Sure, and I could see that if we were discussing how politics are portrayed in-game. However, a number of posts in this thread are not about games at all but rather rehashes of arguments made in the off-topic forum.
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How can the games industry resist and push back against Trump & his fascism?
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Sure, and I could see that if we were discussing how politics are portrayed in-game. However, a number of posts in this thread are not about games at all but rather rehashes of arguments made in the off-topic forum.
Because believe it or not, this isn't just about the physical games but about the people making the games who are directly affected by politics.
And then what about the people discussing the topic at hand?
I'm guessing I'll need some grade-A escapism much more in the coming years - let's hope the Switch is as on-point as we're all hoping. The innocent joy and whimsy of Nintendo is often just what i need to recharge my positivity.
Having Trump begin popping up as a fightable villain in games sounds awfully awesome and cathartic too.
More effectively, though, I hope more devs unite around diversity they way they should have when gamergate cropped up. A lot of developers did push back against GG of course, which is wonderful, but if more took a hardline approach now against those same racist and sexist sentiments I think the gaming industry could make some steady and solid progress.
Having Trump begin popping up as a fightable villain in games sounds awfully awesome and cathartic too.
More effectively, though, I hope more devs unite around diversity they way they should have when gamergate cropped up. A lot of developers did push back against GG of course, which is wonderful, but if more took a hardline approach now against those same racist and sexist sentiments I think the gaming industry could make some steady and solid progress.
Even the posts that don't reference games or the industry at all?
Kind of? You accept that you don't enough about drone strikes that it outdoes your support of everything else.
Similarly, the people who say they voted for Trump because of the economy have accepted that LGBT rights, blacks, immigrants, climate, and so forth aren't important enough for them to be dissuaded against their support for his economic plans.
Did he lead his campaign with the promise to do that? Were drone strikes the key focus in his manifesto on which he rode to victory? No. So it isn't comparable to what you're replying to.
Even Grand Theft Auto had a ton of political messages and satirical social commentary about American lifestyle, their love for guns, their hatred for non-white immigrants...etc. People need to stop pretending that politics and entertainment are two completely separate things that exist in their own bubble.
I don't know if Obama said he would do that before being elected but if he did, then yes. If he didn't, that's another story.
I'm not even American so I don't have a place in your left vs right war, but this is how I see it.
When you vote someone, you vote all of his politic program, even if you only care about one part of it. You're chosing to ignore the part that clearly you know it will hurt other people.
IMO, people needs to start valoring more their vote, not only in America but also in Europe and everywhere. A vote means a lot of things for everyone, not just for yourself.
It's spot on. Hilary Clinton isn't left wing or liberal. In Europe, she'd be considered strongly right wing.
dottme
Member
Yep, a really good video.
Try using Gaf's search and plug in "Obama" , "Trump" or whatever related terms and see what results you get for Gaming Side. There's a precedent for political discussion that pertains to the games industry. Nothing exists in a vacuum here.
Tales of games can have boring and generic stories but even they can take a stance on something. You'll also never see a fantasy game that doesn't at least bring up race, economy, or gods.
Entertainment industry doesn't mean games are free from politics. Movies are part of the entertainment industry and there are plenty of them that have taken a stance.
Old movies like with Charlie Chaplin's dictator speech https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1fMvLbE85E
To Zootopia's whole discussion on racism.
Some are subtle, some are in your face, some are about specific current events, some speak more generally of problems that still persist. But you'll be hard pressed to find a lot of stuff without some sort of message in them.
More_Badass
Member
Yes, that's how it works. You may only be voting because of a single issue or a few issues or because of specific values, but casting a vote is all or nothing. The vote itself doesn't discriminate between those values and issues. It's not a vote for just the things you want or like about the candidate; it's a vote for the good and the bad of the candidate. The stuff you disagree with come with the things you do
"Strongly right wing" is putting it strongly. But she's firmly conservative.
Dsyndrome
Member
...
Then who do you vote for? Honestly. What is the logical conclusion to this?
Nobody is 100% with any candidate. Saying they are is being obtuse as fuck.
He started it in 2009. That's why I said 2012.
The vast majority of "off-topic" posts were posts derailing this thread and complaining about its existence.
you mean that every post in every thread on the gaming side always and unquestionable stays on the topic of gaming and never veers off to discuss things not related to gaming but related to the discussion at hand?
Ventilaator
Banned
So was all of liberalism just getting people to shut up about their terrible views? Trump got elected, and it turns out half of GAF is full of assholes?
That's somewhat upsetting.
That's somewhat upsetting.
dottme
Member
I agree. It can be politic. It can also just be pure entertainment. Thinking all moviers/all video games need a politic position is wrong.
Some will take a position, some will just tell you a story. And i wish the industry stay this way as there is place for everything.
While that's a given, you still have to vote for the whole package, so you compare the whole package and see which one is best. Pretending that isn't true is obtuse as fuck.
I'm not an American, but I wouldn't be able to vote for Donald Trump. That doesn't mean that I'm 100% in line with Clinton or Stein, but when almost everything Trump says is mindbogglingly horrible, just about anyone is better.
Politics are bad
If I don't like it, it's bad
Therefore
If I don't like it, it's politics
If I like it, it's not politics
everyday math
Banned
They would rather live in their little bubble then see the world around them. For some reason people put gaming on a seprate platform then other entertainment.
It is alt-righter idea for "i don't want positive portrayal of women, minorities or any ideas that don't agree with my preconceptions".
You can be sure a game that promotes nazism, sexism, etc. would be acceptable to them.
A Bully-style game in which the player completes tons of minigames to educate themselves, works hard to do well in school and keep their nose clean, then on graduation day they're shot by a police officer and there's nothing the player can do about it
A flight sim with a futuristic jet that never lands and must refuel and repair in the air but eventually it's revealed that it's because its trillionaire passengers have exploited the world's population so badly that landing anywhere is certain death
A city planning game where pollution is an unsolvable problem but it can be temporarily fixed by diverting it into poor communities and closing schools & increasing police presence there
A flight sim with a futuristic jet that never lands and must refuel and repair in the air but eventually it's revealed that it's because its trillionaire passengers have exploited the world's population so badly that landing anywhere is certain death
A city planning game where pollution is an unsolvable problem but it can be temporarily fixed by diverting it into poor communities and closing schools & increasing police presence there
More_Badass
Member
Of course not. Everyone will have something, say something, do something you disagree with. You will never agree 100% with anyone on everything. It's up to you to decide what you're willing to accept and what you're not
Hence the notion that you may not be racist or sexist or xenophobic, but voting for Trump helps to support and validate those ideals. The good aspects you're voting for comes with the bad that you might ignore or doesn't affect you or feel isn't an issue or whatnot
Silver Arrows
Banned
This. Alongside: after Gamergate when the simmering 'politics' finally in an ugly crescendo, people realized they simply couldn't shove their heads into the sand and disregard the entire situation by saying 'games are meant to be fun' or any of the other cop out excuses.
.
Drone strikes (which any candidate would have continued whether they say so or not - if you don't believe me you need to watch 'Dirty Wars') is not really comparable to the racism, bigotry and mysoginy on which Trump built and maintained his entire campaign.
You could be forgiven for overlooking the the one questionable thing which Obama was going to continue doing, because that was something the US Government was goign to continue with regardless. You cannot overlook promising to bring a new age of targeted discrimination, racism and, well, fascist ideology.
Games more than ever need to embrace diversity. Assuming that Trumps victory does embolden the alt-right as it seems to have done, it is more important than ever to work against this. Obviously I don't mean that you need to have quotas in every game, but you do need to think. Can my game promote diversity? Would making an effort to do so cheapen it? Questions like these are more relevant now than they were a week ago.
No one needs to be making anti-trump games (although I guess if you want to go for it, there's a market there). But equality in America took a hit and work needs to be done to heal that. It's not so much about Trump himself really, it's about what he stands for to so many.
No one needs to be making anti-trump games (although I guess if you want to go for it, there's a market there). But equality in America took a hit and work needs to be done to heal that. It's not so much about Trump himself really, it's about what he stands for to so many.
What a disgusting viewpoint from these people. Games could never be considered art if Devs listened to Gators and their mindset.
My question is with the philosophy that you're _____ if you voted for someone who is or supports _______. So using the all or nothing mindset, it seems like one is saying that although not the popular vote, the large amount of people who got him elected are now all the bad things of Trump. For example, every single one who voted for him is now racist. That part I don't understand.
My wife's very large family spent the last 6 months saying they didn't like either of the two, and voted for the one they detested the least. Because you need to vote/support for someone, otherwise you end up like many of the folks who didn't go vote - and thus (in my opinion) has no place/right to speak on the matter.
Edit: I had typed up something similar a minute ago, but then decided it wasn't about video games at all, but saw your post and quoted you to show my question (may belong?) in the thread. I love NeoGAF (don't ban me Bish! Not again! lol).
The only conclusion is that you must accept that your vote has every consequence that comes with the political stand of the candidate you voted for.
You are free to vote to Trump or whoever you want (I don't know who did you vote and I don't need to know it), just don't come and say "I voted Trump but I'm against his racist politics". You voted him, you knew his stand against races and genders, but you still voted him.
And that's fine but don't come as you didn't know, you just chose to ignore because you have other priorities, but your vote still empowered these views, and you know it did.
It's hard to find a candidate that you agree 100%, maybe even impossible. That's why I said a vote is a very important thing and people must take it more seriously. Even if you disagree in some things, you're still empowering those bad views in your vote. It's in your hands to decide if you can ignore that issue and go ahead, or vote someone else.
No, everyone that voted Trump is not necessary racist. But they are aware of Trump racist views, and agreed on ignore that part, and the issues that will bring to minorities, for their own reasons. So even if they're not racist, they empowered his views with their vote.
Compared to Clinton, Angela Merkel, member of Germany's major conservative party, looks left wing.
Taking a political stance is quite different from having a political message. A political message can be about sexism, racism, effects of nuclear weapons, authoritarianism, oppression, godhood, consequences of war, white and/or western supremacy, PTSD...etc.
enough making the bad guys brown people just for the sake of it, make shit more diverse.
also fucking loooooool at the insane graveyard of this thread. when will folks learn?
if you aren't actively speaking out against racism, you're enabling it.
also fucking loooooool at the insane graveyard of this thread. when will folks learn?
if you aren't actively speaking out against racism, you're enabling it.
everyday math
Banned
Are you talking to me? Or who I quoted?
Now i'm confused, do Gators think games should or shouldn't be art?
Or do they just want to disguise hate as art?
Seriously, alt-righters idiotic hate-spewing rhetoric is difficult to understand.
Bronx is being sarcastic... i think (sorry, difficult to tell in internet).
Scrub Mcgrubb
Member
Just going to add something kind of obvious here.... but the majority of the people who voted for Trump (mostly your parents and grandparents) don't play video games.
What next... start a twitter beef with them and challenge them to a rap battle or serve the republican dance crew? c'mon now....
What next... start a twitter beef with them and challenge them to a rap battle or serve the republican dance crew? c'mon now....
McMoneyman
Member
I'd be very surprised if the next GTA game doesn't have a Trump based parody-character.
ViolentP
Member
In this last race, I found myself having to determine which is the worst offense and try to protect myself from it. I ultimately decided national security was most important to me. While I sadly perpetuated other bad patterns, I don't regret my decision. Just unfortunate both sides were losing sides.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Preach it brother.
Mexico's two last presidents were from our right wing Conservative party and they've been many times on record (Twitter, Facebook, CNN interviews) as staunch Anti-Trumpers. Both also, especially Felipe Calderon, are concerned about climate change and often talk about it.
The right wing politics in the US perplexes me. There's no point of comparison.
everyday math
Banned
There's no escape from poeple being ignorant.
Tell us more.
The entirety of US right wing policy and rhetoric is to make people emotional enough to vote against their economic interests
Overlook?
It's so sad to see people "overlook" someone's actions because it's the norm, overlooking them is the exact reason those actions are normalized, brown people are being droned to death for daring to be born brown in a region where a lot of greedy rich people are interested in.
It seems you are interested in politics in video games since you entered this thread. If you don't care, don't read or post.
maquiladora
Member
This is hilarious. You clearly don't know much about the strong right wing in Europe.
If you mean they voted for Trump then they decided at best they didn't care about his fascism, wanting to deport millions of mexicans, put a large target on all muslims and increase Police power that targets african-americans racially and roll back womens rights and pro-LGBT laws with supreme court judges. Those were his crystal clear policies during his campaign and for the most part his only clear policies. So your family is ok with all of that. What would you call that honestly?
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