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[inner-G]

They can already count Minecraft Switch players, or PS4 players, obviously,

They can't count PS4 players.

That's what this is all about.

They want to force XBL sign-ups for non-xbox gamers on PS4 to bump up their 'Monthly Active Users' numbers they talk about for Xbox Live.

'MAU's are a PR tactic they have switched to in lieu of using instead of using raw hardware sales numbers in their press releases since the PS4 began outselling the Xbox One.

Granted, Xbox live is a service, not a piece of hardware, but when their PR uses it as their measuring stick for sales it's not hard to see why the dominant company in the market wouldn't want to aid them in their PR messaging about how awesome their sales are.

 

[The Artisan]

They can't count PS4 players.

That's what this is all about.

They want to force XBL sign-ups for non-xbox gamers on PS4 to bump up their 'Monthly Active Users' numbers they talk about for Xbox Live.

'MAU's are a PR tactic they have switched to in lieu of using instead of using raw hardware sales numbers in their press releases since the PS4 began outselling the Xbox One.

Granted, Xbox live is a service, not a piece of hardware, but when their PR uses it as their measuring stick for sales it's not hard to see why the dominant company in the market wouldn't want to aid them in their PR messaging about how awesome their sales are.

Why does that matter so much though? A boosted xbl mau statistic isn't going to suddenly kill Ps4's momentum in sales. Moreover, as a consumer and someone who plays on Ps4, how would this affect the way you play your game?

 

[BlazinSkatinAxel]

Rovio makes everyone make an account for saves for Angry Birds games. EA requires an account for Madden. Naturally Microsoft will require an Microsoft account.

Sony just doesn't want any other console connected to their network. They're insecure about their network.

Developers want to do it, Sony doesn't. The players suffer.

 

[Agent X]

Minecraft, owned by Microsoft, uses a Microsoft account in order to allow DLC purchases to carry over to all platforms, and to enable cross-platform invites and communication across all platforms.

You've got an alternative in mind? The only I can think of, a 'Minecraft' account in place of a 'Microsoft account', would be literally the same thing, except without the pre-existing infrastructure and accounts that MC using an MS account enables (and without any hand-wringing over 'XBL')

If Microsoft is requesting a Xbox Live login for the new Minecraft update, then it's understandable why Sony might be hesitant to allow this. They clearly don't want to advertise for one of their primary competitors.

The suggestion in your second paragraph might be the best way to address this. Rebrand the login as a "Minecraft account", and remove any onscreen reference to"Xbox" branding. They can still use their existing infrastructure on the back end.

There's another complication here, which goes back to what you mentioned in your first paragraph. If the game allows you to purchase cross-platform downloadable content, then which online marketplace does it go through, and who collects the profits? This can open a whole Pandora's box of problems. Consider the following:

Would purchases be handled through PlayStation Store, or a (possibly rebranded) version of Xbox Live?

If the purchase is made on a PS4 console, then would Sony still see a share of the profits, or does it all go to Microsoft?

If the purchase is transacted elsewhere (e.g. an online Web site, a mobile phone, an Xbox One), and the DLC is used on the PS4, then could this be exploited as a vehicle to circumvent PS Store, and thus cut Sony out of any potential profit-sharing? (Imagine a scenario where Microsoft frequently offers "steep discounts" through email blasts, as long as you agree to buy directly from their online Web site.)

If Sony acquiesces to Microsoft's proposal, then could this blow the doors open for other publishers to request similar treatment? For example, I own Rocket League on both PS4 and Steam on my PC. I bought a few DLC packs for the game through the PS Store, but that DLC doesn't carry over to my game on Steam. Could Psyonix ask Sony to open the doors to cross-platform DLC...and if they did, would Valve get angry if I bought my DLC from Sony instead of going through Steam (or vice versa)? If I get a Switch and its version of the game in the future, could I keep buying DLC for that game through PSN and cut Nintendo out of the picture?

These are questions that may not be very easily answered.

 

[Iced Arcade]

They can't count PS4 players.

That's what this is all about.

They want to force XBL sign-ups for non-xbox gamers on PS4 to bump up their 'Monthly Active Users' numbers they talk about for Xbox Live.

'MAU's are a PR tactic they have switched to in lieu of using instead of using raw hardware sales numbers in their press releases since the PS4 began outselling the Xbox One.

Granted, Xbox live is a service, not a piece of hardware, but when their PR uses it as their measuring stick for sales it's not hard to see why the dominant company in the market wouldn't want to aid them in their PR messaging about how awesome their sales are.

It's a windows I.D. and they are not counted. They would be advertising they have billions if that was the case.

 

[vasametropolis]

There needs to be a central account/profile. In the Minecraft case it's a Microsoft account, with Rocket League it's probably a Psyonix account. The player information has to be stored somewhere and there can't be two copies of it getting out of sync.

 

[The Artisan]

It's a windows I.D. and they are not counted. They would be advertising they have billions if that was the case.

It's a windows ID? The OP says Switch is logging onto Xbox Live though

 

[Oersted]

with Rocket League it's probably a Psyonix account.

Such a thing does not exist

 

[The Artisan]

There needs to be a central account/profile. In the Minecraft case it's a Microsoft account, with Rocket League it's probably a Psyonix account. The player information has to be stored somewhere and there can't be two copies of it getting out of sync.

Crossplay in Rocket League is streamlined, there's no account or friendship system in the game. And even if there was, why would Sony have a problem with that? The argument here is the mS is sony's competitor, but Psyonix isn't

 

[vasametropolis]

Crossplay in Rocket League is streamlined, there's no account or friendship system in the game. And even if there was, why would Sony have a problem with that? The argument here is the mS is sony's competitor, but Psyonix isn't

The comment is on the side that Sony shouldn't have a problem with it. Psyonix may not explicitly have you make an account, but they definitely make you a profile. I think the core difference is if the profile is shared amongst platforms. In the Rocket League case it is not, but in the Minecraft case it could be, which would explain the account.

Such a thing does not exist

Ok, then profile. Not the same, but what I wrote just above might clear it up.

 

[Oersted]

Psyonix may not explicitly have you make an account,

Why bring them up if they don't?

Edit:

The comment is on the side that Sony shouldn't have a problem with it. Psyonix may not explicitly have you make an account, but they definitely make you a profile. I think the core difference is if the profile is shared amongst platforms. In the Rocket League case it is not, but in the Minecraft case it could be, which would explain the account.

Ok, then profile. Not the same, but what I wrote just above might clear it up.

Dude, Rocket League is already on PS4 and has cross play. What are you arguing about?

 

[vasametropolis]

Why bring them up if they don't?

Because how they link the data to you is relevant? This stuff is not rocket science they store the data somewhere.

 

[jviggy43]

Lmao this is hilarious. So do you have to pay for an xbox live sub and Nintendo online subscription to play minecraft online or am I misunderstanding that?

 

[Oersted]

Lmao this is hilarious. So do you have to pay for an xbox live sub and Nintendo online subscription to play minecraft online or am I misunderstanding that?

You do. Xbox Live is free, Xbox Live Gold is not. You don't need Gold on Switch, PC, iOS and Android.

 

[vasametropolis]

Wow some of you need to re-read my posts. Rocket League does not give you a cross platform profile, so an account would not be required for crossplay itself. Minecraft is clearly going to give you a cross platform account so of course you have to sign in for crossplay so you can have your data available anywhere.

Part of the confusion is when I said account, but really meant account/profile/whatever.

 

[Cerium]

Lmao this is hilarious. So do you have to pay for an xbox live sub and Nintendo online subscription to play minecraft online or am I misunderstanding that?

The thread title and OP should be updated to prevent this misunderstanding.

You only need the login, not a subscription.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

You do. Xbox Live is free, Xbox Live Gold is not. You don't need Gold on Switch, PC, iOS and Android.

You dont. you just need a microsoft account. Its like loggin into a Uplay account or EA account, or square enix account.

 

[Kayant]

Right but that's not a case of MS not allowing cross network play so it was a bizarre statement.

It kinda is because their cross-play requirements are stopping that from happening.

Ask Sony why. They are the reason in every single case.

In most cases is more correct thing to say. Also add Gwent to the list of affected games.

DC Universe Online/FFXIV are effected because of specific requirements for cross-play implementation that don't seem to go well with MMOs.
Tekken 7 is apparently both due to P2P being a no go on both?

Wow some of you need to re-read my posts. Rocket League does not give you a cross platform profile, so an account would not be required for crossplay itself. Minecraft is clearly going to give you a cross platform account so of course you have to sign in for crossplay so you can have your data available anywhere.

Part of the confusion is when I said account, but really meant account/profile/whatever.

Yes i see what your saying now and they do indeed have accounts for cross-play. PSYNET accounts.
https://twitter.com/rocketleague/status/627760853450817537?lang=en

This also extends to things like exclsuive car modes on each platform which is replaced by generic car models - http://rocketleague.wikia.com/wiki/Cross-platform_play

 

[Quotient]

If Microsoft is requesting a Xbox Live login for the new Minecraft update, then it's understandable why Sony might be hesitant to allow this. They clearly don't want to advertise for one of their primary competitors.

The suggestion in your second paragraph might be the best way to address this. Rebrand the login as a "Minecraft account", and remove any onscreen reference to"Xbox" branding. They can still use their existing infrastructure on the back end.

There's another complication here, which goes back to what you mentioned in your first paragraph. If the game allows you to purchase cross-platform downloadable content, then which online marketplace does it go through, and who collects the profits? This can open a whole Pandora's box of problems. Consider the following:

Would purchases be handled through PlayStation Store, or a (possibly rebranded) version of Xbox Live?

If the purchase is made on a PS4 console, then would Sony still see a share of the profits, or does it all go to Microsoft?

If the purchase is transacted elsewhere (e.g. an online Web site, a mobile phone, an Xbox One), and the DLC is used on the PS4, then could this be exploited as a vehicle to circumvent PS Store, and thus cut Sony out of any potential profit-sharing? (Imagine a scenario where Microsoft frequently offers "steep discounts" through email blasts, as long as you agree to buy directly from their online Web site.)

If Sony acquiesces to Microsoft's proposal, then could this blow the doors open for other publishers to request similar treatment? For example, I own Rocket League on both PS4 and Steam on my PC. I bought a few DLC packs for the game through the PS Store, but that DLC doesn't carry over to my game on Steam. Could Psyonix ask Sony to open the doors to cross-platform DLC...and if they did, would Valve get angry if I bought my DLC from Sony instead of going through Steam (or vice versa)? If I get a Switch and its version of the game in the future, could I keep buying DLC for that game through PSN and cut Nintendo out of the picture?

These are questions that may not be very easily answered.

You bring up some really interesting questions. I wonder how DLC is handled for Nintendo copy of the games.

 

[The Artisan]

The comment is on the side that Sony shouldn't have a problem with it. Psyonix may not explicitly have you make an account, but they definitely make you a profile. I think the core difference is if the profile is shared amongst platforms. In the Rocket League case it is not, but in the Minecraft case it could be, which would explain the account.

No they don't. The game has been out for 2 years on Ps4, it debuted with cross play with PC and it's streamlined into the game. No extra profiles.

 

[Nanashrew]

I have a Microsoft account just so I could get Microsoft Rewards. It's really not at all hard to have a Microsoft account and there's a good chance a majority of people here have one from just signing up with something of Microsoft's on PC.

 

[The Artisan]

I have a Microsoft account just so I could get Microsoft Rewards. It's really not at all hard to have a Microsoft account and there's a good chance a majority of people here have one from just signing up with something of Microsoft's on PC.

the OP says you need to log onto xbl though. Do you automatically have an xbl account just from signing up with a mS account?

 

[killer rin]

the OP says you need to log onto xbl though. Do you automatically have an xbl account just from signing up with a mS account?

No, you have a Microsoft Account. The database rows to make you an Xbox Live account likely aren't created until you choose your gamertag

 

[Nanashrew]

Yeah, what killer rin said. but it's a very, very easy process using your MS account to create your XBL account and gamertag.

 

[Synth]

Tekken 7 is apparently both due to P2P being a no go on both?

I don't think this is the case, and I doubt Harada has given crossplay any legitimate consideration based on the responses he's given... seeing as he's unwilling to even go the Street Fighter or Killer Instinct route of letting PC players match with one or either console (as Rocket League on PC does).

He's probably well aware that crossplay between Xbox and PlayStation isn't happening regardless... but I don't think p2p would be the cause, after all I'd imagine that something like Gwent will be connecting players via p2p once they've been matchmade.

EDIT: Hell, Minecraft is p2p in a lot of cases.

 

[Balfour]

were they the reason with FFXIV?

FFXIV is because way back when, Microsoft had different management and said they wanted Xbox only servers for the game on top of cross severs, so SE said no


its probably different now. They said they are in talks again with MS

 

[Kayant]

I don't think this is the case, and I doubt Harada has given crossplay any legitimate consideration based on the responses he's given... seeing as he's unwilling to even go the Street Fighter or Killer Instinct route of letting PC players match with one or either console (as Rocket League on PC does).

He's probably well aware that crossplay between Xbox and PlayStation isn't happening regardless... but I don't think p2p would be the cause, after all I'd imagine that something like Gwent will be connecting players via p2p once they've been matchmade.

EDIT: Hell, Minecraft is p2p in a lot of cases.

Yh I don't fully buy his "security" reasoning also especially given he first said Sony was the issue in the first place. Like you said it's likely a thing of wanting do fully or not.

 

[Synth]

FFXIV is because way back when, Microsoft had different management and said they wanted Xbox only servers for the game on top of cross severs, so SE said no


its probably different now. They said they are in talks again with MS

FFXIV was a different situation back then, because MS was just against the idea of crossplatform play.

There's still a hold-up now, because crossplatform play is required to be optional on Xbox. For an MMO, this would mean a separate Xbox server. If SquareEnix were willing to put up a separate server for Xbox players, then the game would have been ported ages ago.

 

[Balfour]

FFXIV was a different situation back then, because MS was just against the idea of crossplatform play.

There's still a hold-up now, because crossplatform play is required to be optional on Xbox. For an MMO, this would mean a separate Xbox server. If SquareEnix were willing to put up a separate server for Xbox players, then the game would have been ported ages ago.

they're not going to. either everyone plays together or they don't play at all with them for FFXIV

 

[Synth]

they're not going to. either everyone plays together or they don't play at all with them for FFXIV

Exactly, which is why the game didn't just release with Xbox players separate, in the way games like Phantasy Star Universe or DC Universe Online did.

 

[The Artisan]

Exactly, which is why the game didn't just release with Xbox players separate, in the way games like Phantasy Star Universe or DC Universe Online did.

or Minecraft for playstation in this case :\

 

[jviggy43]

You do. Xbox Live is free, Xbox Live Gold is not. You don't need Gold on Switch, PC, iOS and Android.

The thread title and OP should be updated to prevent this misunderstanding.

You only need the login, not a subscription.

Ah ok that makes way more sense now. Thank you fellow gaffers

 

[Syranth]

This was hyper aggressive of Microsoft. I can see why Sony doesn't want to comply. I know as gamers everyone thinks it's nothing but it's actually a big deal.

 

[Throwaway123456789]

For those who are defending this let me pose a question.

What is going to happen to the current version of Minecraft on PS4? Will Mojang and MS keep updating it well into the future? How many years does that version have left?

I dont think MS is going to cave to Sony on this. They have enough users on each platform to be fine. This isnt a game of chicken.

In the article linked in the OP, Mojang says there will be more resources put into maintaining the version on Win10/Xbox/Switch/Mobile (or just "Minecraft", if you want). Seems like the PS4 and the non-Win10 versions will be secondary.

 

[rokkerkory]

In the article linked in the OP, Mojang says there will be more resources put into maintaining the version on Win10/Xbox/Switch/Mobile (or just "Minecraft", if you want). Seems like the PS4 and the non-Win10 versions will be secondary.

See this is why its not good for ps gamers at all. Sony needs to do this right and making BS excuses by implying their players won't be 'safe' is just stupid coming from a company with a history of security issues.

 

[nekkid]

In the article linked in the OP, Mojang says there will be more resources put into maintaining the version on Win10/Xbox/Switch/Mobile (or just "Minecraft", if you want). Seems like the PS4 and the non-Win10 versions will be secondary.

So what will happen is when someone wants to buy a device for playing Minecraft, PS is the last place they'll go.

Considering how popular it is, that's reason enough for Sony to fold.

 

[dragonzdogma]

I got a free rocket league game for ps+ I'm not sure if it's the one being discussed here, I also watched my nephew's play mine cart.

I just don't get those two games.

I played rocket for like 5 minute and erased it, it was cars playing soccer?

Mine craft on the other hand reminds me of legos which I've never liked.

If that's what's been keeping gaf busy these day's I'm out of touch for sure.

 

[Synth]

I got a free rocket league game for ps+ I'm not sure if it's the one being discussed here, I also watched my nephew's play mine cart.

I just don't get those two games.

I played rocket for like 5 minute and erased it, it was cars playing soccer?

Mine craft on the other hand reminds me of legos which I've never liked.

If that's what's been keeping gaf busy these day's I'm out of touch for sure.

Yes, you are out of touch.

 

[leeh]

I got a free rocket league game for ps+ I'm not sure if it's the one being discussed here, I also watched my nephew's play mine cart.

I just don't get those two games.

I played rocket for like 5 minute and erased it, it was cars playing soccer?

Mine craft on the other hand reminds me of legos which I've never liked.

If that's what's been keeping gaf busy these day's I'm out of touch for sure.

Not GAF, but a large populous of the gaming community.

Can't believe youve never played one of them before.

Also, Rocket league isn't football (not bloody soccer), it's more like keep it up in the air and air dribble to your victory.

 

[dragonzdogma]

Not GAF, but a large populous of the gaming community.

Can't believe youve never played one of them before.

So the rocket league is not the one I had?
Trucks playing soccer?

 

[madmackem]

But then what's the excuse for Rocket League, which does cross platform play without requiring an Xbox Live login unlike Minecraft?

Sure, Minecraft requires an Xbox Live login on Switch, but that's the exception here since Minecraft is owned by Microsoft.

You can't pretend that Sony is against cross platform play because of Minecraft requiring XBL when other games don't have the same design.

We don't know the ins and outs of the rocket league situation what if ms was demanding something similar to what they want on minecraft? We don't know either way but ms is hungry for those maus so who knows what demands they had.

 

[madmackem]

So what will happen is when someone wants to buy a device for playing Minecraft, PS is the last place they'll go.

Considering how popular it is, that's reason enough for Sony to fold.

One game is the reason Sony should bow to ms demands? You don't know how the world works if you think that. Plus crossplay is only one element of minecraft it's not as if minecraft on ps will stop working,

 

[TheYanger]

We don't know the ins and outs of the rocket league situation what if ms was demanding something similar to what they want on minecraft? We don't know either way but ms is hungry for those maus so who knows what demands they had.

Oh come on, There's no 'we just have to flip a switch' if it somehow involves logging other consoles into Xbox Live, so pretending that that's even remotely a possibility is ridiculous.

 

[Caayn]

Totally see why Sony don't wont to be a part of this.

They already have login screens from other publishers. FFXIV for example requires you to sign-in with your Square Enix account if you even want to play the game.

 

[leeh]

So the rocket league is not the one I had?
Trucks playing soccer?

Yeah thats the one. If you want to see why its loved, I'd watch some pro's on twitch.

A genuine simple and fun game.

 

[Anion]

I got a free rocket league game for ps+ I'm not sure if it's the one being discussed here, I also watched my nephew's play mine cart.

I just don't get those two games.

I played rocket for like 5 minute and erased it, it was cars playing soccer?

Mine craft on the other hand reminds me of legos which I've never liked.

If that's what's been keeping gaf busy these day's I'm out of touch for sure.

I'm convinced people here generally dislike Minecraft and don't realize how popular it truly is

 

[nekkid]

I got a free rocket league game for ps+ I'm not sure if it's the one being discussed here, I also watched my nephew's play mine cart.

I just don't get those two games.

I played rocket for like 5 minute and erased it, it was cars playing soccer?

Mine craft on the other hand reminds me of legos which I've never liked.

If that's what's been keeping gaf busy these day's I'm out of touch for sure.

Opinion invalidated.

One game is the reason Sony should bow to ms demands? You don't know how the world works if you think that. Plus crossplay is only one element of minecraft it's not as if minecraft on ps will stop working,

No, but it will be the inferior version that people with the choice would avoid.

 

[madmackem]

See this is why its not good for ps gamers at all. Sony needs to do this right and making BS excuses by implying their players won't be 'safe' is just stupid coming from a company with a history of security issues.

This is exactly what people were worried about when ms bought minecraft, that they'd find away to leaverage it when minecraft has been a massive open platform. No leading company in a space is going to bow to a rival over something like this. If it means minecraft players being left behind then that's on ms not Sony.

 

[madmackem]

Oh come on, There's no 'we just have to flip a switch' if it somehow involves logging other consoles into Xbox Live, so pretending that that's even remotely a possibility is ridiculous.

We don't know what ms asked for though to do it, it's all well and good saying they can flip a switch but what if ms in turn asked for something. Ms played it a blinder pr wise at the time I said it they made themselves look the good guys without doing anything because they knew Sony wasn't going to jump at it as they had crossplay on rocket league with pc already. You really think they couldn't do minecraft crossplay without the need for people to sign into Xbox live, of course they could they are doing it for a reason.

 

[madmackem]

Opinion invalidated.



No, but it will be the inferior version that people with the choice would avoid.

Why is bad for ms really no? It isn't a Sony game and I very much doubt a console choice by many would be does this have minecraft crossplay on it.