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GLIXEL: Is Halo Broken?
- Thread starter Rymuth
- Start date
potatohead
Member
Yes. We still play local Halo 3.
This is one of the biggest issues for sure. Their art style is horrendous. They seriously overdo the armour and the art with way too much nonsense detailing that just makes everything look ugly as fuck. Like jesus fuck look what they did to the little grunt dudes. Fucking terrible.
The remasters in terms of art design are absolutely atrocious too. Whenever I play Halo Anniversary I just cannot bring myself to use the new graphics, because the art design is so so bad.
They just don't understand the basics of what makes the Halo world design so attractive in the first place.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
A great point many seem to disregard or are just unaware of.
Halo GO: Clash of Spartans
"The fact is Bungies games were often more important than they were good,"
The old Bungie games were both good and important. Halo 2 was a really solid first person shooter. Halo 2 also laid the foundation for how basically every game from that point forward handled online multiplayer/matchmaking
TheGameshark
Member
Yup Bungie were at the top of their game then
The Dear Leader
Banned
Give Halo to id or Machine Games pls.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
New Halo fans Vs. old Halo fans basically.
And 343 and MS are caught in the middle.
And 343 and MS are caught in the middle.
ALLseeingEYE
Member
Personally, I find 343 Industustry's changes for Halo 5, to be far more ambitious than anything Bungie did with Halo since the first game.
The core gameplay changes for 5, Warzone, nevermind adding a server browser and striving for 60fos. This all pushed the series in a way Bungie never even attempted. I also found 5 to have the best core gameplay if the entire series.
I always found Bungie's halo games to be disappointingly conservative for a series that started off by proclaiming it was "combat evolved". I always wanted more ambitious versus modes, avolving ambition for the campaign modes.
I guess Destiny is what I was hoping Bungie would shoot for, and they eventually rocked the world with that. I'd love to see 343i take on Destiny, and evolve Halo even more.
The core gameplay changes for 5, Warzone, nevermind adding a server browser and striving for 60fos. This all pushed the series in a way Bungie never even attempted. I also found 5 to have the best core gameplay if the entire series.
I always found Bungie's halo games to be disappointingly conservative for a series that started off by proclaiming it was "combat evolved". I always wanted more ambitious versus modes, avolving ambition for the campaign modes.
I guess Destiny is what I was hoping Bungie would shoot for, and they eventually rocked the world with that. I'd love to see 343i take on Destiny, and evolve Halo even more.
New Coke vs Coke Classic
"but in getting the series moving again, it was also a success."
Only insofar as there had not been a halo game for a few years and then there was another halo game
"more important than they were good"
sure, I guess, since few games are more important than Halo. Unless we're saying "they weren't actually good," which is blatantly untrue.
smdh what did i just read
Only insofar as there had not been a halo game for a few years and then there was another halo game
"more important than they were good"
sure, I guess, since few games are more important than Halo. Unless we're saying "they weren't actually good," which is blatantly untrue.
smdh what did i just read
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
I wouldn't go that far. It's still a big franchise. Still has life left.
Frank, if you're out there, ODST 2 for Scorpio.
Not necessarily the case. Some old Halo fans are not overtly critical of 343 at all and have no big issue's with new Halo. Myself I'm a fan of both old and new Halo and critical of both on various issues where I feel it's needed.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
What wowed me about Halo were these gigantic sandbox-esque levels with vehicle integration, a sense of adventure, and bombastic gunplay. The Island level in Halo 3 that has you in a Hornet, Warthog and on foot was fucking Peak Halo. Even in Reach I was still experiencing the scale of Bungie's concept of Halo with Banshee's perching on landing platforms in a huge city level.
343's Halo's just don't seem to have anything nearly as new or expansive. A Mech suit I guess? The opposite of a super speedy jeep or alien aircraft.
Worse still, people trot out on stage at E3 and talk about Halo's "rich narrative". Halo's narrative is shit. You fight fucking gorillas for half of it that have turned on the lizard men. It's derivative Aliens sci-fi that back when it was good knew how to balance hype moments and great gameplay sections. "You're really gonna care about this space cyborgs". No, I'm not. Especially when you're stretching a sentence of plot (Cortana's gone bad!!) out over like a whole fucking trilogy.
I would just let 343 make something original one year. When you're telling them to fill a glass or occupy a space that is 'Halo' there's a hard limit on what a team think they're allowed to do. Check boxes come in and it just becomes a rote development of "another one of those". I remember 343 trying to suggest Halo 4 was gonna be this Metroid Prime thing, and it just fucking wasn't at all and I am confused as to how they ever thought it would be.
tl;dr Halo is dad.
who knows where that Bungie went as Destiny is even worse than where Halo is imho
343's Halo's just don't seem to have anything nearly as new or expansive. A Mech suit I guess? The opposite of a super speedy jeep or alien aircraft.
Worse still, people trot out on stage at E3 and talk about Halo's "rich narrative". Halo's narrative is shit. You fight fucking gorillas for half of it that have turned on the lizard men. It's derivative Aliens sci-fi that back when it was good knew how to balance hype moments and great gameplay sections. "You're really gonna care about this space cyborgs". No, I'm not. Especially when you're stretching a sentence of plot (Cortana's gone bad!!) out over like a whole fucking trilogy.
I would just let 343 make something original one year. When you're telling them to fill a glass or occupy a space that is 'Halo' there's a hard limit on what a team think they're allowed to do. Check boxes come in and it just becomes a rote development of "another one of those". I remember 343 trying to suggest Halo 4 was gonna be this Metroid Prime thing, and it just fucking wasn't at all and I am confused as to how they ever thought it would be.
tl;dr Halo is dad.
Bits N Pieces
Member
You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you cant please all of the people all of the time.
dr_rus
Member
Why? Halo has nothing to do with anything which these studios have made recently. Halo is in fact a COD in space.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Said it before, but I think we're long overdue for the games to let go of the script-heavy approach. Tee off with the setup and basic exposition, but let players drive the direction and moment-to-moment experience by their success and failure at any chosen approach to the game's crises, escalating the danger and complexity in as organic a way as possible. Engage the player in the lore in a more natural, take it or leave it-kind of way, like a From Souls title. Embrace the sandbox above all else because that's always been the series' single greatest trait. Also, finally make a fully traversable ring-world that serves that focus on player choice. That or start letting 343 out of the barn to do other things as, despite the evolution seen in 5, Halo has been growing a bit stale for a decade now.
Used the really love Halo. Even played it on a professional level, went to tournaments, etc. You should think I would've really loved Halo 5 since its gameplay is actually pretty good. And it is clear that the game has been designed with competitive play in mind. But I dunno. There is something missing. Kind quite put my finger on it. But it's missing its soul. It's missing the fun. Maybe it's the art style that's just really drab. Maybe it's missing the sandbox elements that were so present in the Bungie games that made so many random things possible (even if it could be really annoying for competitive play at times).
I just dunno. Was really excited by the gameplay. But gave up on it really quick.
I just dunno. Was really excited by the gameplay. But gave up on it really quick.
"The fact is Bungies games were often more important than they were good,"
Do not agree. Bungie's Halo games were fun and the MP was a blast.
What makes people think that if halo 6 went with a classic gameplay (no sprint, thruster etc) will suddenly make it the new hype game and everyone will come back to play halo?
Especially when all popular multiplayer games on console (destiny, cod, bf1,ow) have a ton of abilities/classes and imo feel unbalanced, so why would anyone from those games come back to halo with the classic gameplay?
Imo they need to stick with halo 5 gameplay with minor changes and have a feature complete game from day 1
-Good arena/dev BTB maps
-More gametypes (assault, koth...)
-Classic Firefight
Especially when all popular multiplayer games on console (destiny, cod, bf1,ow) have a ton of abilities/classes and imo feel unbalanced, so why would anyone from those games come back to halo with the classic gameplay?
Imo they need to stick with halo 5 gameplay with minor changes and have a feature complete game from day 1
-Good arena/dev BTB maps
-More gametypes (assault, koth...)
-Classic Firefight
I think it would have a similar effect DOOM 2016 had when that dropped. Basically, it would be a really great "back to basics" shooter. That would end up getting pretty solid word of mouth
LegalEagleMike
Member
I am legit curious what kind of revenue these games are bringing in with the multiplayer micro transactions. It seems to be in a ton of my favorite games now and even I buy a handful when I first dive into a new game if it grabs my attention.
Halo 5 gameplay is already unique compared to other FPS out there, so i don't agree that it feels too much like "the others" not even close tbh.
and doom multiplayer is dead, correct me if i am wrong
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Doom wasn't 100% back to basics. It was a mix of old school and modern mechanics.
What the hell? Hell no it isn't. Just hell no. This is too far. You have gone too far. There is no excusing the terrible AI and awful "let's just throw more at then this time" boss design or the repetitive uninteresting gameplay on offer from 343i's new brand of enemies. How anyone could think that utter tripe is at all comparable to the original trilogy is beyond me. You sir are WRONG.
Halo has been around for a long time in gaming terms. It's been over 15 years since Halo 1 was released. I think that when people say 343i lost the "soul" of the series, they're unable often unable to distinguish between the quality of the games as standalone experiences, and the experience of Playing Halo.
Playing Halo in the days of Bungie's reign meant playing with friends of splitscreen/system link/XBL in a time when Halo was the biggest thing around. Now? Halo is an exclusive on a weaker system, the latest entry eliminated splitscreen, the shooter market is more diverse than ever before, and I think perhaps most importantly, a lot of its fans have grown older. I know I have. I don't think I could get together more than 1 or 2 people for a night of Halo splitscreen now whereas everybody I knew played it in high school.
It's a completely different era, both for the franchise and for the original fans of the series, and I feel that 343i has one of the hardest jobs in the industry to try and make distinctly new Halo games while attempting to please old fans and meet their (frankly unrealistic) expectations.
(also halo 5 has god tier mechanics please keep it frankie)
Playing Halo in the days of Bungie's reign meant playing with friends of splitscreen/system link/XBL in a time when Halo was the biggest thing around. Now? Halo is an exclusive on a weaker system, the latest entry eliminated splitscreen, the shooter market is more diverse than ever before, and I think perhaps most importantly, a lot of its fans have grown older. I know I have. I don't think I could get together more than 1 or 2 people for a night of Halo splitscreen now whereas everybody I knew played it in high school.
It's a completely different era, both for the franchise and for the original fans of the series, and I feel that 343i has one of the hardest jobs in the industry to try and make distinctly new Halo games while attempting to please old fans and meet their (frankly unrealistic) expectations.
(also halo 5 has god tier mechanics please keep it frankie)
Zeus The Dino
Member
Halo 5 just isnt fun to play.
Halo's 4v4 multiplayer is better than its ever been. 343 somehow managed to take it back to its roots while also adding in some seriously game changing elements. The final product is phenomenal.
Everything else is... Not so great. They need to build on the Arena gameplay they've already perfected, but put some serious work into rethinking all other aspects.
Everything else is... Not so great. They need to build on the Arena gameplay they've already perfected, but put some serious work into rethinking all other aspects.
I see this as a two point problem. First, It needs a fantastically story, executed well, that's personal and also epic. Do not make us read logs for the details. Do not make us watch movies or animated shows. Do not emulate Bungie, they got you into this mess because they don't like to tell storys, they like to let you find one. That doesn't work anymore. Halo 4 was a step in the right direction in terms of characters, but they cluttered that up in 5.
Second, they need to know what type of game they are making. Halo 5's multiplayer is the right direction, and they should continue that, but there needs to be big changes in the campaign, We need a tight focus. I want one, singular vision of what they are trying to do in the next game, not one part of a multimedia marketing event.
All that said, the quality of these games remains high, and my only real bad taste was the multiplayer in 4. I don't think it's broken. I don't think there has been a bad Halo game yet. It's just not riding the high that the series had with 1-3.
Zeus The Dino
Member
Does the shitty aiming system not affect you?
Im 💀
I was huge into CE-2-3-Reach then fell off entirely when I bought a PS3. I think I briefly played 4 out of curiosity.
I recently got a XB1 Halo bundle and just finished replaying 1-4 and am in the middle of 5 now.
4 feels like an epilogue chapter to the whole story, which kind of works but at the same time gives it a cheapened feeling. The MP was also just, well, too much Call of Duty.
So far the Halo 5 story feels like something a bit smaller in scale and I appreciate the change, and I will also add that the multiplayer feels absolutely fantastic. I guess my point being that 343 figured out the multiplayer, but needs narrative help. A lot of large scale, galaxy spanning stories have been told already in the Halo universe, so that's not an easy task.
I recently got a XB1 Halo bundle and just finished replaying 1-4 and am in the middle of 5 now.
4 feels like an epilogue chapter to the whole story, which kind of works but at the same time gives it a cheapened feeling. The MP was also just, well, too much Call of Duty.
So far the Halo 5 story feels like something a bit smaller in scale and I appreciate the change, and I will also add that the multiplayer feels absolutely fantastic. I guess my point being that 343 figured out the multiplayer, but needs narrative help. A lot of large scale, galaxy spanning stories have been told already in the Halo universe, so that's not an easy task.
TheUnsunghero26
Member
343 absolutely nailed the mechanics and multiplayer in Halo 5. It's clear that the team learned a lot from Halo 4. Giving every player the same degree of improved mobility options instead of breaking them out into loadouts, and going back to weapon control on maps was a great move. They were able to keep the series identity while still make it feel fresh. I actually would have liked to see Gears 4 make more changes like this. I love the feel of Halo 5, including the sprint (having shield not recharge while you sprint is a cool way to balance it imo). It's among the best playing shooters this gen.
The campaign on the other hand... It's not terrible nor is it amazing. It's really forgettable. And that's something a Halo campaign shouldn't be. With games like Titanfall 2 showing how good single player campaigns can be, I hope 343 changes it up a lot for the next Halo.
The campaign on the other hand... It's not terrible nor is it amazing. It's really forgettable. And that's something a Halo campaign shouldn't be. With games like Titanfall 2 showing how good single player campaigns can be, I hope 343 changes it up a lot for the next Halo.
There didn't need to be a group of "new" and "old" Halo fans if the transition from Halo 3 to Halo 4 would have respected the source material better. You could write an essay on everything that changed from the gameplay, story, sound design, music, multiplayer, and art design.
Zeus The Dino
Member
Nevermind I didnt catch where you said Halo 4 is strong gameplay wise 😂
Makes your opinion regarding everything Halo automatically irrelevant
LegalEagleMike
Member
Despite my defending of Halo 5 I definitely agree the repeat boss fight was a negative. Look now there are more of them!
Gravemind IV
Member
It really comes down to a few things.. in fact, I had given the new Saga the benefit of the doubt up until Halo 5 (because fuck me, that story is terrible).
There are a few things that seem to majorly bug me in 343's installments..
One of them being the art style:
Halo Wars 2 really reminded me how much better the old art style is. In fact, Halo Wars 2 actually had a nice blend of the classic and the new. For instance, going back to the more sleek and noble Elites rather than the clumsy and brutish ones we see in Halo 4 and Halo 5. However, a lot of the Forerunner architecture borrows elements from 343's designs. The brutes look really nice as well, a good evolution of Halo 2 and Halo 3 (Atriox in particular is great).
Also, the UNSC feels like a military force again in Halo Wars 2, which has been one of my biggest gripes in Halo 4 and Halo 5. We went from the green machine and angular constructs to whites and all sorts of colours.. in addition, the abundance of UNSC maps in Halo 5 are all circular. Just keep the UNSC kinda blocky and with an assortment of green, grays and perhaps a dash of yellow here and there.
Also, I can understand them wanting to go for a solid 60fps. But the sprite like movements are NOT the trade-off that I wanted to make. Overall, I think Halo 2 Anniversary is graphically superior to Halo 5. Have you seen the difference between a Wraith shell in Halo 2A and Halo 5? It's ridiculous.
Also in general, the Bungie games nailed setpieces and I still get a kick out of it to boot up MCC and play any level of the original three because there's always something that's completely random. I recently replayed the Storm mission in Halo 3 and for the first time I didn't straight up go for the elevator to get on the Scarab, but I actually participated in the Mongoose attack. One of the Scarab's legs missed me by an inch, but another mongoose wasn't as lucky and that segment did more for me than the entire end stretch of Halo 5 did.
Overall, there are definitely some good gameplay elements in there. But if they can go forward with Halo Wars 2's artstyle as a hybrid of the old and new.. spice up the gameplay to feel like proper Halo again (in campaign at least) and come up with a story that's more evocative of the earlier ones then I am all for it.
I am very curious as to what we could potentially see of Halo 6 at E3 this year, but all in all Halo 5 really did make me lose interest in the story of Halo post Halo 3 (sans Halo Wars 2) and that's something that I never had expected.
There are a few things that seem to majorly bug me in 343's installments..
One of them being the art style:
Halo Wars 2 really reminded me how much better the old art style is. In fact, Halo Wars 2 actually had a nice blend of the classic and the new. For instance, going back to the more sleek and noble Elites rather than the clumsy and brutish ones we see in Halo 4 and Halo 5. However, a lot of the Forerunner architecture borrows elements from 343's designs. The brutes look really nice as well, a good evolution of Halo 2 and Halo 3 (Atriox in particular is great).
Also, the UNSC feels like a military force again in Halo Wars 2, which has been one of my biggest gripes in Halo 4 and Halo 5. We went from the green machine and angular constructs to whites and all sorts of colours.. in addition, the abundance of UNSC maps in Halo 5 are all circular. Just keep the UNSC kinda blocky and with an assortment of green, grays and perhaps a dash of yellow here and there.
Also, I can understand them wanting to go for a solid 60fps. But the sprite like movements are NOT the trade-off that I wanted to make. Overall, I think Halo 2 Anniversary is graphically superior to Halo 5. Have you seen the difference between a Wraith shell in Halo 2A and Halo 5? It's ridiculous.
Also in general, the Bungie games nailed setpieces and I still get a kick out of it to boot up MCC and play any level of the original three because there's always something that's completely random. I recently replayed the Storm mission in Halo 3 and for the first time I didn't straight up go for the elevator to get on the Scarab, but I actually participated in the Mongoose attack. One of the Scarab's legs missed me by an inch, but another mongoose wasn't as lucky and that segment did more for me than the entire end stretch of Halo 5 did.
Overall, there are definitely some good gameplay elements in there. But if they can go forward with Halo Wars 2's artstyle as a hybrid of the old and new.. spice up the gameplay to feel like proper Halo again (in campaign at least) and come up with a story that's more evocative of the earlier ones then I am all for it.
I am very curious as to what we could potentially see of Halo 6 at E3 this year, but all in all Halo 5 really did make me lose interest in the story of Halo post Halo 3 (sans Halo Wars 2) and that's something that I never had expected.
i always bought halo for the singleplayer, been doing so since my dad brought an og xbox with halo ce home back when it was released and i hate what 343 did with the story so far
the terminals in bungie games foretold a promosing future but it never came to fruition. instead we got agent locke chasing master chief the game and incredibly boring enemies (prometheans) in design and combat.
what sets old bungie and 343 apart is writing,pacing and level design.
missions like assault on the control room, two betrayals or silent cartographer are godlike and will always be fun to playthrough
the terminals in bungie games foretold a promosing future but it never came to fruition. instead we got agent locke chasing master chief the game and incredibly boring enemies (prometheans) in design and combat.
what sets old bungie and 343 apart is writing,pacing and level design.
missions like assault on the control room, two betrayals or silent cartographer are godlike and will always be fun to playthrough
TheUnsunghero26
Member
I would say Halo 5 is definitely the best playing - in terms of mechanics and feel.
The campaign is certainly not the best designed though. I like the idea of boss fights like the Warden, and even enjoyed a few of the fights (fuck that last one though), but it is absolutely insane how many times they reused that.
The Krakken (I think that's what it was called) was a huge step back from the Scarab battles in Halo 3.
None of the levels in 5 were particularly memorable.
Hmm, you may want to reread the line you just quoted.
"The fact is Bungies games were often more important than they were good,"
I rolled my eyes so hard that I'm now actually afraid of having permanently damaged them.
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