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72 years ago today, the US dropped an atomic bomb on Nagasaki, Japan
- Thread starter GK86
- Start date
It was horrific, but ultimately hundreds of thousands or more could have been potentially killed due to war.
DrROBschiz
Member
yeah but soldiers signed up for that reality (well unless they were drafted)
These people didnt but they would have been fighting out of their homes if we had opted to invade the mainland
History is so messy
nhlducks35
Member
I always find it interesting how people mention the atomic bombs (obviously since it's the anniversary of Nagasaki) but never really talk about the firebombing of Tokyo
Geno Breaker
Banned
Lets hope we never get a war of this scale again.
GoldenEye 007
Member
For what? It was a necessary evil.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
And yet again it feels like we're on the brink of nuclear war. We've learned nothing.
New technology that fueled the next few decades cold war. Also a reminder of a weapon that should never be used on people again, not that firebombings should be allowed.
Keep telling yourself that.
MontyBrown
Banned
We're not. Stop being so dramatic.
That's the argument, but killing innocent people who are just living their day to day lives in a horrific way was pretty evil.
teruterubozu
Member
For the eternal debate that has no end.
LordKasual
Banned
"Fire and Fury the world has never seen"
Japan - "Fuck you, you orange cunt."
Japan - "Fuck you, you orange cunt."
PoorChoices
Member
Anyone have a detailed read or documentary on the aftermath? Like how long it took to be able to enter or how long before people could start living there again.
While possibly bleak, I find that stuff interesting.
While possibly bleak, I find that stuff interesting.
GoldenEye 007
Member
There have been enough studies and analysis done. A total ground war in Japan would have killed many more on both sides. Both military and civilian people.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
It's pretty widely accepted now that many more innocent people (and soldiers) would have died if the bombs weren't dropped.
So... Not really sure what grounds you're making this argument on.
What about hundreds of thousands of innocents that were drafted without choice?
I just read this yesterday:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1946/08/31/hiroshima
Survivor accounts from Hiroshima.
Because that is considered more "normal" and ok. So was the conventional bombing of cities all over Europe that never gets mentioned.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Par for the course in WW2 as everyone bombed literally anything and everyone and gave seemingly no fucks at all.
The firebombing of Japan's major cities were far worse for civilians than either single atomic bombing drop.
ClosingADoor
Member
As would have been the major casualties among millions of men drafted into the US army that would have to carry out the horrific invasion otherwise.
It's sad that it had to come to this. Let's hope we never use those weapons, or weapons leading to similar large scale destruction again.
PixelatedBookake
Junior Member
Rest in peace to all the innocents. The nuclear bomb is the probably the worst thing humankind has ever created and should have never been dropped. Disgusting to think of all the parading and celebrating in America after the bomb had dropped. All those innocent people vaporized in a second becoming fucking shadows on the FUCKING GROUND. This atrocity shouldn't be celebrated in any capacity.
tearsintherain
Member
http://zidbits.com/2013/11/is-nagasaki-and-hiroshima-still-radioactive/
tl;dr: if nukes are exploded in the air, the fallout radiation which is what everyone is worried about pretty much disappears on the same day as the radioactive elements go inert as they (literally) fall out in the sky.
If a nuke was exploded on the GROUND however, it would mix radioactive elements into the dirt as it explodes and create large areas of land that are radioactive.
Both bombs that exploded in Japan were detonated in the air so the long term radioactive effects were minimal. Hiroshima and Nagasaki both measure the same level of background radiation as the rest of the world.
The US were already killing more people with firebombing than they did with both A-bombs combined, and those firebombings would have continued for weeks or months longer until the US felt confident it could launch a successful invasion of mainland Japan.
A terrible thing, but less terrible than the alternative.
A terrible thing, but less terrible than the alternative.
Albino_Yeti
Member
Yep. The A bombs were horrific of course, even Truman knew that. But they were better than what would have happened if the Allies had to invade Japan.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
That first screenshot in th OP is freaking terryifing.
The parading celebrating the end of the war you mean?
ClosingADoor
Member
Nuclear bombs were one of the reasons the US and Soviet Union could not go to war. In that matter it helped with keeping the peace.
You can't blame people for celebrating a prolonged war was finally over. US soldiers went through hell during the battles in the Pacific.
This was the best way, no matter how horrific. The alternative would have been to bomb the cities into the ground through regular means for weeks or months, with an invasion afterwards that would have seen even more lives lost.
It seems to be the opposite actually. The original narrative was indeed that an invasion would have been much more bloody. However newer evidence seems to indicate that the Japanese were making attempts to surrender before the attacks but the US was pretty desperate to use its nuclear weapons so ignored those offers.
It should be noted that the Japanese attempts to surrender were on their own terms, they didn't want to answer for their war crimes nor cede much of their conquered territories.
Still I don't think anyone can argue against the idea that Ameirca was absolutely itching for a chance to nuke someone.
Banjotanooki
Member
While I was living in Japan, I had visited all the main cities except for Hiroshima for fear of experiencing guilt over what happened and passing by the memorial.
I even remember having a fun activity planned for my junior high school class and walking into 2nd period RIGHT AFTER they were told about the atomic bombs for the first time and having a quiet classroom the entire time.
R.I.P. to all those who suffered on that day.
I even remember having a fun activity planned for my junior high school class and walking into 2nd period RIGHT AFTER they were told about the atomic bombs for the first time and having a quiet classroom the entire time.
R.I.P. to all those who suffered on that day.
Visiting the epicenter of where the bomb was dropped in Nagasaki and the neaby Peace Park remains one of the most solemn and haunting days of my life. They have a section of ground covered under plexiglass which was not cleared up to show what the devastation was like, and the nearby stream has a plaque telling visitors this is where survivors scrambled to drink to quench their burnt skin and died in agony of radiation poisoning from consuming the water.
When I read anything in the news about NK or Trump I'll flit back to memories of that place and a minor dread falls over me I have to try and balance with thoughts of reason and optimism. I really, really hope nothing like that ever has to happen again.
When I read anything in the news about NK or Trump I'll flit back to memories of that place and a minor dread falls over me I have to try and balance with thoughts of reason and optimism. I really, really hope nothing like that ever has to happen again.
There is a chance Japan would have surrendered without the bombings.
Before the bombings, USA sent a threat. Japan's response was ambiguous... and USA interpreted the responses as hostile rather than "we're thinking".
"At a press conference with the Japanese press in Tokyo, Suzuki stated that the Japanese policy towards the declaration would be one of mokusatsu, which the United States interpreted to mean "to kill with silence", in other words "to ignore", leading to a swift decision by the Allies to carry out the threat of destruction. However, the word can also mean "no comment," as it was apparently intended in this case to mean.[10]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potsdam_Declaration#Aftermath
A thought for everyone who was in the cities in 1945 and their families.
Also pro-tip: While everything happening at the moment is scary, literally almost every day for most of the 1950s, '60s, '70s and '80s were lived in constant, perpetual fear of a nuclear attack at any instant. And the likelihood felt much more real than what we're experiencing right now.
Also pro-tip: While everything happening at the moment is scary, literally almost every day for most of the 1950s, '60s, '70s and '80s were lived in constant, perpetual fear of a nuclear attack at any instant. And the likelihood felt much more real than what we're experiencing right now.
Aaronrules380
Member
Yep. It was a horrible tragedy, but the alternative was not necessarily better. And keep in mind that it's probably better that the first nukes used in a war were the super early ones and not the vastly more powerful ones that were developed later
No one was celebrating innocents being killed, they were celebrating the that the war was over that had caused so much destruction.
Didn't we warn them we had the bombs ahead of time. They chose to ignore it and were preparing for a land invasion. It's freaking war.
Evil John Locke
Member
You realize you're the one here ignorantly trying to paint a complex situation as a black and white one.
It would have been better to continually firebomb Japan. Blockade it. Starve out its populace. Invade with ground forces and have them kill Japanese directly and lose thousands of American lives in the process.
That or accept Japanese "surrender" on their own terms and allow Imperial Japan to continue to exist to wage war in the future.
BrianRoyale
Member
My brother's father-in-law is technically a survivor of that bomb. His mother survived while she was pregnant with him, she worked in a military factory. She was apparently the only one to survive, quite the miracle. They monitored her to see the effects of the atomic bomb on a survivor. She did ultimately die from cancer, and my brother's father-in-law had really bad cancer, but survived.
Anyway, something to never forget, it was horrible (though a lot of it was, Tokyo was leveled by fire bombings) and we never forget what we've done as humans to each other.
Anyway, something to never forget, it was horrible (though a lot of it was, Tokyo was leveled by fire bombings) and we never forget what we've done as humans to each other.
I am confused. Even when I visited the Hiroshima Museum I read often that the Japanese do not hate America for that including studies and polls they made. Japan ignored the warnings and was prepared to go under with every person. I also think the two bombs saved more people than killed them and also teached the world about the Horrors of these weapons.
ClosingADoor
Member
Anything less then unconditional surrender would have been unacceptable, and rightly so.
teruterubozu
Member
But what's even more shameful is that the people of Hiroshima did not adhere to the idea that they were Japanese nationals and were very anti-emperor.