if they do any of this shareholders can and will sue for failing to maximize return on investment
the whole system is broken and cannot be fixed from within
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How can the games industry resist and push back against Trump & his fascism?
- Thread starter Lime
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if they do any of this shareholders can and will sue for failing to maximize return on investment
the whole system is broken and cannot be fixed from within
Major publishers need to stop skirting around speaking out against Gamergaters. That group's actions and rhetoric have to be condemned at every opportunity, and they can't be passive or coy about it for fear of losing customers.
Radio silence on stuff like that is a huge part of what's emboldened the alt-right. Owners and major content providers of social platforms refusing to actively engage against and punish harmful behavior is as good as approval.
Radio silence on stuff like that is a huge part of what's emboldened the alt-right. Owners and major content providers of social platforms refusing to actively engage against and punish harmful behavior is as good as approval.
everyday math
Banned
This is good post. I would love to see this. Or games with MP have days where they fundraise. Bungie does this a lot with their website store merchandise.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Buy indie/low budget games and remove power from publishers. Financially supporting entities that are not beholden to money is really all one can do from the perspective of the average consumer.
I mean, using this as a criteria theoretically any event that affects a large enough sample of people suddenly becomes gaming related and therefore relevant to the gaming community, its various impacts now categorized as "gaming discussion" despite not particularly being any more relevant to gaming than any other field such as movies, music, etc
I mean, using this as a criteria theoretically any event that affects a large enough sample of people suddenly becomes gaming related and therefore relevant to the gaming community, its various impacts now categorized as "gaming discussion" despite not particularly being any more relevant to gaming than any other field such as movies, music, etc
yeah that shit should definitely just be in the movies subforum
It's unbelievable. This is why all the "we have to talk to them" discussion is in vain. There is no talking, they live in an alternate reality. I don't know how we got here but it's basically a nightmare.
Yes, because I am positive white racist Trump-lovers are going to burn down a black church and then hurt their man's chance to be elected by advertising to the world that his supporters would do such a horrific deed.
I suspect that that church was burned down by people of the same mind as those who firebombed the Republican offices in different states, and the people who paid for others to infiltrate Trump rallies and create disturbances. It's true; a high-up D staffer lost his job over it.
Silver Arrows
Banned
"We have to talk to them' crowd is basically saying: "Shut up minorities. Your words will only mean something when we want them to mean something." Which more often then not, means never.
What's next? The water turns the frogs gay? Didn't know Alex Jones had a GAF account.
More_Badass
Member
I mean it's been happening for years. Ie the wave of games about privacy and surveillance.
This is just the most recent, most overt and biggest incident.
Coffee Dog
Banned
or, in the absence of said subforum, some sort of catch-all "off topic" section :^)
Oh for fuck's sake...and you say others have eaten up propaganda.
Go enjoy your Joey Salad videos.
I'd love to see more video game companies take a hard stance against the alt-right/Gamergate crowd. Problem is, as demonstrated by the messages I see posted in games in Battlefield 1/Overwatch and so on, video games have a large player base of these types of idiots. A lot of companies are probably worried about alienating this awful sect of their community and losing out on sales :/
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
We stay the course with current trend in games and keep going forward. We have a lot of diverse games coming up and it would be idiotic to halt that progress. It's back to angrily challenging the status quo that our President and the Republicans will try to maintain.
oh that's cool.
What other ninja powers is there?
At least I def know not to post something to get me banned and then come to my senses and edit it out lol. I'm one of the ones who'd quickly be banned in this thread had I not already learned my lesson the hard way previously.
everyday math
Banned
How about you just ignore it, if you give no shits about these issues? It's really easy.
Bye.
So... all of the videos of what people were saying/shouting at Trump rallies were staged too? Seriously?
well you just doubled down now.
Coffee Dog
Banned
i legitimately thought you were trolling.
Weltall Zero
Member
When the opposing views are pretty much "fuck everyone that's not a rich white cis straight able male", opposing them is still being pro-diversity.
Holy shit on a paraglider. Well, if your post was meant to convince us of the horrifying levels of brainwashing going on in some places in the US, mission accomplished I guess.
Is the New York Times a good enough source for you?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/21/us/politics/video-dnc-trump-rallies.html?_r=0
I am quite outnumbered and after this bitter political cycle, have no appetite to fight. Carry on, guys.
This is the same point I was hinting at, put in a much more effective way:
"This is who to blame for Trump"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs
I think a lot of people should watch this and take every point to heart, get out of the bad loop and then go make something constructive out of it.
"This is who to blame for Trump"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs
I think a lot of people should watch this and take every point to heart, get out of the bad loop and then go make something constructive out of it.
You really think you know something the rest of us don't. In your last two posts you've made it quite clear you know far less. The kind of mindless idiots who'd burn down a black church are not the kinds of people who are going to consider the political response to their actions.
More_Badass
Member
Ah, so mass conspiracy is easier to accept than racist assholes doing racist things
So not only are we extremist intolerant leftists apparently as bad as the racists; we're now literally the ones committing the acts of racism. To make the racists look more racist. Okay.
Jesus dude...all that article does is point at the video from a person known to fabricate/edit videos to look incriminating.
MetalGearZed
Member
you know, if you didn't want me to reply to you anymore, you could have just said so.
Don't think much really. It can perhaps serve as a refuge with themes, characters, etc. that transcend the seemingly dark times ahead but I don't think it can do much beyond that at all. I guess better online harassment counter measures could also help game not be an extension of the worst side of what just happened. But actually affect political change? I really don't think it can.
Gaming isn't big or respected enough to do shit like that. It also isn't art enough, but rather heavily commercialized and targeted largely at our id.
I guess GG is the potential counter example. But how much of that is just giving alt right types a venue and a cause to vent their bullshit with respect to? I think GG is a microcosm within gaming of greater social forces than gaming and not so much gaming's unique demons. I think GG types saw gaming as a safe space at some time and now are lashing out in typical alt right ways upon feeling threatened.
So I think in similar fashion, gaming can give a platform for more hopeful, loving thinking as well but it's not going to create that thinking in our public.
Gaming isn't big or respected enough to do shit like that. It also isn't art enough, but rather heavily commercialized and targeted largely at our id.
I guess GG is the potential counter example. But how much of that is just giving alt right types a venue and a cause to vent their bullshit with respect to? I think GG is a microcosm within gaming of greater social forces than gaming and not so much gaming's unique demons. I think GG types saw gaming as a safe space at some time and now are lashing out in typical alt right ways upon feeling threatened.
So I think in similar fashion, gaming can give a platform for more hopeful, loving thinking as well but it's not going to create that thinking in our public.
So true. Unfortunately I don't see a near future where the current strong form of capitalism is overthrown in the US (or elsewhere), so I don't know where to go from here other than trying to push back from within and work in the local level.
Googled this. Man, if I didn't know any better, I'd assume that this is from some comedy movie that I have to watch right now.
GregSequential
Neo Member
Thanks for making this thread Lime, and the Kyratzes stuff was really interesting.
I've been considering this a lot. I work as a Narrative Designer but in my spare time I have been creating a series of indie games this year on this very topic, PAPER BREXIT (https://gregbuchanan.itch.io/paper-brexit) and PAPER DRUMPF (https://gregbuchanan.itch.io/paper-drumpf) (links to reviews and videos on those pages so you can see if they're worth your while. Drumpf is much better, imo). I talked about why I felt these kinds of text games were a good start for this kind of topical political game here: http://www.polygon.com/2016/10/31/13458788/donald-trump-satire-game. So these are my initial experiments in using narrative driven games to push back against these kinds of shifts, but I think there's far far more to be done, especially in terms of the echo chamber that stops a lot of people from realising how strong these shifts are in the first place. Unfortunately I'm two for two at the moment, so hopefully my next game doesn't come to pass also :/
I've been considering this a lot. I work as a Narrative Designer but in my spare time I have been creating a series of indie games this year on this very topic, PAPER BREXIT (https://gregbuchanan.itch.io/paper-brexit) and PAPER DRUMPF (https://gregbuchanan.itch.io/paper-drumpf) (links to reviews and videos on those pages so you can see if they're worth your while. Drumpf is much better, imo). I talked about why I felt these kinds of text games were a good start for this kind of topical political game here: http://www.polygon.com/2016/10/31/13458788/donald-trump-satire-game. So these are my initial experiments in using narrative driven games to push back against these kinds of shifts, but I think there's far far more to be done, especially in terms of the echo chamber that stops a lot of people from realising how strong these shifts are in the first place. Unfortunately I'm two for two at the moment, so hopefully my next game doesn't come to pass also :/
O'Keefe. What a surprise. The person who's video was discredited up and down by everyone with any credibility. We all know why people like you divert into full blown denial and circus mode when people put cold hard facts in your face about racism. You're scared of admitting it. Now that Trump is in, why not just be open about it? I thought y'all hated political correctness.
The world is never going to forget what you and your kind are doing. You will never be forgiven for this shit. I hope you know that.
Weltall Zero
Member
That the Democrats are utter shit too doesn't make Trump any better of a human being. The world's greatest fool may say the Sun is shining, but that doesn't make it dark out.
Hale-XF11
Member
I wonder if it would be a good idea to include a stamp/ribbon on the back of game boxes (nothing too intrusive, but visible enough to catch your attention), that endorses diversity and equality and is supported by the developer and/or publisher. Like a seal of approval. It might be a nice gesture. I don't know, just brainstorming ideas right now.
I love how he talks like a cartoon character. Does he have an indoor voice?
It's like Morbo is trying to get me to believe his conspiracies.
funkystudent
Member
AAA Games industry is so afraid to do anything that might alienate the low to middle class white dude that I am not sure they will do anything unless a lot of other companies do it first.
At first it will be up to bigger tech companies like Apple and then Hollywood to take a stand and maybe... MAYBE a few game companies will follow.
I would love to be proven wrong though.
At first it will be up to bigger tech companies like Apple and then Hollywood to take a stand and maybe... MAYBE a few game companies will follow.
I would love to be proven wrong though.
CosmicQueso
Member
There's nothing that would stop a privately owned company from donating, and nothing stops employees or executives of publicly owned companies from donating either.
Publicly owned companies don't generally do this because it is not good stewardship of the stockholders money. If an individual stockholder wants to donate that's up to them. It would be inappropriate for a company to make a donation decision for the stockholders. It's really not the company's money to donate.
My inclination is that art is a useful outlet for catharsis and morale but rarely as an act of politics per se. Of course art is political, naturally, but in terms of connecting art to formal acts of politics to changes in outcomes, no, I don't think so. The representation debate is so potent for me precisely because it is not about formal politics, it's about individual engagement with work and how people feel about themselves. I think art matters for how we consider ourselves in the world. Also, it's not to say that there isn't value in telling personal stories even if they are politically inert. If (let's be honest: when) DACA ends, I think there is value in telling journalistic or artistic takes on the undocumented and young. I just don't think such takes prevent deportation.
I feel the same way about, say, moral boycotts of companies. If you don't want conflict diamonds, don't buy them. If you want to buy union-made clothes, do so. If you want to avoid homophobic donations, don't eat Chic-fil-A, etc. But I think you have to do those things based on your own conscience, rather than the belief that that change will actually ripple through formal politics. The latter is unlikely and counterproductive.
Jonas Kyratzes (The Sea Will Claim Everything, Talos Principle)--who if memory serves me correctly is Greek and socialist and politically active--wrote about this yesterday:
http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/2016/11/12/art-is-not-politics/
Here's a one-tweet summary of it:
I think his angle is more revolutionary than mine, in the sense that he seems to be refuting the idea that art is enough and angry that people want to mobilize through art rather than through formal organization and participation in the process. I think people gain great value in mobilizing through art, not because it affects change, but because it helps them cope with the situation they find themselves in.
But I think if you want to resist politics you disagree with, the best way to do so is through formal politics. Take back city councils, state houses, governorships, the house, and senate, work on ballot initiatives, organize a union, etc.
This is very much where I am.
Express anger through art, absolutely, but ultimately even something like donating to the DSA is far more effective.
Mm hmmm.
I'm not American and I certainly give a shit about US politics when the president elect talks about pulling out of the Paris agreement on climate change/greenhouse gases and appoints deniers as his advisors when almost the entire global field of scientists working in related fields say differently. 195 countries wrote it and agreed on it, one of the biggest bits of diplomacy of our generation, and Trump just gives them the finger.
The US has huge cultural, diplomatic, economic and martial influence abroad, and is also a massive contributor to vast piles of waste in the middle of the ocean, pollution, greenhouse gases and more due to business interests objecting to any kind of restraint.
It's cool to say 'your politics don't concern me', it's true for many smaller countries where their local politics go unnoticed and have little effect on the world at large. There are dozens of countries I'd struggle to even remember, let alone point out their leader or global influence.
But the US? So much power, and so much they can do to affect things globally (for good or ill) in virtually every sphere.
i think that like with any art form they should be free to do what they want, as in not do anything with a political agenda behind it (or do it)
forcing people to do stuff never creates any substantial and real change, tbh
stuff like double fine's reaching out to minority members to hire them is pretty cool, but it came out of their own volition, not someone forcing them, etc
yeah that video explains quite clearly why the left is failing around the world
forcing people to do stuff never creates any substantial and real change, tbh
stuff like double fine's reaching out to minority members to hire them is pretty cool, but it came out of their own volition, not someone forcing them, etc
yeah that video explains quite clearly why the left is failing around the world
Bl@de
Member
A game shouldn't be designed around political agendas but every company is free to do whatever they want. But it's a risk and comes with the possibilty of alienating customers. I'd like them to do nothing if it doesn't add anything to the game. Not everything has to be about Trump vs. Hillary. It's kind of sad that this form has become such a toxic place for the last few days.
A lot of white men only buy games that feature a white male lead (look at Gamergate), women and non-white men have been buying games with white male leads for decades. So from the POV of the publishers, they cater to the white male because a lot of them will ignore a game with a female or non-white lead.
It'll get worse now that racists feel vindicated because of Trump's win.
in other words, morality and long-term thinking are externalities that capitalism is completely incapable of dealing with
You just contradicted yourself in the same sentence.
Why not? One of the guys behind the original SimCity admitted they were pushing political agendas (anti nuclear, pro mass transit) and no one seemed to mind.
More_Badass
Member
Why not? If books, movies, music, art, and other mediums can have works designed around and about one's political agenda, why should games be different? Because someone might play something they disagree with?
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