I'm not necessarily against them doing this in the long. What I am against is you guys paying Triple AAA prices for an early-access tech demo without knowing it.
I'm glad I decided at the last minute to not fund this.
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Reddit Compiles Definitive List of All NMS Missing Features/False Marketing +Sources
- Thread starter 213372bu
- Start date
I'm not necessarily against them doing this in the long. What I am against is you guys paying Triple AAA prices for an early-access tech demo without knowing it.
I'm glad I decided at the last minute to not fund this.
Adam_Vania
Banned
i am having trouble parsing the game having a "lack of communication" leading to a "wild range of expectations" with the game also having a "specific product with clearly communicated goals". you are contradicting yourself left and right here.
either it was ambiguous how the game was going to end up or there were "clearly communicated goals" all along the way. the clearly communicated goals seems to be something made up imo, as evidenced by the fact that there was a "wild range of expectations".
None of the info in the article is new and the bit where they talked to him directly was before launch as implied in the article. Not sure what people are making a fuss over (in this particular instance)
There's good reason to be angry at him, but nothing is new in that article.
They communicated a few things, several of which were lies, then were vague about the details of those and anything else. It's really not that complicated.
Trilobit
Member
chillybright
Banned
Sean Murry in a nutshell.
sandkiller
Member
There is no contradiction. People presumed there were some features in the game that were ultimately not, such as actual physical simulations of the universe. They presumed this because, well, that's what Sean told people were definitely in the game. Other features he hemmed and hawwed on, such as multiplayer, leading to debate about the extent of its presence or whether or not he even advocated for it in the first place.
As a result, people were misinformed when buying the game (and on top of that the game seems to be a buggy mess anyway), leading to the backlash you're seeing now. Had Sean simply reigned in his statements from the beginning and communicated changes and scope more properly like any other competent developer running a business, versus lying by omission and avoiding questions, then the backlash would be significantly toned down.
wowbaggerBR
Member
No Man's Sky build up and release is the train wreck of the ages.
Zomba13
Member
It means they will do updates and patch things but aren't committing to syaing what those might be so that people can't say "but you said ___". I think it shows they've learnt. Though they still included the stupid stuff about base and freighter building in their patch notes and we know we won't be getting that stuff.
Literally the worst source you could have provided. I'm surprised they didn't somehow make it about immigrants and benefit claimants somehow.
Adam_Vania
Banned
they were lies as much as going back to the first draft of a movie is a lie. or the rough sketches an artist does before they make a painting is a lie.
i do think the game has major problems like the planets all having a single biome and the bases all looking exactly the same. but for me they haven't lied.
for them to lie the game would have to not be a seamless space flight game. the game passed with flying colors in this regard. it is not a let down, it is not a downgrade. you see some GORGEOUS space scene while zooming through the stars. i like how hyperdrive and the other speed-up modes are attaches to specific buttons rather than a menu: you really do feel like you are punching the hyperdrive!
the seamlessness is a HUGE success and is highly original and very convincing. imo some of the 'missing features' like realistic physics would result in a LESS pleasing game. in many places while playing i would come upon some crazy surreal alignment of planets and a giant sunrise casting a corona around one of them, some kind of amazing vista that would never happen with realistic physics, no matter how you tried to bend them with your bs "table of elements".
i'll leave it at this, the game delivers fully on it's main promise. the killer app of seamless space travel. it is beautiful, pulling up a distant star and punching the hyperdrive, that psychedelic stream of (boo lying unrealistic phsyics) stars and galaxies zooming by, all seamless. in VR this game would be a trip!
jim-jam bongs
Member
Broke my golden rule and preordered this when it was on sale at GOG, probably when drunk. Still haven't downloaded it, since the PC version apparently runs like an old poodle with arthritis. Given that and the pretty clear campaign of dishonesty around promoting the game over the past couple of years, I deeply regret handing over my money to these shady characters.
semiconscious
Member
...Jacksinthe
Banned
"I'm going to paint the most beautiful woman ever!"
*Paints a bowl of fruit*
"Star Wars will be an epic space opera!"
*Makes movie about Pirates of the Caribbean*
If that's how you mean it, sure.
I and many others already covered the "B-B-B-BUT things change!" aspect.
You are free to read the rest of the thread so you don't try to make the same posts others have and failed.
Emperor_Uriel
Member
Two things:
First, the consumer is not typically exposed to sketches or early shoots of a movie as a marketing tool. Movie trailers are almost always comprised of scenes from the final release. If all of the good scenes showcased in a movie trailer were cut from the final version, you're damn right that people would be justifiably pissed.
Second, if the argument is "you can't base you expectations for the final product on old footage," then why does the Steam page still have that footage front and center?
They're being deceptive. Sean Murray is now a multi-millionaire because he duped a massive audience, it's just that simple.
Adam_Vania
Banned
but in all the concept art, in all the screenshots, in all the hours of pre-release footage, nobody has seen a multiplayer avatar. you must mislead yourself, denying all visual evidence, to think they were broadcasting a heavy multiplayer component here.
Movies aren't sold to consumers based on a rough draft, nor are paintings.
It's clear that, because No Man's Sky is a space exploration/survival game that technically features at least a minimal implementation of its basic features, you're mostly satisfied. You don't care how egregiously Hello Games has treated its customers.
Again, read the list of missing or watered down features. Read all of it. Don't skim it, don't stop on one small feature and try to use its minimal nature to discredit the list, read all of it. Some of them are quite large, such as the massive reduction in trading features. Many of the sources go back to recent interviews and footage still being used to sell the game. Hello Games had no problem selling the game based on these features, and had no problem failing to mention that the features had been cut, or had never even existed.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/4y1h9i/wheres_the_no_mans_sky_we_were_sold_on_a_big_list/
Permanently A
Junior Member
God I wish someone would fucking ask him about his Colbert interview.
Adam_Vania
Banned
for real? movies have had cut scenes featured in trailers for decades. there are whole encyclopedias worth of deleted scenes used in trailers on tv tropes
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NeverTrustATrailer
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/NeverTrustATrailer/Film
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/NeverTrustATrailer/VideoGames
They are a tiny team, though! How can you expect them to use more up-to-date game footage and screens when they are emotionally engaging in the "grander idea of exploration?"
The actual words and images don't matter any more than the rotations of planets do. They are just ideas that make us feel stuff. No Man's Sky is about feeling things, not the things themselves.
It really doesn't matter when Sean said himself that you could see other people in the game in the Colbert interview. The man lied.
It's not a seamless space travel. You can't travel from one star system to another without a loading screen. You can't travel to the stars. It not seamless at all, it's loading a set of fixed planets at once and that's pretty much it. They actually lied about what you say it was the main promise.
And Sean lied about it 6 months before launch:
Lies, lies, lies.
Nicktendo86
Member
Ok, pretty sure you are just on a wind up now. I'm not sure how anyone could seriously argue 'ignore what the man said would be in the game, if you didn't see what he promised in footage provided you have yourself to blame'.
state_vector_collapse
Member
That isn't strictly true. I have been reading an old issue of Edge the last couple of days and in it there is a feature on this game. They have a page of concept art showing an ATV type vehicle (with an avatar next to it) and also another large moon buggy-ish vehicle with two characters next to it.
It has an interview with Sean Murray where they specifically ask about how Hello Games will avoid players being "dickish" toward one another. You can't be dickish toward another player unless you are actually in the same game as them.
Sean's defenders have only victim blaming at this point, really. We were asking for it by assuming he was telling the truth.
themadcowtipper
Smells faintly of rancid stilton.
Why you so down on Hello Games, they are a small indie team doing things different. Don't you know how hard and stressfull game development is....
Emperor_Uriel
Member
A few pages worth of movies with shitty, deceptive marketing vs thousands of movies with accurate trailers. The point still stands. And as the trope titles imply, these sorts of lies are rightfully reviled.
The Beastcast crew had it right. Just as the Killzone 2 reveal backlash prompted many devs to label demos as "real gameplay," the No Man's Sky backlash should similarly prompt them to openly distinguish between "target renders" and "finalized gameplay."
Or everyone can just adopt Bethesda's Fallout 4 approach and announce the game very close to release, when the core features are set in stone.
This is feasible because the presumed nature of the game was such that it was so huge that the possibility of meeting another player would be very small, and had it happened it would've been a special occasion that would've been better spared from spoiler marketing anyway, similar to how Aonuma says it's possible to beat Breath of the Wild almost immediately; they're not gonna show a speedrun to the final boss to justify this claim. He's asking us to believe that this is possible by merely saying it's so. If he's lied about this, I expect his feet to be held to the fire as well (although BotW's marketing has actually been accurate across all venues- trailers and interviews/showcases- that I'm liable to believe him on the basis of consistency.)
However, Sean said you could nonetheless find and see another player should this possibility occur. This isn't the case as confirmed by players themselves. On top of that, no code has surfaced showing any hint of any developmental features pertaining to multiplayer features such as meeting other players, factions, space battles and the like (?), meaning the evidence suggests it was never there, meaning he should have deconfirmed it when asked about multiplayer instead of being ambiguous. If a developer's words aren't matching their visuals, then there is a problem.
baxter2231
Member
So Seans a snake oil salesman essentially?
themadcowtipper
Smells faintly of rancid stilton.
Downloaded new patch, game crashes, And people expect supstantial updates?
Glad I picked up Divinity Original Sin during the Flash Sale today to hold me over until at least they get the crashing fixed.
Glad I picked up Divinity Original Sin during the Flash Sale today to hold me over until at least they get the crashing fixed.
Adam_Vania
Banned
yeah you guys are right, he's a liar and we should limit game maker's free speech unless they are official PR. good idea.
are people advocating limiting free speech (as in preventing someone from talking) or are they wanting to hold someone accountable for the things he said?
because those are two entirely different things with basically no relation to each other
Why are you being hyperbolic? Nobody takes away Sean's right to lie.
Are you just confusing criticism with limiting the free speech?
Free speech doesn't mean you're not accountable for what you say.
ah yes, dude was clearly talking about the the first draft when he lied in interviews in 2016 shortly before the game release. Makes a lot of sense.
chillybright
Banned
Exposing blatant lies with hard cold evidence = limiting free speech
No hyperbole detected.
themadcowtipper
Smells faintly of rancid stilton.
So how modable is the game? At least the pc crowd have that...
jim-jam bongs
Member
Free speech gives him the right to blatantly lie, and us the right to call him out for it. Nobody should limit free speech, everyone should criticise a habitual liar.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
I'm half convinced you and the others who are defending Sean, despite the overwhelming evidence against him, are trolling ...
One of the beauties of free speech is that people can use it to ask whatever questions they want, and to hold people accountable for what they freely choose to say.
Texture mods, sound mods are no problem. So expect high-res kind of packs if the engine doesn't freak out.
It's only this evening the modders have started to get a handle on the Mbin files in manageable ways. they already could edit things, but it involved Hex editing. Hard and tedious.
We don't know exactly what's hardcoded and what not. But it seems the most important parts will be moddable. If you want to learn more about the current state of NMS modding read this:
Although I like the game for what it is, (I mean, 100+ hours) I am a bit dissapointed of course at the missing/scrapped features. But the modding potential of this game is huge. This game might flourish over time on PC with mods even if the developers stopped working on the game right this moment.
http://www.nexusmods.com/nomanssky/news/12875/?
themadcowtipper
Smells faintly of rancid stilton.
Cool, thanks for the info.