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[ShockingAlberto]

I must admit I've never been fully up to speed with the whole GamerGate shit, but why would a woman be an active participant? Isn't a huge part of their mantra to harass women in videogames and prevent any kind of equality?!

Some women are assholes, too.

 

[Maximo]

I must admit I've never been fully up to speed with the whole GamerGate shit, but why would a woman be an active participant? Isn't a huge part of their mantra to harass women in videogames and prevent any kind of equality?!

Shes a Trump supporter too she is clearly a idiot.

 

[forgeforsaken]

I still have some hope that Facebook will step him and remove him before Oculus Connect, because that will be a total clusterfuck of an event if this thing is a hanging thread.

Imagine Palmer Luckey giving a keynote at an event full of game devs and journalists a couple of weeks after getting outed for funding white supremacist shitposters.

I feel like at this point that's where this is all heading. Doesn't seem like FB is going to do anything. Would be crazy if he does the keynote and there are protesters.

 

[SmiteOfHand]

If the thought of racism conjures B&W footage of segregation, or even further back slavery, then you are operating on outdated data. Don't feel too bad, the public school system failed a lot of people. At the heart of it there is a demand to prove that it exists. That isn't something anyone here can do if you are operating on a model of identifying racism that is largely outdated.

If looking over what has been presented you can't identify what this is immediately nobody can point you to an easy answer that continues to be demanded. It is like demanding proof the world is round with barely a grasp of science. You've got work to do.

 

[cakely]

So, I've been researching this for awhile. I've read quite a bit of this thread, but not all, and several other outside articles on the subject.

For the record, I've despised Trump since the 80s, and didn't like him being a novelty candidate let alone somehow ascending to be -the- candidate.

This is not about Trump. Starting your response by telling us you despise Trump is a pretty clear indication that you don't understand that.

And I'm legitimately confused. I understand you're saying this isn't 'about Trump support'.

Again, it's pretty clear you don't understand that. This thread discusses Nimble America and its links to GamerGate and the alt-right.

And so I did the research about Nimble America, and I'm absolutely struggling to see how it's a 'white supremacist' hate group.

...

Please fill me in.

Have you heard somewhere that it's all about ethics in game journalism? I feel like we're heading in that direction.

 

[autoduelist]

No.

Read the thread. Nobody is going to spoon-feed information to you.

I read a ton of the thread, and I also read about 15 supporting articles at this point. I'm not asking to be 'spoonfed', and that's quite frankly insulting - I put in the time, and I'm sorry, but if if it's not clear to me after spending a couple hours reading this thread and then another 3 hours of additional supporting material and couldn't figure out what the group did beyond the single billboard in Pittsburgh, it's not clear enough. And in fact, it seems as if that's all they did [other than association, discussed below], which is enough for some but not enough for others.

First off, the "alt-right" movement is a rebranding of the white supremacist movement. It's a slicker, more media "friendly" version created to help recruit a younger audience to the cause.

One of the "partners" in Nimble America was Milo, who is a notorious GamerGater and alt-righter.

Palmer was using the pseudonym "NimbleRichMan" to contact mods and outspoken alt-righters in r/the-trump and 4chan and other racist alt-right groups asking them for money to help them spread their hate messages. He was telling them that he would personally match any contributions made to the organisation.

The only thing they were able to produce was the fat-shaming anti-hilary billboard before this whole thing got exposed.

Who knows what else they were planning to fund and produce, but they were soliciting contributions from the worst racists and bigots on the web.

Ok. So basically the group was potentially aligned with the 'worst' of the Trump supporters who may or may not be white supremacists on various forums known to harbor people with serious issues [or, at the very least, mining them for support and/or ideas]? But the group had yet to actually do much.

My only issue with your description, then, is the assumption that the group was ever primarily about 'hate messages' and not simply anti-Clinton messages. You are correct, however, that the one billboard was not-so-subtly fat-shaming, though I didn't pick up on that at first.

I'm not really okay with how fast a group that never addressed race itself was labeled a white supremacist hate group. Those are strong words, and I'm not sure a single billboard qualifies regardless of membership/association. Individual members with other histories, however, could qualify.

This is not about Trump. Starting your response by telling us you despise Trump is a pretty clear indication that you don't understand that.



Again, it's pretty clear you don't understand that. This thread discusses Nimble America and its links to GamerGate and the alt-right.



Have you heard somewhere that it's all about ethics in game journalism? I feel like we're heading in that direction.

"This is not about Trump."

Yes, I know, that's the exact comment I was responding to. The issue was that I then researched what the group did and their sole output was anti-Clinton. I was expecting... race based output. You're asking me to understand that it's not about Trump, and I was asking for clarification and then telling me my clarification was that it's not about Trump. That's circular.

Please don't assume you know my politics because I ask questions. I wasn't researching Trump, i was researching Nimble America and what it did. I was wondering if I had missed some racially charged memes/etc, because I did not understand why it was being called white supremacist based on its sole output. 'Links' aren't enough for me, since it makes sense the worst of the worst would potentially support this group, even if the group itself wasn't planning on doing anything racially charged.

The implication that I'm somehow a closet Trump supporter or into the whole gamer gate nonsense is again, insulting. Fuck Trump, and fuck GG. I've despised that man since the 80's, and the fact that now has a platform and candidacy disgusts me beyond belief. His role with the Central Park Five alone cements his awfulness, let alone dozens of other issues. That doesn't mean I don't want to understand why a group that did nothing directly associated with race was being called a white supremacist hate group.

I believe the answer is that they didn't do anything directly, but 'guilt by association' is enough evidence for many here. That's fine. That's an answer. It doesn't qualify for me, but I understand why it qualifies for others.

 

[Datschge]

Did nobody ever wonder why Oculus was worth that much to Facebook? FlyinJ put some quotes in context before in this thread, and with that mindset the buyout value starts making perfect sense imo. Facebook having bought into this mindset from the start would also explain why they didn't manage to do any kind of damage control so far. It also makes Luckey being removed in some way really unlikely.

 

[spectator]

In this case, we have the individual saying directly that your proceeds to him directly fund this alt-right organization:

https://archive.is/4OuYq

I don't see what that has to do with my point... ?

You can bury your head in the sand to make yourself feel better, and rationalize that "well anything I give money to could be used for evil!" but that does nothing to change the reality that this guy is using the money you're eagerly giving him to fund a hate group.

The point is, we can't reasonably call it a "hate group" until we can reasonably demonstrate something hateful it has done. We have a political billboard; what else have they done?

There's a difference between "burying your head in the sand" and labeling an organization without using any evidence to support your allegation.

 

[george_us]

You kind of forget about it, then you go back and read it and Jason Rubin's response again and realize they never even apologize. They're totally cool with this shit. It's literally "sorry you're upset."

The industry silently condones this shit if GamerGate is anything to go by, so I'm not surprised.

 

[Dyson Industries]

I read a ton of the thread, and I also read about 15 supporting articles at this point.

You probably should have Googled "Nimble America white supremacist". This comes up at the top of the page.

Before becoming directly involved in the process, Luckey met the man who would serve as the liaison for the nascent political action group, and provide legitimacy to a Reddit audience for later donations without having to reveal Luckey’s identity: Breitbart tech editor and Trump booster Milo Yiannopoulos. The bleached-blonde political agitator is most notable for being permanently suspended from Twitter for harassment after a series of abusive messages to actress Leslie Jones.
Luckey first met the alt-right provocateur in Los Angeles about a year and a half ago, before Yiannopoulos began working on a charity to send white men to college. The Daily Beast later reported that the scholarship fund had resulted in zero financial distribution of the donations that had been made directly to Yiannopoulos’s bank account.
“I came into touch with them over Facebook,” Luckey said of the band of trolls behind the operation. “It went along the lines of ‘hey, I have a bunch of money. I would love to see more of this stuff.’ They wanted to build buzz and do fundraising.”

Along with Luckey, Nimble America was founded by two moderators of Reddit’s r/The_Donald, which helped popularize Trump-themed white supremacist and anti-Semitic memes along with 4Chan and 8Chan. A questionnaire to become a moderator at r/The_Donald posted in March had applicants answer the questions “Is there a difference between white nationalism and white supremacy?”

Try harder next time, I suppose?

 

[Dyson Industries]

Oh hey, is this you?

 

[ratcliffja]

Oh hey, is this you?

Huh.

 

[cakely]

Please don't assume you know my politics because I ask questions.

I never assumed anything about your politics. You said you despised Trump, and I took that at face value. It's been stated probably fifty times in this thread that the issue here is not that Luckey is a Trump supporter, and clearly, you haven't worked that out yet.

...

I believe the answer is that they didn't do anything directly, but 'guilt by association' is enough evidence for many here. That's fine. That's an answer. It doesn't qualify for me, but I understand why it qualifies for others.

That's a pretty passive-aggressive way of letting us know that you disagree with us.

 

[Krejlooc]

I don't see what that has to do with my point... ?

Of course you don't.

The point is, we can't reasonably call it a "hate group"

Yeah I can.

 

[Fisty]

What can we do to get the word out more about this? I appreciate how passionate everyone here is about this issue, but I feel like we are wasting our time reiterating these points in this echo chamber as new people pop in to the thread. We can't let this just be swept under the rug.

Anybody up for a shitposting initiative? Lol

 

[rochellepaws]

I must admit I've never been fully up to speed with the whole GamerGate shit, but why would a woman be an active participant? Isn't a huge part of their mantra to harass women in videogames and prevent any kind of equality?!

What GG stands for is subjective although these days it appears to just be a facade for the alt right movement. It's been quite some time since I've heard any revelations about games journalism come from them.
It's sad that video games was used as a vehicle for a horrible political cause like this.

 

[Quote]

What GG stands for is subjective although these days it appears to just be a facade for the alt right movement. It's been quite some time since I've heard any revelations about games journalism come from them.
It's sad that video games was used as a vehicle for a horrible political cause like this.

Literally never.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

What GG stands for is subjective although these days it appears to just be a facade for the alt right movement. It's been quite some time since I've heard any revelations about games journalism come from them.
It's sad that video games was used as a vehicle for a horrible political cause like this.

And what revelations did GG bring forth?

 

[kamineko]

What GG stands for is subjective although these days it appears to just be a facade for the alt right movement. It's been quite some time since I've heard any revelations about games journalism come from them.
It's sad that video games was used as a vehicle for a horrible political cause like this.

GG was never not a harassment mob. Started out as a jilted ex-boyfriend's personal garbage army, then expanded outward in membership, focus, and victims.

 

[Freshmaker]

I must admit I've never been fully up to speed with the whole GamerGate shit, but why would a woman be an active participant? Isn't a huge part of their mantra to harass women in videogames and prevent any kind of equality?!

Women that back them gain instant fame and credibility amongst the gated.

 

[Usobuko]

Women that back them gain instant fame and credibility amongst the gated.

Yep. ' The good ones '

 

[Tankard]

Edit: Wrong thread.

 

[FlyinJ]

Women that back them gain instant fame and credibility amongst the gated.

A lot of them actually agree with GG that women shouldn't talk about sexism and they want to see the status quo maintained as well.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I must admit I've never been fully up to speed with the whole GamerGate shit, but why would a woman be an active participant? Isn't a huge part of their mantra to harass women in videogames and prevent any kind of equality?!

For the same reason black and Hispanic Trump voters exist. Some people are dumb and will work against their own self-interest.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

For the same reason black and Hispanic Trump voters exist. Some people are dumb and will work against their own self-interest.

It's important to realize that they have motivations that run beyond "they're dumb".

Historically, as an out-group member, one of the best things you can do to curry favor with the in-group is to agree with them about their stereotypes about who you are. Why, if you do and manage to overachieve the stereotype, you can become "one of the good ones". And it's not hard to just accept the stereotypes that society presents in media, internalize these attitudes, and genuinely feel that you're right about this. It's an ugly thing, and to hang it just on "because they're stupid" is to minimize a struggle that a lot of people have had to face.

 

[Lil'DigiOp]

It's important to realize that they have motivations that run beyond "they're dumb".

Historically, as an out-group member, one of the best things you can do to curry favor with the in-group is to agree with them about their stereotypes about who you are. Why, if you do and manage to overachieve the stereotype, you can become "one of the good ones". And it's not hard to just accept the stereotypes that society presents in media, internalize these attitudes, and genuinely feel that you're right about this. It's an ugly thing, and to hang it just on "because they're stupid" is to minimize a struggle that a lot of people have had to face.

Nah. They're just stupid. If this group sees black people as dumb and stupid for example, and if you're black and you go along with that... you're just selling yourself short overall.

They still see you as black, aka dumb and stupid no matter how much you agree with their views.

They would leave your ass on a sinking ship in a heartbeat, might even help you drown.

 

[Verelios]

Nah. They're just stupid. If this group sees black people as dumb and stupid for example, and if you're black and you go along with that... you're just selling yourself short overall.

They still see you as black, aka dumb and stupid no matter how much you agree with their views.

They would leave your ass on a sinking ship in a heartbeat, might even help you drown.

I think what he's saying is, if there were two black people drowning on a boat, they'd probably pick the 'good one' to live and that's their motivation. Selfishness and shortsightedness.

 

[FlyinJ]

I think what he's saying is, if there were two black people drowning on a boat, they'd probably pick the 'good one' to live and that's their motivation. Selfishness and shortsightedness.

There's also the aspect of people hanging out with friends who have horrible views on race/gender.

For instance, there might be a woman hanging out with close gamer friends, and all the guys do is complain about how women are trying to ruin games, ruin men's lives, etc.

They think "Well *I* certainly am not trying to ruin games like these other women, I'm on these guys' side! We need to stop these women out there ruining games and men's lives!"

 

[Loudninja]

So here we are on Tuesday not one word from Facebook.

 

[Armaros]

So here we are on Tuesday not one word from Facebook.

Officially in circle the wagons and hope this dies out mode.

 

[FlyinJ]

It's very odd that there has only been a single article posted pointing out the fact that Palmer blatantly lied in his statement.

There are definitely a lot of questions that need to answered...

 

[LilZippa]

I must admit I've never been fully up to speed with the whole GamerGate shit, but why would a woman be an active participant? Isn't a huge part of their mantra to harass women in videogames and prevent any kind of equality?!

I recall a friend of my wife, a lady, who said that a woman can't be President because they are just too emotional. They are not really friends anymore.

 

[Mahonay]

I recall a friend of my wife, a lady, who said that a woman can't be President because they are just too emotional. They are not really friends anymore.

Didn't you hear Donald? He has the perfect temperament for a president.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

Officially in circle the wagons and hope this dies out mode.

To be fair, it kinda works. Even this thread isn't moving a lot anymore.

 

[Acerac]

To be fair, it kinda works. Even this thread isn't moving a lot anymore.

It's how news works in video games.

 

[Killthee]

To be fair, it kinda works. Even this thread isn't moving a lot anymore.

I'm glad Oculus Connect and Oculus Touch are both right around the corner. Coverage for both those events will include Palmer Luckeys actions and the Oculus/FB response.

 

[kamineko]

Yeah, at this point something else would have to happen before the story gets picked up again

Dude's just another in a long line of rich dudes who aren't accountable to anyone

 

[Specialmias]

Officially in circle the wagons and hope this dies out mode.

I called it.
They won't say anything until maybe a new press event or something. If they even do, likely he wont show his face anymore.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

Giant Bomb taking a stronger stance on this than I thought they would, in the current Bombcast.

 

[JodokusK]

It's how news works in video games.

For what it's worth: we had two articles and we discussed it during our podcast. I haven't seen other Dutch publications give it any major attention.

Personally, I'm not letting you this one go.

 

[Kaako]

Giant Bomb taking a stronger stance on this than I thought they would, in the current Bombcast.

What they say?
And the radio silence so far this week has been sad.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

What they say?
And the radio silence so far this week has been sad.

They didn't just mention the Trump/Clinton context but also that his donation/membership leads to a pretty much white supremacist organisation that contains "some terrible people". Though they didn't nail Luckey down completely and left it rather ambiguous after that, going with the "it's his personal politics that he has his right to have" bits, they clearly indicated their disgust of the whole thing. At least it felt like that to me.

 

[cakely]

So here we are on Tuesday not one word from Facebook.

This is super-disappointing.

I can't even say I expected this, I would have thought we would have gotten something, but no.

The actual message is: "Carry on, rich, unaccountable douchebag".

 

[LemonGremlin]

Palmer Luckey is forever tainted with this now. Oculus Connect is just over a week away. If he comes out on stage during the keynote as usual I can see him getting boo'ed. It will never go away really.

 

[x3sphere]

CNET: Palmer Luckey lied -- and that matters more than his politics

Good article, I agree with pretty much all of it.

 

[Quote]

CNET: Palmer Luckey lied -- and that matters more than his politics

Good article, I agree with pretty much all of it.

Same except this part:

It doesn't add up, and so I have to wonder if, however unlikely, Luckey and Yiannopoulos were both protecting someone else. Maybe someone with even more to lose

I don't see any indication of this being true.

 

[Kaako]

They didn't just mention the Trump/Clinton context but also that his donation/membership leads to a pretty much white supremacist organisation that contains "some terrible people". Though they didn't nail Luckey down completely and left it rather ambiguous after that, going with the "it's his personal politics that he has his right to have" bits, they clearly indicated their disgust of the whole thing. At least it felt like that to me.

Thanks for the summary.
Just read the CNN article as well. We definitely need more traction on this, don't sweep this one under the rug.

 

[SmiteOfHand]

CNET: Palmer Luckey lied -- and that matters more than his politics

Good article, I agree with pretty much all of it.

Fucking thank you, cnet. It isn't even like there was a delay. He gave his statement and within minutes TDB rebutted and within hours had proof.

-He supports Trump
"His politics are a personal thing."

-ok, fine, but his funding has direct ties to the alt-right
"What can we do?"

-and then was immediately caught lying about it
*shrugs*



This deserves being pointed out. cnet validated the email's origin themselves. If there was a shred of doubt left.

(I believe Resnick, because he sent me copies of the original emails between him and Luckey that clearly show Luckey's personal email address and phone number. Resnick also tweeted an image of those emails -- shown below -- with Luckey's email redacted.)

 

[Killthee]

CNET: Palmer Luckey lied -- and that matters more than his politics

Good article, I agree with pretty much all of it.

And it doesn't seem like Luckey was in any danger of getting found out. Resnick, the Daily Beast reporter, told me he didn't know why Luckey spoke to him in the first place

Resnick simply asked right-wing journalist Milo Yiannopoulos to introduce him to NimbleAmerica -- since Yiannopoulos was the one originally vouched for "NimbleRichMan" on Reddit -- and then, Luckey voluntarily spoke to Resnick by email and by phone.

Wow, I just assumed Resnick had figured out who NRM was or was to close to it but turns out Luckey just revealed himself.

 

[call_kotaku]

Same except this part:



I don't see any indication of this being true.

I think it's much more likely that Palmer Luckey got exploited by his alt-right "friends", because outing him as an alt-right supporter (knowing that Facebook apparently can't remove him) is a bigger deal than whatever memes they were trying to fund.