, it suffices they used some popular ps4 library or some such. Point being, if the game originated on the ps4, it's not entirely improbable some sse4.1 code sneaked in. Or they consciously shipped it, underestimating their non-SSE4.1 hw base, while also forgetting to mention that in their sys reqs page - who knows.
Aside from the GPGPU part which I generally disagree with (whether GPGPU would be of use largely depends on the latency requirements of the situation and where the data were heading to, among other factors), you're right - most serious PC sw does have DISABLE_FANCY_ISA_EXTENSIONS build flags.
SmoothRunningGun
Member
Da fuck is SSE 4.1? You have to know that shit to buy a game? Lol
ambar_hitman
Member
Then why doesn't any game apart from NMS force it? And NMS devs are patching it too.
ethomaz
Banned
Others games required SSE4.1 at launch AMD I don't if they were patched.
And from the patch looks like they will fix the crash to show a friendly message... I didn't read anything saying they will remove the use of SSE4.1 from the code.
Stitch
Gold Member
Earth Defense Force 4.1 also crashed if your CPU didn't support it. They fixed it a few days ago.
You shouldn't as this should not be happening.
ambar_hitman
Member
Yeah EDF and mgs v. But nothing says SSE 4.1 improves performance drastically. Devs just removed it's requirement like forcing it was a mistake.
Are you seriously arguing that a developer is using SSE for anything other than performance optimization?
ambar_hitman
Member
The patch will make sure game runs on non SSE 4.1 supporting CPUs. Just like mgs v and EDF patch. Both games run fine now and don't force SSE 4.1. This is what general expectation is.
NMS devs aren't going to just to display a friendly message and stop running the game, when they know these CPUs are more than capable of running the game. That would be hilarious if they do that though lol.
There are like 1000s of posts on steam forums complaining about this exact issue. All AMD phenom owners, waiting eagerly for patch as Sean said they are testing game on AMD phenom CPUs. If the fix is to show just a "friendly" message instead of crash, then they have another thing coming.
Are you suggesting that EDF and mgs v games got rid of that so called performance optimization for non SSE4.1 CPUs when they removed it via patch? I know people can run those games great on older CPUs. So that optimization just vanished in thin air???
Ploid 3.0
Member
All I know is it unlocks computer floppy drive's maximum potential. It's about time developers like lensoftruth had full access to it without having to make sure CPUs without it ran as well. /s
I have a Phenom II and it runs they use SSE4a. It seems like probably just an alternate branch above 3 for AMD.
Hellgardia
Member
I have a x6 1055t laying around and now i'm curious to try it out
Cuban Legend
Member
which Phenom II do you have?
So, they're wrong about havok requiring SSSE3? Weird.
955
Oh sorry I thought that was a typo for SSE3 which I think is a separate thing? I don't really know enough about it to comment so I'l trust them
The game does at least start at this point but crashes out during the initial star tour thing so maybe it crashes when the Havok bass drops idk
2002whitegt
Member
EDIT: Wrong Thread
ambar_hitman
Member
Wtf when does Havok force SSSE3 now? Is this some new Havok version?
http://steamcommunity.com/app/275850/discussions/7/360672304897578119/
Not sure when they started requiring it, maybe when they put out that new more optimized version a few years back.
ambar_hitman
Member
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_using_Havok
Out of these, latest are Wwe 2k15 and Dark Souls 3 which use Havok. Both run at 1080p60fps maxed out on my PC. No idea what version of Havok are these NMS guys using.
1 crash in 12 hours, luckily the game saved only a few seconds before.
ambar_hitman
Member
Havok's latest version for Windows was released in 2011.
I call BS on devs blaming Havok for SSSE 3. I suggest everyone with Phenom II get a refund and forget about this game. I don't think it will be fixed, ever.
I call BS on devs blaming Havok for SSSE 3. I suggest everyone with Phenom II get a refund and forget about this game. I don't think it will be fixed, ever.
jakonovski
Member
This is now officially the only game in existence that doesn't support my processor (or at least that's what I'm thinking based on all these acronyms). Putting it in the bad port category, so no real desire to upgrade for it either.
Jedipottsy
Member
I know im gonna get a lot of flak for this, but seriously - don't cheap out on CPU's, yeah you can technically get away with lower end CPU's, but don't. The amount of people sticking 980+ power GPU's with either an AMD CPU, or a very old intel (i7 920) is ridiculous. Ever heard of bottle-necking? I'd bet in a few cases atleast a cpu/ram upgrade and a lower end GPU would provide better results for some users.
Lets face it guys, you didn't buy an old AMD CPU because it was the best, you got it because you were cheap, and you obviously get what you pay for.
Now this might have had SSE4.1 flags enabled on compile, even though it is not required, so disabling that flag and re-compiling might fix it, or SSE4.1 might be required (lets face it, its a CPU heavy game - and by that i'm not talking about pure power, but complexity)
After all what do you think instruction sets are? Miscellaneous fluff just to artificially inflate a games requirements? No, they give the CPU a helping hand at doing incredibly complicated instructions quickly. It's probably a compile flag that can be disabled and isn't a hard requirement, but who knows for certain until a patch it out?
Lets face it guys, you didn't buy an old AMD CPU because it was the best, you got it because you were cheap, and you obviously get what you pay for.
Now this might have had SSE4.1 flags enabled on compile, even though it is not required, so disabling that flag and re-compiling might fix it, or SSE4.1 might be required (lets face it, its a CPU heavy game - and by that i'm not talking about pure power, but complexity)
After all what do you think instruction sets are? Miscellaneous fluff just to artificially inflate a games requirements? No, they give the CPU a helping hand at doing incredibly complicated instructions quickly. It's probably a compile flag that can be disabled and isn't a hard requirement, but who knows for certain until a patch it out?
Dee Dah Dave
Member
^^The first i7's are still fine if you have them up near 4GHz. Sure there are better CPU's but one of those can still handle most stuff, even coupled with a high end GPU.
Swap it out for a Xeon is even better. 50% more CPU power and better overclockability for peanuts!
Swap it out for a Xeon is even better. 50% more CPU power and better overclockability for peanuts!
ambar_hitman
Member
Holy shit did they just remove entire No Man's Sky forum from Steam???
EDIT: Some minor issue I guess. Its back on
EDIT: Some minor issue I guess. Its back on
jakonovski
Member
I'll bite.
What are you even talking about? I bought the Phenom II seven years ago and it's been running every game no problem since. NMS is merely the bad port exception that confirms the rule. I fully expect other games to keep working flawlessly and will only upgrade once games start demanding too much power or the hardware breaks down.