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Star Citizen's single player campaign will miss 2016 launch date

~Cross~

Member
Technically of course, KS backers are not customers so I think many are quite concerned about the current state of things.

Depends, plenty of jurisdictions AGs will litigate against a kickstarter/crowdsource venture if they fail to produce a product as described or in the time advertised. A TOS is not enough to prevent this sort of litigation.

If you live in any part of the EU you will instantly get refund if you challenge their CS. And if you are in the states you can put a BBB complaint or a complaint to your AG and they will usually fold post haste. They do not want to get anywhere near a courtroom.
 
I knew S42 wouldn't launch this year, it was obvious by all metrics EXCEPT what CIG was telling us. Hell, I think their page still says 2016.

I'm hopeful eventually but I do regret the purchase just a little. Mainly because I bought cheap early this year to get both modules before they split them and also thinking S42 was close (early 2017) but realistically,I don't see it launching until 2018 and buying into something that early is risky.

I've had some fun in the parts I've played though, so not really complaining just more dissapointed at the lack of a "game" being shown.

I also don't know how they can continue to fund such a giant team. 2 million is nothing for their size and this "con" had no wow factor for people not already bought in.

I always thought that S42 would be to keep funding going for SC but now we are looking at a long time out for S42.

I'm just curious how they expect to keep the hype up which is how they keep the money flowing.

But, I'm not in finance. I just know that with a team of 12 in my office (software unrelated to gaming), it's expensive. You're not just looking at base salary but health care, faciclities, other benefits ...

I had to temper my purchases, not just for ships and stuff but HOTAS and pedal upgrades because I thought "shit, I've got years before this launches".
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Irrelevant. Honestly irrelevant. I don't care and neither do many of the people who backed and are looking at a 3+ years delay or a potential cancelation that is not entirely off the table. I have the right to remain ignorant about their internal processes and expect a game on time or withing a reasonable time frame after the scheduled delivery date. If any company fails to deliver their product on time, sure, they better explain to their customer why things went wrong but you can get away with that only so many times.

Technically of course, KS backers are not customers so I think many are quite concerned about the current state of things.
You have the right to remain ignorant about the thing you're complaining about but that's not something to be proud of, at all. Especially when you don't know anything about what a reasonable time frame is for a game of this scale.
 

Velorath

Member
They actually said quite a few times to the press that there
I really do not understand why people are so afraid of ambition in this industry. We have so many safe games already, we need some that push envelope even when it come with some risk or delays.
If there is one game currently in development that needs support and time is this one, because its the one that is the most ambitious, but also (as shown by many demos) real.
Just take step back and think for a 5 minutes. Do you really want this game to be rushed? Think about ramification on the AAA and MMO industry if they will pull it off.

There's ambition and there's unrealistic optimism. Look, there's a narrative a lot of SC fans have formed that critics of the project don't understand game development. I disagree. I think early on many critics saw the scope of the game and everything that was being promised and many of us thought "it would take years and years for a game of this scope to get made even if it were coming from an established studio".

Then we get Roberts throwing out wildly optimistic dates for years now that any reasonable person knows they have no chance of hitting. Then when those dates pass, we get people saying "of course it's not ready yet, AAA development takes time". And the critics know that, and the defenders know that, but that doesn't stop Roberts from slapping a 2016 release date on SQ42 or telling you guys you'll have 3.0 by the end of the year despite not even having 2.6 yet with 2017 rapidly approaching. The critics aren't the ones setting unrealistic time frames, CIG and Roberts are.

Most people who call the game a scam aren't saying that there is no game, no progress is being made, and nothing is being worked on. I think most believe that Roberts and CIG vastly overstate progress, show tech demo's of things that aren't even close to working but promise them soon, and do this partly to keep funding strong. Given that AAA development does take a long time and MMO development even longer, the scope of the game that they did have to build up studios, that unexpected delays happen, and that they are more or less working on two games at once, I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect a 2018-2019 date for SQ42 and sometime in the early 2020's for SC (and even then I'd expect some features cut). If CIG were to actually put those dates out there though, it could have a negative impact on funding. The "scam" is that they paint an unrealistic picture of the progress they're making.
 

SnowTeeth

Banned
I can't believe it takes this long to make a game of unprecedented scale and ambition.

I'm so damn outraged and offended. I'm a gamer - I want it all and I want it now.
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
At this point with everything in the works its a little silly to call this a traditional 'scam' per say, its clearly a service and product they are delivering, however i do think at this point they have clearly accidentally discovered a golden ticket in milking all these whales for all their worth. Its why they are going super hard on the community aspect. Rather then spend 4 years to create a finalized product that they feel like they may have to make sacrifices to finish, they can now spend 12 years if they wanted constantly improving it while all along the way selling expensive ships and making a solid income, keeping everyone working while also making shit perfect. With the hope of brand new crazy features down the road for years they keep the whales going all in since now they have invested so much and its real hard for someone to back out mentally from a situation like that.

Problem with all of this is it becomes really hard, at least for me to enjoy the drip of updates as any sort of coherent work. It constantly feels like a series of test demos and 'try-me-out' features.

The SQ42 campaign is going to be absolutely key as existing as a stand-alone product that works from beginning to end and is great, feels like a 60 retail game/. At that point i think ill be perfectly happy with the early access approach they are taking with the persistent worlds.
 
You have the right to remain ignorant about the thing you're complaining about but that's not something to be proud of, at all. Especially when you don't know anything about what a reasonable time frame is for a game of this scale.

Yeah the devs themselves clearly know so much about the reasonable time feame that they missed their own deadline three times.
 

Noirulus

Member
Next year:
Star Citizen's single player campaign will miss 2017 launch date.

Year after next year: Star Citizen's single player campaign will miss 2018 launch date.

You have the right to remain ignorant about the thing you're complaining about but that's not something to be proud of, at all. Especially when you don't know anything about what a reasonable time frame is for a game of this scale.

Apparently, the developers don't either. So why did they promise a certain release date? Obviously so that people give them money. Nobody wants to back a project with an indefinite release date.

Quite frankly, it's a bit unsightly to see consumers like you being okay with this practice.
 

Chipopo

Banned
There's ambition and there's unrealistic optimism. Look, there's a narrative a lot of SC fans have formed that critics of the project don't understand game development. I disagree. I think early on many critics saw the scope of the game and everything that was being promised and many of us thought "it would take years and years for a game of this scope to get made even if it were coming from an established studio".

Then we get Roberts throwing out wildly optimistic dates for years now that any reasonable person knows they have no chance of hitting. Then when those dates pass, we get people saying "of course it's not ready yet, AAA development takes time". And the critics know that, and the defenders know that, but that doesn't stop Roberts from slapping a 2016 release date on SQ42 or telling you guys you'll have 3.0 by the end of the year despite not even having 2.6 yet with 2017 rapidly approaching. The critics aren't the ones setting unrealistic time frames, CIG and Roberts are.

Most people who call the game a scam aren't saying that there is no game, no progress is being made, and nothing is being worked on. I think most believe that Roberts and CIG vastly overstate progress, show tech demo's of things that aren't even close to working but promise them soon, and do this partly to keep funding strong. Given that AAA development does take a long time and MMO development even longer, the scope of the game that they did have to build up studios, that unexpected delays happen, and that they are more or less working on two games at once, I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect a 2018-2019 date for SQ42 and sometime in the early 2020's for SC (and even then I'd expect some features cut). If CIG were to actually put those dates out there though, it could have a negative impact on funding. The "scam" is that they paint an unrealistic picture of the progress they're making.

great post, thanks.
 

coughlanio

Member
Year after next year: Star Citizen's single player campaign will miss 2018 launch date.



Apparently, the developers don't either. So why did they promise a certain release date? Obviously so that people give them money. Nobody wants to back a project with an indefinite release date.

Quite frankly, it's a bit unsightly to see consumers like you being okay with this practice.

People were disappointed when No Man's Sky didn't deliver what they expected for $60. Imagine how people would feel if that investment was kicked up to $1000, or even $30-40k?
 

SnowTeeth

Banned
People were disappointed when No Man's Sky didn't deliver what they expected for $60. Imagine how people would feel if that investment was kicked up to $1000, or even $30-40k?

Exactly. So let's all complain about the delays and insist CIG release it early so we get the exact same situation as NMS. Makes perfect sense.
 

Outrun

Member
I can't believe it takes this long to make a game of unprecedented scale and ambition.

I'm so damn outraged and offended. I'm a gamer - I want it all and I want it now.

Yep,

There is no problem right?


If they run out of money, they will just quietly close shop and that will be that.

Questions need to be asked whether they have the capital or competence to see this project through.
 

Chipopo

Banned
Exactly. So let's all complain about the delays and insist CIG release it early so we get the exact same situation as NMS. Makes perfect sense.

If Chris and CIG don't want another NMS, they should probably stop putting out misleading information about their product.

I mean, this is still on CIG's website as of right now.

dl7FwA6.png
 

Falnabol

Member
Yep,

There is no problem right?


If they run out of money, they will just quietly close shop and that will be that.

Questions need to be asked whether they have the capital or competence to see this project through.

if they run out of money, they won't close up shop.

that's when worst case, a publisher will come into play.

don't be so melodramatic
 

Outrun

Member
If Chris and CIG don't want another NMS, they should probably stop putting out misleading information about their product.

I mean, this is still on CIG's website as of right now.

dl7FwA6.png

Lol, yep.

2016 is something that you are making up.
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
if they run out of money, they won't close up shop.

that's when worst case, a publisher will come into play.

don't be so melodramatic

Actually yeah, at that point they will be like, 'ok how much to finish this without additional features'. A publisher would actually end up making a sweet deal cause it would probably be like 10 million for a 150 million AAA game.
 

Outrun

Member
if they run out of money, they won't close up shop.

that's when worst case, a publisher will come into play.

don't be so melodramatic

What publisher?

CIG wanted to get away from publishers.

And if this project is a mess, what publisher is taking this wreck over?

There is nothing melodramatic about this. CIG could close their doors, and backers would have the distinction of keeping a group of people employed for 3 years...

It happens.
 

Noirulus

Member
People were disappointed when No Man's Sky didn't deliver what they expected for $60. Imagine how people would feel if that investment was kicked up to $1000, or even $30-40k?

So? It's still valid to be angry and critical of the developer if they keep delaying their game with no end in sight. Remember, people already paid for the game unlike No Man's Sky. And they can't even get a refund.
 
Kind of obvious to be honest. Still looking forward to seeing the finished campaign and the inevitable "scam" remarks all the way through both that and the rest of Star Citizen

It's obviously not a scam, just massive managerial incompetence and ridiculous feature creep. All I wanted was a single player space sim, not a fucking MMO.
 

SnowTeeth

Banned
Yep,

There is no problem right?


If they run out of money, they will just quietly close shop and that will be that.

Questions need to be asked whether they have the capital or competence to see this project through.

What development process doesn't have problems? Especially one of this scale from a newly built dev team in 3 different countries? Of course there's going to be problems.

What gives you the impression that they're about to run out of money?

Of course questions need to be asked. Be critical. Be sceptical (the only way to be imo), but we all know this thread isn't for that... There are people literally aching for this game to fail. It's sick.


If Chris and CIG don't want another NMS, they should probably stop putting out misleading information about their product.

I mean, this is still on CIG's website as of right now.

dl7FwA6.png


Totally agree. If SQ42 isn't going to land in 2016 that should be updated. No question.
 
I don't believe for a second that most of the people in charge ever expected it to make that date. They need to stop giving dates, at some point the constant negative reaction to missed releases is going to outweigh the benefits of giving people false hope with bullshit dates.
 
I basically don't care at this point. Star Citizen as a whole has drifted so far from the game I thought I was getting when I put down my twenty bucks way back in 2012. I don't think it's a scam, but this game seems impossibly ambitious and poorly prioritized. It really feels as if they're trying to build everything at once, and it means a single-player campaign that will take at least six years to come out because it had to be developed alongside a giant behemoth.

If I see a return on my twenty bucks, cool. Maybe it'll be the best game on earth. But for now, I'm not expecting anything.
 

Llyranor

Member
I'm still hoping the game ends up good, but I'm glad I got a refund (having refused to accept the latest ToS). I didn't trust the feature-creeped project mismanagement enough to gamble with my money anymore.
 

Soi-Fong

Member
After reading how amy hennig worked insane hours, I rather wait then crunch the team. My fun is not worth draining cig of their life.

If you think these guys aren't already crunching, stop dreaming. They've missed so many deadlines that if they were to go at a normal pace of development and Roberts actually stop adding shit to the thing, 2018 would still be a miracle for them.
 

Lime

Member
The Kotaku article basically uncovered to me how mismanaged the project has been. I could also imagine that using a different engine would've made things much easier.
 
If Chris and CIG don't want another NMS, they should probably stop putting out misleading information about their product.

I mean, this is still on CIG's website as of right now.

dl7FwA6.png

whoops.

But the apologists will pretend there was SIMPLY NO REASON to have believed or expected SQ42 in 2016.

I'd like any of them to explain this.

Don't worry; I'll wait.
 

Lime

Member
Mechwarrior Online also used CryEngine when it started development in 2011 and it's been quite the headache, especially with the netcode.
 

Soi-Fong

Member
whoops.

But the apologists will pretend there was SIMPLY NO REASON to have believed or expected SQ42 in 2016.

I'd like any of them to explain this.

Don't worry; I'll wait.

There were so many gaffers trying to defend this game when the Kotaku articles came out that SQ42 was on track to release and they're not even done greyboxing any of the SP levels whatsoever! Really says a lot about how mis-managed this game has become.
 

SnowTeeth

Banned
whoops.

But the apologists will pretend there was SIMPLY NO REASON to have believed or expected SQ42 in 2016.

I'd like any of them to explain this.

Don't worry; I'll wait.


Stop being daft.

2016 was what they were shooting for. They missed.

So what? Should they they just stop making goals just so they don't offend you with a missed date?
 

anothertech

Member
Actually yeah, at that point they will be like, 'ok how much to finish this without additional features'. A publisher would actually end up making a sweet deal cause it would probably be like 10 million for a 150 million AAA game.
What was the original release date supposed to be? I feel like we've had this thread for the last few years.
 

Lothars

Member
Stop being daft.

2016 was what they were shooting for. They missed.

So what? Should they they just stop making goals just so they don't offend you with a missed date?
Yup didn't you know it's a big scam and anyone who doesn't think so is a fanboy but the ones calling it a scam cant produce facts that it is.
 

Jimrpg

Member
Not putting a release month for 2017 is another red flag. You would think if it was early 2017 like Jan, Feb, March they would have said so.
 

Burny

Member
It's been what...2-3 years since full development started?

Orly?

Let the head honcho speak himself:

Chris Roberts 2012 said:
You have stated that you expect to have an Alpha up and going in about 12 months, with a beta roughly 10 months after that and then launch. For a game of this size and scope, do you think you can really be done in the next two years?

Really it is all about constant iteration from launch. The whole idea is to be constantly updating. It isn’t like the old days where you had to have everything and the kitchen sink in at launch because you weren’t going to come back to it for awhile. We’re already one year in - another two years puts us at 3 total which is ideal. Any more and things would begin to get stale.

That puts us at 5 years overall development now, multiple broken and self imposed ETAs, including the most recent promise of showing Squadron 42 this Citizencon. The doesn't even touch the revisionist that got later pulled on half of the stuff Roberts spouts in the paragraph above. No kitchen sink approach, huh? Why are was a civil transport ship concept sold for more than 400$ then last year, with the promise of a cocktail mixing mini game for AI passengers? The game or rather the broken ass tech demos they have have to this day no non-hostile NPCs. That's the literal kitchen sink approach being promised, of course not delivered.
 

joecanada

Member
Tall poppy syndrome. The sheer amount of money involved has people very nervous that if the project and studio fall through, it'll turn into the biggest story in video game history. Yes that risk is there, but I dare anyone to point out to me what else CIG have to do to convince them the money is for making games, not hookers and crack.

There's infinitely more ways to blow money on a business not even purposely than to defraud people. Like what is the overhead on all the buildings, how much for salaries , how much for tools? I'm pretty sure most people here don't know commercial space is minimum 20-50 dollars per sq ft. Add that up . If you found out cr was paying himself a million a year would you be alarmed? Or what if he paid himself nothing, would that also be alarming? How much is money where each delay causes bills alone to stack? The unfortunate part I see now of using crowd funded money is you almost can't win unless the product itself is perfect.
Reports on business management aren't very positive lately but the product can still be good .

Edit - this thread just reminded me of an upside of crowd funding though you get a ton of free advertising.
 
There's ambition and there's unrealistic optimism. Look, there's a narrative a lot of SC fans have formed that critics of the project don't understand game development. I disagree. I think early on many critics saw the scope of the game and everything that was being promised and many of us thought "it would take years and years for a game of this scope to get made even if it were coming from an established studio".

Then we get Roberts throwing out wildly optimistic dates for years now that any reasonable person knows they have no chance of hitting. Then when those dates pass, we get people saying "of course it's not ready yet, AAA development takes time". And the critics know that, and the defenders know that, but that doesn't stop Roberts from slapping a 2016 release date on SQ42 or telling you guys you'll have 3.0 by the end of the year despite not even having 2.6 yet with 2017 rapidly approaching. The critics aren't the ones setting unrealistic time frames, CIG and Roberts are.

Most people who call the game a scam aren't saying that there is no game, no progress is being made, and nothing is being worked on. I think most believe that Roberts and CIG vastly overstate progress, show tech demo's of things that aren't even close to working but promise them soon, and do this partly to keep funding strong. Given that AAA development does take a long time and MMO development even longer, the scope of the game that they did have to build up studios, that unexpected delays happen, and that they are more or less working on two games at once, I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect a 2018-2019 date for SQ42 and sometime in the early 2020's for SC (and even then I'd expect some features cut). If CIG were to actually put those dates out there though, it could have a negative impact on funding. The "scam" is that they paint an unrealistic picture of the progress they're making.

Indeed.
 

Burny

Member
Quick! Release it now so Burny doesn't feel anymore burnt for dropping 1k on a game he wants NOW DAMMIT!!
Star Citizen was the trigger, pledges amount to some 400$ and something. The rest is hardware great for also playing games that aren't run into a wall by a big headed buffoon who manages to hold a convention for paying believers after promising a demo of the long awaited campaign, but then prances about on stage showing mostly forum tech and a broken scripted FPS tech demo on which Crisis 1 gameplay shits on, shows a trailer for selling another 750$ .jpg ship sale for the gullible, but all the while glosses over any mention of the promised campaign footage and certainly fails to offer an apology up front and most certainly fails to offer a new ETA.

Hey, maybe, if we all buy some 750$ Polaris .jpgs, we'll get to see, you know, anything from the 125$ Mio. backer money game that they've been toiling on for five years by his accounts. Or was it three years? Or was it because we don't understand game development? Or was it because making a cinematic campaign is unprecedented and they had to spend four of those five years and more like than not the better part of the money for refactoring the Cryengine? Or was it because they first had to revolutionize forum tech and introduce labels for customer support? I don't know because I don't keep up with all the revisionist bullshit implied either by CIG or the backers.

What do you think?
 
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