Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
Good read. This really isn't new news and doesn't mean much for the longterm
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WSJ: Switch fails to turn on investors, surprises unannounced
- Thread starter ggx2ac
- Start date
Good read. This really isn't new news and doesn't mean much for the longterm
Joelstinton14
Member
Well looking at twitter, Facebook, and youtube , and various website comment sections, the reactions have been mostly positive.
hm? Is this supposed to mean that shares always drop after big console reveals? Because it's very easy to find evidence that's not true.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
In this case it seems like you could argue this is more along the lines of "Buy on rumor, sell on lack of news."
Doesn't mean much longterm because we have to see what happens once that info actually gets out there. I think Toto's comments pose the most relevant issues though. What's the audience going to be and what's the price point for that audience?
It always happens. It had nothing to do with mobile games, so it went down.
But a problem I still see even in Toto's quote, is the idea that Switch is competing with PS4.
If Nintendo wanted to compete with PS4, they would've made a PS4, money hatted a few games and have it out this year (which they originally intended with the Switch). But instead are releasing in March 2017, a hybrid of handheld and console gaming which aim is to merge both of their development platforms so not only they spend less time and resources making games, but also get the support one platform got that the other lacked.
Yet, there's still this obsession around them competing with PS4. But under that line of thought, the PS4 would also compete with the hundred of million iOs devices and even the 75 million 3DS userbase. And that line is barely even brought around when it comes to the success of PS4.
Not that pricing shouldn't take in consideration the others, but the price of Switch will be the result of stuff like 3DS underperforming at first and a Wii U that never took off, more than to compete with the PS4.
But a problem I still see even in Toto's quote, is the idea that Switch is competing with PS4.
If Nintendo wanted to compete with PS4, they would've made a PS4, money hatted a few games and have it out this year (which they originally intended with the Switch). But instead are releasing in March 2017, a hybrid of handheld and console gaming which aim is to merge both of their development platforms so not only they spend less time and resources making games, but also get the support one platform got that the other lacked.
Yet, there's still this obsession around them competing with PS4. But under that line of thought, the PS4 would also compete with the hundred of million iOs devices and even the 75 million 3DS userbase. And that line is barely even brought around when it comes to the success of PS4.
Not that pricing shouldn't take in consideration the others, but the price of Switch will be the result of stuff like 3DS underperforming at first and a Wii U that never took off, more than to compete with the PS4.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
I think they really need to define just who the console is targeting. If it's going after the home crowd, how will it attract people away from the more powerful and established PS4 and xb1 and their upgraded versions.
If targeting mobile, how to really get the tablet and cellphone gamers to buy into it?
How will the games play, more mobile like or more like console games?
If targeting mobile, how to really get the tablet and cellphone gamers to buy into it?
How will the games play, more mobile like or more like console games?
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Yeah. Step outside of GAF and you'll see there are a hell of a lot of people who are confused as to what this thing actually is, or just don't care at all. Exact same problem the Wii U had. An army of gamers going ape shit on social media isn't indicative of the average consumer reaction.
I'm hyped for Switch, but this reveal was kind of sloppy if I'm honest.
theangrypirate
Member
Shares drop for Nintendo, Gaffers deny this is not a good sign.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Assume it's not competing with the PS4 (which I think is a mistaken way of viewing the intersectionality of the market, but whatever), who then is the audience?
Joelstinton14
Member
That is is not true at all.
The reveal trailer was perfectly on point. It showed exactly what the idea is behind the machine and illustrated it. I have not seen one single person confused as to what the message being the system is.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
FWIW I saw a more people that don't normally talk about games mention the Switch on social media than after the Wii U reveal...which was no one.
Young adults aged 18 to 30 according to that trailer uh oh...
If I were modifying the complaint, I'd say it is easy to understand the concept. I think the trouble is in understanding why one would get this product over, say, just keeping their smartphones and the more powerful consoles they already have at home. This system does not offer a superior handheld or console experience over alternatives. Jack of all trades, master of none. People are plausibly wondering whether this is setting any markets on fire and will really captivate people at the level Nintendo clearly desires.
The argument against this is that people get two in one which is unique, but I'm just not sure this is an answer to any problems people actually had.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
And I have. Unless you're telling me I'm a liar? Don't get me wrong, I get it. But you'd be surprised at how many people I'm hearing say, "There's too many pieces", "I don't get it" etc.
The video made perfect sense to me, but Nintendo are going to have to put in work to get the average consumer on board and explain why this device makes sense in their homes and lives. It'd be truly naive to think that 3 minute trailer has done the trick.
Edit: Amir0 put it nicely. This isn't a better console experience than an Xbox or a PS4, and it's certainly not going to better portable device than an iPhone (outside of games, but even that is subjective), so what is it going to do to convince people to drop their devices that do the same thing's but better? That's what Nintendo needs to explain, because they haven't yet.
I won't be buying it if its that high. Thats the price point I expect from a dedicated home console. Yes this is a hybrid and a hybrid I will use 90% as a home console, so if it can't meet parity with a PS4 then it needs to be priced less. 300 is the highest I'd be willing to spend as it stands right now.
If it comes in at 200 I won't really care if its slightly better then a Wii U as long as the system is snappy and it doesn't take 30 button presses to get anything accomplished on it. It would be in impulse buy territory.
Found it to be a ho-hum reveal with a focus on mobile gaming, a form of gaming I don't care for, more importantly, not going to do anything to dent android/iOS which is what I assumed they were going to target with its partnership with DeNa. Even as a home console it's underpowered again next to its peers. I'm getting WiiU vibes tbh.
Skittzo0413
Member
I agree completely. There has been a lot of very positive talk on a lot of typically non-gaming news sites. They most certainly nailed the reveal.
At least MUCH better than the Wii U reveal.
Fox Mulder
Member
It was a fine reveal, but there's no meat really.
Investors would want price and Nintendo not saying more the rest of the year is kind of lame.
Investors would want price and Nintendo not saying more the rest of the year is kind of lame.
moltonasty
Member
Obviously it's just a small sample, but I have a few friends who haven't owned Nintendo consoles in years (talking like since Gamecube era) and they all said if its $350 or less it's an insta-buy.
I doubt this will be more than that, and I think a lot of people will be ok with that pricepoint, since it's just an overall more appealing product than Wii U was. Wii U's problem wasn't price, it was just perceived of as a shit console lol
I doubt this will be more than that, and I think a lot of people will be ok with that pricepoint, since it's just an overall more appealing product than Wii U was. Wii U's problem wasn't price, it was just perceived of as a shit console lol
Everyone realizing it's a new console right away is a good start.
PapaEmeritus
Member
I said multiple places
249-299 for screen and joy cons and 349 - 399 for game, docking station, screen, joy con controllers
What gave you the impression of mobile gaming? I didn't get that impression although I assume it will have access to the Nintendo mobile games. I felt what it demonstrated to me was the evolution of PS4/Vita remote play with an emphasis on LOCAL multiplayer gaming anywhere for social activities.
I do feel this is an evolution of PS4/vita remote play with reverse Wii U concepts though. But I think the message and focus so far is much much much better then how they communicated the Wii U at the infancy of both machines. They just need to keep talking about the Switch and drip out more features over the coming weeks.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
$350 might be the upper-limits on some kind of bundle with pack-ins. There's no way you can do a flat $350-400. That's priced too uncompetitively and will lose out to either consoles or actual tablets.
arts&crafts
Member
I will out-age this system during its cycle!
Davey Cakes
Member
"Concerns over Switch console."
I feel like anyone concerned about it is jumping the gun. I really think a better time to judge is next year during the full hardware and software reveal and during launch, when all the details are clarified.
Otherwise it's a bit silly to judge the stocks, which are known to fluctuate. Remember Pokemon GO? The stocks exploded at first, but dropped as soon as Nintendo made a statement about the financial impact on them.
Doom and gloom with such little information is just silly to me.
I feel like anyone concerned about it is jumping the gun. I really think a better time to judge is next year during the full hardware and software reveal and during launch, when all the details are clarified.
Otherwise it's a bit silly to judge the stocks, which are known to fluctuate. Remember Pokemon GO? The stocks exploded at first, but dropped as soon as Nintendo made a statement about the financial impact on them.
Doom and gloom with such little information is just silly to me.
Exactly. This is all that needs to be said.
privitsan02
Member
Well first off, I'm not surprised but I don't think it looks terrible.
A lot of what they showed is reflective of the original Wii U announcement, only much better. Even then, it only truly appeals to Nintendo fans primarily. Anyone who isn't into Nintendo isn't going to be that intrigued and the "everyone" approach isn't present here, which made Nintendo very successful a decade ago.
This is essentially the best Nintendo can be for any Nintendo fan that doesn't want to deal with gimmicks or fight against the console to enjoy the content. While the 3DS peaked at 60 million units and the Wii U around 12 million units, this will likely be somewhere in between if all they do is target the Nintendo enthusiasts. Since this will be their main platform besides some efforts on Mobile, I can see why investors aren't pleased.
Even then, the stock market is fickle. They haven't announced anything and are trying to pull an Apple here. I'm sure Nintendo fans will be pleased with this platform and those who sort of grew out of them, might come back for nostalgia.
Best wishes.
A lot of what they showed is reflective of the original Wii U announcement, only much better. Even then, it only truly appeals to Nintendo fans primarily. Anyone who isn't into Nintendo isn't going to be that intrigued and the "everyone" approach isn't present here, which made Nintendo very successful a decade ago.
This is essentially the best Nintendo can be for any Nintendo fan that doesn't want to deal with gimmicks or fight against the console to enjoy the content. While the 3DS peaked at 60 million units and the Wii U around 12 million units, this will likely be somewhere in between if all they do is target the Nintendo enthusiasts. Since this will be their main platform besides some efforts on Mobile, I can see why investors aren't pleased.
Even then, the stock market is fickle. They haven't announced anything and are trying to pull an Apple here. I'm sure Nintendo fans will be pleased with this platform and those who sort of grew out of them, might come back for nostalgia.
Best wishes.
Poetic.Injustice
Member
The lack of a Wii like gimmick is probably the thing that's most lacking here.
I think if it's 399 than the system is dead on arrival even if it has a game. It has to be at 349 with a game. 299 with docking station.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
A March 2017 launch with no more concrete info in 2016 does indeed look like they're only bothering to hook their fan base.
I don't think the masses will be paying much attention.
As for price $299 would be a sweet spot. Going above $300 isn't going to move Nintendo consoles.
I don't think the masses will be paying much attention.
As for price $299 would be a sweet spot. Going above $300 isn't going to move Nintendo consoles.
vinnygambini
Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
We'll see. It aint no Wii, but if it can get good momemtum and haven decent software off the bat, then we will have a successful gen.
Sectorseven
Member
They might get it to $299, but I can see them nickel and diming the whole package: The joycon handle thingy, the pro controller, a proprietary portable charger, memory cards, maybe even online subscription.
I only watched it 10 times, myself. (Sorry, but it's true).
Joelstinton14
Member
I think it is too early really to say that to be honest, the device is not in peoples hands, or out in the wild, and you don't know what is going to capture the imagination of people. That is a risk that any device released to the market takes i guess.
But from what we have seen, it is clear that nintendo have looked at what failed with the wii u, and have clearly illustrated the concept of what the Switch is. And you know what? I may be to old to use it in the way the video described, but i can see 18-24 year old using it as the video describes - on beer nights, at uni, social gaterhings. I can imagine people playing fifa etc opposite each other. I think that is a pretty unique way of marketing of the console, and actually.. well not a new way to play games, but it definitely has a cool competitive local multiplayer edge. It may not sound a lot, but i think little things like that do leave an impression on your experiences.
I don't really have the time to write out more, i'm off out for a steak, but yeah i'm just surprised about some of the tone of the conservation. Seems like Nintendo can't do nothing right at times on gaf, when i think it was clear the the general opinion around the internet as been really positive. Sorry if the message is brash and a bit all over the place, but rushing a bit before i go out the door. I mean it fine to have concerns about the product, and speculation etc, but .. yeah perhaps i spent too long on the internet today, but it just felt that the tone was snarkier than that. I don't know!
Fun part is WiiU was actually trending on twitter lower than Switch during the switch reveal.
As for the general appeal of the product? It's pretty clear, it's a console to use on tv and on the go with a big emphasis on local and online multiplayer.
Is it better than the alternatives? no idea and that's not really the point.
Centering their product toward the competition leads to unexciting products, most Nintendo's less exciting products are clearly targeted at competition and they were really lame.
If the games comes, the market will follow.
It's way too early to bother about if it's a better proposition compared to competition when we know next to nothing from it.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
If they're smart, this is the one thing they shouldn't do. Gives them a great marketing line.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
$299 is too much? People have got some crazy expectations.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Or yours are just too low(which is fine too) looking at the market and competitor's products they absolutely have to price this/or bundle it accordingly
Off-Kilter
Banned
No, it's based off the information given. Investors were looking for two things mainly: pricing, which Nintendo was mum about, and fresh concepts from both a hardware and software end, which the trailer didn't dedicate enough time to (probably because it was short as hell). If Nintendo locked those two things down, the sentiment would be a lot more positive.
From Morgan Stanley:
From BGC Partners:
From Mizuho:
From SMBC Nikko:
There are different audiences even on the same field. My point is more about the analysts and people making both compete against each other. If PS4 and Switch are competing for the same audiences, then so they are with every other gaming capable device.
So they all should take pricing in consideration if that was the case. Microsoft tried a few years ago. With a pricing structure on Xbox 360 that allowed people to get one under a contract like phones. And it didn't worked. Is why Xbox One and PS4 price each other competitively, not against a 3DS.
With VR you can see people and analysts recognizing that PSVR is aimed as a different public to Hive or Oculus. So things like price, specs, etc. are not used against each other because their different aims are recognized.
With nVidia Shield, analysts didn't threw nVidia under the bus for not taking devices like the 3DS in consideration.
There's nothing at this moment that show Switch competing against the PS4 audience. No games, no concept, nothing. So the comparisons should be around other Nintendo hardware mode than possible competitors.
That's what I'm trying to say with my broken english and fat fingers that make writing on my phone a pain in the ass. XD
Thabass
Member
Welcome to NeoGAF, I see you're new here.
If you had stock in Nintendo why the hell would invest in them during the WiiU period?
They showed there that they had no idea why Wii succeed to begin with (same with DS->3DS really).
Why aren't you investing in something with better returns?
Nintendo fans diehard enough to suffer through a third paradigm continuity break.
Davey Cakes
Member
I disagree with your first point and slightly agree with your second.
I feel like the mainstream doesn't require that much time to get ready for a new product. 2-3 months should be enough, after Nintendo does a full blowout. You have to get them while mindshare and buzz are high and impulse purchases are likely. You have to capitalize on what's trending, immediately. Heck, a couple of months may be TOO MUCH time. That may sound crazy but again, I'm not talking about the hardcore fanbase, but the mainstream. Nintendo knows their dedicated fanbase will participate, so they'll cater to the more fickle audience first and foremost.
As for the price, I think even $299 is high. I've stated before that I support Nintendo going for one SKU. But, if there have to be two SKUs, then I can imagine the base being $249 and the premium being $299. Nintendo absolutely cannot go for the same pricing as the Wii U as that burned them in the past, even if the Switch isn't hamstrung by an overly-priced-but-necessary peripheral like the Wii U Gamepad.