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[More_Badass]

Thinking of maybe checking out the Ultima games, and 7 seems to be considered the best. But was looking at the screenshots on GOG, and the camera and perspective seems really weird. Like it's almost isometric/overhead, but the angle of the cam is almost too tilted, like I subconsciously want to tilt my head to line up properly with the angle. Anyone else feel this way, or are people just used to it?

Also was curious if the game holds up, or would it be like jumping into the deep end of old school RPGs? Not sure if this is a good benchmark, but I've tried to get into Dwarf Fortress but that game's interface is like a brick wall, and I really loved Planetscape Torment's lack of handholding and exploration

 

[1upsuper]

Ultima VII is largely considered the pinnacle of WRPGs. It's a must-play. Yeah, the POV is strange. It's like it's almost directly overhead, but not quite, and it takes some getting used to. If you're interested in Ultima, I'd suggest at least playing IV and VII.

Also, VII definitely isn't "the deep end of old school RPGs" IMO. It's more like the beginning of what would end up being the age of the point and click WRPGs. If you want the deep end, check out Wizardry 1 or Might & Magic 1. Or if you want the deepest end, check out Oubliette and dnd from the old PLATO server.

 

[Renekton]

The camera is not an issue, just remember to install Exult.

The slippery combat, constant feeding and messy inventory are the real issues, also some of the quests have Sierra logic. If you think Planescape is great for not holding your hand, hoo boy.

Upfront bias admission: my favorite UItima is V.

Edit2: forgot to answer title question. The Ultimas have a lot of esoteric or period-specific designs that will frustrate CRPGers born in the BG era and after. Hunger, inventory management, mixing reagants (not in 7), getting lost in the open-world, monsters that destroy you if you wander the wrong way, obtuse puzzles with permanent fail states etc

 

[tengiants]

Yeah it's always hurt my head since I first played it as a kid. Everything is isometric except the floor/ceiling surfaces, giving it a twisted appearance.

I miss this game and the perspective now that I see these screenshots. I never finished it because it was too big for me then but I remember fumbling around my way around the game alright. I think I might try this out again.

 

[Shearie]

I used to play this game when I was really little when it came out and had no idea what I was doing and would just wander around the world aimlessly. When I was this young, lots of things in video games scared me. I remember being freaked out immediately by the mutilated dead body at the very beginning of the game and being terrified anytime a strong enemy would attack me. I should try playing this game again sometime to see what it's like playing it as an adult.

 

[unapersson]

The camera is not an issue, just remember to install Exult.

One of my all time favorites. There is one issue with Exult if I remember correctly, I don't know if it's by default but it can show more of the screen than the original so shows some off screen spoilers you shouldn't have been able to see.

Before Exult it was quite hard to get running, I remember spending ages in DOS creating a boot entry with the right memory configuration.

 

[ronaldthump]

loved the game. loved black gate and serpent isle. inventory is a nightmare but nothing like going to the mountains and killing dragons for gems.

I can't think of any modern day WRPG that I feel the same way about re: Ultima or plays the same way given the lore; you gotta know Iolo/Dupre/Katrina etc. The cast and the world = amazing - because of the continuity of world

 

[AlteredBeast]

Before Exult it was quite hard to get running, I remember spending ages in DOS creating a boot entry with the right memory configuration.

Damn do I ever remember this shit. Nothing more frustrating than the computer constantly telling you your memory is fucked.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Ultima VII is one of the greatest RPGs ever.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Would be cool if an art student could come ITT and tell us what kind of perspective this is and why it's so freaky. It's like a diorama casting a 10 o'clock shadow, and then everything starts tilting that direction. What is it? Acid?

 

[Renekton]

Animlboogy is right, I also see U7 as a genre transition point like KOTOR or a last gasp.

The deep-end reference point is normally somewhere in the middle rather than the final evolutionary in the series, partly because the latter starts adopting modern principles to innovate or keep up. When Might and Magic X aimed to evoke the best memory of the series, they went with Terra/Xeen instead of later designs.

 

[Arulan]

Would be cool if an art student could come ITT and tell us what kind of perspective this is and why it's so freaky. It's like a diorama casting a 10 o'clock shadow, and then everything starts tilting that direction. What is it? Acid?

I'm not an art student, but I'm pretty sure it's doing a type oblique projection.

SimCity does something similar, but at a different angle.

 

[Herr Schwarz]

Play ultima online it holds up good

 

[Sinatar]

Thinking of maybe checking out the Ultima games, and 7 seems to be considered the best. But was looking at the screenshots on GOG, and the camera and perspective seems really weird. Like it's almost isometric/overhead, but the angle of the cam is almost too tilted, like I subconsciously want to tilt my head to line up properly with the angle. Anyone else feel this way, or are people just used to it?


Also was curious if the game holds up, or would it be like jumping into the deep end of old school RPGs? Not sure if this is a good benchmark, but I've tried to get into Dwarf Fortress but that game's interface is like a brick wall, and I really loved Planetscape Torment's lack of handholding and exploration

Ultima VII is a masterclass in world design, but I'm not sure how well it holds up. For all it gets right, it really really really drops the ball with the combat, and there is a lot of combat.

It's real time with pause, except you only control your character. There is also no collision for your party members or the enemies, so literally every battle every character charges into the same tile on the screen and you just have this nonsensical ball of people with weapons flailing around rendering it impossible to actually tell WTF is going on.

Put simply, every fight is this:

Honestly if you want to play some old school Ultima I'd recommend 4, 5 and 6. The 2 side stories (Savage Empire and Martian Dreams) are also good.

 

[StoppedInTracks]

Ultima 7 is a fantastic RPG that holds up today pretty well. It is a must play game for every true RPG fan IMO.

As for the perspective - I recognize you are the "indie mod" of GAF - so just treat the perspective as Hotline Miami one? It does not differ much.

The game is truly open world IIRC so you might get your ass kicked if you wander into bad places... a fair warning.

 

[ronaldthump]

I want a sequel to the Ultima game. I don't even know who has the license but if someone could bring it back; a proper game set in britannia. I'll kick start it for like a thousand bucks.

 

[Chev]

Would be cool if an art student could come ITT and tell us what kind of perspective this is and why it's so freaky.

From wikipedia's atricle on isometric projection in videogames, here's a handy primer. Ultima's is cavalier, just not using the same grid plane as the illustration.

Worth noting, or reiterating, that no 2d game and few 3d games actually use isometric projection. They use dimetric projection or perspective projection with an angle that makes it look similar to isometric.

I want a sequel to the Ultima game. I don't even know who has the license but if someone could bring it back; a proper game set in britannia. I'll kick start it for like a thousand bucks.

EA has the license, and they killed it, then killed its corpse by means of a terrible mobile game.

 

[HashtagLapsed]

Shroud of the Avatar sounded promising but I have no idea what Lord British is doing now. The last I saw it turned into a full MMO and he was funding it through selling virtual property or.. something.

 

[Syril]

Yeah I always thought that perspective was weird. Ultima 6 used it too though.

And so did Faery Tale Adventure back in 1986.

I think it was probably just an early attempt at making the graphics look more three-dimensional.

 

[Mechanized]

I could never deal with the camera perspective. It just looks so unnatural and weird. I almost get vertigo from looking at the game.

 

[Chev]

It was likely chosen because, unlike isometric/dimetric, it's trivial to do with a tile engine, there's no need for code alterations, it's all visual so it was a natural fit for U6. U7 did away with tiles but it wouldn't be until U8 that they adopted dimetric projection.

 

[Shifty]

I'd look for a diamond-shaped monitor on eBay and then rotate the game 45 degrees if I were you OP.

 

[Felspawn]

Thinking of maybe checking out the Ultima games, and 7 seems to be considered the best. But was looking at the screenshots on GOG, and the camera and perspective seems really weird. Like it's almost isometric/overhead, but the angle of the cam is almost too tilted, like I subconsciously want to tilt my head to line up properly with the angle. Anyone else feel this way, or are people just used to it?


Also was curious if the game holds up, or would it be like jumping into the deep end of old school RPGs? Not sure if this is a good benchmark, but I've tried to get into Dwarf Fortress but that game's interface is like a brick wall, and I really loved Planetscape Torment's lack of handholding and exploration

Ultima 7 was the very first game I had on my first PC. It has a special place in my heart and a large part of me being a PC gamer. It's a game that still holds up

 

[TheContact]

Yes it does. Also check out Spoony's ultima retrospective. Here's part 7

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mRb36-uMrc&list=PLpaNqz1vDmSixriNnNTD3FKXJ5D_y9wKS&index=8

 

[MoogleMan]

Thinking of maybe checking out the Ultima games, and 7 seems to be considered the best.

I thought the same, but the ultima games have not aged very well.

 

[ElGoldur]

This is one of my favourite games. Well, last time I played was 15 years ago or so. So, not sure how good/bad it aged.

I had no problem with the perspective.

The game doesn't hold your hand but I loved it at the time. You really feel that you are on an adventure.
You should read the manual and also take a look at the map. It will help you enjoying the game ... if you get used to the perspective.

 

[Lord Panda]

Ultima VII is still one of my favourite games.

The music, the graphics, the emergence, the NPC scheduling, the day and night cycles and dynamic weather, the vast open world, and the story made a huge impact on me when I loaded it up for the first time decades ago.

The oblique perspective throws some people off but it never fazed me. Really loved how everything interacted with each other, how the whole open world streamed seamlessly from interior to exterior environments, all the little Easter eggs, and the unabashed and unapologetic paradoxically simplistic and complicated nature of the game.

As someone mentioned, the combat was janky as hell and it was essentially akin to letting mad dogs off their leashes and hope for the best kind of affair. The game was also surprisingly gory, blood and guts galore, murdered pets, dead children and babies ... Ultima VII went all in.

I feel that U7 doesn't get enough credit particularly when modern games still can't quite nail the immersion and emergence that Ultima VII nailed effortlessly.

 

[PittaGAF]

Ultima 7 Is imho still the best RPG ever.

The lively world is still unparalleled nowadays.
I spent hours and hours just following people around doing their jobs, making bread, forging swords, etc...etc...

Even just the first tutorial investigation quest in Trinsic is better than the vast majority of quests of more modern games imho.

Say hello to Batlin.

 

[Phediuk]

7 was a step back from 6 imo but still good.

 

[CHC]

Would be cool if an art student could come ITT and tell us what kind of perspective this is and why it's so freaky. It's like a diorama casting a 10 o'clock shadow, and then everything starts tilting that direction. What is it? Acid?

I'm not an art student, but the reason it's so distressing is because the vertical lines are rotated 45 degrees and the horizontals are perpendicular to the screen. In something like Baldur's Gate (or any other isomeric game) everything is built around the vertical lines being parallel with gravity.

There's actually a mod (not sure if it was ever finished) that rotates the screen 45 degrees and it actually makes it look relatively normal (no vector pun intended).

 

[Shifty]

relatively normal (no vector pun intended).

 

[Turin Turambar]

I think the biggest problem to play it now would be the combat. It would be cool if Exult included a 'slow-mo' feature to make the combat more manageable and tactical.

 

[Graphics Horse]

From wikipedia's atricle on isometric projection in videogames, here's a handy primer. Ultima's is cavalier, just not using the same grid plane as the illustration[/IMG]

Military, no? Right angles on the floor stay as right angles. I don't know if there's a mod to rotate the screen 45 degrees but that would pretty much fix it.

 

[tauke]

I rotate the screenshots in the OP by 45 degrees in Photoshop:

 

[Dreadmoth]

From wikipedia's atricle on isometric projection in videogames, here's a handy primer. Ultima's is cavalier, just not using the same grid plane as the illustration.

Cavalier might be used by Divine Divinity

 

[aravuus]

I think the biggest problem to play it now would be the combat. It would be cool if Exult included a 'slow-mo' feature to make the combat more manageable and tactical.

Sure sounds like it, going by this thread. Does the game have a god mode cheat or something like that?

 

[Falk]

can't you just pretend it's top down with a super wide FOV and due to a bug you only see the top left 1/16th of the screen

 

[JCG]

Sure sounds like it, going by this thread. Does the game have a god mode cheat or something like that?

It definitely has a bunch of cheat options. I liked messing around with them back in the day.

 

[Chev]

Military, no? Right angles on the floor stay as right angles. I don't know if there's a mod to rotate the screen 45 degrees but that would pretty much fix it.

Cavalier might be used by Divine Divinity

Yeah, see, the thing is, when you rotate military 45° it becomes cavalier. By rotating the pictures you made them cavalier. You're paying too much attention to the floor grid when only the axes matter. Two axes aligned with the screen/sheet and the third at 135° and preserving lengths-> Cavalier. As with all projections it doesn't matter where the floor is (and even assuming there's a floor is a mistake).

Sure sounds like it, going by this thread. Does the game have a god mode cheat or something like that?

You won't need a god mode, honest. It requires no grinding to win, at least in Exult. But even if you did need one, there's an in-universe one, just do the forge of virtue sidequest and you'll get a kill-everything-in-1-hit sword.

 

[JMY86]

Ultima VII is my all time favorite game and one of the finest RPG's ever made. It also features a great cast of characters and a fantastic villian. The game still holds up pretty well I try to replay it every few years when I can. You simply cannot go wrong playing Ultima VII.

 

[PdotMichael]

Yeah I always thought that perspective was weird. Ultima 6 used it too though.

And so did Faery Tale Adventure back in 1986.

I think it was probably just an early attempt at making the graphics look more three-dimensional.

I guess diagonal running wasn't a thing back then

 

[aravuus]

You won't need a god mode, honest. It requires no grinding to win, at least in Exult. But even if you did need one, there's an in-universe one, just do the forge of virtue sidequest and you'll get a kill-everything-in-1-hit sword.

That sounds hilarious.

I think I'll check the game out at some point too. I'd try it right now, probably, if I could access my GOG account page, but for some reason it keeps redirecting me to the front page.

e: Managed to buy and download the complete edition, but I'm not sure what to do with the Exult installer. Picking the U7 directory for Black Gate is fine, but the same directory for Serpent Isle says it's not present.

 

[Lord Panda]

You won't need a god mode, honest. It requires no grinding to win, at least in Exult. But even if you did need one, there's an in-universe one, just do the forge of virtue sidequest and you'll get a kill-everything-in-1-hit sword.

I love that sword.

 

[Coreda]

I rotate the screenshots in the OP by 45 degrees in Photoshop:

Much clearer. I'd likely get used to the original angle if I played it however.

Edit: I think the impression of the images in the OP is made worse by the scaling in the quote tags. Full scale it's not as bad.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

I find VII hard to play today, despite enjoying it back then. It's not even the camera angle, but for me the jerky scrolling is what does my head in. It just annoys me now. The resolution also seems to hurt this game worse than others due to some of the interface and visual design. I can go back and play VI or even VIII and they don't bother me as much. I'd love a remake or fan-version of U7 with smooth scrolling and 640x480 or better graphics.

 

[jacket320]

It's worth checking out - the music, lore, and subplots are fantastic. I played it for the first time a few years ago and enjoyed it. Some elements are dated and the combat (as already mentioned) can be a turn-off but if you know that going in then I think you will have a great experience.

I also enjoyed Ultima VIII and it's worth playing as well imo. Yes, it's a radical departure from the games that came before but the setting and dark, thematic story are fantastic. Much of the criticism regarding platforming elements is completely resolved with patches and the change to a solo adventure from prior games has lost its sting with time.

 

[toddhunter]

Ultima 6 and 7 are two of my favourite games of all time. 7 in particular is a must play for youngsters, if only to realise that open world isn't some modern invention. Ultima 7 did it way better a long time ago. Npcs, job cycles, interactive bread making."Modern games could be better but cpu constraints!!!" Give me a break, it ran on a 386.

This is actual open world, not the modern "open landscape" where things vanish when you turn a corner. It is magical.

But I feel it will be a tough sell because of the combat (you enter combat mode and random shit happens) and the lack of hand holding in quests. This means the game demands a lot, but I hope you can get into it, if just to cast some fun spells.

6 is the better one though. Besides giving a mouse a boomerang you ... actually no that is enough.

Give both a go.

 

[Alexander DeLarge]

The game definitely holds up but if you're in it for the "sandbox", go play Ultima Online. Possibly a freeshard like Renaissance, UOForever (or Rel Por if you want custom content made for a smaller community). If you want a modern Ultima 7, I recommend just playing Divinity Original Sin.

 

[ISee]

Ultima 7 will be like a jump into a cold, deep see full of sharp ice floes. It is certainly a classic, but gameplay is awful by today standards. But it was the first game that created an interactive, living worlds and a good one. Combat is there, sort of, inventory management is like managing the purses of several women simultaneously, your party members can be annoying and the morality system has some issues. My advice: Give it a try, but don't force yourself. This was an incredible experience back then, but my desire to replay it is rather small, mainly because the game demands a lot of micro management.

Just a tip: Make notes, lots of them

It's worth checking out - the music, lore, and subplots are fantastic. I played it for the first time a few years ago and enjoyed it. Some elements are dated and the combat (as already mentioned) can be a turn-off but if you know that going in then I think you will have a great experience.

I also enjoyed Ultima VIII and it's worth playing as well imo. Yes, it's a radical departure from the games that came before but the setting and dark, thematic story are fantastic. Much of the criticism regarding platforming elements is completely resolved with patches and the change to a solo adventure from prior games has lost its sting with time.

What are you talking about there is no Ultima 8 or even 9, the series ended with 7.

 

[toddhunter]

The game definitely holds up but if you're in it for the "sandbox", go play Ultima Online. Possibly a freeshard like Renaissance, UOForever (or Rel Por if you want custom content made for a smaller community). If you want a modern Ultima 7, I recommend just playing Divinity Original Sin.

This post triggered me so hard.

Ultima Online basically killed the (single player) crpg genre for a long time and divinity original sin is closer to diablo. If you want a modern ultima 7, play ultima 7. It is still better than the garbage that came after.