LegalEagleMike
Member
behold the culmination of Bungie's Halo vision.
/s...kinda
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GLIXEL: Is Halo Broken?
- Thread starter Rymuth
- Start date
behold the culmination of Bungie's Halo vision.
RebornYeti
Member
Yep but unlike Star Wars Gears only had one shitty sequel. If they had made Gears 4 in 2022 we would all be singing a different tune.
The main difference for me is that in Star Wars the new characters were good enough to carry the story, and in Gears they were not. The rest is true, though.
LordOfChaos
Member
Yep. i think Halo 4 was written as if it would be a self contained trilogy, but at some point between people not finding the Didact compelling, and between going "Hmm, what if infinite Halo?", Halo 5 happened and seemed to have a plot that was a complete offshoot of the organic progression of the narrative.
Halo 4 was a fine interpersonal story and sendoff to Cortana. Halo 5 bringing her back, even if it's a fragment, seems to nullify the impact of it. Also, the second judgement of the precursors, the mantle, the Primordial and MB...
The change from a trilogy to an unknown number of entries seems like a likely suspect of why Halo 5 felt like a summer blockbuster and not like the almost reverent tones of Halo.
Halo 4 was a fine interpersonal story and sendoff to Cortana. Halo 5 bringing her back, even if it's a fragment, seems to nullify the impact of it. Also, the second judgement of the precursors, the mantle, the Primordial and MB...
The change from a trilogy to an unknown number of entries seems like a likely suspect of why Halo 5 felt like a summer blockbuster and not like the almost reverent tones of Halo.
dragonelite
Member
Same here, the fact i'm still booting up the multiplayer to play some matches is a good sign for me.
Halo needs to go back to its basics. Simple story. "Simple" gameplay. Stop trying to copy what Call of Duty or Battlefield is doing and go back to the bread and butter of classic Halo. When it worked, the Halo 2 Anniversary multiplayer in Master Chief Collection was absolutely fantastic and it totally made me believe that classic Halo gameplay can still work in this era of video gaming. I think 343 forgot that part of what made Halo explode in the first place was that the game was relatively easy to pick up and learn, even for people who weren't super into first person shooters. I don't think you could say the same about Halo 5. And to be fair, Bungie started to run into this problem as well with Halo Reach.
Story wise, just get back to basics. Halo 1, 2, and 3 were pretty simple straight forward stories that had some solid world building that could be expanded through side media. Halo 4 and 5 lost its way in this regard.
Halo is "broken" because both the gameplay and the story are trying to do too much, and it runs counter to what made Halo work in the first place.
Story wise, just get back to basics. Halo 1, 2, and 3 were pretty simple straight forward stories that had some solid world building that could be expanded through side media. Halo 4 and 5 lost its way in this regard.
Halo is "broken" because both the gameplay and the story are trying to do too much, and it runs counter to what made Halo work in the first place.
And I feel like being outside of those 2 groups is strange; as a total outsider (haven't played a HALO since H2 or ODST) I feel they aren't doing anything to keep up with their contemporaries. You don't have to do wallrunning but I just feel HALO games aren't doing much to invite brand new players. I always dreamed of a more sandbox-y HALO (ODST partially provided that) but I'm so surprised it hasn't happened yet -- especially with open world being the not-so-new-anymore hotness at this point.
The story in HALO has always been, in my opinion, a tangled mess, so I'm not sure why the campaigns seem to weigh so heavily on developing and untangling that mess instead of really changing the way the core game is played. If you're like me, story will never be a reason to play HALO games, so it continues to baffle me how much importance is placed on it with each campaign.
I've always strongly, strongly disliked Halo 3. To this day playing it on MCC is such a chore, but that's definitely not the general consensus and so my friend group tends to play it quite a bit at Halo get togethers. As far as MP goes my personal preference would probably be something like H3 & 4 < Reach < 1 < 2 < 5 (favorite).
Complicated
Banned
Destiny is worse than Halo in almost every single comparable way though. Even Halo Reach, which is the most like Destiny, is better than Destiny; and it's arguably the worst Halo game.
Bubba_Sparks
Member
I just feel like Halo has nothing left to give. The formula has been done to death, and doesn't need to be iterated on further. It was the king of castle in its heyday, but that time has passed. Move on, and try and make something fresh and original.
Yeah. I'd much rather have Halo 5 than Destiny. Destiny has way more wrong with it than Halo does
Fahzgoolin
Banned
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Twist, MS hires Bungie to make Halo 6.
Shil Pencer
Member
In my opinion 343 delivered greatness and failures
Halo 4's campaign/story was the best out of all of them sadly its multiplayer was a misfire
Halo 5's campaign was a misfire, but its multiplayer is the best since Halo 2...id even say better than Halo 2
As a huge Halo fan i absolutely hate how divided the community is and i feel as though its a community that doesnt even know what it wants.
Halo 4's campaign/story was the best out of all of them sadly its multiplayer was a misfire
Halo 5's campaign was a misfire, but its multiplayer is the best since Halo 2...id even say better than Halo 2
As a huge Halo fan i absolutely hate how divided the community is and i feel as though its a community that doesnt even know what it wants.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
MS needs the series as it is one of their tent poles. I question whether the gaming space needs another Halo right now. Frankly the series would do best if it went afk for a while.
Give the series a rest. Many would hate this, but I wouldn't mind if the series took a decade off.
Give the series a rest. Many would hate this, but I wouldn't mind if the series took a decade off.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Halo 1 - 3 was a nightmare for new players wanting to get good in MP. I'd almost compare it to CS.
I'm gonna get torn up for this but I agree with what you said and that's why I think Destiny is the best HALO game since ODST.
343i needs to be given carte blanche to completely reinvent what HALO is before I find it interesting again.
The Albatross
Member
This is the problem with most series after many iterations. They are tethered to their past in that they can't do things substantially different, and so they necessarily become stale or mostly mediocre.
There's a handful of series that are able to change their formula and improve, but a lot of times you need some mediocre effort from them to challenge the formula. Resident Evil 4 was able to challenge the formula from RE's in the past and made arguably the best RE. The Mario series has been able to almost always innovate, but Nintendo had to split off the series into different versions of the Mario brand to continue making innovative games (Super Mario RPG, Luigi's Mansion, New Super Mario, Super Mario 3D, and others), and some of them are misses. Zelda has been affective as changing up the makeup of its games as well.
But while there are a handful of series that can re-invent themselves and stay relevant, the majority can't. Halo still sells very well, still has a loyal fan base, and still does well critically, so Halo does better than most franchises, but for a lot of players it's on the "Stale" side of things.
Disagree strongly on Halo 1 and 2, and I don't really even like the Halo series. Halo 1 and 2 were the first multiplayer FPS games for many people. Halo 1 and 2 were reintroductions to what console FPS games could be, much like CoD4:MW.
It's like the Roman Reigns of videogame clips
There's a handful of series that are able to change their formula and improve, but a lot of times you need some mediocre effort from them to challenge the formula. Resident Evil 4 was able to challenge the formula from RE's in the past and made arguably the best RE. The Mario series has been able to almost always innovate, but Nintendo had to split off the series into different versions of the Mario brand to continue making innovative games (Super Mario RPG, Luigi's Mansion, New Super Mario, Super Mario 3D, and others), and some of them are misses. Zelda has been affective as changing up the makeup of its games as well.
But while there are a handful of series that can re-invent themselves and stay relevant, the majority can't. Halo still sells very well, still has a loyal fan base, and still does well critically, so Halo does better than most franchises, but for a lot of players it's on the "Stale" side of things.
Disagree strongly on Halo 1 and 2, and I don't really even like the Halo series. Halo 1 and 2 were the first multiplayer FPS games for many people. Halo 1 and 2 were reintroductions to what console FPS games could be, much like CoD4:MW.
behold the culmination of Bungie's Halo vision.
/s...kinda
It's like the Roman Reigns of videogame clips
VincentMatts
Member
There are ways to keep the formula 'traditional' (gun, melee, grenades) while innovating in other aspects.
Like, why cant the SP be more open ended? Why cant i choose the missions i wanna go on? Why cant i have RPG elements and for example: be able to upgrade my armor, shields, sprint, jump, melee, etc while playing the SP? The SP is where Halo needs real innovation and its where 343 can be the most creative. Not MP.
343 changed everything about MP in 4 and people hated it, changed nothing via SP and people hated it. Do the opposite.
Change the SP up and be innovative, but keep the MP as a refined version of Halo5.
Its not god damn complicated. I dont understand why they feel like it is.
Or you could you know, just not buy the next installment and let others buy it and enjoy it.
Good god no
*Handshake*
Honestly, Halo doesn't need perks, classes, weapon skins, attachments, REQ stuff, etc. Have everyone start with an AR and a pistol, and then have everyone try to control maps in order to control choke points, power weapons, or power-ups. It's simple, straight forward, everyone can understand it, and it adds a meta game to the whole thing. Additionally bring back some of the unique parts of each weapon, like plasma stun, certain weapons activate camo faster, etc.
Additionally, they could use a philosophical overhaul on map design. Master Chief Collection made me quickly realize how much better map design was in the older games. Again, those maps had a simple-yet-effective design to them just like the gameplay
I really can't agree with this. Halo 1, Halo 2, and Halo 3 were the gateway games into first person shooters for a lot of people back in the 2000s.
VincentMatts
Member
People wanna play SP games that have a good progression system, if they keep the SP exactly like theyve been doing it, they will continue to fail at it. SP is where 343 can be the most creative.
ClosingADoor
Member
It's not like we are being drowned in Halo games. This is not a yearly series. It's a game every 3 years or so, which seems like a decent span between releases.
RedSparrows
Member
The navel gazing about Halo is bloody tiresome. Same old arguments over and over. 343 can't win, they should do whatever the fuck they like.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
And then COD happened and the new generation, aka me, never played Halo.
If Halo wants to go back to old mechanics it has to at least keep the sprint.
Interficium
Banned
agreed about the maps. nothing memorable in reach, 4, 5
I think there's an argument to be made that if Halo didn't cause the first person shooter genre to explode on consoles, COD might have not exploded in popularity like it did at least on consoles.
Also, fuck sprint. Sprint is part of the reason modern Halo map design has gone to shit.
LegalEagleMike
Member
Comparing sales is the ultimate metacritic amirite.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Yup. Halo is clearly broken, and don't forget irrelevant. MS should just shut 343 down and hire Bungie to revive Halo after Destiny 3.
That is a double edged sword though, the sudden change in art style from Halo 3/Reach to Halo 4 is something I and many fans have every right to be critical about. It would be like if Disney literally changed how everything and everyone looked in Star Wars after they took over the reigns of the series and retconned the previous designs out of existence.
VincentMatts
Member
sales does say one thing, people actually liked something about that game no matter how bad it was compared to another.
destiny has more viewers on twitch than halo on a daily basis. And theres one reason for it, loot. people wanna better gear and it becomes an addiction.
the cards in WZ are somewhat like that, to a lesser degree.
LegalEagleMike
Member
Yep, also Nintendo should get Rockstar to do the next Zelda.
I know this is a joke post but good lord I wouldn't even want modern Bungie taking over Halo. It seems like a lot of the brain trust that made Halo what it was isn't even with the company anymore
Sorry, but that sounds like pure shit. There's nothing wrong with the gameplay. Adding half-assed RPG and crafting shit to the campaign would detract from what makes it great -- the solid gunplay and movement. Not every game needs to have collectibles and shit like that to "customize" your character. Keep that shit away from this series -- at least the mainline games.
I also push back against the assertion that adding Locke was the reason Halo 5's campaign was so weak and that there should only be one playable character. Halo 2 had an amazing story and fleshed out the Covenant BECAUSE you played as the Arbiter. Seeing the war from his viewpoint and expanding on the Covenant really helped flesh out a fairly bare bones universe, at that point. There's nothing wrong with multiple playable characters -- or, at some point, an entire game without Chief at the helm. The problem was with the poor writing Locke and Co. were saddled with during an already fairly poor story.
What 343i needs to do is to stop adding in EU content into the games. I gave up on reading Halo novels and the other extended universe stuff somewhere along Contact Harvest. I dabbled a little in Greg Bear's Forerunner trilogy, but never finished it. Seeing Didact show up in Halo 4, I was completely lost because they did a piss poor job of explaining who the hell he was and why he was so pissed. Do that shit in the game. You introduce a character into the series for the first time, you need to do the leg work in that game to explain him and his motivations -- not abandon crucial character development in a book the majority of your playerbase is never going to touch.
I say the exact same thing for Blue Team in Halo 5. Anyone who has played the games solely, it was beaten into their heads from Halo: Combat Evolved 15 years prior that Chief was the only Spartan II left alive. Now, all of a sudden, there's four of them, and they've been friends for years. What? As a fan of the fiction up to that point, I was glad to see them there. But they couldn't have had a worse introduction for someone who's never delved deeper into the lore.
Introduce these elements, expand the universe, but do it in the games. Introduce characters, give them justification and wrap up storylines in the games. Use the EU as fluff and to build off stuff in the games. But don't make people go to the EU to find out what the hell just happened.
Rodney McKay
Member
Even though it's very light on story, I think it honestly was a big part of the reason I enjoyed the first 3 games so much.
But after 3 I just haven't cared as much about the series. It was either prequels I didnt particularly care about, or (with 4) sequels that feel like unnecessary and poorly told expansions (needing to read the books or separate online codex things).
But after 3 I just haven't cared as much about the series. It was either prequels I didnt particularly care about, or (with 4) sequels that feel like unnecessary and poorly told expansions (needing to read the books or separate online codex things).
Complicated
Banned
Forget Bungie, why not go for the real money-makers? I bet Niantic or Supercell would be willing to make the next Halo!
I know your intentions are good, but lets not keep repeating the discourse of, "i want this we want that", because that is not at all represantative of what everyone wants, and believe me sometimes fans don't know what they want, and can be one of the reasons for the demise of a franchise.
Arguing that Cortana acts out of character etc is very helpfull i would believe, as long as evidence is provided.
More competition + single platform + Xbox One hardware/DRM reveal + Halo Reach/4 fAN Reaction + MCC travesty + lack of splitscreen support + Halo 5's overtly in your face pro gamer promotion = initial Halo 5 sales.
The game has sold over 5 million copies which is more than what most first party exclusives sell. Destiny sold as much due to high expectations/overhype and Bungie's first multiplatform game after creating one of the biggest IP's in game history.
Leyasu
Banned
Come on hands up, who on here was the writer of that....article/opinion piece!
Halo 5 is best multiplayer of the series. Just let down by shoddy maps, no BTB, a lack of gametype variety at launch, 343s fucking shitty idea of matchmaking and absolutely amateur use of the azure network at their disposal and most importantly, being a game that requires skill to be rewarding.
I am not a great halo player. I love the game because it so fucking satisfying. But, it is soul crushing for those don't devote themselves to it. Nowadays, there is a plethora of shooters that are much easier to master to choose from.
Halo 5 is best multiplayer of the series. Just let down by shoddy maps, no BTB, a lack of gametype variety at launch, 343s fucking shitty idea of matchmaking and absolutely amateur use of the azure network at their disposal and most importantly, being a game that requires skill to be rewarding.
I am not a great halo player. I love the game because it so fucking satisfying. But, it is soul crushing for those don't devote themselves to it. Nowadays, there is a plethora of shooters that are much easier to master to choose from.
Mechanized
Member
COD ate Halo's lunch in terms of creating a new generation of fps fans. The target demo Halo had in college was overtaken by COD. And kids wanting to be more mature and having things they shouldn't, that older people play, has grabbed each successive generation coming up so far. Halo can't compete with that. Doesn't matter how good the combat scenarios are, how classic the gameplay is or how much of a COD-Clone it is. They can't win this fight. They either re-invent the brand or continue their current trajectory into obscurity.
The old stories were simple and light, and that is definitely why they worked. At no point where you really lost regarding what was going on, and the story also left some things intentionally open ended in a way that allowed your mind to fill in its own blanks while still not interfering with the story as a whole. Like, in the first game, the first mention of the Forerunners is a quick off-handed comment by Cortana when you're driving around in a Warthog in the second level. They give you just enough to piece together that the Forerunners were an old race, but beyond that they leave it up to your imagination. You could make the game as simple or as complex as you wanted to a degree.
Deputy Moonman
Member
Pretty much yep. 343 has done the hardest part in mixing up the halo formula while also getting the mechanics to feel right. If they can just nail down a good story and build upon what they've learned from 4 and 5, they will have an incredible game on their hands. And people who have actually played halo 5 know that the game-play is anything but stale.
highrider
Banned
The gameplay in Halo 5 is superlative, nothing touches it on console to me. The stories in Halo were never very good, but I think the main loss I see in 343's iterations of the series is encounter design in the campaign. You're just kind of running around shooting guys, whereas Bungie somehow was able to make you feel more involved in the process.
I'd add Halo Wars 2 on that list aswell. 343 Industries needs to use it's art style going forward as it's the perfect blend of 343i's design's and Bungie's.
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