YianGaruga
Banned
there is no one to consent. This argument doesn't make sense.
It's neither consensual or unconsensual.
I can very well imagine that Kasumi in the game is into it and we're just roleplaying. Would I be wrong?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Dead or Alive Xtreme 3 on PSVR
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
there is no one to consent. This argument doesn't make sense.
It's neither consensual or unconsensual.
I can very well imagine that Kasumi in the game is into it and we're just roleplaying. Would I be wrong?
This is where we disagree. Imo this is digital soft porn not masquerading as anything.
capitalCORN
Member
It portrays absence of consent. It literally shows a woman protesting. If you think that's what a woman play coy look like, I don't know what to tell you.
Which is something that has been debated for an eternity. Whether something just existing and being available harms the society. I would say many things shouldn't be available to everyone.
YianGaruga
Banned
That's not what I said. I said roleplaying.
It's still a videogame and what's being shown for the Vr isn't representative of the entire product.
Would your stance be affected if the game told you she is not roleplaying?
Sangetsu-II
Member
It's a game bro, none of those things apply.
They aren't real people, you paid for the service plain and simple.
If it where real life and in a lawful country you would pay the price of commiting the act you chosed to do. There is no problems with having sexual fantasies in games with fictional characters, or should we ban porn now?
Japan supply those things too. Comics, books and games about hot guys. There is a street in Japan dedicated to getting women aroused with sexualized digital men.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otome_Road
But you don't see the West get annoyed by this, I wonder why? Why is sexualizing digital men not a problem? Or video games where the goal is to have gay men have sex with each other, with the target audience being straight women and not gay men.
I know of women who play these games. They are normal functional members of society. They just like hot fictitious guys.
To assume that men are not sexualised is entirely false. They are just allowed because most real life men are not offended by it. It's not my problem, it doesn't affect me, I don't see the need to argue that women should be chastised for what they do in private.
So why is it that the reverse is often not true?
Let each person, no matter the gender or orientation, to enjoy what they like in the privacy of their homes with digital people who are not real.
YianGaruga
Banned
No, I was just trying to draw a parallel between this and an actual couple roleplaying.
If the game tells me that she is not roleplaying, it still doesn't matter, since I can ignore that because she is not real.
The cool thing about games is that they're always sandboxes in some way. You can make the rules.
capitalCORN
Member
Would you say the same of CoD and such?
I admit i personally don't really see the point of something like this, i'd go straight to porn if i wanted to, but i interpreted all the minigames and side stuff as pointless pap, built over the softcore elements, which are the core of the experience.
Maybe people who actually buy and play this game see it differently.
Just like a BDSM porn film, but it's roleplay.
capitalCORN
Member
BDSM involves consent? Safewords even!
YianGaruga
Banned
Well for one it's a game, so it has to have some kind of reward loop. The minigames give you money so you can buy more swimsuits. They're the carrot on the stick.
The reward is then dressing up girls and watching them in gravure scenes or CPU controlled in those activities and taking photos.
It's something that only works in games.
Sangetsu-II
Member
Yes, it's a game nothing you do in the game affects your normal daily life, it just your Fantasy of defending your country or living out war and killing people. Different tastes.
If you where to do it irl and kill someone that would be a different situation.
Safe words are used during the shooting, because it involves real people.
You watching the video at home, aren't participating in the same way, you're a voyeur, and you're buying into the fantasy (while knowing it's just roleplay/no-one is hurt for real, just like someone playing this game buys into the fantasy while knowing these characters aren't real).
I'm not comparing this game to couples having sex, i'm comparing this to BDSM porn productions (like the aforementioned KINK).
It's a problem of magnitude.
To negate that women are disproportionally sexualized, compared to men, is disingenuous.
How bout if she was depicted as 5 years old and crying?
Still doesn't matter, she's not real, it's just a game? Just let people have fun with their pediphilia simulator?
At what point does a game simulating / encouraging bad behavior start to matter?
That's the point, it NEVER matters. All evidence point to the fact that it doesn't lead anywhere. If you believe otherwise, then the majority of the games in the market is not for you.
Yes, people should be allowed to have fun in private as long as no one gets hurt. The fact that you might not LIKE it, is not grounds for you to stop it. You have the right to be offended, but you don't have the right to be protected from being offended. If you find it revolting that is fine, but don't think that your revulsion is enough reason to want to stop something that hurts no one.
Personally, it never matters. The beauty of fiction is that anything is (and should be allowed to be) possible, from the most beautiful things to the most horrible.
Randy Monk
Member
The same reasons we don't have games where you can murder 5 year old children.
I don't think we will see anyone release games where you can "have fun" with children. The people who do fall under the same law as pedophiles sharing child porn so don't worry your little head about it too much my friend.
Sangetsu-II
Member
There is a category for that in any porn website, father, daughter, mother, little sister. It's roleplaying different scenarios that usually don't happen irl but nobody complains about that pediphilia simulator, why complain about it here in the gaming médium even when the characters ages is represented in the main menu?
YianGaruga
Banned
Criminal Girls exists and is rated 16/17+ in most countries as a commercially available product. It's getting a sequel. Just saying.
I already said I think games like Rapelay are pretty terrible and I would not touch them. But we're talking about DOAX3 here where you're lightly poking an adult woman.
Let's not go where you're steering the conversation.
Plenty of people complain about porn.
It's not real, so it kind of never does.
It's fake, it doesn't have a negative effect on anyone else and doesn't harm anyone.
How would a game like that encourage bad behavior anymoremthan a game like GTA would?
I don't think that in game behavior influences real life behavior and I've never seen any legitimate looking proof indicating it does. I can, however, at least understand that argument in favor of it, at least in situations where it's consistent and not cherry picking stuff that one finds disgusting and hand waving other stuff they mind more acceptable.
And to clarify I find the concept of the hypothetical game he's describing to be completely disgusting. That doesn't mean that I'm going to throw logic out the window to try to claim it's harmful when that line if reasoning wouldn't work on other things.
LifeBrandRobot
Member
Sangetsu-II
Member
Maybe your significant other would complain but to reach these types of levels where articles are popping out in the west where the game won't even be sold?
I find porn to be drop easily in any main discussion.
What, where?
capitalCORN
Member
BDSM isn't a form of violence. It's a complicit act designed to satisfy certain needs. Whether filmed or not, it involves willing participants and guidelines. Watching it at home isn't participating; You're doing it for you, and you alone. Tell me, would you feel safe watching the depiction of sexual violence happening to a person in real life? Why do polygons change things? You're still buying into the idea. What's the point otherwise?
Man, just stop.
LifeBrandRobot
Member
You would think that I'd be killing people by the truck load, you know with all the murder simulators I've played.
capitalCORN
Member
Again, sorry if double post. If you're willing to accept it as titillation, you're buying into the idea.
YianGaruga
Banned
It's an interesting subject, since while I agree that violent games don't make people violent in general, we restrict these products from different age groups and some countries ban games that don't fit inside their morals.
At the same time I see studies about porn affecting young people and giving them bad outlooks to life and sexual encounters, while inducing sexual disfunctionality to adult consumers of porn. So obviously the entertainment we consume does affect our brains in some ways.
Anywhere porn is discussed of.
At the same time I see studies about porn affecting young people and giving them bad outlooks to life and sexual encounters, while inducing sexual disfunctionality to adult consumers of porn. So obviously the entertainment we consume does affect our brains in some ways.
Anywhere porn is discussed of.
LifeBrandRobot
Member
Sure why not. This sort of thing is present in every other medium. Why are video games supposed to be some sacred ground.
Everything you do influences you, i think it's absurd to deny that.
Whether that influence is as linear as some depict in this thread, is the point of contention, really.
Is this a serious fucking question? You want to ask me what's the difference between watching someone play GTA and watch ISIS execute someone, next?
This discussion started in a weird place already, but went way off the rails.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
I would agree except that there are a bunch of "sex games" that include underage or the appearance of a underage girl in games. People are pulling it out of nowhere.
capitalCORN
Member
Violence can only be antagonistic. Sexuality {the healthy one, anyways) is supposed to be harmonic.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
It's not a Dead or Alive thread unless there's a morality debate in it somewhere, is it.
YianGaruga
Banned
I doubt anyone will be against age restrictions. I think they should be more enforcable even, I actually do like that it's heavily regulated in Germany. (even though getting carded at 25+ for a 18+ game can be humiliating ;_
As an adult though? Fuck off, don't tell me what to do
"What if you were playing as Hitler in your sexy games and you sexually harass children?"
capitalCORN
Member
Once again, sorry if double post. GTA is played as sardonic humour, it's cartoon-like with adult wit. Even then, it doesn't play up gore. It's a matter of tone.
Sangetsu-II
Member
Haha, I like the way you expressed that, made me lol.
YianGaruga
Banned
It certainly has nothing to do with this game. Discussion of Criminal Girls is banned for a reason.
Except for the one handed army that tries to insult people watching porn in threads...no. Porn discussion threads here on NeoGAF (which are rare) are very civilized.
Where is anywhere? It surely is not reddit, neogaf, gamefaqs or anything else as far as I can see.
LifeBrandRobot
Member
I don't get it. Every gaming podcast that I listen to that talk about VR has said, jokingly or not, that porn will save VR. Yet when a game like this comes out it's all, FUCK THIS GAME AND FUCK YOU FOR LIKING IT.
Sangetsu-II
Member
They have mentioned to adding the VR compatibility on the F2P version so yes. Fingers crossed.
Edit: here is the article link
YianGaruga
Banned
"It's not the kind of porn I like so it's wrong"