Diddy Kong
Banned
I mean, you could pretty much say this about any 5+ year old console and it would apply..
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"PS4 is like a 5 years old PC and its really holding developers back"
- Thread starter Vipu
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boneyjangles
Member
Haha yeah, "This is like a five-year-old PC", no shit.
NullPointer
Member
I'd like to believe that, but then we get new consoles with more power and that's mostly put to new shiny. Which is why this kind of plea falls on deaf ears for me.
Show me what you're trying to do but can't do, and that actually advances gameplay and I'll sympathize.
Mr. Giggles
Member
Just finished reading the article and outside of the horrible writing, isn't this an age old complaint devs have.
Just develop for PC, it's why they're there
Just develop for PC, it's why they're there
Who the hell doesn't know that the PS4 is a 5 years old PC?
People can live without new shiny graphics you know? No one is living in some bizarro alternate reality where they think the PS4 is a high end machine, it's just that people don't mind staying with the hardware they bought 3-4 years ago, especially when we can create good looking realistic games on top of very stilized, timeless artstyles (nah who cares about that, 4K textures lolll gritty). Not to mention dev times are increasing to the point where 2+ years is the bare minimum for AAA.
Why tf do you want a new generation? To have some cross-gen nightmare? To wait 3 more years for titles to start releasing?
Go vent your CBD on clothes or iPhones, stop asking for something that will not benefit anyone except for selfish people who just wanna buy new shiny plastic to shelve them and go on internet forums claiming that "I'm bored of my new shiny plastic".
People can live without new shiny graphics you know? No one is living in some bizarro alternate reality where they think the PS4 is a high end machine, it's just that people don't mind staying with the hardware they bought 3-4 years ago, especially when we can create good looking realistic games on top of very stilized, timeless artstyles (nah who cares about that, 4K textures lolll gritty). Not to mention dev times are increasing to the point where 2+ years is the bare minimum for AAA.
Why tf do you want a new generation? To have some cross-gen nightmare? To wait 3 more years for titles to start releasing?
Go vent your CBD on clothes or iPhones, stop asking for something that will not benefit anyone except for selfish people who just wanna buy new shiny plastic to shelve them and go on internet forums claiming that "I'm bored of my new shiny plastic".
Fredrik
Member
Of course. If people don't get what he's saying then what's the talk about when PS5 will arrive all about? If nothing is holding games back on PS4 then why do we need PS5?
He's seriously 100% right and everybody here should know that by now, otherwise I don't get what 50% of the discussions at this place is all about. Graphics, framerates, details, physics, AI, world sizes, the amount of characters on screen, world and character/cloth destruction etc etc. Everything could get better with better hardware.
And, I mean, I actually thought he was kind of nice to say that PS4 is like a 5 year old PC. 4 years ago I bought my first gaming PC, with a 780ti GPU and i7 4Ghz CPU. I don't think I need to explain that PS4 didn't even come close to matching that.
My point was that such comparisons are pretty pointless when looking at the games as a whole. Witcher will some things better while Horizon will do other things better. I too think that Horizon looks great, but that speaks more about the resources and talent of the studio and not about the hardware itself.
T.Slothrop
Member
I feel the same way. And to some extent they're proving they may not even need it.
For me, this generation is the first where I'm feeling the diminishing returns of performance increases. Zelda is a great example. Aging hardware managed to give me one of the best open world game experiences I've had in a very long time.
I'm going to need to see a real showstopper on the PC that convinces me the aging PS4 is a roadblock to my gaming experiences.
boneyjangles
Member
Ah, the imaginary world were consoles don't exist, and people are forced to play on PC's... Universally worse for the consumer and the industry.
Just look at the vast swathes of the world were console gaming isn't really a thing - we aren't getting inundated with endless quality titles from these promised lands. It's mostly just the odd MMORPG or pay to win crap not that dissimilar to mobile games.
Fact is consoles don't hold back gaming at all, if anything they bring it up and push it forward each generation by providing a really solid baseline. They bring in a larger player base, and much more money.
Aztechnology
Member
Oh you mean further foolproofing the process. By say having risers on components on the main board allowing what would essentially be building block PC. Which it already largely is. But basically instead of putting a GPU into a PCI-E slot. You'd have a box that you snap off/snap in that would basically just have the GPU inside for instance. I mean I get it, it's just wildly unecessary considering how easy it is to replace PC parts nowadays. I mean it's basically the tiniest step off of that right now. When people liken it to a adult Lego's they really aren't joking. You can find a two minute YouTube video on swapping out any part of a computer and it's really simple.
I guess there could be something to be said for a more limited scope of upgrade paths, so when they snap in the consoles OS automatically is able to determine the card and find updates. But Nvidia Experience and AMD Catalyst already do that too. So once again it's finding a solution where there isn't a large problem.
Fredrik
Member
Yeah Horizon ZD is an impressive game for sure, but put the same team with a 1080ti targeting 30fps and it'll obviously be a much more impressive game. When comparing console games with PC games people tend to forget that PC games usually run at least twice as fast. I'm running Forza Horizon 3 at three 1080p screens (6000x1080) at 60-70 fps. It runs at 30fps at 1080p (1920x1080) on XB1. If the devs targeted 30fps on PC too they could obviously make it look even better
Lister
Banned
This is just utterly ignorant.
Aztechnology
Member
Sure but what it comes down to is the market and clout. Generally PC is very misunderstood by the general consumer, even maligned. GAF is a pretty good example of that. It always amazes me just how jaded people here are when they have little to no understanding of it, and don't seem to care to learn in any shape or form, because they grew up with something different. It's the irony of closemindedness in a community that prizes themselves on being open-minded.
Only being open minded when you feel like it, isn't being open minded at all.
-Amon-
Member
This is interesting. Not sharing an opinion = closemindess.
You sound like a blonde aired king talking to paesants.
Where did I saw that before ?
Lister
Banned
A ha! Now're we're getting to the bototm fo this.
AMD's CPU is what's holding us back. And who own's AMD? A bunch of investors, many of whom are probably asian! And who are these asian investors? Probably just rich business people, but some might be puppets for the North Korean Regime!
Kim-Jong-Un is holding back gaming people! Open your eyes!
Aztechnology
Member
It's definitely holding back Framerates. The PS4 and XboneX GPU's are actually very solid. The CPU just completely hamstrings their capabilities. It's a shame considering an Intel G4560 at $60 or a dual core I3 (for cost effectiveness) or now the new Ryzen CPU's absolutely just blow it out of the water at a respectable price. They really brought these devices into the market a bit too early if they couldn't get the CPU situation sorted before hand. Maybe they were worried there would be just too large of a performance gap and not leave as much for the new generation of consoles later. I don't know.
But the game wouldn't exist at all in that alternate universe. You need to develop a console at a price point that most people can afford to build an install base large enough to justify the tens of millions of dollars it would have cost to develop Horizon.
It's nice to want things, but gamers with a 1080TI are a niche within a niche that is not nearly large enough to recover the costs of development. There's a reason why you don't really see any graphically intensive PC exclusive games with the exception of perhaps Star Citizen (and even then that's because it's crowd funded to an extreme degree and set in space).
If this developer really cared that much about performance by all means go ahead and make the most graphically intensive game for the PC only. Who is forcing him to hold the game back by putting it on PS4? But of course he won't because that would be financial suicide.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Well uh, no one is forcing anyone to develop for PS4. Any developer unwilling to be 'held back' by it can just develop the most powerful game ever for the PC if they want to.
JordanN
Banned
Lets pretend PS4 is holding back PC.
What changes? Games aren't going be made faster. Prices will likely remain the same. AAA Publishers continue to AAA. But you get marginally prettier visuals though, so yay?!?!
I trust the company that's been making consoles since 1994 and continues to enjoy overwhelming success because of it to know what's best for the industry.
What changes? Games aren't going be made faster. Prices will likely remain the same. AAA Publishers continue to AAA. But you get marginally prettier visuals though, so yay?!?!
I trust the company that's been making consoles since 1994 and continues to enjoy overwhelming success because of it to know what's best for the industry.
Aztechnology
Member
Not sharing an opinion = closemindedness? I'm confused where I stated something like that.
It's the same if you're a PC exclusive game who refuses to touch or aknowledge the merits and potential of consoles. I'm just saying being close minded and refusing to approach or learn about new things is a bad attitude to have.
Assumably for most people it's the move to better performance actually. Going to 60fps has been a big and great push for the industry. It won't be that long until our TV's are able to accept native 120hz signals too. Some higher end TV's already do. And with tihings like adaptive sync, the benefits for pushing frames continue. I think a lot of people may not care about getting more than 30fps. But Alot of enthusiasts do, and enthusiasts play a large part on promoting and shaping the future. They're the trend setters.
Lister
Banned
Well, at the very least you could be freed from the terrible CPU limitaitons of consoles, you just need to build some level of GPU scalability in the game, like eveyr game ever on PC or that was meant to be put on multiple platforms.
You don't need to target the million or more 1080 owners out there. You could instead target a game to a 1070, have it scale well to a 1050ti (or equivalent) and scale up to a 1080ti. and cover a massive market place, larger than any single console.
Of course the question then becomes how to reach that market with your game, etc. as usual.
icecold1983
Member
Nope. Theres exactly 1 pc game with tech better than the best console games, and that game may not ever even release
Kaiser Swayze
Member
Wait, this $200 console that came out 3 years isn't as powerful as a 2017 PC?! Say it ain't so, Mr. Dev Guy! Oh well, back to being amazed by Horizon.
-Amon-
Member
It looks like I've read too much in your first post, and completely misunderstood it.
Apologies.
Shadax the wizard
Member
Like, sure. However, it doesn't matter one bit when consoles provide experiences I can't have on PC.
It also cuts them off from tens of millions of users.
Aztechnology
Member
Well considering engines aren't typically written to be used on a single platform. I'm not sure what you're trying to say. There's some pretty big differences still in terms of potential and performance.
Lister
Banned
And, as it happens a hell of a lot more often, when PC has experiences you can't have on consoles.
They have been, for multiple generations now. You just have new generations of gamers with each cycle and the hardcore graphics gamers who can never let it go.
Seems like the real problem is high-end PC gaming not attracting enough players then.
I do think console cpu's are very anemic, but they talk as if everybody with PC's upgrade their gear every two years or something. If there were no console business and people with similar budgets had to buy PC's (and consoles still provide a nice bang per buck), he'd still need to cater to pc's from 5 years if he wanted to sell games to a wider audience).
Shadax the wizard
Member
Absolutely. Exclusives are quite the draw, aren't they?
I agree.
Even Persona 5 is one of the best looking and playing games out now ,and its built on PS3 tech.
It far exceeds FFXV,a game that boasted far more advanced tech in every aspect.
Lister
Banned
But in terms of CPU power even 5 year old PC's would compare favorably. That's the issue. You're right in terms of GPU's though.
Aztechnology
Member
I think one of the problems when you look at closely, is that a PC built five years ago, likely had a CPU that is still markedly better than the console CPU's which are just being released five years later. The only excuse really is keeping costs down, but considering how much it's holding the newest lines back I'm not sure it was a good choice at all. We also know for instance they held back HDR Blu-ray payers from PS4 because it would add $8 to manufacturing and they felt it wouldn't be worth it for consumers. So maybe a better CPU, like an I3 or G4560 for instance only would have cost them an extra say $20. But they decided for their consumers it was an unnecessary expense.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
This guy is full of crap. PS4 isn't holding anything back.
It's not like PC exclusives don't exist and I haven't seen anything on the PC exclusive front to suggest PS4 is way behind and holding PC back. Sounds like PCMR bullshit and that's sad coming from a dev. I own a high-end rig and a PS4 Pro and I never feel like I'm going back in time when I play games on my Pro. The graphics on my PC are obviously better but other than that I feel like I'm still getting a quality experience on the PS4.
It's not like PC exclusives don't exist and I haven't seen anything on the PC exclusive front to suggest PS4 is way behind and holding PC back. Sounds like PCMR bullshit and that's sad coming from a dev. I own a high-end rig and a PS4 Pro and I never feel like I'm going back in time when I play games on my Pro. The graphics on my PC are obviously better but other than that I feel like I'm still getting a quality experience on the PS4.
tareqsalah1
Member
In my 25 years playing games i have never said man i want a more powerful console this game sucks
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