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Microsoft: Our (1st party) games will render at native 4K at Scorpio launch
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
Probably at the cost of visual effects. The same way Forza 5 achieved 1080p on Xbox One.
Fuck these PR wars. Just make the game look the best it can look. Do not optimize for a PR metric.
Fuck these PR wars. Just make the game look the best it can look. Do not optimize for a PR metric.
LukasTaves
Member
There wll be games that you can run on scorpio but not on xbone? Definitely, but by the time it happens we will have at least one sucessor to scorpio itself, so it will be a time no one even expects xbone to be supported anymore.
The quote says only for games launching alongside scorpio, so, the ones who are in production right now and probably has the resolution locked from the start.
I'm sure eventually we will see something similar to Alan Wake from Ms studios, that makes a trade off in resolution for another resource for instance (Alan Wake went from 720p to 540p with AA4X IIRC)
PeterLegend
Member
6 teraflop gpu, zen processor is available, 12 gigs ram, 1 or 2 tb harddrive with a uhd drive.
$499 is very likely, no one is taking a loss on hardware these days.
Not to mention theres not many reasons to own a decent rig and xbox since they share the same games, microsoft will lose some hardware sales to that combined with less xbox live subscriptions.
$499 is very likely, no one is taking a loss on hardware these days.
Not to mention theres not many reasons to own a decent rig and xbox since they share the same games, microsoft will lose some hardware sales to that combined with less xbox live subscriptions.
MilkyJoe
Member
EventHorizon
Member
It's not the price you want to sell at. It the price the bill of materials lets you sell at. $399 is the sweet spot, and Sony spec'd the Pro to hit it. Microsoft on the other hand decided to spec the Scorpio much higher than the Pro, which will push its price much higher than $399.
Hugh Swank
Member
Man...I don't know how they'd pull off $399. I'd be happy if they did, because I'm going to buy two of them at launch. It's true that $499 is not a good number for the masses, so it would be a good idea for MS to stay away from it. I guess it all depends on how much $ they are willing to eat on each unit. Whatever the price is, I'm still buying two of them, one for me and one for my son.
TBiddy
Member
As far as I remember, the power gap ratios between the XB1/PS4 and PS4P/Scorpio are about the same. I'm also pretty sure, that the PS4 launched at a cheaper price than the XB1, although that was probably mostly due to Kinect. But still. The Scorpio is at least a year away. You can't predict prices, when you don't even know the specs.
Also, HoloLens isn't comparable with PSVR. They aren't the same technology and aren't aimed at the target group. HoloLens is aimed at enterprise users, primarily, whereas PSVR is aimed at gamers.
Is it just me or am I the only one who wants devs to just make the game the best it can be on the platform and not have variable settings?
I don't want a choice of 1080p 30fps eye candy mode, 1080p 60fps performance mode, 4K 30fps Ultra mode.
The Scorpio will offer more obviously but there is no need to offer a multitude of scalable options on one box. If the game is 60fps 1080p on Xbox One, Scorpio should do that with better graphics at minimum and if that can scale up to 4K or 1440p or whatever while maintaining that level of graphics, that's fine but any changes to assets, FPS, effects etc. shouldn't happen. Keep it simple. The Tomb Raider PS4 Pro is not something Microsoft should follow.
I don't want a choice of 1080p 30fps eye candy mode, 1080p 60fps performance mode, 4K 30fps Ultra mode.
The Scorpio will offer more obviously but there is no need to offer a multitude of scalable options on one box. If the game is 60fps 1080p on Xbox One, Scorpio should do that with better graphics at minimum and if that can scale up to 4K or 1440p or whatever while maintaining that level of graphics, that's fine but any changes to assets, FPS, effects etc. shouldn't happen. Keep it simple. The Tomb Raider PS4 Pro is not something Microsoft should follow.
LukasTaves
Member
Forza 5 and 6 weren't behind in any way to other 1080p60 racing games on either console tech wise, specially the ones that actually try to stay at 60fps.
Of course, it was a 60fps title you can't expect it to match the effects of games that render at half the framerate.
Knuckle Sandwich
Member
Unknown?
Member
Watch the shitstorm when it doesn't look any better than PS4 Pro games. Lol Yeah it'll be native but I don't expect it to look any better. Also MS's first party has been pretty weak these past three years with a lot of their exclusives not even being first party. I also fully expect most 3rd party games not being native.
This whole gen MS has been NOTHING but talk. They still haven't proven the cloud and now they're talking with no hardware in sight. I wish they'd just show off hard evidence instead of just being hot air.
ScatheZombie
Member
Sure, but you also get a much larger benefit from 4K on PC due to general display size and viewing distance as compared to the typical display size and viewing distance of a living room console.
Rikimaru82
Member
Indeed, I just went along with his 15%. That's why I also mentioned the HDR and pricing
Scorpio isn't being marketed as a product for the masses... That's the Xbox One S.
I truly believe that Scorpio will launch about $399 and target the hardcore Xbox fan and console power junkie.
It won't be until the subsequent hardware release that we'll see software that can't run on xb1, but WILL run on Scorpio or better... That's when the Scorpio will be sold a mass market prices.
Rikimaru82
Member
Yeah outputting 4k at how manny fps? The current system could also output 4k but at what cost?
Screamapillar
Member
This is just so unnecessary. What is the market...let alone the demand, for a 4k gamer that wants a 4k console? Like what is the point? The average person replaces their TV once every 8-10 years? Like this is not a mainstream business at all. Who is this being made for?
We haven't even perfected games in 1080p, and we've had HD as the dominant standard in consoles for ten years.
Why don't we try by actually running games with a good framerate in native 1080p before we totally put the cart before the horse and just skip over to 4k?
This doesn't make any sense. Who is asking for this?
We haven't even perfected games in 1080p, and we've had HD as the dominant standard in consoles for ten years.
Why don't we try by actually running games with a good framerate in native 1080p before we totally put the cart before the horse and just skip over to 4k?
This doesn't make any sense. Who is asking for this?
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Yeah I've been saying similar. 6TF and 320GB bandwidth were just numbers they were throwing out there as a minimum baseline probably to call Sony out too.
My guess is, Microsoft wants this box to be the base model for a decade. In which case, it needs to be ridiculously powerful.
And ironically that site will no longer be a big deal.
Lol no. That will be the maximum. Even now MS folks are keeping the number at 6. Not over 6. Really what do you all think this console is going to be to hit a reasonable cost. Its starting to become mythical to some of you
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
1080p is "perfected". It has been "perfected" since even before the ps4/xboxone consoles on PC.
If developers wanted to hit 60fps in 1080p, they could do that on current gen. Everyone knows this.
Who are they aiming for? Probably people who want that high end PC experience for a cheaper price plus the ease of use of the consoles.
Thos is a brave claim to make over a uear from release. Because if they don't achieve it they'll most definately hear about ot from the fans. I just hope their desire to have a native 4k image doesnt make their 4K games look graphically worse then their 1080p counterparts.
They won't be getting the high end PC experience though because of the sacrifice to perfermonace. And i don't know many PC gamers who would opt for 4k over 60+ FPS.
4k is in its infancy. Console games still struggle to hit 1080p, let alone 1080p 60fps. At least while maintaining current gen standards of visuals.
I'd argue more people would want games that look as good as uncharted 4 or the order running at 1080p at 60 fps. Than games that look like COD and run at 4K at 30fps
This whole 4K push from both MS and sony feels incredibly premature.
They won't be getting the high end PC experience though because of the sacrifice to perfermonace. And i don't know many PC gamers who would opt for 4k over 60+ FPS.
4k is in its infancy. Console games still struggle to hit 1080p, let alone 1080p 60fps. At least while maintaining current gen standards of visuals.
I'd argue more people would want games that look as good as uncharted 4 or the order running at 1080p at 60 fps. Than games that look like COD and run at 4K at 30fps
This whole 4K push from both MS and sony feels incredibly premature.
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
Just because at the time there weren't any decent looking 1080p/60fps racing games on console to compete in that category, but you could make the argument that games rendering at a lower resolution or with lower framerate looked much better because they didn't shoot for a PR metric instead they focused on overall image quality.
I am just afraid Microsoft will mandate all launch games have to render at 4k natively. This probably wasn't even a plan before the whole PS4 Pro debacle.
Imagine being a developer spending months finding the absolute best tradeoff of graphical effects and resolution to make your game look great, and suddenly an exec comes and forces you to priority resolution because it will be a marketing points against the PS4 Pro.
It is fucking bullshit.
edit: In fact, if these games drop AA altogether just to hit this metric, it would be fucking stupid.
For the record, I own a 28 inch 4k monitor, and past a certain resolution, perhaps 2k, I don't really care about jaggies; I prefer special effects, and obviously framerate above all else.
That assumes devs wouldn't ever use checkboard style rendering techniques on Scorpio.
They will.
Doug Heffernan
Member
Great to have some confirmation on this.
So you don't remember any Gen 7 graphics comparisons then?
Sectorseven
Member
What can all these flops add in terms of gameplay?
dragonelite
Member
This is only for launch titles right.
Now im wondering will the use checkerboard uprendering in more x1 games,
to make it be a bit more 1 on 1 with Scorpio rendering tech used.
Now im wondering will the use checkerboard uprendering in more x1 games,
to make it be a bit more 1 on 1 with Scorpio rendering tech used.
NeloAnjelo
Member
Kinda fed up with MS hyping up something up that no one has seen and in theory doesn't exist. The cost will make or break it.
Didn't say it won't sell.
Many things i don't understand the point of sell gangbusters.
I said I personally don't see the point of such a small increase to hit a lower pricepoint, when you already have a very good offering for a low pricepoint (the regular PS4 at 299,
So i would've preferred if with the PRO they went further with specs and an UHD player, and maybe hit 499.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Game will be gamier.
The Hamburglar
Banned
Where is this weird theories that fps is tied to cpu? I'm running a 7 year old cpu and in the last month I've upgraded to a 1440p monitor and tested some new gpus. My fps has gone through the roof and that's going to 1440p from 1080p. Still same cpu.
Neuromancer
Member
Have they discussed what Scorpio will do for 1080p TVs? I'm more interested in that to be honest. I imagine they will have a super sampling technique like the Pro which should be nice.
They've said games don't have to be 4K if that's what you mean. For most it's just going to be a more powerful console.
EventHorizon
Member
You can predict relative prices when you know the relative specs. The PS4 Pro is going for $399. Scorpio is spec'd to have better CPU, GPU, and memory along with a UHD drive. We know that it is targeted to game at a native 4K display. With all that, it is definitely going for a lot more than $399. For example we know that the Pro was priced was priced at $499 just for increasing the CPU over its current specs.
HoloLens absolutely is comparable to PSVR in the context that I used it. Microsoft tried to use it to undercut the PSVR since they did not have a VR offering. HoloLens is NOW aimed at enterprise users, but that is not how it was first promoted. Do you not remember the Minecraft demo? That was pure manufactured false hype just like Microsoft is doing now with Scorpio.
But as I pointed out. Typically all you would get would be a hard drive space increase. For example just look at the 2TB Xbox One S being sold at $399. The Pro reduces that by 1TB, but doubles the graphical output capability. Now suddenly it's too small an increase to justify $399. In what universe does that make any sense?
Edit:
Oh, $499 doesn't really work well as a console price. Just ask the launch Xbox One if you doubt that. Remember, what you'd prefer to do is not necessarily what the public in general would prefer to do. There were plenty of people on Gaf at the start of this generation who said they thought the $499 Xbox One was a great value, and they'd buy one with no problem. Turns out that was not a universally held opinion.
I am interested how Microsoft handle their games going forward. All first party games will be on PC, so in theory Microsoft should could offer graphical options to the player in the vein of Rise of the Tomb Raider.
Besides better VR experience? Zero.
Neuromancer
Member
Ok cool thanks.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Mid to high end then. I think 4k qualifies as high end. It's not the HIGHEST end. Never meant that. That'd be silly to assume.
NX almost here breh
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
The 6TF is the GPU alone. That may not change. We don't know the RAM, CPU or anything else involved at all. Given its over a year out, a fair bit coukd change.
Memorabilia
Member
Possibly. However, it's a year later so we have to consider economies of scale will at least marginally ameliorate the bill of materials problem.
Also, although no company seems willing to take a loss on hardware these days, MS is *far* more financially capable of doing so than Sony if need be.
MS has, at times, shown an amazing capacity to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. But I think by now even the dumbest MS exec knows that anything above the $400 sweet spot is a non-starter for any kind of mainstream success. If they do start at $500-$600 that's a definite sign they're abdicating this gen and expecting the Scorpio to achieve niche success at best as a bridge to "next gen". Even the PS4 Pro, supposedly geared towards "hardcore gamers", hits that sweet spot. Sony learned their lesson after trying the PS3 at $600. After the Xbone launch debacle trying out $500 with similar results I'd expect Phil's common sense will prevail when it comes to internal launch price debates.
Edit: I won't be surprised to see the Xbone S drop to $199/$249/$299 for the 3 HDD SKUs w/ the Scorpio launching at $399/$449 for the 1TB/2TB SKUs, respectively.
Spiral Insanity
Banned
Excited about Scorpio.
BleedOrange
Banned
Says you?
LostDonkey
Member
Native 4k huh. Guess that's a kick in the teeth for all the nay sayers.
Can't wait to see what it's capable of.
Can't wait to see what it's capable of.
6TF should do current console settings at 4k fine.
That's subjective. The best game of the generation hits the 23rd/27th this month and is X1 console exclusive. It fits my preference and is only my opinion though. You can't state preference as fact.