The whole mission withwas ridiculously powerful for me. One of the best moments in the game.going into the quarantined area of Mother Base and then having to kill your own men on the way out
Most disappointing game of 2015 along with Xenoblade X.
As a pretty big MGS fan up until the abomination that was PW, MGSV was an utter disappointment. The story was nonsensical (not in the good way), incomplete, and retroactively cheapened/worsened the overall series lore. Established characters were changed on a whim in terms of their voices, appearance, and motivations. The gameplay had potential, but even that was spoiled by the insanely boring grind and poorly designed open world.
It was an MGS game made for people who didn't like MGS games.
It was an MGS game made for people who didn't like MGS games.
It was also a MGS game for those who had never played the series before and didn't know what made the games special to begin with.
This nails it for me.
It was also a MGS game for those who had never played the series before and didn't know what made the games special to begin with.
It was? Why didn't anyone tell me?!
This nails it for me.
It was also a MGS game for those who had never played the series before and didn't know what made the games special to begin with.
You and me bro. Apparently we didnt get the memo of what long time MGS fans expect of an MGS game to make them appreciate it.
It was an MGS game made for people who didn't like MGS games.
Maybe I should give this another shot. At launch I really wanted something closer to mgs1-3
MGSV is Kojima's greatest achievement and a sign of his maturity by focusing on delivering what true Metal Gear fans expect from a game, while ignoring and abandoning the manchildren who cling on to the franchise drooling over cyborg ninjas and vampires while muttering "lore! mythos! canon!" as they drool into their body pillows.
It remains the second-most disappointing game I've ever played, after Skyrim. The only aspect saving it from claiming that most shameful title is how good the gameplay initially is. If the game ended after the first chapter, I'd probably have been okay with it, but having experienced the grind that the game becomes, you begin to see the threads holding the game together unravel, and the cut corners take centre-stage.
Outside of the focused mission-structure, the open worlds are desolate. Tiny bases with respawning enemies are the only distraction between winding roads of nothingness. The upgrades begin to get ridiculously expensive, and even when you can eventually afford them, the game can make you waste hours of in-game time before it lets you receive them. Enemy behaviour becomes absolutely predictable, and they pose no issues either through stealth (which has been stripped of its features from previous games) or combat. If the game was endlessly replayable with different approaches offering different results, there would be some merit to it, but the more you play, the more you see that all options get funneled into a linear path, and any choice the game offers you is a transparent illusion.
And the less said about the story, the better. At last, the MGS haters finally get a story worthy of their previously-philistinic criticism. The game strove for subtlety (a new frontier, perhaps), but succeeded only in being vague. Skullface is a poor villain who is attempted to be slotted into the series' lore, and only serves to cheapen past games by his non-presence. The tension and paranoia aboard Mother Base is made unconvincing due to the shallow narrative exposure it gets. By the same token, events can seem sudden and inexplicable, such as all the Huey stuff. Or we have the whole Eli situation, that doesn't get resolved at all. The best story content is in cassette form only, especially the hour-plus worth you get once you complete the game. However, enjoying those cassettes is bittersweet, since it's juxtaposed by the quality of the entire game that came before it.
I'm glad that those who enjoyed the game were able to do so. In my own circumstances, however, MGSV damaged the rest of the series in retrospect. I have no desire to play the previous games again, as the taint that MGSV has spread has yet to thin and dissolve for me.
How wonderfully insulting and condescending of you.
How wonderfully insulting and condescending of you.
It was also a MGS game for those who had never played the series before and didn't know what made the games special to begin with.
That doesn't mean you can't complain when you dislike a game -- MGS2 is fucking trash, you guys, really it is -- but it does make complaining about some sort of franchise purity a little silly.
I have absolutely no problem with the open world being "barren" between outposts. This isn't meant to be GTA full of nonstop distractions and meaningless filler. The open world is here to serve the bases and outposts, removing boundaries so you're free to take a virtually limitless number of approaches. Snipe from afar, drive in/out, lure guards into the wilderness, go Rambo, or ghost it all -- the choice is yours.
It's also used for a number of objectives where you follow, intercept or ambush targets moving between locations, like a tank convoy or runaway prisoner. Those stretches in between bases are smartly designed to facilitate all kinds of stalking, trap setting, eavesdropping, daring rescues and more. The open world knows what it's trying to accomplish, and it doesn't dilute its focus.
I have absolutely no problem with the open world being "barren" between outposts. This isn't meant to be GTA full of nonstop distractions and meaningless filler. The open world is here to serve the bases and outposts, removing boundaries so you're free to take a virtually limitless number of approaches. Snipe from afar, drive in/out, lure guards into the wilderness, go Rambo, or ghost it all -- the choice is yours.
It's also used for a number of objectives where you follow, intercept or ambush targets moving between locations, like a tank convoy or runaway prisoner. Those stretches in between bases are smartly designed to facilitate all kinds of stalking, trap setting, eavesdropping, daring rescues and more. The open world knows what it's trying to accomplish, and it doesn't dilute its focus.
I don't think the open world being "barren" is a major problem in MGSV. What I do think could have served the game better is how it handled Side Ops. There are a shitton of them, and they got stale really fast. Yes, they're optional, no one is forced to do them, but when you present optional content to players on a list, it is expected that you are challenging them to try them out. When playing more and more of these missions make the game world less and less interesting, that's a flaw. I know people who got totally burnt out of MGSV because they felt compelled to keep playing Side Ops as they were available. Really unfortunate design there.
The Main Ops though... goddamn. Fucking masterpieces.
I have absolutely no problem with the open world being "barren" between outposts. This isn't meant to be GTA full of nonstop distractions and meaningless filler. The open world is here to serve the bases and outposts, removing boundaries so you're free to take a virtually limitless number of approaches. Snipe from afar, drive in/out, lure guards into the wilderness, go Rambo, or ghost it all -- the choice is yours.
It's also used for a number of objectives where you follow, intercept or ambush targets moving between locations, like a tank convoy or runaway prisoner. Those stretches in between bases are smartly designed to facilitate all kinds of stalking, trap setting, eavesdropping, daring rescues and more. The open world knows what it's trying to accomplish, and it doesn't dilute its focus.
There's definitely some merit to the approach, but I think the problem is how static the open world is. I don't need strip clubs and a bowling minigame with Kaz, but I just want something unexpected to happen as I'm wandering around Africa and Afghanistan. Maybe a tank convoy, or different PMC groups fighting each other, replacement AA guns so certain helicopter routes aren't reliable until I find them and shut them down, truly hidden snipers camping a base in ambush for Big Boss making another of his kidnapping runs, or a couple lost Skulls wandering around a place I assumed was safe. MGS5's sandbox is just so predictable and when the game is filled with such interesting tools and fantastic combat it's a dirty shame how much you need to actively work to create fresh scenarios. You have a kitchen loaded with different foods and spices and it just wants to keep serving you the same hamburgers with the occasional chicken sandwich.I have absolutely no problem with the open world being "barren" between outposts. This isn't meant to be GTA full of nonstop distractions and meaningless filler. The open world is here to serve the bases and outposts, removing boundaries so you're free to take a virtually limitless number of approaches. Snipe from afar, drive in/out, lure guards into the wilderness, go Rambo, or ghost it all -- the choice is yours.
It's also used for a number of objectives where you follow, intercept or ambush targets moving between locations, like a tank convoy or runaway prisoner. Those stretches in between bases are smartly designed to facilitate all kinds of stalking, trap setting, eavesdropping, daring rescues and more. The open world knows what it's trying to accomplish, and it doesn't dilute its focus.
Totally with you... then you said that
The side ops are technically never-ending since they reactivate after a while, so I don't think anyone should burn themselves out trying do them all (aside from the plot-related ones for the Paz subplot, Man on Fire, AI Pod, etc).I don't think the open world being "barren" is a major problem in MGSV. What I do think could have served the game better is how it handled Side Ops. There are a shitton of them, and they got stale really fast. Yes, they're optional, no one is forced to do them, but when you present optional content to players on a list, it is expected that you are challenging them to try them out. When playing more and more of these missions make the game world less and less interesting, that's a flaw. I know people who got totally burnt out of MGSV because they felt compelled to keep playing Side Ops as they were available. Really unfortunate design there.
The Main Ops though... goddamn. Fucking masterpieces.
There's definitely some merit to the approach, but I think the problem is how static the open world is. I don't need strip clubs and a bowling minigame with Kaz, but I just want something unexpected to happen as I'm wandering around Africa and Afghanistan. Maybe a tank convoy, or different PMC groups fighting each other, replacement AA guns so certain helicopter routes aren't reliable until I find them and shut them down, or a couple lost Skulls wandering around a place I assumed was safe. MGS5's sandbox is just so predictable and when the game is filled with such interesting tools and fantastic combat it's a dirty shame how much you need to actively work to create fresh scenarios. You have a kitchen loaded with different foods and spices and it just wants to keep serving you the same hamburgers with the occasional chicken sandwich.
I want the game's world to surprise me, and a few hours in it basically stops doing that. It doesn't even need to surprise me that often, it could be its current barren self 90% of the time and that would be fine. Might even make the surprises more entertaining!
That was my post. You're probably referring to this:I love almost everything about this game. Top 3 games of all time. It's just so mechanically smooth and excellent, and quirky and weird in the best ways possible.
Yeah, there are some issues with the structure of the plot. Sure. But other than that, it's approaching perfection for me.
I saw some post in one of the other recent MGSV threads that basically outlined a different way they could have framed the existing content that made it flow a lot better without really needing to add anything. I wish I could link it, but I don't remember where it was...
Structured like that, it would honestly have been a 100/100 for me.
Neiteio said:I noted earlier that Ch. 1 follows a three-act structure, and dividing it that way would've improved the pacing. You wouldn't need to change any of the content you'd just add title cards for each act:
- Prologue: The hospital, same as before
- Act 1: Missions 1-12: Set in Afghanistan. Ends with discovery of the Metal Gear (and boss fight with the Metal Gear).
- Act 2: Missions 13-20: Set in Africa. Ends with discovery of the parasite plot (and boss fight with Man on Fire).
- Act 3: Missions 21-31: Set in Africa and Afghanistan. Ends with defeat of Skull Face (and the final boss fight).
- Epilogue: Only new missions and important side ops are listed as main missions (about 10 total).
The challenge missions would be listed in a separate category to emphasize the fact they're optional and to avoid feeling like padding. Also, I think making the Wandering Mother Base Soldiers side ops (part of the you-know-who subplot) exclusive to the epilogue would be a good idea. Make it so players can't miss it.
These are simple changes that don't alter the content. They just shuffle around what's already there for something that feels a bit tighter.