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Ultima 7's weird camera (also does the game hold up?)

PittaGAF

PittaGAF

Member
No Ultima thread will be complete without the lyric version of Stones.

https://youtu.be/zSZoRm-4mVM

Don't be scared at all by the combat.
Soon enough you will be so powerful it will be a non issue, you will just enjoy the incredible story and immersive world.
Just wandering around in an experience on its own.

If you like Black Gate be sure to get Serpent Isle as well.
 
S

StromboliProtocol

Banned
toddhunter said:
Ultima 6 fun fact. The prostitutes respond to a surprisingly diverse range of words.

I love Ultima.
Click to expand...

Oh yes. They do. I was 12. Learning English. And I had to practice. Those prostitutes were a god send. 😁

You also can actually kill every single living creature in the world expect Lord British - and you of course. Seriously what game today would allow this? You were pretty fucked up in a way because there were no way to get the right ending - but think about it, you literally restore peace in the world by doing this, which is exactly the purpose of the game.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
Lister said:
I got way more into the Ultima underworld games.

How do those stack up in your opinion guys?
Click to expand...

UU1 is one of those games which is best experienced from a historical perspective. You wouldn't seriously play it. UU2 was much more fun to play, but it also felt kind of unfinished or at least was missing that certain "something". I'm honestly not a huge fan of either but can appreciate their importance.

There is just nothing to the level of:

the_best_game_ever_thu2bks.gif


StromboliProtocol said:
Oh yes. They do. I was 12. Learning English. And I had to practice. Those prostitutes were a god send. ��

You also can actually kill every single living creature in the world expect Lord British - and you of course. Seriously what game today would allow this? You were pretty fucked up in a way because there were no way to get the right ending - but think about it, you literally restore peace in the world by doing this, which is exactly the purpose of the game.
Click to expand...

Which reminded me of this:
openworldgamingr8q85.png
Click to expand...
 
A

aravuus

Member
Anoxida said:
Damn boys you made me thirsty. I bought it from gog last night and have installed exult and played around with it a little bit. Still not sure what all the options do. Will read up on the readme later today unless there's a good Youtube video about exult? Will also follow that guys recommendation abput getting the magic carpet and strong magic asap because I accidently attacked a guard and I could tell the combat is pretty bad.
Click to expand...

What folder did you pick for the second part (Serpent something) during Exult's installation? I install GOG's U7 and all I get is a U7 folder, nothing even resembling Black gate or Serpent-something.
 
S

Spacecowboy77

Member
Ultima 7 is the game that really got me into RPGs. Endless hours on this one and Serpent Isles, I was super obsessed with it.

Not sure it holds up as the UI is challenging but man.. Good times..
 
S

StoppedInTracks

Member
The shitposting of Ultima 8 and 9 really should stay in 2000's.

The games were quite ok. Of course not on the level of Ultima 7 but then what else is?

What I remember from Ultima 8:

- the amazing Intro
- the amazing game box
- the execution on the pier
- the heavy, dreary music
- the heavy, dark atmosphere thorought he whole game
- the 4 bosses based on the 4 elements:
- Lithos - he was living in the deepest part of the Catacombs IIRC, he was basically Nito pre-Nito
- Hydros - a formless, water-based hydra
- Pyros (?)
- Aeros (?)
- some jumping on mushrooms
- some jumping on rocks
- lots and lots of dying during the jumping

What I remember from Ultima 9

- hardware requirements, Jesus...
- shitty love story between the Avatar and Raven (?)
- incredible graphics... really, amazing at the time. The Crysis of its era.
- the 8 (?) dungeons under the 8 Red Pillars called like the 8 Anti-virtues: Greed, Deceit etc. Quite good dungeons too! Full of puzzles.
- incredibly good looking 3D Buccaneer's Den and Skara Brae
- "Rise from your Slumber, Avatar!" in the tutorial part (which I replied ~50 times checking the performance of differenc CPU/ GPU/ RAM configurations)

Good times... lots of nostalgia nowadays for old Ultima games. I wish Ultima 10 had been made - the series deserved a proper closure.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
StoppedInTracks said:
- some jumping on mushrooms
- some jumping on rocks
Click to expand...

It might only be two of your bullet points, but this is like 95% of the game.

What I remember from Ultima 9

StoppedInTracks said:
- incredibly good looking 3D Buccaneer's Den
Click to expand...

The game was insultingly bad and shat all over everything that was good about the series. HOWEVER, sailing into a full 3D buccaneer's Den for the first time is legitimately one of the great moments in gaming for me.
 
D

Dreamwriter

Member
If anyone wants to go back and try Ultima 3, don't forget it was released on NES as Ultima Exodus. That version will probably have the best graphics and music. They also released Ultima 4 on NES but I never played it so don't know how good it was.

ronaldthump said:
I want a sequel to the Ultima game. I don't even know who has the license but if someone could bring it back; a proper game set in britannia. I'll kick start it for like a thousand bucks.
Click to expand...
HashtagLapsed said:
Shroud of the Avatar sounded promising but I have no idea what Lord British is doing now. The last I saw it turned into a full MMO and he was funding it through selling virtual property or.. something.
Click to expand...
Shroud of the Avatar: Forsaken Virtues is attempting to be both a sandbox MMO and a single-player Ultima game. I played a bit of the early story, it really does have that classic Ultima feeling. I'd recommend trying it out once they finish it up - they are working on the final story bits right now with the goal to have them complete end of July, so I'd guess the game will probably be done this fall or winter. The game is in free trial mode right now until the end of May, but it forces you onto one specific story path and your progress won't be saved so you may want to just wait.
 
S

StromboliProtocol

Banned
toddhunter said:
Which reminded me of this:
Click to expand...

Yeah. I will never understand the need for unkillable/context-based NPCs. If a NPC is supposed to give you a hint or an object for the main quest, why would killing him prevent the main quest from being completed? The hint he would give you is just...hint, and the object should still be in his pocket or in a chest in his house or whatever. Ultima did that. You could kill a NPC and not have the hint (only making the game more difficult) and NPC's possessions where real object that you could interact with - and retrieve from their body for instance.
 
S

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
StoppedInTracks said:
The shitposting of Ultima 8 and 9 really should stay in 2000's.

The games were quite ok. Of course not on the level of Ultima 7 but then what else is?

What I remember from Ultima 8:

- the amazing Intro
- the amazing game box
- the execution on the pier
- the heavy, dreary music
- the heavy, dark atmosphere thorought he whole game
- the 4 bosses based on the 4 elements:
- Lithos - he was living in the deepest part of the Catacombs IIRC, he was basically Nito pre-Nito
- Hydros - a formless, water-based hydra
- Pyros (?)
- Aeros (?)
- some jumping on mushrooms
- some jumping on rocks
- lots and lots of dying during the jumping

What I remember from Ultima 9

- hardware requirements, Jesus...
- shitty love story between the Avatar and Raven (?)
- incredible graphics... really, amazing at the time. The Crysis of its era.
- the 8 (?) dungeons under the 8 Red Pillars called like the 8 Anti-virtues: Greed, Deceit etc. Quite good dungeons too! Full of puzzles.
- incredibly good looking 3D Buccaneer's Den and Skara Brae
- "Rise from your Slumber, Avatar!" in the tutorial part (which I replied ~50 times checking the performance of differenc CPU/ GPU/ RAM configurations)

Good times... lots of nostalgia nowadays for old Ultima games. I wish Ultima 10 had been made - the series deserved a proper closure.
Click to expand...

What's a paladin?
 
E

EatinOlives

Member
I played it up until shortly after leaving the Britannia castle, encountered some enemies and got my face destroyed because the game never bothered to tell me how to even enable combat mode. Ended up not coming back to the game thereafter.

I should get back into it. I really dug how I had to actually write down my quest log to keep track of where I needed to go.
 
A

Aeana

Member
StoppedInTracks said:
The shitposting of Ultima 8 and 9 really should stay in 2000's.

The games were quite ok. Of course not on the level of Ultima 7 but then what else is?

What I remember from Ultima 8:

- the amazing Intro
- the amazing game box
- the execution on the pier
- the heavy, dreary music
- the heavy, dark atmosphere thorought he whole game
- the 4 bosses based on the 4 elements:
- Lithos - he was living in the deepest part of the Catacombs IIRC, he was basically Nito pre-Nito
- Hydros - a formless, water-based hydra
- Pyros (?)
- Aeros (?)
- some jumping on mushrooms
- some jumping on rocks
- lots and lots of dying during the jumping

What I remember from Ultima 9

- hardware requirements, Jesus...
- shitty love story between the Avatar and Raven (?)
- incredible graphics... really, amazing at the time. The Crysis of its era.
- the 8 (?) dungeons under the 8 Red Pillars called like the 8 Anti-virtues: Greed, Deceit etc. Quite good dungeons too! Full of puzzles.
- incredibly good looking 3D Buccaneer's Den and Skara Brae
- "Rise from your Slumber, Avatar!" in the tutorial part (which I replied ~50 times checking the performance of differenc CPU/ GPU/ RAM configurations)

Good times... lots of nostalgia nowadays for old Ultima games. I wish Ultima 10 had been made - the series deserved a proper closure.
Click to expand...
What I remember from Ultima 9:

My desktop wallpaper, because that's where you end up when the game crashes.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
Aeana said:
What I remember from Ultima 9:

My desktop wallpaper, because that's where you end up when the game crashes.
Click to expand...

I remember a fish using an elevator in one of the dungeons, meaning it was impossible for me to progress. I didn't realise this and saved before realising I was completely screwed.

I could have gone back to a previous save several hours before but it broke me. I chose wisely to bail out.
 
1

1upsuper

Member
mclem said:
Of the Ultima series, while I've owned them all, I've only actually finished I, IV and VIII (well, and UW2). I think I's actually a great game, as long as you're okay with how primitive it is in many ways, and the fact that it got an EGA remake makes it a lot more palatable than the CGA II and III. It's fun to see so many ideas, before the model of 'how these games should work' was solidified.

II is a mess. An interesting mess, to be fair, but still an almighty mess. So much of the game is actually irrelevant.

III, I've not got into, but it's a much more coherent game than II is, so there's that going for it.

(There was a great 1-6 bundle available in the early days of CD-ROM which set me in good stead. All the documentation, too, although the maps were on cardboard not cloth)
Click to expand...

Thank you! I really appreciate it. I think I'll probably check out that remake of 1 now actually.

With regards to II, hearing that a lot of the game is irrelevant kinda reminds me of Wizardry 1 where half the floors are just red herrings. <_<
 
W

Weevilone

Member
I really loved the games and played through 7. I even played the Savage Empire and Martian Dreams spin-offs.

I might give Martian Dreams another go one of these days. I think I got it in a GoG deal at one time.
 
S

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
Weevilone said:
I really loved the games and played through 7. I even played the Savage Empire and Martian Dreams spin-offs.

I might give Martian Dreams another go one of these days. I think I got it in a GoG deal at one time.
Click to expand...

Nothing like having Sigmund Freud in your party gunning down giant martian insects with an M50 machine gun.

That game was so nuts. I love it.
 
Philtastic

Philtastic

Member
When I was a kid, I really loved Ultima VII and its expansion. Such a fully fleshed out world with interesting characters and stories around every corner.

Trying to replay it today, I'd say that it sort of holds up. The world and stories are still amazing but the main weakness of the game is its combat (as mentioned by others). You only directly control your main character while your huge party of like 7 others is AI controlled in a fashion that is actually worse than Dragon Age where they mostly just charge into the fray while your ranged characters constantly friendly fire your own party. The worst part is that your party members might chase after fleeing enemies or those off screen or start fleeing themselves and either get killed by other groups of enemies that they run into or die from traps and you'll have no idea where their bodies are to either salvage their equipment or attempt to carry their bodies to healers for resurrections.

So I have mixed feelings about the game these days much like with other old classics, such as Morrowind where combat mostly boils down to repeatedly clicking your mouse while you explore an extremely rich world. It'll come down to whether engaging stories can be the sole driver for you to slog through frustrating gameplay.
 
1

1upsuper

Member
Are there any good books that cover the Ultima series (and Wizardry, M&M, etc.)? I found a book called Desktop & Dungeons that has mixed reviews but seems comprehensive. I absolutely love reading about old CRPGs.
 
L

Lemming_JRS

Member
1upsuper said:
Are there any good books that cover the Ultima series (and Wizardry, M&M, etc.)? I found a book called Desktop & Dungeons that has mixed reviews but seems comprehensive. I absolutely love reading about old CRPGs.
Click to expand...

How about The Official Book of Ultima? :) It covers the production of Ultima I-VI. Link to PDF riiiiight here:
https://archive.org/stream/TheOfficialBookOfUltima/The-Official-Book-of-Ultima#page/n0/mode/2up
YGXSrwA.png



For a comprehensive survey of old adventures and CRPGs, this site is phenomenal: http://www.filfre.net/sitemap/

Here's his post on Ultima V: http://www.filfre.net/2016/02/ultima-v/
 
Spladam

Spladam

Member
Ok, glad we made an Ultima VII thread, maybe you guys can help me out.

I purchased Ultima VII at GOG last week, I have not played it since the 90's and had some questions for those of you in the know:
I remember the interface (inventory) to be a mess, has there been any mods that fix this or improve this?

I kept up with the Exult project for a while, but last I recall it had some game breaking bugs, I just did a search and it seems (not sure) that v1.4 might still have some. Is it worth the risk to play it with Exult now?

Also, I found a key ring mod for Black Gate using Exult, (scroll down the page 5 post) if More_Badass or anybody else thinking of playing it are interested, iirc they fixed the "find a key" issue in Serpent Isles.

I really want to go back and play it, I'm going to look around a bit more for some good mods (there has to be an inventory mod by now), let me know if you guys have found anything.

-Edit: Wow, the current bug list looks menacing. The documentation also states there are many sound bugs. Don't know if Exult is worth it.
CHC said:
I'm not an art student, but the reason it's so distressing is because the vertical lines are rotated 45 degrees and the horizontals are perpendicular to the screen. In something like Baldur's Gate (or any other isomeric game) everything is built around the vertical lines being parallel with gravity.

There's actually a mod (not sure if it was ever finished) that rotates the screen 45 degrees and it actually makes it look relatively normal (no vector pun intended).
Click to expand...
From what I read he could never get the mouse to align properly.
DavionStriker said:
If you played Serpent Isle or Black Gate, you had to deal with screens like this:

u7pc13.jpg


Boot disks. Man, kids today have it easy.
Click to expand...
Right...?
 
NiiloPielinen

NiiloPielinen

Member
I don't remember inventory management being that bad, though I had smaller pouches in backpack to separate items. One for keys, one for ingredients etc. I do remember Dupre being strong enough to use a wooden crate instead of backpack as a container which could hold much more items.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
Inventory management is fine except for keys. The keyring fixes this and I think comes with Serpent Isle. Also exult has it by default. Once you have that you are good to go.
 
M

mclem

Member
DavionStriker said:
lol I randomly grabbed a config.sys file image off Google. I had different disks for Serpent Isle and Wing Commander. Ah Origin... how I miss thee.
Click to expand...

When DOS 6.22 introduced the multiboot selection screen, I had a field day; I had a boot disk with something like eight different configurations available.
 
A

AmethystEnd

Member
I agree Ultima 9 is hot garbage, but you guys fucking hurt me with all this trash talking of 8. Yes, jumping across stones in water was painful, and yes, a lot of stuff that would've made it better got cut, but I still love that game.

Both 7 games are better, but I love 8, too.
 
T

Turin Turambar

Member
I remember Ultima VII being great because this:

-great sense of place
-Ambitious, big game for its time
-unique characters and quests everywhere
-living, breathing world (npc routes, weather, day/night cycle)
-Great interactivity and spell system.

In a way games like The Witcher 3 are the successor to it (4 of my five points) although the tone is clearly different, that maybe it's the big difference: while Ultima VII had some dark parts (from drug abuse to ritual assassination and sinister brotherhoods), the world itself emitted a more optimistic, cheery vibe.
 
R

Renekton

Member
Turin Turambar said:
I remember Ultima VII being great because this:

-great sense of place
-Ambitious, big game for its time
-unique characters and quests everywhere
-living, breathing world (npc routes, weather, day/night cycle)
-Great interactivity and spell system.

In a way games like The Witcher 3 are the successor to it (4 of my five points) although the tone is clearly different, that maybe it's the big difference: while Ultima VII had some dark parts (from drug abuse to ritual assassination and sinister brotherhoods), the world itself emitted a more optimistic, cheery vibe.
Click to expand...
Other than scale I think Witcher 3 is very different game from Ultima.
 
M

mclem

Member
1upsuper said:
With regards to II, hearing that a lot of the game is irrelevant kinda reminds me of Wizardry 1 where half the floors are just red herrings. <_<
Click to expand...

It doesn't really feel like a 'red herring' situation as much as it does "We've only made enough Main Quest to fill a fraction of the world we've designed"

To quote from an RPGCodex Let's Play, with some spoilering for plot points you might not know (in particular in the context of something about Ultima 1 that might surprise you)

Ultima II ranks up there with Ultima IX on wasted potential. The scope of this game is absolutely massive. Not only is there the standard fantasy fare, but there is so much more.
The space travel has been expanded from a mini-game in the first game to a full-blown way to explore several additional planets. Instead of time traveling for one fight, Ultima II allows the player to explore five different periods of Earth's history: the Time of Legends (Minax's abode), Pangaea (9 million B.C.), 1423 B.C., 1990 A.D., and a post-apocalyptic 2112 A.D. (If you thought Wasteland was the first post-apocalyptic RPG, you were wrong.)

The problem is that most of the potential was vastly underutilized and comes across as filler. You can explore ten
planets in the solar system,
but only
Earth
and
Planet X
are necessary to visit. One town,
New San Antonio
, has both of the required plot items, the only method for raising attributes, and one of the required
vehicles
. Most of the towns contain little more than in-jokes. There are several dungeons, but there is no need to visit ANY of them. Since spells can only be used in dungeons, this makes spells (and spellcasters and spellcasting attributes) useless as well. Furthermore, >95% of the game time is spent grinding for gold and (randomly-dropped) items.
Click to expand...
 
R

ronaldthump

Member
I watched the video retrospective of 8 and I remember the bitter disappointment I experienced playing it. Now on to 9. Yikes. I don't even think it was playable on my rig at the time.

:/
 
M

Mejilan

Running off of Custom Firmware
Man, I really wish I had a good way to replay Ultimas 3-7 in portable fashion. I could totally go for a marathon of the core elements of the franchise.
 
Feeroper

Feeroper

Member
Oh man I haven't played Ultima 7, or any of the Ultima games for that matter, in a very long time. I loved this series and 7 was one of my favorites for sure.

I bought them on GOG but haven't installed yet to go down memory lane - seeing this thread makes me want to.

These were true glory days of cRPGs, and I would love for some kind of revival of this style. I was hoping that would be Shroud of the Avatar, but I don't even know whats going on with that one anymore.

Its a shame Ultima is sitting with EA, as this series would be great to receive a loving collection released, clean it up a bit and present it with a whole bunch of extras like retrospective from current day industry vets who were influenced by this series, or even a documentary of the impact it had.
 
Lister

Lister

Banned
Hey wasn't there supposed to be a new Ultima coming out from one of the the original devs?

I remember a kickstarter a looong time ago... Was I dreaming?
 
U

uncredited male

Member
I liked how you could destroy junk items in Pagan by throwing them in the water.

Ultima IX released too early or too late.

EDIT - You could cheese the copy protection in U7 by using the in game map and sextant. Or so I heard.
 
S

StoppedInTracks

Member
AmethystEnd said:
I agree Ultima 9 is hot garbage, but you guys fucking hurt me with all this trash talking of 8. Yes, jumping across stones in water was painful, and yes, a lot of stuff that would've made it better got cut, but I still love that game.

Both 7 games are better, but I love 8, too.
Click to expand...

Yeah I loved Ultima 8 as well. It was the time before internet for me so I didn't know about *ANY* backlash and played this game only based on some paper mags reviews and guides. It was fantastic. The graphics were such a step up from Black Gate.

Ultima 9... *is* garbage but still it is the last Ultima game ever made so it holds a special place in my heart. I remember I spend about $500 on upgrading my PC just to play it and I was poor as fuck back then... it was all my savings from the last 4 years. Crazy times.

I mean I just remembered that not only Ultima 9 was garbage from the story point but it was GARBAGE when it comes to bugs and technical issues. It was like Mass Effect 4 on release! People were modding and patching it faster than Origin, lol.

SAD!

Might and Magic 10 has been released after like 10 years and was a great game... why can't EA release Ultima 10 ?!?
 
S

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
StoppedInTracks said:
Yeah I loved Ultima 8 as well. It was the time before internet for me so I didn't know about *ANY* backlash and played this game only based on some paper mags reviews and guides. It was fantastic. The graphics were such a step up from Black Gate.
Click to expand...

There is no metric under which you could describe Ultima 8 as "fantastic". It would be my most hated game of all time if Ultima 9 didn't exist.

giphy.gif


Fuck everything about this game. Everything.
 
Spladam

Spladam

Member
Lister said:
Hey wasn't there supposed to be a new Ultima coming out from one of the the original devs?

I remember a kickstarter a looong time ago... Was I dreaming?
Click to expand...

FrontalMonk said:
Nope. It's called Shroud of the Avatar: Forsaken Virtues.
Click to expand...

Hahaha, the bottom tier pledge reads this:
Thank Lord British and prove your virtue with a $10 donation. If you ever pirated an Ultima game or used an exploit to grief other players in Ultima Online, here's your chance to repent! For your $10 donation you will receive a clear conscience and Lord British's undying gratitude.
Click to expand...

I owe then $10 for that pirated Ultima 3 I had.... but damn, they've raised $1.9 million of a $1 million goal.
Shroud of the Avatar

Freaking Tracy Hickman from the Dragonlance series wrote for the game. I have to try it now.

-Edit: Wow, the reviews are NOT good.
 
F

flyover

Member
Mejilan said:
Man, I really wish I had a good way to replay Ultimas 3-7 in portable fashion. I could totally go for a marathon of the core elements of the franchise.
Click to expand...

Same. Especially IV and V, which I still think hold up the best, for me. I might still recommend those to someone starting out, even over VII. IV is so great--well, until you're required to assemble a full party of seven people by the end, and the combat slows to a crawl. (There was a mobile version of IV, but it was so cumbersome as to be pretty much unplayable.)

There's also an Ultima-ish mobile game called Lowlander that really ticked all the II-V nostalgia boxes for me. It's really well-crafted. Takes about 8-12 hours to play.
 
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