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Xbox Scorpio Pricing Discussion

Yautja_Warrior

Yautja_Warrior

Member
While I did think it would be 399 because of the older Jaguar and Polaris tech, after hearing today that it has FreeSync 2 and HDMI 2.1 built in aswell, that made me think it might be a bit more now.

Maybe MS will drop an E3 bombshell and hit 399 but I'm starting to leaning towards 450-499 now. It sounds great for the core gamer / Xbox One owner who wants an upgrade but it might be a harder sell for the average gamer, if it is over 399 and it seems like Xbox One and PS4 will still be the main seller.
 
L

Lady Gaia

Member
Yautja_Warrior said:
While I did think it would be 399 because of the older Jaguar and Polaris tech, after hearing today that it has FreeSync 2 and HDMI 2.1 built in aswell, that made me think it might be a bit more now.
Click to expand...

We've seen plenty of confirmation that Scorpio uses HDMI 2.0a hardware. They're just enabling a protocol extension that was introduced as part of the 2.1 specification. There's development cost associated, but it should have zero impact on the per-unit manufacturing cost of the system.
 
Yautja_Warrior

Yautja_Warrior

Member
Lady Gaia said:
We've seen plenty of confirmation that Scorpio uses HDMI 2.0a hardware. They're just enabling a protocol extension that was introduced as part of the 2.1 specification. There's development cost associated, but it should have zero impact on the per-unit manufacturing cost of the system.
Click to expand...

Digital Foundry seems to think differently

FreeSync and the upcoming HDMI 2.1 implementation - that Scorpio aims to support.
Click to expand...

The way they have worded their latest article seems to be saying it will support HDMI 2.1
 
L

Lady Gaia

Member
MisterXDTV said:
They will support features from HDMI 2.1 but no way it supports the full-spec (48 GB/s). Hardware for Scorpio has been set in stone for months now...
Click to expand...

Right. The sentence quoted by the post above yours means the HMDI 2.1 implementation of a freesync-like feature, which is known as Variable Refresh Rate in what I've seen so far.

The full HDMI 2.1 spec wasn't finished until long after Scorpio hardware was set in stone, and it's not necessary for what any console can target at this point. VRR doesn't require additional bandwidth, it's just a new way of interpreting packets sent over the existing hardware.
 
P

paulogy

Member
So after this excellent Q&A with Phil, I think Scorpio is going to be $399 after all. From this interview I project:

1. They seem to realize there's a magic price console gamers want to pay

But we thought 4K TVs would get to scale in the middle of this generation. So we designed a console for 2016, and a console for 2017. We were kind of working on both plans simultaneously. And at some point, we got to -- let's just call it greenlight. For what we would do in 2016, and we sat around a table not too dissimlar from this and said, I think we need to do more than what the silicon is that's available in 2016 at a price point that a console customer would want to pay. So that's when we stopped that effort.
Click to expand...

2. They seem to be planning to take a loss on Scorpio

In terms of where the console space goes, there's some things about how the console business runs, in terms of you don't make any money on the hardware, it's making money on the games, making money on the service. So if you're in a situation where you're subsidizing the hardware, a faster refresh of the hardware really hurts you. Because obviously, any subsidy of the hardware is kind of played out over, somebody is going to buy games, they're going to subscribe to Live, they might go subscribe to Game Pass and other things. And that's how you kind of run a business around the console space.

But the point on not wanting framerate to drop when you go to the higher box, right, if the developers want to push resolution, to say to the player 'here you bought this higher-end console, let me show you higher-end resolution,' you don't want the framerate to drop. And that was something we didn't think we could deliver with the silicon that was available in 2016.
Click to expand...

3. In some ways they consider Scorpio a "2017 PS4 Pro"

Sometimes I get in trouble when I talk about Sony too much, but, the choice they made on PS4 Pro, I totally get that choice, from their perspective and what they wanted to go do. I've said it publicly and I've said it privately, I think they've built a good 2016 PS4 Pro. With the silicon that was available, they picked the parts that made sense to go and put together a console in 2016.

But the point on not wanting framerate to drop when you go to the higher box, right, if the developers want to push resolution, to say to the player 'here you bought this higher-end console, let me show you higher-end resolution,' you don't want the framerate to drop. And that was something we didn't think we could deliver with the silicon that was available in 2016.

So some of it was time, as certain things come down in price -- some of them not as quickly as we would like. And some of it was hardware capability from our silicon partners, that allowed us to go do that in 2017.
Click to expand...

And this probably was their plan all along. So bravo for them creating a greater perceived value via their reveals to date, just so they can close their E3 show with a "one more thing":

$399
 
I

III-V

Member
Lady Gaia said:
Right. The sentence quoted by the post above yours means the HMDI 2.1 implementation of a freesync-like feature, which is known as Variable Refresh Rate in what I've seen so far.

The full HDMI 2.1 spec wasn't finished until long after Scorpio hardware was set in stone, and it's not necessary for what any console can target at this point. VRR doesn't require additional bandwidth, it's just a new way of interpreting packets sent over the existing hardware.
Click to expand...

I agree. Scorpio will support some features of HDMI 2.1, but it will not be an HDMI 2.1 port. I think the earliest we would see HDMI 2.1 will be 2018. That spec has some serious legs.

In terms of price, I think that people will pay $449-499 for Scorpio. It can do well at this price.
 
Aceofspades

Aceofspades

Banned
I retract my previous statement of $450, nothing inside Scorpio suggest higher than $399..I mean Jaguar and Polaris?!

It should be $399 to increase its value perception, especially if Sony decided to slash PRO price.
 
S

Shadowhaxor

Member
Aceofspades said:
I retract my previous statement of $450, nothing inside Scorpio suggest higher than $399..I mean Jaguar and Polaris?!

It should be $399 to increase its value perception, especially if Sony decided to slash PRO price.
Click to expand...

Saying that, makes me believe you didn't read the analysis or listen to the report. Jaguar and Polaris with enhancements, not generic parts.
 
R

Ricky_R

Member
Collingwood said:
Fuck it. I'm staying firm.

I'm sticking with #team399
Click to expand...

It will be $399. No matter the target, $399 will fall under an "enthusiasts" price point since Scorpio is a mid gen upgrade and other consoles will be more affordable. Pricing it above that would put it on the undesirable aisle.

Not only that, but MS must take into account the probable reactions from competitors, the most important being a Pro price drop during Scorpio's release. MS announced Scorpio a year and a half before release, out of desperation, to improve perception. Going over $399 would be a contradiction to all their recent efforts.
 
M

Memorabilia

Member
I'm sticking with $399, especially considering the possible retail leak that just happened. No idea if this is a legit leak or just a placeholder. But, realistically, anything above $399 relegates the Scorpio to enthusiast/niche status & will basically prevent it from putting an appreciable dent in Sony's market share lead. Given that MS has done a good job at pushing the perception of Scorpio being a "high end" console, $399 had the potential to be somewhat disruptive. Scorpio will be the "Premium" option at $399 while the Xbone S is sold in $249 and $299 bundles.
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
Memorabilia said:
I'm sticking with $399, especially considering the possible retail leak that just happened. No idea if this is a legit leak or just a placeholder. But, realistically, anything above $399 relegates the Scorpio to enthusiast/niche status & will basically prevent it from putting an appreciable dent in Sony's market share lead. Scorpio will be the "Premium" option at $399 while the Xbone S is sold in $249 and $299 bundles.
Click to expand...

It won't put a dent in Sony's market share regardless of the price, and they've only ever marketed it as a enthusiast/niche product...

That said, I think it'll be 399 anyway. A case of underpromising and over delivering will do well for their mindshare, which is actually where they are hurting the most.

Ricky_R said:
It will be $399. No matter the target, $399 will fall under an "enthusiasts" price point since Scorpio is a mid gen upgrade and other consoles will be more affordable. Pricing it above that would put it on the undesirable aisle.

Not only that, but MS must take into account the probable reactions from competitors, the most important being a Pro price drop during Scorpio's release. MS announced Scorpio a year and a half before release, out of desperation, to improve perception. Going over $399 would be a contradiction to all their recent efforts.
Click to expand...

I don't think a reactionary Pro Sony is likely. They are industry leader by a long shot, and are profiting from hardware sales. There's no reason to cut into their Pro margins, when the slim is their high volume product anyway.
 
Okami Haundo

Okami Haundo

Member
This thread bump made me think we had a leak, but nope... I'm still on team $399. With the Xbox One S having a bundle at $249 right now it seems like we'll have a $200 deal for the holidays. Scorpio looks great, but not $250-$300 more than their "base" SKU great.
 
M

Memorabilia

Member
Trup1aya said:
It won't put a dent in Sony's market share regardless of the price, and they've only ever marketed it as a enthusiast/niche product...

That said, I think it'll be 399 anyway. A case of underpromising and over delivering will do well for their mindshare, which is actually where they are hurting the most.



I don't think a reactionary Pro Sony is likely. They are industry leader by a long shot, and are profiting from hardware sales. There's no reason to cut into their Pro margins, when the slim is their high volume product anyway.
Click to expand...

MS/Phil/Panello verbally positioning the Scorpio as "Premium" means exactly squat in terms of their actual sales expectations. I guarantee they want and expect Scorpio to move the needle sales-wise. They aren't coming into this hoping for niche status. As a market challenger in 2nd place, releasing Scorpio without expectations that it'll change the discussion and provide a market share boost makes zero sense. You're right about one thing... Scorpio will help mindshare. But without impactful sales it won't mean jack. The only logical goal for Scorpio is for it to become the primary Xbox SKU as quickly as possible, while the Xbone S takes on the role of cheap entry into the ecosystem. If their only intention is a bragging rights console priced beyond the $399 sweet spot, they'd be better off simply waiting until next gen and releasing another console around the same time as PS5.

I expect the PS4 Pro to be selling in $349 bundles at Xmas. That's not reactionary on Sony's part, it's just good business. The Pro isn't exactly lighting up the sales charts as it is. A price drop and/or bundle SKUs might drop even if Scorpio wasn't coming out.

Burdmayn said:
This thread bump made me think we had a leak, but nope... I'm still on team $399. With the Xbox One S having a bundle at $249 right now it seems like we'll have a $200 deal for the holidays. Scorpio looks great, but not $250-$300 more than their "base" SKU great.
Click to expand...

Well, supposedly there was a Spanish retail price leak a day or two ago that listed Scorpio at $399 Euros. An article I just found actually referenced a GAF poster talking about it. Take with large grain of salt.
 
Okami Haundo

Okami Haundo

Member
hanspampel said:
why not both?
399 entry lvl cheap sku
499 expensive (bigger HDD) launch sku


we already know it won't be cheaper than 399 and it won't be more expensive than 499
both is a given.
Click to expand...

Honestly, that's really what I'm expecting. They can copy the same approach they used for the Xbox One S. Release a "launch" SKU a few months early for $499 with a bigger hard drive. Follow it up with the "base" SKU with a game bundled in or something.
 
B

BrickArmour

Member
I think it will be $399 and I think Phil will announce on stage at E3... that it is available TODAY for purchase at your favorite retailer. I don't think they will wait for a fall release. Very little to gain there.
 
Jaguar Victory

Jaguar Victory

Member
BrickArmour said:
I think it will be $399 and I think Phil will announce on stage at E3... that it is available TODAY for purchase at your favorite retailer. I don't think they will wait for a fall release. Very little to gain there.
Click to expand...

That's a terrible idea honestly and not something you do with a high end purchase. I do hope for a September release though to coincide with Destiny 2.
 
Gamezone

Gamezone

Gold Member
According to Michael Pachter, the Scorpio is going to have a huge problem if it's priced higher than the PS4 Pro.
 
I

In Service

Member
Meh. $399 - $499...

Just don't give me any bundled Elite Controller Crap with it and I would prefer an option on launch for a big hard drive. My 2TB sitting at the back of the XBO annoys me.
 
M

mordecaii83

Member
The added 4GB RAM, larger APU, and more expensive cooling solution will push the Scorpio to $499. I'd be shocked if they priced it at $399, and if they did it would almost certainly be at a loss. I'm sure they'll throw in a larger HDD as standard and maybe something else to help justify the higher price to consumers.
 
M

m23

Member
mordecaii83 said:
The added 4GB RAM, larger APU, and more expensive cooling solution will push the Scorpio to $499. I'd be shocked if they priced it at $399, and if they did it would almost certainly be at a loss. I'm sure they'll throw in a larger HDD as standard and maybe something else to help justify the higher price to consumers.
Click to expand...

We know the HDD will be 1tb.
 
Q

Quasar

Member
Burdmayn said:
Honestly, that's really what I'm expecting. They can copy the same approach they used for the Xbox One S. Release a "launch" SKU a few months early for $499 with a bigger hard drive. Follow it up with the "base" SKU with a game bundled in or something.
Click to expand...

I figured for sure there would be a bundle that had a Elite controller.
 
BeforeU

BeforeU

Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
Gamezone said:
According to Michael Pachter, the Scorpio is going to have a huge problem if it's priced higher than the PS4 Pro.
Click to expand...

And he is not wrong. Coming out with a stronger system a year after Pro is a given. It should cost the same.
 
A

Andy Vee

Neo Member
Looking at the recent Microsoft pricing for premium devices. Surface studio £££££££, surface laptop ££££, surface pro £££££. I have a feeling.. the case will be honed from a single piece of metal, it will have design flair to put it above consoles. It will be £599 UK if not more.
Also November 17th release to get the turkey day sales and mitigate the black Friday ps pro price drop.
 
BeforeU

BeforeU

Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
Andy Vee said:
Looking at the recent Microsoft pricing for premium devices. Surface studio £££££££, surface laptop ££££, surface pro £££££. I have a feeling.. the case will be honed from a single piece of metal, it will have design flair to put it above consoles. It will be £599 UK if not more.
Also November 17th release to get the turkey day sales and mitigate the black Friday ps pro price drop.
Click to expand...

Completely different devices marketed towards different audience. They dont expect to sell Surface in giant volume, they want their OEM to sell more and make profit so they continue to supposrt Windows. Xbox is completely different story.
 
Okami Haundo

Okami Haundo

Member
Quasar said:
I figured for sure there would be a bundle that had a Elite controller.
Click to expand...

I'm torn on that one. Adding the Elite controller (possibly with a slight redesign) would be a great way to add value to a launch bundle. The only thing that's keeping me from being 100% on that idea is that they already bundled that controller once.
 
I

IncognitoPanda

Member
Andy Vee said:
Looking at the recent Microsoft pricing for premium devices. Surface studio £££££££, surface laptop ££££, surface pro £££££. I have a feeling.. the case will be honed from a single piece of metal, it will have design flair to put it above consoles. It will be £599 UK if not more.
Also November 17th release to get the turkey day sales and mitigate the black Friday ps pro price drop.
Click to expand...

While true, a console still needs to sell. The surface book is stated to exist to show that MS can be innovative with windows and that they have a product line they can be proud of. The goal is to develop a satisfied community and develop a strong brand, rather than sell as much as possible from the get go. They want brand recognition.

I'm not sure the Xbox division can afford that. 499, sure, but I think 599 will rustle too many feathers in tve community, and even with the same approach as the Surface, this seems detrimental to their goal of cultivating a strong brand.

Time will tell, but I think 599 for non-zen, non-vega (a 4k machine, basically) will be detrimental to them. Ps4Pro gets nearly 4k with a slew of games for 399, possibly with a price drop once Scorpio comes out.

Do you think people are willing to shell out 200-250 more bucks to upgrade from checkerboard to native 4k? (Not that I think all Scorpio games will be native 4k)
 
S

specdot

Member
It's gonna be FIVE HUNDRED AND NINETY NINE US DOLLARS.
It's totally gonna be $399. No way MS goes over that price point.
 
I

Izuna

Banned
I'm at the point now (since getting a 1070 rig) where the Scorpio would have to be very competitively priced for me to get one.

Like, PS4 Pro is already pointless.
 
Theonik

Theonik

Member
Izuna said:
I'm at the point now (since getting a 1070 rig) where the Scorpio would have to be very competitively priced for me to get one.

Like, PS4 Pro is already pointless.
Click to expand...
This has always been a weird assessment.
In the first place for people who have PC as an option consoles are for exclusives. When I can get The Last of Us Pt 2 on my PC then I will stop caring about consoles.
 
T

Taliban Stan

Member
$500+ would be a weird price considering they've happily said that this is not next-gen hardware, this is not a next gen system, all it does is play XB1 games like every other XB1.

Imo $500 is like it's a new era type of thing. They've said over and over that Scorpio isn't that. Given that, it seems like a toy for rich people. Like the person who buys vintage Chanel gloves for like $10,000 when they sell modern Chanel gloves for $300 and you can go to the mall and get a decent pair of non-Chanel gloves for $20.
 
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