Lister
Banned
It has been discussed. It has also been dismissed as not "Fair". Also where's the UHD blu ray drive? Huh? Where is it?! My preciiiioooouuus!
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PC World Struggles To Build PC for $500 to match XOX
- Thread starter godhandiscen
- Start date
It has been discussed. It has also been dismissed as not "Fair". Also where's the UHD blu ray drive? Huh? Where is it?! My preciiiioooouuus!
Why is it considered not "fair"?
The total cost of ownership should play an important role in someones purchase decision. It may cost $800 dollars to build a PC that is equivalent to the Xbox One, but you could make back that $300 over the course of a console generation life time in not having to pay for a Live subscription and the discounts found in steam/gog/etc sales.
Beer Monkey
Member
Conversely the cheapest way to play AAA titles on release is to buy physical media and sell the game upon completion. More savings for console owners.
Toadthemushroom
Member
It'll be impossible to match the form factor even if they did secure the right components. The Xbox One X, like a MacBook Air back in 2011, isn't going to be built with entirely off-the-shelf parts, but its engineering will be specialised in a way that they'll be able to cram all those parts into the chassis it has, while preventing the inside from getting dangerously toasty in operation.
Basically, the PC industry - particularly the self-building segment of it - isn't set up to build a box like the Xbox One X, at the price it's going for.
Basically, the PC industry - particularly the self-building segment of it - isn't set up to build a box like the Xbox One X, at the price it's going for.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
not really. can you run Quake 3 on XBOX at 500+fps with mouse+kb? again, pc is not only performance for multiplataform games...
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
and less money for the devs. support the devs. dont buy used games. buy directly from the devs
Or buy them before launch on CDKeys for $30 and keep them forever.
Lister
Banned
Yeah, form factor would be hard to match. Although come November, new cases will be out and existing small form factor cases will be cheaper, so again, clsoer. Not sure what that has to do with gaming performance though, which is what this thread is about.
Yep. Said it myself a while back in the thread too. We really nee dot wait for the release of this thign to declare anything.
Not have to pay for Live sure, but there are a lot of Xbox sales throughout the year, and the prices are pretty, close to steam sale levels.
While I don't necessarily agree with the person you are responding to, I don't understand how your post is a valid response. What does KB/Mouse have anything to do with price/performance? How does running a 20 year old game at a ridiculously high frame rate impact the price/performance of an Xbox vs a PC?
I'd be interested in seeing this build at $600. Tough to believe I could get one with the specs you listed, with board, case, license, drive, kb/mouse or controller, etc for $600.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
1. The whole point is to build a console replacement targeting 4K/30fps. This should include: Win10, mini-itx case, quality PSU, mobo, CPU, GPU, RAM, HDD, optical drive, quality KB/M or cheap KB/M and nice gamepad, and hdmi cable.
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2. You're fluffing your build cost by: 1. Excluding Windows 2. Excluding KB/M 3. Excluding gamepad 4. $15 firehazard PSU 5. Excluding optical drive 6. Big honker ATX case 7. No HDMI cable
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3. A baseline build estimate looks like: $40 Case, $30 PSU, $50 Mobo, $45 RAM, $45 HDD, $45 BD drive, $20 KB/M, $50 gamepad+receiver, $90 Win10, $5 hdmi.
TOTAL = $420
That leaves CPU and GPU budget of $80 for a $500 build, or $180 for a $600 build. We know GTX 1060/RX 580 run ~$250 and an i3 starts around $120. That's at least $350 even with $20 MiR.
Putting us at:
$770 for i3+GTX 1060 or RX 580
$840 for i5+GTX 1060 or RX 580
$920 for i3+GTX 1070
$990 for i5+GTX 1070
This is mini-itx. The best deal on big honker ATX case build is ASUS prebuilt for $950 with i5/GTX 1070. Let's just be honest that right now, it's about $900 to beat the X1X without accounting for UHD Blu-Ray.
Do a build list on pcpartpicker or newegg with all the requisite components and post it here I'm curious to see what you end up with.
Thats a Greay Area
Member
and less money for the devs. support the devs. dont buy used games. buy directly from the devs
Hmmm...many of the cheaper solutions for games presented here do not go to the devs. The $10 version of Windows 10, the deals from CD keys etc.
There was a time last gen when a game would launch on PC and be $49.99 vs. $59.99 on console, that's not the case any longer. Many games are on sale on PS/XB digital stores before Steam - Neir Automata is a recent example - Or publishers run sales across all platforms with similar discounts.
There are deals to be had on all platforms, and w/ major retailers supporting discounts/rebates on new console games be it physical or digital it's often cheaper to get AAA games day one from the likes of Amazon or Bestbuy vs. Steam.
I don't think the "savings" of PC gaming is as great a delta as it was in years past. Assuming you're not going gray market.
To be honest, none of these 'can you build a PC like the Xbox' threads have anything to do with being fair. We can debate all day and night about the benefits of one over the other. PCs can do other things, are more flexible, don't have to pay to game online, etc. Consoles are easier to use, don't have to fiddle with drivers, shared ecosystem/control scheme for everyone you are playing with, etc. But that ISN'T what these threads are doing.
These threads aim to answer 1 simple question: Can you match the power of an Xbox One X on a PC for $500 or less. Obviously there are benefits of one over the other, but these are very narrow comparisons. That is why you can't exclude windows license, optical drives, input device, etc because we are comparing hardware.
The cost of Xbox Live, the value of the Games with Gold games, etc are all irrelevant to this type of comparison. It's a different debate entirely.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
again, because when you buy a pc, you dont buy just performance? i find funny people ignoring all the innumerous other gaming vantages besides "only performance".
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I am the first one to point out consoles format benefit to consumers, but it is not fair to compare what you can build now to what Xbox One X will provide several months from now. The same kind of articles which one year out were unfairly calling PS4 Pro a disappointing half step by comparison (to a trailer of something coming a year later) are now talking down PC parts value months before the console is out (and knowing how prices fall in the PC space).
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
The takeaway isn't that the XBX will replace a similarly priced PC. The feature sets aren't interchangeable. It's that MS actually made a decent console for the price this time around.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
P.S.- Prices on the RX 480/580 and GTX 1060 have gone up since last year thanks to ethereum, they're currently sold-out, and there's no guarantee of a drop on those cards by later this year. The "can/will get for $150" people are dreaming.
If this thread was "compare the advantages of both of vs Xbox I'd agree with you" but it's not. It's "can you build a PC as powerful as an Xbox x". Cool, a PC can run excel and an Xbox cant. Has nothing to do with this thread.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Can't speak for American pricing, but in Australia, you'd have no chance of getting anywhere close to it.
The AMD 580 would be at least $400-$500. That's with an 8GB version. Not even sure a 12 exists.
The UHD Bluray drive would cost at least a couple of hundred.
So you've already passed the $649 retail price of the Xbox One X in Australia with only 2 parts.
The AMD 580 would be at least $400-$500. That's with an 8GB version. Not even sure a 12 exists.
The UHD Bluray drive would cost at least a couple of hundred.
So you've already passed the $649 retail price of the Xbox One X in Australia with only 2 parts.
coughlanio
Member
Only way to probably do it right now is with used parts. Can probably pick up an Ivy Bridge i5 system from an office surplus store for about $100 these days. Throw in a GTX 1070 as long as the PSU can handle it, and that should get you comparable real world performance.
coughlanio
Member
Both are readily available here in Japan, but for MSRP, not $150.
Either we are comparing hardware or we are comparing hardware and software.
Several of these points don't really matter that much or at all.
It's a safe bet that one might already have a KB/M that can be used in the build, and one might already have a gamepad. Optical drives are fast becoming obsolete, and personally I go months without using mine. An HDMI cable costs $2 and a shop up the road from me. Alternatively, one might already have several spare HDMI cables.
Beer Monkey
Member
and less money for the devs. support the devs. dont buy used games. buy directly from the devs
The money I get from selling games goes to buying more games than I could otherwise. Support for more devs.
Phatosaurus
Member
Eh, I could slap a a cheaper GTX 1070 in my PC from 2012 with a i5 2320 and get true 4K 30FPS if I really wanted it for less than £450.
Guess that'd be a unfair price comparison though?
Guess that'd be a unfair price comparison though?
You have to build an entire system. It's the point of the thread.
We all know we can upgrade our systems...well...it would be a downgrade for me with those parts...but anyway..
Also, the target needs to be 4k/60 in games like Forza Motorsport.
n0razi
Member
Here's something I threw together in about 30 seconds, its missing OS and KB/mouse but you can get a builders OS license for around $40 and KB/mouse runs $20 for a basic setup. Its already under $600 and thats without any sales/discounts (I have seen the i3 go for under $100 and the GTX 1060 for around $200 at palces like MicroCenter)
The point is that something like this will easily outpace the XOX and will certainly be much cheaper around November when the XOX is actually out for sale.
Here's something I threw together in about 30 seconds, its missing OS and KB/mouse but you can get a builders OS license for around $40 and KB/mouse runs $20 for a basic setup. Its already under $600 and thats without any sales/discounts (I have seen the i3 go for under $100 and the GTX 1060 for around $200 at palces like MicroCenter)
The point is that something like this will easily outpace the XOX and will certainly be much cheaper around November when the XOX is actually out for sale.
You think a 1060 (3GB?!) and an i3 will get 4k/60 on High/Ultra settings in Forza 7 at 4k?
As a PC gamer...I have my doubts, and Motorsport tends to be well optimized.
🤔
n0razi
Member
You think the XOX is running it at Ultra settings? Im sure even a Skylake Pentium ($50) will run circles around the Jaguar in the XOX
Barring the 1060/i3 ridiculousness^, I think you guys are seriously underrating the presentation factor. The form factor and out-of-the-box OS and effortless optimization is worthwhile to quite a lot of gamers. It's at least half the value in the $500 price tag.
Not everyone enjoys the enthusiast aspects of PC building.
Not everyone enjoys the enthusiast aspects of PC building.
I'm not sure your build would run it at 4k/60 locked on high/med.
It takes a 1070 to get close to 4k/60 in Forza 6...and it doesn't stay there when weather and 23 cars are on the track.
ss_lemonade
Member
Can the same be said when people argue that one must include a TV when considering console costs? I see that a lot when the opposite side says that you must include a PC monitor, which I believe most starting from scratch wouldn't even have in the first place (unlike TVs?).
Is a 1060 really that much more capable ("easily outpace") than what's in the Xbox One X? I was under the impression that the XOX would deliver something closer to a 1070 in performance, which is quite a bit faster than the 1060.
Liliana Eileen
Member
Agreed. People are trying so hard to make a PC for the same value but the truth is that the XBX is an amazing deal for $499, and come November people are going to see it for themselves.
n0razi
Member
I was under the impression that the 1060 would meet or beat the XOX but hell even a 1070 runs about $300 these days and will be closer to $250 by November and that would still be within budget.
I was under the impression it was using a 580. Is there a article/video that touches on the subject I haven't been paying attention to the specs.
ss_lemonade
Member
I haven't been following these new GPUs recently but are there newer GPUs coming out at the end of the year that would cause something like a 1070 to drop that low? A 1070 for 250 sounds like insane value
Kssio_Aug
Member
They're probably talking about this article:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...pio-is-console-hardware-pushed-to-a-new-level
I would wait before any further conclusion though. If Xbox One X indeed is as good as an GTX 1070 set up that's gonna be pretty amazing, but we will see.
Is 3gb of video mem enough for 4k textures? What do 4k games generally use these days?
No the 3GB version is not sufficient.
I can't even max out Rainbow Six Siege on the 1060 3GB.
Are we sure it's native 4k and not checkerboard-ed? I was planning on getting a base model after the X launched due to price drops but I might go the X instead.
Wonder if this will affect BC games if they don't already get constant 60 frames.
Here's something I threw together in about 30 seconds, its missing OS and KB/mouse but you can get a builders OS license for around $40 and KB/mouse runs $20 for a basic setup. Its already under $600 and thats without any sales/discounts (I have seen the i3 go for under $100 and the GTX 1060 for around $200 at palces like MicroCenter)
The point is that something like this will easily outpace the XOX and will certainly be much cheaper around November when the XOX is actually out for sale.
This build is over $500, missing a harddrive, optical drive, windows license and input device (kB/mouse or controller). On top of that many argue it isn't as powerful. Also it needs to be built. So what did this prove?
Well he isn't shopping for parts on newegg.
icecold1983
Member
Do people really think a 1060 3gb will easily outpace xboxx??? What planet is this
He didn't say they aren't selling it at a loss, though. This is the full quote:
"No," Xbox leader Phil Spencer told me in an interview this week, after I asked him if Microsoft makes any money selling the Xbox One X at $500.
"So, you're taking a loss?" I said. "I didn't answer it that way," he responded, intentionally not offering more detail.
"I don't want to get into all the numbers, but in aggregate you should think about the hardware part of the console business is not the money-making part of the business. The money-making part is in selling games."
He completely avoided saying whether they are taking a loss. Why wouldn't he have just answered with a"no", if they are breaking even?
"I didn't answer it that way" does not scream "we aren't taking a loss".
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