ZombiePlatypus
Member
It's good and strong enough. I would not be happy if all console makers went so far as to pull a Nintendo, but having a power-race with PC would be missing the point of what a console is.
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"PS4 is like a 5 years old PC and its really holding developers back"
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So you say, but I regularly look into how Skyrim looks with the best graphics mods and nothing I've seen even comes close to the overall quality of something like UC4 or RotR. Yes, you can crank up the 8k foliage density to unbeliavable levels. Yes you can say that what you see on screen has more tech going on, but yet the actual result doesn't look as impressive. Geometry, texture variety, character animation, background animation, environment interactivity, physics, destructability etc. etc. all goes into the equation.
Played both of those on max on my PC and I wish they as a whole looked as good as UC4. Well they do in fps and image quality. I don't expect a vast open world rpg to look as good as something like UC4 though.
I'm going to guess the former.
AI, physics, novel gameplay schemes, etc.
The entire thread is missing the whole point of the quote in the title. It's sad.
Stating the obvious. Yeah the hardware is very long in the tooth now. Pretty shitty GPU and CPU only being flattered by closed platform coding efficiency.
I don't want them to rush out the PS5 though, should aim for 2020, need to allow a node shift so there is a good leap for the budget they want to stick to. Not sure if USD499 is a sensible price point. Not too concerned with Cerny and House in charge.
I don't want them to rush out the PS5 though, should aim for 2020, need to allow a node shift so there is a good leap for the budget they want to stick to. Not sure if USD499 is a sensible price point. Not too concerned with Cerny and House in charge.
Sephiroth_VII
Member
How about you post some screenshots then? Let's compare.
I'm not saying a good PC can't outperform a PS4(duh), but Skyrim really isn't the game you want to dig in with.
Giftofgab24
Member
I should have clarified that the second paragraph was more of a response to the thread topic in general. Even still, the 3 games you listed as the best looking are all only available because consoles exist. None of those games would have been made otherwise. Of course they look better at higher resolutions and frame rates, but the point is moot because without the install base of value oriented consoles there wouldn't be very many games to take advantage of the powerful pc hardware.
CharminUltra
Member
Well put.
Nose Master
Member
It's still early. They'll drop that in a revision or two, if we stay mobile iterative like this.
Coinspinner
Member
I wonder what "all different games" means. New kinds of games? But you see more of that on the low end of the graphics spectrum...
Red Liquorice
Member
And that's a good thing?
That just sounds annoying, and I think it would actually hurt the game.
Kssio_Aug
Member
nycgamer4ever
Member
I have the Witcher 2 on PC. And yes it's high quality but it was janky AF and so was Witcher 1. Both couldn't hold a candle to The Witcher 3. So in the case of Witcher 3 it appears his excuse was spot on. Developing for the consoles appears to have allowed them to make the best game in the Trilogy.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
God damn these consoles, holding back progress!
Sad Affleck
Member
Perhaps. Or perhaps developing two games before the third allowed them to realize what works and what doesn't, gain experience and iterate on their previous work, delivering a more polished product as a result. The same thing happened with the Mass Effect series which was exclusive to Xbox at first.
nycgamer4ever
Member
Then let's compare Horizon ZD. Probably the best comparison. I think most people would say the Horizon ZD holds it's own. I play Witcher on the pc maxed out and Horizon amazes me with what how it looks and run on a $400 box. But it's ok to disagree on the subject. Maybe I am jaded but nothing on my pc really blows me away anymore.
Sony isn't on a mobile iterative track, and it's not clear what track Microsoft is on. The PS4 Pro isn't capable of supporting fundamentally different games, just higher resolution rendering for the same games. Dropping support for the PS4 wouldn't do anything but limit the size of your addressable market for no apparent reason.
PS5 will be fundamentally more capable with true exclusives out of the gate. Whether there will also be cross-gen titles that treat the PS5 as a fancy PS4 Pro 2 is an interesting but entirely different question.
Bingo. This is exactly the point and all wishes to the contrary are basically irrelevant.
gamerMan
Member
Why am I not surprised that this is a quote by Fares? The guy has a huge ego and thinks his games are the best. He calls popular games boring and repetitive. When he was reading early reviews of Brothers most of them were negative and he said that people don't know what the fuck they are talking about. His success is going to his head.
If A Way Out runs like crap on the PS4, this has nothing to do with the PS4, but his design philosophy. Imagine if Uncharted 4 rendered each scene twice, of course it is even going to tax the most souped up PC. That's why the idea hasn't been done before.If the PS4 can't run it, make it only available on PCs. The console market doesn't want to pay $499 for a console just to play his game.
No matter what your hardware is, there are going to be limitations. Don't blame the inadequacies of your game on hardware. Nintendo is here creating some of the best reviewed games on century old hardware.
If A Way Out runs like crap on the PS4, this has nothing to do with the PS4, but his design philosophy. Imagine if Uncharted 4 rendered each scene twice, of course it is even going to tax the most souped up PC. That's why the idea hasn't been done before.If the PS4 can't run it, make it only available on PCs. The console market doesn't want to pay $499 for a console just to play his game.
No matter what your hardware is, there are going to be limitations. Don't blame the inadequacies of your game on hardware. Nintendo is here creating some of the best reviewed games on century old hardware.
That was just a simple example to suggest that a better CPU would allow for more enemies and a greater variety of enemies to be on screen at any given time.
How Gurella would choose to use that is up to them. It could just as easily he used to animate more fish, foxes and turkeys ect. This would be useful as grinding for those crafting ingredients would be much faster.
nycgamer4ever
Member
Could be. I am sure experience played a role also. By adding the consoles to the mix I am sure they had to hire more people which in the end benefits the game.
I think now that the consoles are more and more like pcs is actually going to be a good think for multi-platform development going forward, not a detriment like this person is saying.
UltimaPooh
Member
What needs to happen is consoles need an easy consumer way to swap out GPUs and CPUs and RAM to upgrade to get the latest and greatest.
If someone wants to go and figure that out you'll solve the tech gap in consoles vs PC.
If someone wants to go and figure that out you'll solve the tech gap in consoles vs PC.
TheEndOfItAll
Neo Member
This is effectively the entire argument of the #pcmasterrace folks, and you know what? They're right. Yet people still buy up consoles.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
now imagine HZD with tons of mods "skyrim like" and high framerate and good mouse+kb gameplay
Nah the gpu is still an enthusiast level card essentially. The CPU sucks but that actually kind of works out alright for 4k as you're gpu limited there more than at lower resolutions.
So Xbox one x is like a PC with a modern GPU but a 5+ year old cpu. It will perform similarly to that actually.
Aztechnology
Member
That would make them PC's.
The solution to the problem you are talking about, assuming you're referring to the need for modular hardware while retaining the simple UI. Is just a barebones gaming OS. Which is why I'm supriwed Microsoft hasn't done a windows 10, Xbox Mode. Where it just allows you through an EFI or otherwise to boot into an Xbox UI.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
So once again, developers are asking for more power.
btw, aside from visuals, what's holding developers back?
if games like Rez, Shenmue and Seaman (truly innovative games, btw) were possible 15-20 years ago, why is it not possible now?
and it will never ends
if games like Rez, Shenmue and Seaman (truly innovative games, btw) were possible 15-20 years ago, why is it not possible now?
and it will never ends
I understand the games I listed likely wouldn't have existed without consoles. That doesn't make the idea that PS4 exclusives are untouchable any less stupid. So many people getting defensive over him point at the PS4 when he would likely point at the Xbox if it was in the same place. He's clearly talking about consoles in general.
Like I commented earlier, I think people are reading too much into his comment. The point about consoles being necessary to fund games is moot because the developer never said otherwise. He pointed out a reason why the game doesn't have the most cutting edge presentation or may be lacking visually and now people are losing their mind. As an indie developer, he doesn't have the same amount of resources, funding, or support as a AAA studio but his game will still be held to the same standards. So I can see how he would like a more powerful baseline to work with.
Radical Edward
Member
Having a great time with my ps4. So many good games and not enough time
Omega Kirby
Member
nycgamer4ever
Member
now imagine HZD with tons of mods "skyrim like" and high framerate and good mouse+kb gameplay
Now THAT is different story and I could get behind mods. However on a closed system it's very unlikely. Horizon ZD at 60 fps would be fantastic, but with a lock (just about) 30fps it's pretty smooth. I can't imagine playing the game with a mouse and keyboard though.
jonscrambler
Member
it's also holding back PS4 Pro
Suzushiiro
Banned
I can see two outcomes:
A) There's a full generational reset in 2019-2020 that's backwards compatible but doesn't require compatibility with either the 2013 or 2016/2017 consoles, and then that new generation has a Pro/X revision in 2022-2024 that runs those games smoother/prettier
B) There's new hardware in 2019-2020, but backwards compatibility is only required for the PS4 Pro/XBOneX and developers can choose not to support the 2013 machines.
I'd say A is exponentially more likely than B- it makes it much easier on the devs and most people who buy a Pro/XBoneX, particularly those who also bought the base units, aren't going to feel like they got screwed because the next generation hardware doesn't support the mid-gen refresh. I can maybe see MS going for B since the X appears to be more of a legit halfway point between gen 8 and gen 9, but PS4 Pro is way too close to the PS4 spec-wise for it to make sense for Sony to mandate that PS5 be compatible with it.
singhjeet29
Member
Isnt the original XBox One the lowest common denominator in all of this? And who honestly cares, this has been console gaming MO since 2008. They will always lag behind the PC. They make up some of the power by being a fixed targetable system for developers and look good enough for 75% of console purchasers.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
in a world of 144hz, 30fps is nowhere near smooth
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Sad Affleck
Member
I agree. I don't mind sacrificing high-end graphics if it means more people can enjoy gaming on their budget.
Why not? Skyrim is actually a good example for this topic. One could argue that it had the potential of being so much more if consoles had the hardware to achieve what the modding community was able to do with the PC version. GTA mods are another example of this.
Modded Skyrim Screenshots:
tiny.cc/muhyly
I don't really agree that consoles hold back the creativity of developers, but advancements in hardware obviously have their positives in bringing artistic vision to life.
Playing Gears 4 on my 1070 at 1440 and a perfect 60fps is great and all, but I've probably spent way more time playing Arma 3, Space Engine, and DOOM II (though the former two would easily push a console to its limits).
The PS4 in itself isn't holding anyone back, money is what's holding developers back.
Money both in terms of what developers can actually afford to make in terms of graphics and asset quality, and money in terms of what manufacturers can actually sell at an affordable price.
This is exactly what I mean. Back in the day bleeding edge graphics were still "cheap" enough that some PC developers could get away with making PC-only games pushing graphics and other tech you'd never see on consoles. Today the only game even trying to do that is Star Citizen because bleeding edge in today's terms is way too expensive to only target people who have GTX 1080's.
The last time a bunch of PC games pulled visually far ahead of console games was probably in 2011 when some developers started to make multiplat games that targeted PC first and the aging PS3 and 360 second, like Battlefield 3, Witcher 2, and Crysis 2. This was happening because the PS3 and 360 were getting so long in the tooth developers were already ready for a new hardware gen, and sort of treated PC as that new hardware gen. Lots of multiplats between 2011 and 2013 looked severely hobbled on consoles compared to PC. That's less likely to happen this time around because of the upgraded consoles.
DarkConfidant
Member
Same. Unless the games get better, I'm perfectly happy with 1080p in games.
It's why I prefer consoles. There is no power creep. There's standard hardware, and with that out of the way, folks can just focus on making games.
I don't play games to be wowed by graphics. I'd rather have hardware designed around other ideas, like how the Switch is designed around portable multiplayer.
Sad Affleck
Member
There are multiple ways to interpret what he is saying. "Man, consoles suck, PC 4 life!" is one way but I don't think it's accurate. I think he is saying that he wishes consoles had better hardware.
UltimaPooh
Member
In theory yes. But they wouldn't be modern day PCs where your average person has no idea what any of those components are.
No because just making a simple UI doesn't mean you know how to upgrade the CPU or the RAM or the GPU in a super easy way. Its why plug and go devices are so huge, you plug it in and only have to worry about software updates. If someone is able to make a form factor where you can just plug in and un plug boxes for these things that connect to an internal mother board they will have figured it out.
boneyjangles
Member
And here I am enjoying my switch games just fine, occasionally looking over at my PS4 Pro and thinking "what ridiculous overkill for many games"
And a lot of Indy games probably run just as well on PS3.
But speaking of the pro, runs battlefield one just fine, close to 60fps for the massive multiplayer games. The non pro struggles with maybe 10-15 frames less, but it's all pretty good, not 30fps like destiny. Dynamic resolution seems to help somewhat too I guess.
So Battlefield One is phenomenal looking and has huge complex multiplayer, and isn't being held back by consoles. Uncharted 4 (pretty much the best looking game period, along with horizon ZD) multiplayer runs a pretty smooth 60-ish fps.
So if question what's really being held back, does said developer have a more complicated or better looking game than Battlefield or Uncharted? I doubt it.
PS4 and Xbox one were decent systems at launch. Nothing mind melting or completely loss leading, but great value.
The notion that they both should have put in much hotter more expensive CPUs that probably wouldn't even be used in most games, just to 'raise the bar', well, no , those were the right systems for the right price for the time. No point bankrupting the company just for the small fraction of people that whine about this stuff. And all the 'minions' who buy these 'cheap' good value systems are the broad populous platform the gaming industry is built on.
And a lot of Indy games probably run just as well on PS3.
But speaking of the pro, runs battlefield one just fine, close to 60fps for the massive multiplayer games. The non pro struggles with maybe 10-15 frames less, but it's all pretty good, not 30fps like destiny. Dynamic resolution seems to help somewhat too I guess.
So Battlefield One is phenomenal looking and has huge complex multiplayer, and isn't being held back by consoles. Uncharted 4 (pretty much the best looking game period, along with horizon ZD) multiplayer runs a pretty smooth 60-ish fps.
So if question what's really being held back, does said developer have a more complicated or better looking game than Battlefield or Uncharted? I doubt it.
PS4 and Xbox one were decent systems at launch. Nothing mind melting or completely loss leading, but great value.
The notion that they both should have put in much hotter more expensive CPUs that probably wouldn't even be used in most games, just to 'raise the bar', well, no , those were the right systems for the right price for the time. No point bankrupting the company just for the small fraction of people that whine about this stuff. And all the 'minions' who buy these 'cheap' good value systems are the broad populous platform the gaming industry is built on.
MotionBlue
Member
?????
The ps4 launched in 2013. So it's 4 years old. A console has never matched a high end pc on launch. What is the point of the thread/article? Feed the PCMR inferiority complex? Or console tribalism?
The ps4 launched in 2013. So it's 4 years old. A console has never matched a high end pc on launch. What is the point of the thread/article? Feed the PCMR inferiority complex? Or console tribalism?
katsubento
Member
Doesn't seem to be holding back a lot of developers. Sure, it could always be better, but I haven't felt like " if only it was a bit better".
SomedayTheFire
Member
Damn now ya mention it, it's coming back. I associated that with the S for some reason
boiled goose
good with gravy
It was holding developers back at launch.
This isn't new.
This isn't new.
Trogdor1123
Member
It's like it launched 4 years ago or something...
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