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[element]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdWt2HFvWRk

That video from 2016 gives no reference of time outside "a long time". What does that mean? That video even suggests WHY they were an ideal candidate for Spiderman BECAUSE of Sunset! The fact that they didn't have their next big game lined up makes it a perfect match.

The director of Sunset isn't on Spider-Man, he went on to work on VR projects. The Spider-Man deal was also signed around the time Sunset shipped. It was an incredibly lucrative deal for all parties involved, Insomniac wouldn't have turned it down.

Actually that isn't correct. Bryan Intihar (former 1up Show/EGM) is the creative director on Spiderman, who was previously Director of Project Managment for the entire studio, and specifically Sunset Overdrive.

If anything they would've expanded the teams.

If Sunset 2 was greenlit, I'd honestly think they would have passed or worked a deal that it would be their game after Sunset 2 was complete. Considering Sunset was the largest game they worked on at the time, and now they are saying Spiderman is larger than Sunset, two teams just isn't realistic without making major changes to the studios culture and processes. Everyone I talk with about Insomniac talks about how much of a family it feels, and that is something they hold as a core value. Expanding to a 400 person studio makes that near impossible.

This is all fantasy land. Again it is more of a statement of MS mismanagement of the external partners and the games they make. This goes all the way back to the Original Xbox with Psychonauts.

 

[privitsan02]

Actually that isn't correct. Bryan Intihar (former 1up Show/EGM) is the creative director on Spiderman, who was previously Director of Project Managment for the entire studio, and specifically Sunset Overdrive.

If Sunset 2 was greenlit, I'd honestly think they would have passed or worked a deal that it would be their game after Sunset 2 was complete. Considering Sunset was the largest game they worked on at the time, and now they are saying Spiderman is larger than Sunset, two teams just isn't realistic without making major changes to the studios culture and processes. Everyone I talk with about Insomniac talks about how much of a family it feels, and that is something they hold as a core value. Expanding to a 400 person studio makes that near impossible.

This is all fantasy land. Again it is more of a statement of MS mismanagement of the external partners and the games they make. This goes all the way back to the Original Xbox with Psychonauts.

Oh I know what Bryan was up to, I meant the actual creative director of Sunset Overdrive, Marcus Smith. He was also the creative director of Resistance 3 and it would've been likely that IF Sunset 2 was greenlit, which would've occurred around the same time the Spidey deal happened, they would've split teams and have longer development time.

This is something that Eidos Montreal had done for many years, expanding the teams for the project, rather than expanding continuously. Insomniac already have 3 offices, so it would've all come down to project management.

Anyway, as you said, it's all hypothesis and Spider-Man could've ended up at Sucker Punch instead of Insomniac. To be honest, Microsoft are better off investing elsewhere as it's very unlikely a sequel would do better. (although would still be better than Crackdown 3)

Best wishes.

 

[element]

Anyway, as you said, it's all hypothesis and Spider-Man could've ended up at Sucker Punch instead of Insomniac.

haha. i can say with 99% certainty that they would have said no. they think working on someone else's IP is 'beneath them'.

To be honest, Microsoft are better off investing elsewhere as it's very unlikely a sequel would do better.

they have been burning it in the dumpster.

 

[Elfstruck]

Nvm.

 

[element]

No, did you watch the video. Marvel came to Sony for a Spiderman game back in 2014 and that's when Sony suggested Insomniac. The discussion began back then.

Watched it. And it doesn't tell me anything outside of the process in how everything aligned. It gives no context of time.

Scott Rohde - "Something we have been working on for a long time and I've had to be silent.". No mention of dates. No year. No months. No "well in Aug 2014..."

Scott Rohde - "Insomniac would be perfect because they already had some next-gen tech up and running." That tech was Sunset Overdrive.

Again, the stars aligned for this Spiderman game. Marvel to want to get into games (previously had little interest), Insomniac to be available, Sony willing to co-publish (this their first internal 1st party/3rd party partnership as Scott and Adam said, two totally different divisions).

 

[Nightengale]

Charts updated with post-conference announcements of AoE and HW2 Expansion, for those interested.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Charts updated with post-conference announcements of AoE and HW2 Expansion, for those interested.

Unless MS plans to do their own show (which I think they should to mirror PSX), one can only assume that MS doesn't want to make any further investments in first party and are fine with whatever revenue they get out of XBL overall.

 

[element]

Unless MS plans to do their own show (which I think they should to mirror PSX), one can only assume that MS doesn't want to make any further investments in first party and are fine with whatever revenue they get out of XBL overall.

I don't think MS could pull off a multi-day event like PSX. They have done fan events like last year at Gamescom which they will probably do again this year instead of a press conference.

There have been some huge failures on that list. Between Scalebound, Project Spark, Fable Legend and Phantom Dust (Remake) that is probably $100m in canceled development.

 

[Nightengale]

MS has reiterated and re-emphasised their Fanfest as their preferred alternative to PSX.

Obviously things can change, but a big part of PSX is the press conference to announce new games, and I don't see MS holding an Xbox-equivalent if they can't hold their own in terms of having a software showcase as well.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

From the Eurogamer interview with Phil, thought this was a good excerpt to put in here.

You had a lot of games, which was great, but where were the big first-party game announcements?

Phil Spencer: So, our first-party game announcements on stage, Forza 7...

Okay, but we knew about Forza. It was a known quantity, that one.

Phil Spencer: Well, it was our announce. You can take it away from me, but it was an announce. Ori, which looked fantastic. Super Lucky's Tale, did you see that?

I'm talking more about...

Phil Spencer: You're not liking my answer, okay. What do you want us to show?

You know what I mean. Triple-A, big Microsoft first-party games.

Phil Spencer: Well, you think of Sea of Thieves as that, right?

Yeah, but that had been announced. I'm talking about big first-party triple-A announcements to get us all really excited for Xbox One X.

Phil Spencer: The focus I had on this show was games you're going to get to play in the next year. We're focusing on Xbox One S and Xbox One X and the games you're going to play. We showed Crackdown, which looks fantastic. It's going to be there at launch day for Xbox One X, which will be a great showcase for the box. Obviously Sea of Thieves. I thought State of Decay showed up really well. Some people played State of Decay 1, but a lot of people missed it. Now we're giving that game time to really hit what we want State of Decay to do, because that will be an important franchise for us. We showed Forza.

Frankly, I loved the fact I didn't have to bring out Gears and Halo just to say, hey. People know we have Gears and Halo in our portfolio, and we're working on other things that aren't on this list...

I was going to ask - what's your assessment of the first-party studio setup you have now? Is there enough there for you to be able to provide the kind of games I'm talking about?

Phil Spencer: I've been in this job three years and focused on hardware innovation and I think we've landed two great consoles in the last two years, with Xbox One S and Xbox One X. I've focused a lot on live innovation and getting our developer platform as much as the consumer side of the platform in shape. I'm spending a lot of time on our first-party right now. I do think we have an opportunity to get better in first-party and to grow. We've got great support from the company to go do that.

We've signed some things we haven't announced. I'm not gonna go stand on-stage - I've lived through announcing things too early and then had to live up to the hype while you're trying to go build the game, and I'm learning. I'm not a big fan of that. So I want to give teams the time.

It was teasing - and I'm not throwing this team under the bus because they've made fun of themselves - Cuphead, which isn't the same type of game you're talking about, but it's something you've never seen before.

I think Scalebound and Fable Legends really really hurt them.

 

[_Aaron_]

I think Scalebound and Fable Legends really really hurt them.

I don't understand MS when they say they are investing more in first-party content but they still shut down Lionhead last year. Even if Fable Legends was going to suck, you still have a competent developer were capable of making a decent RPG for an established franchise. I'm not even a huge Fable fan but I think it was a mistake to just shut down a studio like that.

 

[InquisitorAles]

From the Eurogamer interview with Phil, thought this was a good excerpt to put in here.

I think Scalebound and Fable Legends really really hurt them.

That's exactly i was talking about yesterday, they simply don't want to announce games too early now after all those cancellations and delays. I like this approach more then announcing game 3+ year away from release date and showing one trailer at E3 every year.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

I'm spending a lot of time on our first-party right now. I do think we have an opportunity to get better in first-party and to grow. We've got great support from the company to go do that.

But you're the one Phil who shut down Lionhead, Press Play and let Twisted Pixel go independent (I think they axed Team Dakota too?). He talks a good talk but his actions are contrary to his words.

We've signed some things we haven't announced. I'm not gonna go stand on-stage - I've lived through announcing things too early and then had to live up to the hype while you're trying to go build the game, and I'm learning. I'm not a big fan of that. So I want to give teams the time.

I mean, this is somewhat empty considering Crackdown 3, Scalebound, Phantom Dust, Sea of Thieves and Cuphead have all been announced during his tenure as the head of Xbox. I'm not sure he deserves the benefit of the doubt at this point.

 

[Lom1lo]

But you're the one Phil who shut down Lionhead, Press Play and let Twisted Pixel go independent. He talks a good talk but his actions are contrary to his words.



I mean, this is somewhat empty considering Crackdown 3, Scalebound, Phantom Dust, Sea of Thieves and Cuphead have all been announced during his tenure as the head of Xbox. I'm not sure he deserves the benefit of the doubt at this point.

I agree 100%. They need to show that they care and not just talk.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

But you're the one Phil who shut down Lionhead, Press Play and let Twisted Pixel go independent (I think they axed Team Dakota too?). He talks a good talk but his actions are contrary to his words.



I mean, this is somewhat empty considering Crackdown 3, Scalebound, Phantom Dust, Sea of Thieves and Cuphead have all been announced during his tenure as the head of Xbox. I'm not sure he deserves the benefit of the doubt at this point.

I get that and maybe its the optimist in me but im willing to give Phil and his team the benefit of the doubt for now.....

There is no denying he walked into a car crash of a situation and if we go by what he says here his first goal was to fix the hardware, then add features and benefits as a service and then it comes to first party.....

Ill give him the window of getting games like Forza, SoD2, SoT, CD3 out the door first and then see what the next slew of first party funded titles looks like. The heat is on though!

 

[Triggerhappytel]

I mean, next E3 they should have:

Forza Horizon 3
Halo 6
Maybe their game with Studio Gobo?
Maybe something Gears related?

Can we make informed guesses about anything else they might have ready by then? Any other second-party partners I'm forgetting?

 

[Nightengale]

Again, nothing Phil said is surprising.

We know Halo 6 will come next year. Phil could've easily announced it this year. We know there are at least 6-7 unannounced Shannon Loftis GP game in development. If Phil wanted to rack up brownie points, he could've announced half of them to "win E3" or whatever.

Even without him saying it, we know that he has been burned by Scalebound & Fable Legends and is trying to not announce things too early in advance if he can help it.

But make no mistake.

That does not earn him benefit of any doubt.

My list that I shared made it pretty clear. It is not one E3 where they had dismal announcement line-ups, it is 2 E3s. And most importantly, even within those 2 E3s, the signs of exciting, new AAA IPs are nowhere in sight.

And new IPs are often times games that should be announced at least 12-18 months in advance because there are benefits in gauging market response to new ideas/concepts so that devs can work to improve on the idea upon consumer reaction.

Unless Phil wants to be a risk-taker and announce a new AAA IP and release it within 4 months; by not having any new AAA IP this year, Phil is effectively signalling that there is no new AAA IP that will be announced and released in 2018 for Xbox. And that next year's line-up of games will be Halo 6, Forza Horizon 4, smaller AA titles, on top of what has been delayed from this year to next year.

I have no doubt Phil has games churning in the background. But unless he's been secretly nurturing an amount and quality of games that are exponentially bigger in quality/quantity than the past 3 years as Head of Xbox or even past 7 years, it won't be enough.

 

[bede-x]

Unless Phil wants to be a risk-taker and announce a new AAA IP and release it within 4 months; by not having any new AAA IP this year, Phil is effectively signalling that there is no new AAA IP that will be announced and released in 2018 for Xbox. And that next year's line-up of games will be Halo 6, Forza Horizon 4, smaller AA titles, on top of what has been delayed from this year to next year.

If you add Sea of Thieves, State of Decay 2 and maybe the new Ori to the titles you mentioned, 2018 is actually looking like a pretty decent line-up. Not a surprising line-up, but one with a good mix of well known titles and stuff that still feels fresh. The problem is we thought some of those titles would be out this year, making 2017 look a little barren. And there's still not much if you're looking for single player games.

 

[Freiya]

I just don't understand how i'm supposed to look at games like Spider man and God of War and then look at games like Sea of thieves and state of decay and get excited for them. Maybe I'm just too bias toward big budget single player games but that's definitely what I like and Microsoft has zero games that look good to me. Like literally zero games at this point. There is zero competition in my mind, its not even a fight. Microsoft has been dragged behind the school and beat silly when it comes to what I consider serious gaming experiences. I really can't even fathom how you announce a 500$ box and don't show a single first party exclusive taking advantage of it besides the same ol Forza.

 

[Zedox]

I just don't understand how i'm supposed to look at games like Spider man and God of War and then look at games like Sea of thieves and state of decay and get excited for them. Maybe I'm just too bias toward big budget single player games but that's definitely what I like and Microsoft has zero games that look good to me. Like literally zero games at this point. There is zero competition in my mind, its not even a fight. Microsoft has been dragged behind the school and beat silly when it comes to what I consider serious gaming experiences. I really can't even fathom how you announce a 500$ box and don't show a single first party exclusive taking advantage of it besides the same ol Forza.

Those games don't appeal to you and that's fine.

 

[fantomena]

Those games don't appeal to you and that's fine.

MS has been taking a general big beating for a long time. 2:1 worldwide to PS4 is bad.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

MS has been taking a general big beating for a long time. 2:1 worldwide to PS4 is bad.

I don't think most of us who are looking forward to those titles are too concerned with the sales numbers. It is what it is.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

Xbox is lacking that one title, well multiple if we compare them straight to Sony, that one title that blows you away graphically. And I mean a first party game,otherwise you could mention Anthem. Crackdown, State of Decay 2 and a Sea of Thieves sure are not on the same caliber as a God of War or Days Gone or Spider Man when it comes to graphics and animations. It's a huge difference.

With each E3 show you just see that Sony's devs fully understand the hardware. Not dissing Undead Labs, Sumo Digital and Rare now but MS lacks a studio that can be compared to ND, Santa Monica, Bend etc. I really doubt we're going to see that anytime soon as well. I'm sure Halo 6 will look great, but that's just one title. Imagine if MS had partnered again with Crytek for a game. I mean Ryse to this day looks amazing.

As for the quotes from Spencer. It's not exactly filling me with confidence. He mentions Forza, goes on to mention Sea of Thieves that got delayed several times now too, Crackdown which he calls amazing or something, I wouldn't exactly call it that but OK and State of Decay 2.

All mostly already announced games. I'm glad he later confirms there are some things in the making and he don't want to announce that but I'm not sure if that's the right way to go about it. I'm happy he says they wanted to focus on 2018 games though because that should mean we get Ori 2 next year.

 

[Ushay]

I don't understand MS when they say they are investing more in first-party content but they still shut down Lionhead last year. Even if Fable Legends was going to suck, you still have a competent developer were capable of making a decent RPG for an established franchise. I'm not even a huge Fable fan but I think it was a mistake to just shut down a studio like that.

This is just a total guess but I think MS did those shut downs because they wanted to turn their current studios into multiproject studios. The issue is we didn't see any evidence of this at E3.

 

[Noctix]

Xbox is lacking that one title, well multiple if we compare them straight to Sony, that one title that blows you away graphically. And I mean a first party game,otherwise you could mention Anthem. Crackdown, State of Decay 2 and a Sea of Thieves sure are not on the same caliber as a God of War or Days Gone or Spider Man when it comes to graphics and animations. It's a huge difference.

With each E3 show you just see that Sony's devs fully understand the hardware. Not dissing Undead Labs, Sumo Digital and Rare now but MS lacks a studio that can be compared to ND, Santa Monica, Bend etc. I really doubt we're going to see that anytime soon as well. I'm sure Halo 6 will look great, but that's just one title. Imagine if MS had partnered again with Crytek for a game. I mean Ryse to this day looks amazing.

As for the quotes from Spencer. It's not exactly filling me with confidence. He mentions Forza, goes on to mention Sea of Thieves that got delayed several times now too, Crackdown which he calls amazing or something, I wouldn't exactly call it that but OK and State of Decay 2.

All mostly already announced games. I'm glad he later confirms there are some things in the making and he don't want to announce that but I'm not sure if that's the right way to go about it. I'm happy he says they wanted to focus on 2018 games though because that should mean we get Ori 2 next year.

This is an interesting point. My main issue with Xbox One X so far is firsty party is where you really show your graphics capability. Forza looks beautiful but then SoT looks ok/good and state of decay and crackdown just looks bad when considering they are suppose to represent the most powerful console on the market.

Also i am going to be honest, I was really looking forward to crackdown 3 but i get this feeling it is being sent to die. I wouldn't mind a few months delay and release it in a non-busy season just so it doesn't totally kill the franchise.

 

[PanicFreak]

Xbox is lacking that one title, well multiple if we compare them straight to Sony, that one title that blows you away graphically. And I mean a first party game,otherwise you could mention Anthem. Crackdown, State of Decay 2 and a Sea of Thieves sure are not on the same caliber as a God of War or Days Gone or Spider Man when it comes to graphics and animations. It's a huge difference.

With each E3 show you just see that Sony's devs fully understand the hardware. Not dissing Undead Labs, Sumo Digital and Rare now but MS lacks a studio that can be compared to ND, Santa Monica, Bend etc. I really doubt we're going to see that anytime soon as well. I'm sure Halo 6 will look great, but that's just one title. Imagine if MS had partnered again with Crytek for a game. I mean Ryse to this day looks amazing.

As for the quotes from Spencer. It's not exactly filling me with confidence. He mentions Forza, goes on to mention Sea of Thieves that got delayed several times now too, Crackdown which he calls amazing or something, I wouldn't exactly call it that but OK and State of Decay 2.

All mostly already announced games. I'm glad he later confirms there are some things in the making and he don't want to announce that but I'm not sure if that's the right way to go about it. I'm happy he says they wanted to focus on 2018 games though because that should mean we get Ori 2 next year.

You start off your post saying that it's missing "that one title" and then dismiss Halo 6 because it's "just one title."

What Microsoft is missing is a game that exceeds expectations. We all expect Halo to be incredible and when it came out, it wasn't incredible. Most weren't expecting Quantum Break to be anything but mediocre and reviews bore that out. Really the only exception to this problem this generation has been Forza Horzion 3, which cleared a very high bar people placed.

Microsoft has to have a AAA type game that does what FH3 did. The problem is that Halo and Gears have the weight of their incredible predecessors on their shoulders so it would appear that they need to do so with a new IP. Maybe Sea of Thieves will be that game? Maybe it will be Crackdown. Maybe it won't happen this generation.

 

[Michael Armbrust]

I mean, next E3 they should have:

Forza Horizon 3
Halo 6
Maybe their game with Studio Gobo?
Maybe something Gears related?

Can we make informed guesses about anything else they might have ready by then? Any other second-party partners I'm forgetting?

Yeah what happened with Studio Gobo? Don't think I saw any game from them.

 

[Yearsoflurking]

But you're the one Phil who shut down Lionhead, Press Play and let Twisted Pixel go independent (I think they axed Team Dakota too?). He talks a good talk but his actions are contrary to his words.



I mean, this is somewhat empty considering Crackdown 3, Scalebound, Phantom Dust, Sea of Thieves and Cuphead have all been announced during his tenure as the head of Xbox. I'm not sure he deserves the benefit of the doubt at this point.

all of those teams had commercially bombed games. you don't keep a group of developers with no creative vision just for head count. only one i have a problem with is pressplay

 

[Bits N Pieces]

I just don't understand how i'm supposed to look at games like Spider man and God of War and then look at games like Sea of thieves and state of decay and get excited for them. Maybe I'm just too bias toward big budget single player games but that's definitely what I like and Microsoft has zero games that look good to me. Like literally zero games at this point. There is zero competition in my mind, its not even a fight. Microsoft has been dragged behind the school and beat silly when it comes to what I consider serious gaming experiences. I really can't even fathom how you announce a 500$ box and don't show a single first party exclusive taking advantage of it besides the same ol Forza.

I'd rather play Sea of Thieves and State of Decay 2 than Spiderman and God of War but I do love my my co op tom fuckery! Should I sell my Xbox and buy a PS4 Pro?

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Xbox is lacking that one title, well multiple if we compare them straight to Sony, that one title that blows you away graphically. And I mean a first party game,otherwise you could mention Anthem. Crackdown, State of Decay 2 and a Sea of Thieves sure are not on the same caliber as a God of War or Days Gone or Spider Man when it comes to graphics and animations. It's a huge difference.

I honestly thought they were going to open with Crackdown 3 and it would be their massive major tentpole for this year. It should have had a long gameplay demo like Spider-Man, not a 160 second trailer where nearly half of that was live-action jokes and the rest was weirdly unconvincing gameplay mostly using shots from freeform camera angles.

With each E3 show you just see that Sony's devs fully understand the hardware. Not dissing Undead Labs, Sumo Digital and Rare now but MS lacks a studio that can be compared to ND, Santa Monica, Bend etc. I really doubt we're going to see that anytime soon as well. I'm sure Halo 6 will look great, but that's just one title. Imagine if MS had partnered again with Crytek for a game. I mean Ryse to this day looks amazing.

Not going ahead with Ryse 2 was a mistake for both parties. Imagine if Ryse 2: Knights of England was real and opened E3 with this massive gameplay demo akin to God of War, ending in a battle against a dragon or something.

You start off your post saying that it's missing "that one title" and then dismiss Halo 6 because it's "just one title."

What Microsoft is missing is a game that exceeds expectations. We all expect Halo to be incredible and when it came out, it wasn't incredible. Most weren't expecting Quantum Break to be anything but mediocre and reviews bore that out. Really the only exception to this problem this generation has been Forza Horzion 3, which cleared a very high bar people placed.

Microsoft has to have a AAA type game that does what FH3 did. The problem is that Halo and Gears have the weight of their incredible predecessors on their shoulders so it would appear that they need to do so with a new IP. Maybe Sea of Thieves will be that game? Maybe it will be Crackdown. Maybe it won't happen this generation.

Microsoft needs a successful new IP like The Last of Us, Bloodborne, Horizon Zero Dawn or Splatoon. Something that's a really big hit critically and commercially and gives them a lot of slack with sequels because fans are re-enthused by the new game.

Yeah what happened with Studio Gobo? Don't think I saw any game from them.

I think it's still early stages. It wasn't long ago we found out about the collaboration from job listings, was it? Or did they outwardly confirm they're working with MS?

all of those teams had commercially bombed games. you don't keep a group of developers with no creative vision just for head count. only one i have a problem with is pressplay

Sure, I agree. But Lionhead was very badly mismanaged over the years and they were a fairly large clearly talented studio. It seems hypocritical to shut down a studio like that and then twelve months later say "I'm really focused on first-party and I want to increase our number of development studios".

 

[Yearsoflurking]

I honestly thought they were going to open with Crackdown 3 and it would be their massive major tentpole for this year. It should have had a long gameplay demo like Spider-Man, not a 160 second trailer where nearly half of that was live-action jokes and the rest was weirdly unconvincing gameplay mostly using shots from freeform camera angles.



Not going ahead with Ryse 2 was a mistake for both parties. Imagine if Ryse 2: Knights of England was real and opened E3 with this massive gameplay demo akin to God of War, ending in a battle against a dragon or something.



Microsoft needs a successful new IP like The Last of Us, Bloodborne, Horizon Zero Dawn or Splatoon. Something that's a really big hit critically and commercially and gives them a lot of slack with sequels because fans are re-enthused by the new game.



I think it's still early stages. It wasn't long ago we found out about the collaboration from job listings, was it? Or did they outwardly confirm they're working with MS?



Sure, I agree. But Lionhead was very badly mismanaged over the years and they were a fairly large clearly talented studio. It seems hypocritical to shut down a studio like that and then twelve months later say "I'm really focused on first-party and I want to increase our number of development studios".

lionhead has had troubles with studio visions since peter left. he obviously was the leader behind whatever creative vision they had at lionhead . matrick putting phil harrison in charge of the European studios was such an critical mistake for all of them. he basically turned all emea studios into free to play/ games as services studios. microsoft should have built brand new studios that could build those type of games instead of forcing am initiative

 

[Zukkoyaki]

I thought they would do more to dampen the concerns regarding their first party situation but clearly I was wrong.

Something like at the end of the show Phil talking about how Microsoft Studios is investing for the future alongside Xbox One X by seeking out terrific partners to create exciting new exclusive games for the platform. Then show logos for companies like Gobo and like 2-3 others. No trailers, no details, just reassurance that they hear our concerns and that things are moving. I know everyone is weary about announcing stuff far in advance, but I feel like this approach would have worked.

We'll see what next year brings. It already feels like the true make or break moment.

 

[bede-x]

I'd rather play Sea of Thieves and State of Decay 2 than Spiderman and God of War but I do love my my co op tom fuckery! Should I sell my Xbox and buy a PS4 Pro?

If you like co-op, I don't see what's so wrong with Xbox's line-up? Halo, Gears, Forza Horizon 3, State of Decay 2, Crackdown 3, Halo Wars 2, Sea of Thieves etc. They're all co-op. It's the one thing they do better than Sony's first party.

At this point it's fair to say that if someone wants exclusive AAA single player experiences, Playstation is the place to be, but Xbox certainly isn't lacking when it comes to co-op.

 

[blakep267]

If you like co-op, I don't see what's so wrong with Xbox's line-up? Halo, Gears, Forza Horizon 3, State of Decay 2, Crackdown 3, Halo Wars 2, Sea of Thieves etc. They're all co-op. It's the one thing they do better than Sony's first party.

At this point it's fair to say that if someone wants exclusive AAA single player experiences, Playstation is the place to be, but Xbox certainly isn't lacking when it comes to co-op.

I don't understand why that's so hard to comprehend. For the type of gamer I am, nothing about what Sony showed truly appealed to what I want to do. Spider-Man looks cool but I'm primarily a MP first gamer then I'll play a SP game here and there. And frankly, that's fine I'm not really going to buy a PlayStation. That's there strength and focus. MS
Is seemingly playing to their "strengths".

Maybe it's just me, but I know what I expect software wise when I buy a Nintendo, sony or Xbox console.

 

[Doffen]

Charts updated with post-conference announcements of AoE and HW2 Expansion, for those interested.

Not sure why you included Halo Wars 2: Awakening the Nightmare.
Is the only E3 announcements that you include?

 

[Nightengale]

Not sure why you included Halo Wars 2: Awakening the Nightmare.
Is the only E3 announcements that you include?

I don't understand your question.

 

[Doffen]

I don't understand your question.

Do you only include announcements at big events?

 

[Nightengale]

Do you only include announcements at big events?

No. I believe I include every announcement regardless of venue, so long as it's :

- first-party
- 3rd party lifetime exclusive (indie or AAA)
- major timed exclusive deals that are strategic ( ala DR4/Tomb Raider)

 

[Doffen]

No. I believe I include every announcement regardless of venue, so long as it's :

- first-party
- 3rd party lifetime exclusive (indie or AAA)
- major timed exclusive deals that are strategic ( ala DR4/Tomb Raider)

Just found it odd that Voodoo Vince: Remastered isn't included. And that Halo Wars expansion is included, but not Forza Horizon expansions.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Just found it odd that Voodoo Vince: Remastered isn't included. And that Halo Wars expansion is included, but not Forza Horizon expansions.

I think the table is calculated by announcements made at E3 conferences. So the other expansions you mention were announced elsewhere?

 

[HighResTomato]

If Sony drops the PS4Pro price this holiday its going to be like Holiday 2013 all over again. Microsoft need to drop this bullshit strategy of theirs and start being aggressive on pricing and marketing.

People are not going to come back to your ecosystem on power alone. There is no excitement about the Xbox brand right now. It's become a joke every announcement, comment or trailer is being met with distrust by consumers its unreal.

That distrust is also warranted because of Microsofts very intentional creation of confusion.

The only appealing thing for Xbox right now is their superior online infrastructure. Nothing else.

- No Xbox Exclusives
- No third party hype
- More expensive
- Lacklustre promotions (sales on XBL store)
- First party studios performing at no where near the level they should be

It's all gone downhill for them, which made them make a lot of radical decisions regarding Xbox. Windows is basically absorbing it.

 

[chaosmaster(1)]

I think Microsoft would argue with that.

They invested HEAVILY in big exclusives early in the Xbox One days. This is really the first year that you are seeing them not doing that.

They created a massive new team and spent big to bring in Gears of War 4. They spent big on Quantum Break. Sunset Overdrive got a massive marketing push and was a big get. Dead Rising 3 and 4. And don't forget Ryse and Titanfall.

The industry has shifted a lot. Cost of development is massive. Exclusive games make less and less sense and I don't think there is a strong argument for spending money on unproven concepts.

I think the Xbox One X speaks more to moving the biggest spenders over to Xbox and off of PS4. "Whales" if you will who buy 20+ games a year who used to live on the 360.

This is what MS did during the 360 the first half of the gen MS really went in with the exclusives they had. It was the latter half that they dropped what didn't sell. They did the same thing this gen they came out hard and I think a couple of these new ips could've sold but the whole reveal, drm, and price debacle really poisoned them this gen.

They lost people on the 360 that would've bought these titles as well as some hardcore folks they had. That's the opportunity that happens at a new gen. As you were saying as A console fanboy I don't approve of it either but to them it seems the strategy is when a "new gen" starts it's go hard the first few years and see what sticks. If Halo and Gears were selling much better than they currently are they wouldn't be as hurt as they are by some of the flops they've had

If the system had a bigger install base than it currently has it would also reduce the pain they get from funding the flops they had. I think there were a lot of factors leading to where they currently are and they may ride this gen out on fewer investments but I wouldn't be surprised if they do what they did last gen and this gen where they bring the games in the early years.

They will have removed the factors of negative pr such as drm and 499 for an under powered box compared to a cheaper more powerful alternative. At this point if they get a new big exclusive that is successful it helps the division breathe more in terms of 1st party investment.

 

[Rumblebones]

From the Eurogamer interview with Phil, thought this was a good excerpt to put in here.



I think Scalebound and Fable Legends really really hurt them.

He's super defensive and I don't trust a single word he says.

Fans been giving the "next year you'll see" pass for years now. People are done waiting. If they had titles in development we'd hear rumours at least. We'd heard so and so are working on a new IP for Xbox and PC. We'd heard about studio hires and the odd whispers and here.

But we haven't. Microsoft barely had a first party stable and they killed several just in the last 18 months without doing anything to make up for it.

If Phil wants to prove his intentions, now is the time for making some real moves, publicly. Create or acquire studios, announce new partnerships with independent studios, and then actually make sure their IP don't get cancelled.

 

[Ushay]

I get that and maybe its the optimist in me but im willing to give Phil and his team the benefit of the doubt for now.....

There is no denying he walked into a car crash of a situation and if we go by what he says here his first goal was to fix the hardware, then add features and benefits as a service and then it comes to first party.....

Ill give him the window of getting games like Forza, SoD2, SoT, CD3 out the door first and then see what the next slew of first party funded titles looks like. The heat is on though!

This is my thinking as well, whatever he has greenlit and signed for games will manifest in the coming years. It still frustrates me that we didn't see any if these AAA games this E3, but if a game isn't ready, it just isn't.

He did step into a shit storm, fixed it and then redoubled his efforts on the hardware (now fixed) and the platform services. The only thing left is the 1st party efforts.

 

[EmiPrime]

lionhead has had troubles with studio visions since peter left. he obviously was the leader behind whatever creative vision they had at lionhead .

Well that's not true. If anything Molyneux sticking his oar in often hobbled Fable.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

He's super defensive and I don't trust a single word he says.

Fans been giving the "next year you'll see" pass for years now. People are done waiting. If they had titles in development we'd hear rumours at least. We'd heard so and so are working on a new IP for Xbox and PC. We'd heard about studio hires and the odd whispers and here.

But we haven't. Microsoft barely had a first party stable and they killed several just in the last 18 months without doing anything to make up for it.

If Phil wants to prove his intentions, now is the time for making some real moves, publicly. Create or acquire studios, announce new partnerships with independent studios, and then actually make sure their IP don't get cancelled.

Couldn't agree more. Saw right through him at this E3 and it wasn't pleasant. That response in the EG interview regarding first party said everything to me, "Forza" ....then how he went on to Ryan McCaffrey a few months ago about new studios and new IP. He's a phoney imo. People forget he was head of Microsoft studios for a while and just look at the output there, very similar complains about first party where happening back then too.

 

[EmiPrime]

He's super defensive and I don't trust a single word he says.

Fans been giving the "next year you'll see" pass for years now. People are done waiting. If they had titles in development we'd hear rumours at least. We'd heard so and so are working on a new IP for Xbox and PC. We'd heard about studio hires and the odd whispers and here.

But we haven't. Microsoft barely had a first party stable and they killed several just in the last 18 months without doing anything to make up for it.

If Phil wants to prove his intentions, now is the time for making some real moves, publicly. Create or acquire studios, announce new partnerships with independent studios, and then actually make sure their IP don't get cancelled.

Yep. He's a salesman, a PR/marketing guy. He's not your friend or worthy of any of that "I believe in Phil Spencer" bollocks. He says what he thinks you want to hear and will spin whatever nonsense yarn that makes himself and the brand look better, see the outright lies just over the last 2 days regarding native 4K, the PS4 Pro supposedly being in the same category as the One S and crying a river for the poor gamers over Sony's timed exclusive DLC despite the booming exclusivity voice over attached to timed exclusives that kept repeating like an echo during his conference.

I hope more people can now see through that mask he wears and this fake image he has been cultivating for himself, helped by Mattrick still being a scapegoat for all the platform's ills despite him leaving the company months before the console even came out.

Sorry for going full on Salty Hippo.

 

[Papo Swing]

So no new games at all from MS 1st party or did I miss something? This sucks. I really want the Xbox One X, because it is an awesome piece of hardware, but MS games....so lacking.

 

[Linkified]

I don't understand MS when they say they are investing more in first-party content but they still shut down Lionhead last year. Even if Fable Legends was going to suck, you still have a competent developer were capable of making a decent RPG for an established franchise. I'm not even a huge Fable fan but I think it was a mistake to just shut down a studio like that.

Well for one I believe it was in the Eurogamer post mortum thing that Lionhead was poorly structured. Secondly, MS has been quite aggressive on cutting staff from all across MS.

And Press Play is based in Copenhagen quite an expensive city. Who were making a GaaS product that didn't get attraction with the community.

 

[blakep267]

If Sony drops the PS4Pro price this holiday its going to be like Holiday 2013 all over again. Microsoft need to drop this bullshit strategy of theirs and start being aggressive on pricing and marketing.

People are not going to come back to your ecosystem on power alone. There is no excitement about the Xbox brand right now. It's become a joke every announcement, comment or trailer is being met with distrust by consumers its unreal.

That distrust is also warranted because of Microsofts very intentional creation of confusion.

The only appealing thing for Xbox right now is their superior online infrastructure. Nothing else.

- No Xbox Exclusives
- No third party hype
- More expensive
- Lacklustre promotions (sales on XBL store)
- First party studios performing at no where near the level they should be

It's all gone downhill for them, which made them make a lot of radical decisions regarding Xbox. Windows is basically absorbing it.

I feel like your projecting random things onto people that they aren't feeling at all. The Pro and X are going to b non factors this holiday. The Slim and S are going to be $199-$249 with Mordor, Assassins creed, Battlefront and COD bundles. Those are what's going to push the vast majority of sales. The C is going to be purchased by hardcore existing Xbox fans and 4K enthusiasts.