no they couldn't
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Microsoft Studios (& Partners) Current and Future Landscape
- Thread starter Banjo-Kazooie
- Start date
no they couldn't
digoutyoursoul
Member
Thanks
element
Member
What do you mean no they couldn't? The Spiderman team IS the Sunset Team! If MS moved forward with Sunset 2, Insomniac wouldn't have looked for new opportunities, thus landing with Marvel Games and Sony to work on Spiderman.
Neuromancer
Member
Shocking. As a lapsed Xbox fan, this really bums me out. I just don't understand how we got to this point.My annual Xbox first-party (+ lifetime/major 3rd-party timed exclusive) chart that looks specifically at the announcement line-ups, updated with the latest E3 announcements.
Xbox FP 2017 in summary? The emperor has no clothes.
I still say shuttering Lionhead was a huge mistake. They could have been working on a brand new Fable, or another action RPG.
Hatefilled Vengeance
Member
Spider-Man coming in 2018 is way earlier than I expected. I really hope MS gets Insomniac to do SO2 for their next game.
They wouldn't refuse working with Sony on Spiderman even if Sunset 2 was a thing. We'd probably have a Scalebound/Nier Automata repeat
It's time to move on, people. Microsoft isn't about xbox exclusives anymore and they made that message clear several times already.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Oh man I was about to post the same thing. Look at how insane clean Spidey looks. Imagine if Insomniac were to make as you said SO2 or a new IP for X.
Sadly, goddamned fucking sadly SO didn't do too great. God knows why, so I doubt it will happen. The dev would love to make one but MS needs to green light it.
Sony sucked this year. They at least reveal 1 AAA game from their WWS every E3. Not today.
element
Member
They would have never been asked, because that team would have been working on Sunset 2.
Sunset 2 doesn't get greenlit.
Insomniac has a large and expensive team without a game, starts looking at options.
Signs with Marvel & Sony for Spiderman.
If Sunset 2 gets signed, they aren't looking for a game to make because they have one.
Are you suggesting that if Sunset 2 was greenlit, that they would have told MS to F'off, we are making Spiderman?
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Yeah but that only goes so far I would argue.....
After all they DID announce Ori 2 and I'm thankful for that but it's not a 2017 title. Shiiit I wish it was. It's likely a game for next year.
Besides they showed a ton of 2018 games, including exclusives like Sea of Thieves and SoD2. Odd.
You can sorta count Black Desert since I imagine most of the same people would be interested even though its Korean rather than Japanese.
I'm not gonna lie, getting Monster Hunter Worlds is good enough for me to make up for the terrible conference. Call me easy to please, but I was fully confident we would never see another MH title on Xbox.
Its kinda like getting a replacement for Scalebound...
they would, insomniac was the studio they had in mind for spiderman since the start
they would either split the work between two games or yes, tell microsoft to scram and work on spiderman instead. there's no bad blood between insomniac and sony despite what people want to believe
Well either that or maybe they are really thin atm so spreading out announcements for things like PSX. Given they revealed Lastofus 2 there I wouldn't put it pass them to reveal big titles there now. Still not good to see not at least one big title revealed.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Exactly man. It's fantastic news and definitely think this is thanks to Phil's visit to Japan because these are the kind of games you totally expect to only hit PS4 and maybe PC. I'm hoping more games follow in the future from JP publishers. Who knows.
element
Member
DBZ game getting announced on xbox conference was also probably a result of the japan trip.
still holding out for some more surprises during tokyo game show though. or at least hoping
Nah.
You're the one putting too much weight on the one-off insomniac had with microsoft and thinking they would refuse one of their dream games (according to themselves) for a big name franchise with a long stablished partner
still holding out for some more surprises during tokyo game show though. or at least hoping
Nah.
You're the one putting too much weight on the one-off insomniac had with microsoft and thinking they would refuse one of their dream games (according to themselves) for a big name franchise with a long stablished partner
digoutyoursoul
Member
Just read the interview, his response to first party was guff, more Halo and more Gears from 343 and Coalition coming, wanted to focus on 2017....
The table that keeps being posted, someone in the media should show them that as they should be embarrassed in my opinion.
Was underwhelmed with Sony's E3 but the first party is night and day between the two, not only visually but in the overall scheme of things. People say MS "don't get it" I think they do, in their own minds.
The table that keeps being posted, someone in the media should show them that as they should be embarrassed in my opinion.
Was underwhelmed with Sony's E3 but the first party is night and day between the two, not only visually but in the overall scheme of things. People say MS "don't get it" I think they do, in their own minds.
Electret
Member
On point.
I certainly don't think MS is getting out of gaming - Nadella has been very vocal of the importance of the Xbox brand, and they're releasing a new console, for goodness' sake - but their appearance is increasingly suggestive of a company that wants to be a platform holder reliant on third parties. I'm not convinced they want to be anchored to first party development any more than they are. They've probably lost a ton on first party this gen. Ultimately, could we see an Xbox that is essentially a locked down PC that just features third party content, with MS merely being the service provider?
I am curious how they will handle 343i, Rare, Turn10, and TC in the interim. If Halo and Gears continue to gradually decline - Gears in particular - what then? Will they make one last ditch effort for those studios to attempt something new?
I'm pretty sure they ultimately want to turn Xbox into a gaming service that would reside primarily on PC and Xbox-branded consoles with fast upgrade cycles.
This explains their emphasis on 3rd parties and the reduction of 1st party content to just the core yearly Halo: Gears of Forza installments.
It also aligns with Nadella's vision for the company and how, under his leadership, Windows is also becoming increasingly service-ized (emphasis on cloud, forced updates, ads in the UI, etc).
I'm so glad I jumped ship.
element
Member
It is clear you have no clue how business development works in games. What makes you think that Sunset was a one off deal? If both parties wanted a sequel, they would have been working on it. MS decided not to move forward with a sequel.
If Sunset 2 was in development, they wouldn't have had an available team for Spiderman. Considering the scale of Spiderman and the potential size of something like Sunset 2, they just wouldn't have been able to do both games. To think that they wouldn't have bailed on their own IP is ridiculous.
I'm putting weight on contracts. Not emotions.
Every dev has 'dream projects' and many of them have to pass on them because things don't align. It just happened to work out for insomniac with Spiderman, and the lack of Sunset 2 opened that door.
I don't know what makes you believe teams can't expand when/if they're working on two projects (specially a well paid one like spiderman) but yes, they can.
And i wouldn't put that much weight in contracts for microsoft lately. Remember another company that was developing an exclusive, bailed out and released a game on PS4 right after?
Electret
Member
Yeah, this seems reasonable. One of the reasons I'm not a Nadella fan. Imagine if they had a CEO that was passionate about gaming?
element
Member
There are tons of reasons why a studio won't scale like that. Studio culture. Lack of space. Technology. Recruiting issues. Just because you can have a studio of 400 people, doesn't mean you should or want too. That is a HUGE assumption about the budget of Spiderman of somehow it is financially better than any other deal they were to sign.
You make it sound more like dating than a business contract.
Insomniac - "I love you Microsoft, Sunset 2 is going to be amazing!"
Marvel Games - "Hey Insomniac? Want to make a spiderman game?"
Insomniac - "Hey Microsoft, we need to talk..."
Which game was that? Please.
TheUnsunghero26
Member
I'm still getting caught up on UbiSoft's show. Do we know if Studio Gobo is working on Starlink? I know the trailer only says Ubisoft Toronto, but we do know that Gobo is both working on a toys-to-life game and partnering with UbiSoft.
Assuming Starlink is number 3, that would leave Microsoft's game as either a F2P one or a new IP.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Microsoft was never gonna get Spider-Man. Sony had the ball in their court with that IP.
element
Member
Seriously. Can you read? I never said that MS was getting Spiderman.
I'll make is really simple.
If Sunset Overdrive 2 was greenlit by Microsoft, the Spiderman we are seeing today would have never seen the light of day. Marvel and Sony would have pursued other developers as Insomniac would not have a team available to work on it for the foreseeable future or until Sunset 2 was complete.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
That's up to Insomniac. Work on Sunset, a small niche IP, or work on one of the biggest Superhero IPs. I don't see Sunset ever winning.
element
Member
Uggg. Seriously. Why is this so hard for people to get.
If they were working on Sunset 2, they wouldn't have been approached to make Spiderman because of they would have been busy and booked.
Work on your own IP or work 'again' on someone else's IP?
I've been in these type of meetings. Super simple version when you are busy.
Publisher: When is your team available?
Dev: Not until end of 2016.
Publisher: Damn. Doesn't fit in our schedule. Give us a call if you are free.
Dev: Will do. Thanks.
Not.
Publisher: Hey I know you are working on game with that other publisher. Would you kill it so you can work on this title instead?
Dev: huh..
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Really we don't know when Insomniac was approached to make Spider-Man.
Close enough.
Anyway yeah, I got rid of my entire MS ecosystem once I realized the direction Nadella is steering the company in and how disgusted I was by it.
The complete trashing of Halo by 343 also helped, lol.
Spiderman was in development right after SO. So your proposal just fell right through the window.
element
Member
links... I'll be sure to ask at E3
Back to the point. Microsoft had the opportunity to continue working with Insomniac and passed. Now they are making flagship PS4 title.
Steelyuhas
Member
If I got a complaint from the show, it's the poor marketing of the Studios games outside of FP. Rare gave SoT a great showing with a lengthy demo, carefully curated, paced, and given useful and fun narration that showcased the essence of the game well.
The titles from other studios...not so much. The State of Decay trailer is kind of a mess, for what will likely be a very good game, not the worst thing in the world but they could have done more for it. The real offender though, Crackdown. Big November release and in a 100 minute show it only gets a super sloppy 2 minute trailer? Really? I watched the gameplay segment on the Xbox Daily show today and was reassured, "oh it's definitely Crackdown should be a lot of fun". That's not to mention that puzzling decision to focus E3 on campaign when they have a multiplayer mode that does something new and potentially innovative. Hell, people thought that stuff had all been cut from the game based on what they saw in the briefing.
The titles from other studios...not so much. The State of Decay trailer is kind of a mess, for what will likely be a very good game, not the worst thing in the world but they could have done more for it. The real offender though, Crackdown. Big November release and in a 100 minute show it only gets a super sloppy 2 minute trailer? Really? I watched the gameplay segment on the Xbox Daily show today and was reassured, "oh it's definitely Crackdown should be a lot of fun". That's not to mention that puzzling decision to focus E3 on campaign when they have a multiplayer mode that does something new and potentially innovative. Hell, people thought that stuff had all been cut from the game based on what they saw in the briefing.
Welfare
Member
Unless some of those early 2018 games get delayed or they spend 20 minutes on Halo 6 with a bunch of third party deals, Microsoft will have to announce new IP at E3 2018.
This year needed to focus on 4 first party IP that needed to be release. Crackdown and Sea of Thieves need to release already and have been taking too much time, and State of Decay 2 and Ori 2 needs to come out. Where do you stick a new IP in the middle of that if it doesn't launch in the next 12 months?
New IP announcement is important but this year had no time for it. Microsoft aren't interested in announcing new games over a year away anymore.
This year needed to focus on 4 first party IP that needed to be release. Crackdown and Sea of Thieves need to release already and have been taking too much time, and State of Decay 2 and Ori 2 needs to come out. Where do you stick a new IP in the middle of that if it doesn't launch in the next 12 months?
New IP announcement is important but this year had no time for it. Microsoft aren't interested in announcing new games over a year away anymore.
element
Member
I think given the right IP they could have shown 2018 games.
If they had a 30 second teaser for a new Battletoads, Crimson Skies, Age of Empires, Project Gotham Racing, Fable (Proper sequel) or Rallisport Challenge people would have FLIPPED OUT! It gives hope. It tells fans that there is more coming. Also gives some credibility to "first party investment' outside of Halo, Forza and Gears.
DriftingSpirit
Member
I would be speechless if they don't announce a new IP next year. They'll have to and they will.
You mean new IP? Because State of Decay 2 was announced last year and it is 1+ years out.
Nah, we know Sucker Punch is working on a new IP. I think they just ran out of stuff. They've announced the vast majority of their first party content over the last two years.
Welfare
Member
Yeah. I don't see any new IP being announced unless they are scheduled to be released at most 8 to 10 months later.
-Stranger-
Junior Member
343 and TC need to make new IPs
Give Halo and Gears a break for awhile.
Give Halo and Gears a break for awhile.
links... I'll be sure to ask at E3
Back to the point. Microsoft had the opportunity to continue working with Insomniac and passed. Now they are making flagship PS4 title.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdWt2HFvWRk
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
I think they're all FY17 games, still.
Steelyuhas
Member
I think the more relevant metric here would be they come out before E3 next year.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
Yeah I thought that, but if they're specifically saying "it's all about 2017" then I'm thinking that FY17 is the technicality we're missing.
Fata1moose
Banned
Xbox needs a Fable reboot, Sunset 2 and some new IPS, the former two would help round things out a bit.
Next year will probably have SoD, sea of thieves and ori launching before E3 2018. They are going to likely announce halo 6& Forza HoriOn 4 for Fall 2018. If Anthem is actually coming out on Fall 2018, I can see them just rocking with those 2 games and Anthem for their fall lineup(maybe 1 smaller game). Next year's E3 imo will heavily focus on Anthem, Halo, horizon any other third party deals and whatever early 2019 new Ip they will release
DriftingSpirit
Member
Sure, agreed. Not major IP anyway.
LordBaztion
Member
MS needs to ditch it's policy of owning IPs and get the few remaining big independent studios in their court.
privitsan02
Member
Technically you're right but not really at the same time. The director of Sunset isn't on Spider-Man, he went on to work on VR projects. The Spider-Man deal was also signed around the time Sunset shipped. It was an incredibly lucrative deal for all parties involved, Insomniac wouldn't have turned it down.
If anything they would've expanded the teams. It was clear by then that Insomniac would definitely work on properties they do not own as long as the creative freedom and money is there after their experience with EA.
Oh man I was about to post the same thing. Look at how insane clean Spidey looks. Imagine if Insomniac were to make as you said SO2 or a new IP for X.
Sadly, goddamned fucking sadly SO didn't do too great. God knows why, so I doubt it will happen. The dev would love to make one but MS needs to green light it.
That won't happen because the future of Spider-Man console games is with Sony and Insomniac according to Marvel. Expect at least 3 games from them. Sure, they could have another team work on Sunset 2, but Spider-Man has their biggest team ever, and they also had a very successful Ratchet & Clank reboot, which deserves a sequel before Sunset Overdrive.
They also have a very ambitious VR and mobile team. That ship has unfortunately sailed which is a shame after seeing how Crackdown 3 turned out to be.
Best wishes.