Support NeoGAF

[Uhyve]

Lara's arm is ridden with artifacts on the PS4P here.

Yeah, I'd expect some sort of artifacting with moving objects in their upscaling, I guess that's what it'll look like. The real test is whether it's noticeable in motion, since those artifacts will only last for a frame if I'm understanding the upscaling method. Considering ghosting is still a thing on modern TVs, it might actually not be that noticeable.

I mean, in the cropped image of the rock (which is presumably static in the frame), PS4P is pretty much as sharp as 4K. If the artifacting isn't too noticeable, then I mean, that's good enough... for an affordable 4Kish gaming console.

Edit: I don't wanna sound judge-y, but since the advent of shaders, I've always found it kinda silly when people try to make IQ judgements using screenshots.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

Th PC version definitely looks the best between both of those screens.

 

[DangerMouse]

Judging by the comparisons it seems worse than 1400p. Though we'll see closer to the time, the comparisons aren't exactly flattering.

Generally speaking, if it's even using the checkboard rendering, which I don't believe they've said it is, just that it's running in 4K so far, I believe the source is supposed to be 1800p (?). Not to mention, none of these shots are capturing HDR and are being viewed on non-HDR computer monitors so the lighting and shading will look even better than on these screenshots if you have an 4K HDR TV, I wonder if that will also cancel out some of the "fuzziness".

Pretty fucking great for a $399 piece of hardware on one of the most demanding games currently.

Agreed. Quite good against a beefy PC.

 

[//DEVIL//]

for a 400$ console ? this looking fucking great compared to the pc.

 

[tuxfool]

Looks a ways off even PC at 1440p with artifacts,

Top PS4 Pro, PC 1440, PC 2160

Top PC 2160, PC 1440, PS4 Pro

Hmm. I wonder if those artifacts make the game look worse in motion.

Edit: I don't wanna sound judge-y, but since the advent of shaders, I've always found it kinda silly when people try to make IQ judgements using screenshots.

In cases with poor temporal stability games will look worse in motion.

 

[Parsnip]

Oh yeah TressFX on the arms, PS4Pro is the future.

It's PureHair™ now, stay on message™.
™
™

 

[Uhyve]

In cases with poor temporal stability games will look worse in motion.

While very true, this artifacting doesn't look very similar to the common pixel crawl style temporal aliasing, it kinda looks... I dunno, softer? I'm really just very curious to see what it looks like on a modern display in motion. More of a checkerboarded ghosting effect on moving objects than a traditional pixel crawl.

I mean it could be a weird random distracting furriness on any moving surface, or it might not actually be that noticeable. Or, some area in between, where some people hate it, some people don't and there is a never ending argument on NeoGAF until the PS5 comes out. The latter is my bet...

Looking forward to a ridiculously high bitrate capture so I can play to see for myself.

 

[Gitaroo]

Looks like it can be TAA and low AF that causes the blurriness on ps4. The ps4 pro video is super clean.

 

[family_guy]

I think it looks pretty good, but I think it's a bit of a disservice to do comparison shots when the PS4 Pro version isn't finished.

 

[DangerMouse]

If the argument is that the presence of non-native 4K games means a system can't be marketed as a device for 4KTV owners, then no device can be probably for another decade. Or more.

I think it's fairly obvious and fine to characterise these as 'early 4K' games machines, in the same way PS3/360 were arguably 'early HD' games machines. They're designed to be able to feed a 4K TV well, in a way that is impressively better than a standard PS4, and it sounds like it does that from impressions.

And in fairness to Sony, their press releases and the presentation itself were filled with qualifications about the underlying rendering techniques being used - way more transparency than, say, the early days claims about PS3 as a '1080p machine', for example.

Yeah, they did good not trying to make it sound like they were claiming they could somehow achieve native 4K on everything.

 

[Patrick Young]

I can't have the best of the best because the updated assets from Definitive Edition aren't on PC, so I'll never play it.

 

[icecold1983]

Richard Leadbetter says ps4pro output looked better than native 1440p fwiw

 

[Uhyve]

Richard Leadbetter says ps4pro output looked better than native 1440p fwiw

For a still frame, that makes sense. I'm hoping DF can get us a high bitrate video so we can take a look at how it looks in motion...

Seriously, I don't know if I'm worried because we don't have this yet, or reassured because nobody has seen the need for it apparently.

Edit: By a still frame, I mean a scene where there was very little movement.

 

[KoolAidPitcher]

According to Irfanview, even the TIF files Square Enix posted are still only 8-bit color. To my knowledge, we still have yet to see any 10-bit color (HDR) screenshots or videos of PS4 pro ; - ;. I hope Sony will have kiosks at Best Buy...

 

[DaCocoBrova]

While many people praise resolution, I personally think 1080p at ultra settings is more than sufficient. But everyone is different.

I feel the same way. 4K video is cool, but 4K gaming is waste of resources since frame rate is sacrificed. Games aren't still images.

 

[icecold1983]

For a still frame, that makes sense. I'm hoping DF can get us a high bitrate video so we can take a look at how it looks in motion...

Seriously, I don't know if I'm worried because we don't have this yet, or reassured because nobody has seen the need for it apparently.

He probably meant in motion since i doubt he was examining still frames at the event. He discusses it in the 20 min video with John(dark3x101) on their yourube channel

 

[WarpathDC]

Look near identical. The DoF seems stronger on the PC version. Brightness is slightly different in the shots.

 

[thuway]

The difference is really not that much between native 4k and PS4 Pro. The frame rate is my primary concern.

 

[belmonkey]

Richard Leadbetter says ps4pro output looked better than native 1440p fwiw

It'd be interesting to see what sub-4k resolution offers a similar level of crispness.

 

[johnnydrama]

I don't know, man. I'm a PC gamer, and I can't see much of a difference. For $400 PS4 is pushing some mighty fine visuals.

 

[Arulan]

If those Tomb Raider comparisons above are anything to go by, it looks worse than 1440p.

 

[Momentary]

The artifacts in those images would drive me insane.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

He probably meant in motion since i doubt he was examining still frames at the event. He discusses it in the 20 min video with John(dark3x101) on their yourube channel

But Rich has robot eyes able to define a single pixel from 3 metres. At least that's what's on his short bio under his name on Digital Foundry.

 

[MaLDo]

Looks a ways off even PC at 1440p with artifacts,

Top PS4 Pro, PC 1440, PC 2160

Top PC 2160, PC 1440, PS4 Pro

 

[chromatic9]

PS4P is pretty much as sharp as 4K .

It's blurrier than the 1440p PC screen, with artifacts and lacking texture detail

 

[Jack The Nipper]

It's blurrier than the 1440p PC screen, with artifacts and lacking texture detail

But where are all theses screens coming from, Benter to wait for a more one to one comparison?
W

 

[chromatic9]

But where are all theses screens coming from, Benter to wait for a more one to one comparison?
W

Square Enix press site for the PS4 Pro. PC screens are from a PC user with the game and a keyboard.

Still they could be not very good screens from SE but that doesn't take away the loss of textures and tessellation.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Square Enix press site for the PS4 Pro. PC screens are from a PC user with the game and a keyboard.

Still they could be not very good screens from SE but that doesn't take away the loss of textures and tessellation.

It's something more than ever you'll need to see with your own eyes, as HDR (or at least its implementation in PS4Pro titles) adds a further element that is hard to appreciate with screenshots.

 

[chromatic9]

It's something more than ever you'll need to see with your own eyes, as HDR (or at least its implementation in PS4Pro titles) adds a further element that is hard to appreciate with screenshots.

We're talking about textures resolution and tessellation, not HDR. I know what HDR is, why are you bringing that up?

 

[dark10x]

Some pretty harsh responses. Knowing how demanding the game is, it feels like the PS Pro version looks pretty darn nice. They're making the kind of cuts your would expect.

 

[Avtomat]

It's blurrier than the 1440p PC screen, with artifacts and lacking texture detail

If you have to blow the image up to this level - should anyone really care?

Though damn I expected a much bigger difference b/w 4k and 1440p, will have to see more examples but maybe I will hang on to my old monitor for a bit longer

 

[Equanimity]

Some pretty harsh responses. Knowing how demanding the game is, it feels like the PS Pro version looks pretty darn nice. They're making the kind of cuts your would expect.

Hi John. Can we expect Digital Foundry to inform their audience about the difference between traditional upscaling and checkerboard reconstruction? I have come across quite a few people that believe PS4 Pro will upscale it's games like the Xbox One S currently does on a 4K or 1080p TV.

 

[Sad Affleck]

Some pretty harsh responses. Knowing how demanding the game is, it feels like the PS Pro version looks pretty darn nice. They're making the kind of cuts your would expect.

John, why do your think that the PS4 Pro version looks fuzzier than the 1440p PC shot?

 

[family_guy]

Some pretty harsh responses. Knowing how demanding the game is, it feels like the PS Pro version looks pretty darn nice. They're making the kind of cuts your would expect.

People expect miracles from a $400 box.

 

[SolidChamp]

So if I'm playing this on a 1080 Samsung on PRO, what setting gets me the best results? The 30fps locked setting with improved effects would be the way to go?

 

[jett]

I guess this game isn't even running natively at 1440p. I wonder what resolution are these "Pro" games actually working with. Considering how decent something like Rainbow Six: Siege looks when it's native res is 960x540...

 

[Servbot24]

People expect miracles from a $400 box.

People just like complaining. We're literally counting grains of sand and arm hairs.

 

[dEvAnGeL]

it does look a little blurry but you're getting that on a $400 dollars console, outstanding PPD IMO

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

If you have to blow the image up to this level - should anyone really care?

Though damn I expected a much bigger difference b/w 4k and 1440p, will have to see more examples but maybe I will hang on to my old monitor for a bit longer

People just like complaining. We're literally counting grains of sand and arm hairs.

Seems like madness to me. No-one plays console games sitting less than 1 metre from the screen. Usually we're talking 1.5m minimum. Even at 1m you won't see the absurdly small differences being magnified here. It's literally imperceptoble when viewed at 1m if what we are seeing is the the true presentation. And to be honest, that's a big IF.

Also, even funnier, the PS4Pro shot is not from the finished game. It could look better (or worse if it's bullshots).

 

[SapientWolf]

it does look a little blurry but you're getting that on a $400 dollars console, outstanding PPD IMO

Well, if what you want is a sharp 4k image the PS4 Pro ain't gonna cut it.

 

[Sad Affleck]

People just like complaining. We're literally counting grains of sand and arm hairs.

I don't think so, I believe it's normal to question such things when the chequerboard rendering technique is supposed to look better than 1440p upscaled. It might be a game issue or an engine issue but it's normal to compare details in a screenshot comparison thread.

 

[f@luS]

Well, if what you want is a sharp 4k image the PS4 Pro ain't gonna cut it.

Maybe just watch the YouTube footage from ps pro on your 4K tv ? It's insanely sharp. Ffs try it before saying anything

 

[MaLDo]

Seems like madness to me. No-one plays console games sitting less than 1 metre from the screen. Usually we're talking 1.5m minimum. Even at 1m you won't see the absurdly small differences being magnified here. It's literally imperceptoble when viewed at 1m if what we are seeing is the the true presentation. And to be honest, that's a big IF..

What do you mean is regular PS4 version at 1080p is enough at 1.5m, right?

 

[dEvAnGeL]

Well, if what you want is a sharp 4k image the PS4 Pro ain't gonna cut it.

friend, try getting that image on a 400 dollar PC and than come back and post the screenshots

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

I don't think so, I believe it's normal to question such things when the chequerboard rendering technique is supposed to look better than 1440p upscaled. It might be a game issue or an engine issue but it's normal to compare details in a screenshot comparison thread.

Yeah well to be clear I think these things need to be compared. Writing off what the Pro appears to be achieving here over miniscule differences is a bit silly.

 

[ItsDorf]

Mhh is it just me or does the PS4 Pro picture looks a bit blurry?

its you the PC picture looks blurry (look at the back wall clearly looks better on PS4 PRO) more defined. The colors however look a little nicer on PC IMHO

 

[Alebrije]

Comparing PRO vs PC ??? While we should be comparing it VS PS4 and XboneS

A want that kind of comparations..

 

[SapientWolf]

Maybe just watch the YouTube footage from ps pro on your 4K tv ? It's insanely sharp. Ffs try it before saying anything

You just said a YouTube video was insanely sharp so I'm already skeptical.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

You just said a YouTube video was insanely sharp so I'm already skeptical.

if you want uncompressed ps4pro footage of ROTTR to test for yourself, here: http://press.na.square-enix.com/products/p286/rise-of-the-tomb-raider

or here: http://www.gamersyde.com/news_psm_tomb_raider_shines_in_4k-18345_en.html

 

[Nzyme32]

I guess this game isn't even running natively at 1440p. I wonder what resolution are these "Pro" games actually working with. Considering how decent something like Rainbow Six: Siege looks when it's native res is 960x540...

You can't really come to that conclusion. Even when the PS4 Pro is in "4K mode" it will not be running the game comparable to "PC Max Settings" that everyone seems to clamour at. The texture resolution being scaled up could be lower to begin with even at 1440p or lower base resolution. There are likely a lot of trade offs for different effects to get the performance right