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"PS4 is like a 5 years old PC and its really holding developers back"
- Thread starter Vipu
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Console almost always hold back pcs, but the positive side is that we can have much better performance meaning better gameplay/resolution/eyecandy...
OriginalPoe
Banned
...Engadget? They've been around for probably 10+ years...
The PS4's moderate specifications allowed a price point that 60 million consumers could purchase creating a huge market for game developers to target. If a developer wants to push the envelop, they can target the limited base of high end CPU and GPU systems. It just likely won't be that economically viable.
Plenty of them with better graphics.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
first, console only gamers should be thankful there are a healthy pc comunity, because without pc hardware (from AMD) and software (OpenGL, DX, Zbrush, UDK, etc) there are no consoles and console games
I guess I'm just curious what unique games I would be playing in a world without "PS4 holding us back" and from the examples I'm seeing I'm looking at games that primarily use keyboard+mouse and VR games. Power certainly plays a part in the latter but not the former.
SmoothRunningGun
Member
I'm playing horizon zd thinking there's plenty of power for talented devs. Even if you were to develop for pcs you have to account for all those crappy $500 pcs people think it's a good idea to build.
Raven117
Member
This.
Hell, CDProjektRed said that witcher 3 could not exist in its current form without consolidation because it would not have economically made sense just in PC.
nycgamer4ever
Member
That's a fair point. I always wonder what games CAN look like without any restrictions but I feel like that is more of hampered by other variables, such as budget, team size, tech. I don't believe there is a game like the first Crysis at it's release, where the game cannot not run well on the highest end hardware.
nycgamer4ever
Member
Name those games and we can have a discussion.
Kssio_Aug
Member
I mean, that was always the case, and will ever be while console exists.
But this is not a bad thing and also it helps with a little balance. Is a much stronger hardware really needed nowadays? I don't think so.
Devs could do some games with better AI, yet, we mostly have the same dumb AI as ever in every game. FEAR, a 12 years old game, still shits on any AI we have nowadays.
We have ugly games running at 30fps. We have some VERY good looking games, but they're not the norm. That said, I feel like most devs don't really use everything consoles have to offer.
If we upgrade it too much, the console gets much more expensive, the games gets much more havier... 120 GB is a thing already, soon we will need 5TB hard drives to keep a good amount of games without unninstalling them all the time. Internet connection is not evolving this fast around the globe either, data cap and slow internet connections all over the world.
Do we really need much stronger hardware right now?? Would that even be a good idea?
But this is not a bad thing and also it helps with a little balance. Is a much stronger hardware really needed nowadays? I don't think so.
Devs could do some games with better AI, yet, we mostly have the same dumb AI as ever in every game. FEAR, a 12 years old game, still shits on any AI we have nowadays.
We have ugly games running at 30fps. We have some VERY good looking games, but they're not the norm. That said, I feel like most devs don't really use everything consoles have to offer.
If we upgrade it too much, the console gets much more expensive, the games gets much more havier... 120 GB is a thing already, soon we will need 5TB hard drives to keep a good amount of games without unninstalling them all the time. Internet connection is not evolving this fast around the globe either, data cap and slow internet connections all over the world.
Do we really need much stronger hardware right now?? Would that even be a good idea?
Come on man... People have made Skyrim on PC look better than Uncharted 4. (No disrespect to Uncharted 4, its an amazing game)
This whole argument is stupid.
jim2point0
Banned
It's been said so many times in this thread but there is a reason why you don't\rarely ever see that. Most PC games are multiplats. The exclusives on PC are usually indie games or otherwise just not very graphically impressive because those devs don't have Sony first party developer budgets.
Multiplatform developers need to target the console spec in order to reach the largest audience. Those games will still look better on PC because the settings can go higher but that's it.
Stiler
Member
Really? I want you to show me any mod that makes character models anywhere close to uncharted levels...
Jean Valjean
Member
This.
How do you compare Witcher 3 running at 4K60 with Max settings to Uncharted? Each studio has different priorities, different teams with different levels of talent, different budgets, demands, etc.
I can see comparing different games in a series (Uncharted 1 to Uncharted 2 for example) but comparing two different games is pointless and impossible for a number of reasons.
I don't think he was singling out any platform, it just sounds like the PS4 was there it's what he pointed to. He's talking about consoles, not the PS4 specifically.
A Way Out isn't exactly pushing the limits here. You can also just make the game PC only.
You can't both have the console player base and not deal with console specs. Consoles will always be weaker than PC and even in the case of Scorpio devs have to make sure their game supports the OG One.
You can't both have the console player base and not deal with console specs. Consoles will always be weaker than PC and even in the case of Scorpio devs have to make sure their game supports the OG One.
In terms of CPU the PS4 is the weakest
1.6 Ghz - PS4
1.75 Ghz - XB1
2.1 Ghz - PS4 Pro
2.3 Ghz - Xbox One X
SomedayTheFire
Member
My dude, don't do this
Why do people always ignore the fact low - mid end PCs hold high end PC back just as much as consoles do?
I think the fact the high end PC guys can get full 4K and 60+ FPS, with better visuals is by far the best for everyone. Like how many people would buy a game that even the highest end PCs can't even run at a solid 30?
I think the fact the high end PC guys can get full 4K and 60+ FPS, with better visuals is by far the best for everyone. Like how many people would buy a game that even the highest end PCs can't even run at a solid 30?
Kssio_Aug
Member
Really? I want you to show me any mod that makes character models anywhere close to uncharted levels...
This is a real time cutscene, the in-game model is not that high quality. Also a game is not made only of character model. Uncharted 4 looks really, really, really good, and it's amazing art direction helps making it looks even better. But stop if you think that's the most technical amazing game currently.
GameCenterXDS
Member
Don't care. Japan developers, who are my personal favorite, are just starting to get in a groove with ps4 and upcoming MH world is going to be big. I don't want to see PS4 go anywhere for awhile.
Zombie James
Banned
Aren't they doing a version for the original Xbone? You'd think the 1.31TF machine would be holding the industry back more than the 1.84TF machine. What a weird quote.
SomedayTheFire
Member
For real? I thought the Xbox One was 1.6 and the One S 1.75. I must be mistaken.
Now imagine if Horizon had double the amount of robots on screen due to a better CPU, and no invisible walls for Aloy to get stuck on trying to find the path to climb up things. Imagine getting attacked by 3 Stormbirds or Thunderjaws at once. Imagine Aloy's animations recalibrating more often to create a smoother gameplay experience. Imagine better draw distances and particle effects.
Horizon is a great game, but it would be even better if Gurella Games had access to a more powerful CPU
Sad Affleck
Member
OléGunner;241336266 said:
We won't know if it's an anomaly until someone else tries it, which I don't see happening. Big publishers are set in their ways and they will not risk anything like that.
nycgamer4ever
Member
I don't think it's consoles holding PC development back. It's more budget and risk reward factor. How much should you spend on a game to look and run great without risks of not making the money back. In many cases it's the consoles sales that enable the developers to reach for a higher quality game on pc, the latest case in point is a statement by the Witcher 3 Developer.
Any developer who really want to max out the pc specs can but many times it just doesn't make financial sense.
Skyrim with mods looks stunning. But the advantage of Sony's first party games is a distinct level of polish. There's no jankiness anywhere to be seen, just perfectly rendered character models and stunningly smooth animations. Sure they might not be 60fps but they are more than a sum of their parts.
And this is also why Nintendo games manage to looked so good despite Switch. The level of polish and art makes them really stand above the hardware they're running on.
But the point to all this is that if Sony and Nintendo can elevate their games to that level on their ageing hardware specification, then it's not really worth arguing that hardware is also holding games back. Only imagination is holding developers back.
Nope, CPU wasn't touched for the S.
The GPU however received a minor upclock:
XB1 - 853Mhz
XB1 S - 911Mhz
ESRAM bandwidth increased to 218GB/s
Making the XB1 S a 1.4tf machine, over the XB1 OG's 1.3tf
Console games don't have the highest technical achievements in graphics department, but I've yet to see game as good looking as UC4 on pc. And no, skyrim with it's mods has not been made to look better, or even as good looking yet. I'm talking about how the games look as a whole. In skyrim you can have like 12k textures yet they won't make the game look better than UC4 on PS4. Yes the tech is more impressive on PC side but without console game AAA budgets to leverage said tech the games won't really surpass the top tier console games in anything except image quality and FPS.
Now if you took UC4 style budgets (and talent) and funneled them into a PC game targeting mid to mid-high tier PCs then you would have some unbelievable looking games that would no doubt leave the current crop of console games into dust, but as it is, this is not the reality. Star Citizen has the money and is targeted at high tier PCs and looks fricking amazing technically, but it still doesn't come together as a whole in a way that would blow my mind. It has singular elements that are mind blowing when examined in isolation though.
Now if you took UC4 style budgets (and talent) and funneled them into a PC game targeting mid to mid-high tier PCs then you would have some unbelievable looking games that would no doubt leave the current crop of console games into dust, but as it is, this is not the reality. Star Citizen has the money and is targeted at high tier PCs and looks fricking amazing technically, but it still doesn't come together as a whole in a way that would blow my mind. It has singular elements that are mind blowing when examined in isolation though.
mario_O
Member
going from 1.6 to 1.7, or 2.1 to 2.3 isn't going to make any real difference. Maybe squeeze 1-2 fps here and there...
Really? I want you to show me any mod that makes character models anywhere close to uncharted levels...
Uncharted is impressive looking, but what you posted was a cutscene. In-game, the foliage along with everything else does not compare to some of the mods for Skyrim. No sense in even pretending otherwise.
Sad Affleck
Member
In this particular case context is very important. CD Projekt was defending the game's obvious graphical downgrade compared to earlier trailers and game footage. They had to say something to justify it. I have no doubt that bigger potential sales encourage a bigger investment into a title but let's not forget that The Witcher 2 was a PC exclusive for a long time and it was an extremely high quality RPG that was also way ahead of anything seen on console technologically.
NullPointer
Member
What exactly is it holding them back from?
Are we talking better AI, more destruction, new gameplay systems? Or just new shiny?
Are we talking better AI, more destruction, new gameplay systems? Or just new shiny?
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Reading that article, that quote comes sooooooo out of nowhere.
Wouldn't the Xbox One be holding them back that little bit further?
Wouldn't the Xbox One be holding them back that little bit further?
SenjutsuSage
Banned
I think a lot of times people mistake raw power, thus running all kinds of bells and whistles as more "impressive," but it doesn't work that way. I've seen games running way less technical features than some PC titles and still looked way better in my eyes.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Awesome.
Kssio_Aug
Member
I think Doom and Witcher 3 at the highest settings on PC looks far better than Uncharted 4. Not saying Uncharted 4 isn't a hell of a good looking game though.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
MS upped the CPU clock at the last moment, a bit like how Sony pulled the 8GB at the last moment, only the former happened even later in the xbox cycle, IIRC.
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