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Dead or Alive Xtreme 3 on PSVR
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Adult-wit and cartoony haven't been characterizing GTA for a while.
The violence is as realistic as it gets (playing up the gore would actually make it more cartoony, not less--see: God of War) and the humor is often aimed at the wrong targets, to not be considered at least questionable.
Again, i play and enjoy GTA, but there's no need to be delusional about it.
When you stab someone on the ground in it, it's really not cartoony at all.
Anyway, i'll bail form this thread, since i don't even give a damn about DOAX3, probably not worth spending more time on it, and yeah i don't like the weird place the discussion went in.
I think i made my point more or less clear anyway.
N30RYU
Member
You have any doubt?I'm wondering if Sony wants to have this as their image for VR in Japan. It's a slippery slope straight into the sleazy otaku niche
a "niche" unrepresentative game selling VR units... why not? the more the better.
Randy Monk
Member
You sound like a reasonable person. You know when you play GTA, you are not really an alcoholic dirtbag father or coked up junkie killing people high on drugs. When you play missions where you rob banks or kill bikies or run over old people, you are still a normal decent human being playing a game for fun. Playing a game where you have a kill count in the hundreds or thousands does not equate to you being a murderous scum bag in real life, does it?
So why doesn't that courtesy extend to games like DOA3? Is it because you equate the titillation you feel to be more than just playing a game? Do you think the enjoyment others get when they play DOA3 mean that deep down they want to molest girls in real life or think its OK to treat women in real life like sex objects?
Do you see the contradiction in your view at all?
There are games that let you kill children. The first two Fallout games let you kill them and even get a reputation title for it.
They were going to use this icon for it but decided it was potentially offensive and replaced it.
I'm wondering if Sony wants to have this as their image for VR in Japan. It's a slippery slope straight into the sleazy otaku niche
Summer Lesson is the image for Sony VR in Japan.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
I don't know what you watch but I don't think those podcast considered molesting a woman to be "porn".
No woman is being molested.
It is a matter of record that one of the favourite recent Western game of the creator of Summer Lesson, Harada, was Payday 2. Paraphrasing him, he enjoys the fact that he gets to play a "Armed Bank Robbery Simulator", and made the point to specifically saying he would never be allowed to make this kind of game in Japan.Summer Lesson is the image for Sony VR in Japan.
Your musings about violence read so blind.
I don't share your experience of the world. All aspects (including those which some people see as harmful to society such as rape fantasies, pedo fantasies) of porn are discussed in porn threads. Of course to a varying degree depending on the subject of the thread.
Depends on the person. Some people actively want to immerse to the character. I know I did when I was a kid. I watched Rocky IV and after the movie I went outside and beat random objects until my hands were numb.
YianGaruga
Banned
It is porn though
This kind of stuff already exists for the rift and the vive (minus the disturbing audible protests), but those two headsets are so low proliferation that no one says anything.
It's definitely something that's eventually going to be handled by the masses politically, so certainly worth discussing it's moral ramifications.
It's definitely something that's eventually going to be handled by the masses politically, so certainly worth discussing it's moral ramifications.
MaulerX
Member
Yea it's her "Don't touch me!" reactions that make this bad. Might as well just let you fondle her with no reaction. And talking about reactions I find it funny that she only reacts after you get enough fondles in. Like really? Either you like it or you don't.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
You implied the fact that the made up woman in question is "polygons" (so essentially, fictional) didn't matter. UrbanRats then, rightfully, ridiculed that notion and asked if you see a difference between the violence in GTA, also polygonal and fictional, and videos of ISIS' executions, of real people. Your response now is that GTA presents its violence in a different tone, as if that was the key criterion differentiating the two examples and what makes GTA not or at least less objectionable. Would it be fair to conclude that, if ISIS directed their execution videos with more wit and sarcasm in them, they would be okay to you as entertainment? Or is there, in fact, a crucial difference between completely fictional violence and real one, regardless of tone? And could that difference maybe be the fact that one is made up?
Sylverstone14
Member
Waifu technology in action.
LifeBrandRobot
Member
Who is being molested?? And BTW I encourage you to look up all the tags next time you're on a porn site. There's more than "married couple have loving sex" type porn out there. And while you're there go check out some Japanese porn because i have not seen a single one where the woman doesn't make these sounds.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
I'm not going to debate that is what this video shows so I'm assuming that you take issue with me not using "fictional woman"?
If she start to enjoy it the game would almost certainly be banned from Consoles. That's what is happening here, that consensual foreplay is not tolerated because it would classify as on-screen sex.
capitalCORN
Member
GTA is played as a sendup and cynical play of American culture. Guess what, different games in the series feature different timelines. When the climate changes, so does the game. And GOW is as cynical as it gets.
Like I said before, it's the tone. Violence will always be antagonistic. Sex isn't supposed to be cynical.
They are not people. There is no crime. Am I a bank robber for playing Payday 2?
You have the right to be uncomfortable. You however don't have the right to prevent it.
My favourite analogy is the reality that most people are uncomfortable with the idea that their parents have sex with each other from time to time. But that being uncomfortable doesn't give you the right to prevent it.
YianGaruga
Banned
No Starbreeze are the robbers
Haha what? God of War plays its violence extremely straight
YianGaruga
Banned
.
No. It's dishonest.
capitalCORN
Member
Why are people disregarding tone? The same phrase could be delivered two ways and could be construed in entirely different manners. Facts are facts, ISIS executions aren't played for laughs, and there are defined limits to the ways things are interpreted. You can't play reductionist to the ends of oblivion, there's a matter of right and wrong. There's a difference between dialogue and predation. Moral relativity only goes so far.
capitalCORN
Member
No Starbreeze are the robbers
Haha what? God of War plays its violence extremely straight
My apologies again in case of double post. You're reading my statement wrong.
crazy monkey
Banned
porn and adult games will be fun i can see. amount of accessories one can build for these are crazy.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
It's really weird how people go out of their way to characterize violence in games like GTA or even God of War (really tho???) as "cartoony" or "cynical" and yet when they see stuff like this they get immediately serious and accuse it like some sort of a deprived thing and unwilling to do the same.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Would they be okay if they were?
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
I didn't imply that they were real or that their was a crime taking place here. I'm just describing what happened in this video like you did describing your actions in Payday 2.
capitalCORN
Member
I did elaborate. Quote my entire passage if you want real dialogue.
What moral relativity? We have one where real people get hurt or killed, vs the other where no real people were anywhere NEAR being hurt or killed. Isn't that the problem, the harm that was done to people?
I can say personality that morality only applies, IMO, when people are harmed. And fictitious people are not people, or we are in big trouble and many blockbuster action film directors would need to be in jail.
I am not a bank robber. I have no intention to rob banks. Will you insist that I am a bank robber because of something that isn't even real?
It must be a very long slopeChryZ said:I'm wondering if Sony wants to have this as their image for VR in Japan. It's a slippery slope straight into the sleazy otaku niche
Let's have a look back at PS2 launch:
https://youtu.be/gPTlsoAaNIk?t=202
Anyway on topic - while the conversation is dumb from most angles (ie. particularly anyone trying to drag morality into the discussion), VR as a medium does bring new questions to the table about whether simulated realities have lines that are questionable to cross.
The morality questions are looming somewhere on horizon as well - once simulations grow complex enough, but that's still some time away.
YianGaruga
Banned
In God of War you rip off someones head so you can use it as a tool.
There is no "tone" that makes this okay and the game doesn't portray it as anything but straight murder
There is no "tone" that makes this okay and the game doesn't portray it as anything but straight murder
MaulerX
Member
She doesn't have to appear to be enjoying it. Just have her stand there. I see what you mean though. And likewise just having her stand there with no reaction at all is no fun for the player. They want to satisfy the player by letting him/her get his fondles in but give them selves and out by having her reject you after a little while. Still a slippery slope.
LifeBrandRobot
Member
I'm wondering if Sony wants to have this as their image for VR in Japan. It's a slippery slope straight into the sleazy otaku niche
Well nothing else they've tried has been overly successful lol. One thing about the sleezy otaku niche is that it's loyal and willing to buy anything you put out.
Well I am all for X-rated games to appear on Consoles, but we both know that was never going to happen. No point talking about slippery slope when what we have here is clearly a solid brick wall. The Console market will never allow the studios to cross that line.
MaulerX
Member
Then why bother even having this? They already crossed the line imo. And yes it's a slippery slope weather you acknowledge it or not. The backlash will come, make no mistake.
What about horror movies that portray murder and torture with a straight tone? Tone is not the reason why violence is accepted in movies, it's accepted because it's not real (I can't believe that even needs to be spelled out)
capitalCORN
Member
Would you consider Three Stooges comedy to be harmful. If we're willing to drop tone from the subject, would the Jet Li movies The Legend and Fist of Legend really be that different? Is Buck from the opening of Kill Bill just trying to get laid? Morality lies at the core of a person. Every emotional response is tied to a person's inherent ideas about the governing mechanics of the world. Ever flinch watching someone get kicked in the balls? Ever make it past a whole cringe video compilation? Ever laugh at good joke? Your mind isn't binary, it doesn't work like a lightbulb.
YianGaruga
Banned
haha no it won't
This kind of content has been on consoles for years
Even the 3DS has games where you inappropriately touch girls and they say "no" and "don't"
Because there is a market for softcore porn?
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Get real. You didn't elaborate at all. You ignored my post and didn't answer my question: If ISIS framed their execution videos like GTA does its violence, would they be morally okay? That's the question I asked you in my initial post, where I was very verbose about how your insistence on tone being the factor differentiating fictional violence in GTA, from real violence in ISIS' execution videos, implies those videos are morally alright if they were presented in the same tone GTA frames its violence in. If you agree that those videos, and the actions behind them, would be wrong, even when presented in the same tone you consider fictional violence to be "okay" in, then you acknowledge there to be a difference. Instead, you've continued to completely ignore that fact and reiterated presentation to be the key distinction, dodging the actual issue of real people being killed, that this is wrong regardless of tone, and that therefore there is a massive distinction between fictional ("polygons") and real violence. If you really, sincerely, can't see this, then I'm sorry for having tried to engage you in discussion.
capitalCORN
Member
But do you laugh when you see it? Ever get a hard on watching someone die? Sometimes there is a wrong. The game displays a woman clearly distressed by forced fondling. For a game that people purport as being marketed as cheesecake, this is not healthy.
YianGaruga
Banned
I definitely laughed at the DOAX3 VR vid and I have laughed about plenty of horror movies.
The (vritual) jiggling boobs and the (virtual) silver toy poking the (virtual) butt are hilarious
Because that's the healthy thing to do when you realize it's not real. If you look at it and get disturbed, you might be too close and should take a step back.
what the fuck dude
You cannot be the judge of morality, we all have our own interpretations. If you insist on forcing your version of morality on the rest of the human race, you will lose the war.
Yes, morality lie at the core of the person. But that is exactly why it is different for everyone. If you think there is only one REAL morality, you are very naive.
The fact is we all have different views of morality, and the only way we can live as a society is by not caring about it. That you focus on making sure no one gets hurt. Trying to force your morality on others is why we have religious wars.
I'm wondering if Sony wants to have this as their image for VR in Japan. It's a slippery slope straight into the sleazy otaku niche
Those "features" basically are already in the Vita version of the game and I think there are a few games out on that platform that are much worse. That's still a viable handheld in Japan and still those things exist. I wonder if the average Japanese consumer sees this stuff as image damaging and that's all that counts.
capitalCORN
Member
I have already iterated that there is a difference. It's called representation. ISIS is representing a portrayal of suffering that is entirely face value. GTA plays it cards like South Park does, as nihilistic commentary. I don't purport to agree to the message or method of either, but it is not focused on the act, but the brevity of the actions reinterpreted through their brand of satire. You ask if ISIS murders were portrayed as comedy would alleviate this and I say no. I say no because there are defined lines in life. No amount of horsehead mask is going to make a beheading ok, because the underlying concept is still terror. I would ask is if would make a difference to you, as you are convinced my flaw is an inherent human one. And if polygons make all the difference, would you be immune to the the graphic portrayal of assault on a child, by an adult.
capitalCORN
Member
SORRY AGAIN IF DOUBLE POST. Would you say there's no ground that the bottom? Would you accept total moral relativity without caveat?