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Nick Robinson (Polygon) answers to sexual harassment allegations, leaves Polygon

This post is the kind of bullshit that these conversations dont need. Imagine for a second if someone posted "lesbian black female feels sorry that the internet discovered she was a ***". Just because someone is a white male doesnt give you license to use their race, gender, or sexual orientation as a fucking snide comment. That shit directed at anyone in the manner of your post is deplorable.

The majority of white people who just ignored the post instead of crying about it like you are would disagree.
 

BTA

Member
Sounds like we'll be having this exact same conversation about someone else before the year is up.

https://twitter.com/_chloi/status/895827486696587268

This is not the only thing said along these lines I've seen, and I'm not sure how to express my thoughts about it?

Mainly for the sake of the victims but also somewhat selfishly wanting the bandaid to be ripped off, I hope these things come to light sooner rather than later, I guess.
 

mr jones

Ethnicity is not a race!
*sigh*

Can we keep this simple?

The dude's response was never going to be the apology that many of you are wanting.

WHY?

Because rule #1 is TO NEVER ADMIT TO A CRIME. PERIOD.

What you folks want him to do is admit to a crime. That's colossally stupid, and won't ever happen, unless he's actually charged with a crime, tried, and convicted.

Let me repeat that again, and expand on it just so you won't be disappointed the next time someone fucks up:

NO ONE, WITH ANY SORT OF LEGAL REPRESENTATION, WILL EVER APOLOGIZE FOR A CRIME.

This is exactly what you should expect to happen. The guy says he's sorry without really saying why, he'll lose his job, sponsorships, contracts, whatever, and he'll go under the radar for a while.
 

L Thammy

Member
I think it's gonna take some time.

As much as I think he absolutely has no concept of what he has done, and is sorry that he is suffering the consequences of his actions, not what he actually did. His life is also collapsing around him. So he will need some separation from that before really being introspective about the whole thing.

Well, yeah. Even if he has genuinely realized that he was doing something wrong and makes a genuine effort to change, it isn't going to happen overnight. He has to demonstrate his behaviour. Hopefully he reaches out to the women he's hurt as well.

The guy says he's sorry without really saying why, he'll lose his job

Well...
 

Pepboy

Member
I gotta say this because it is making me so angry to see people in this thread saying this is a 'good apology'.

THIS IS NOT A GOOD APOLOGY!

Nick is lying. Yes, lying. He is mischaracterizing his sexual harrassment as flirting. Pressuring women online on social media for nude pictures and sex acts is not flirting, its harrassment. Its like a person saying groping someone is just being friendly. He is not only giving a weak ass apology, he is straight up doing damage control for his image by mischaracterizing what actually happened!

Also, you can tell he fucking cares about himself and his online popularity more than his victims because he spends most of this shitty apology bragging about how popular he is and how people made fanart. An apology letter about sexual harrassment is NOT the place to bring this up, wtf.

Also, screw Polygon for saying they wish him the best. This man is a serial sexual harrasser and displaying predatory behavior and they are hugging him before they send him out the door?! By not taking a firm stance that what Nick did was deplorable, they only embolden people to accept that what he did was less awful than it really is. I was so hopeful that this was going to be handeled well, but Polygon and Nick are just doing damage control afterall and trying to downplay everything.

I can sort of see where you are coming from but respectfully I disagree on a few bits.

First, I'm not sure I've seen anything to suggest he "pressured" women into sending nudes. He certainly asked for them, but did he ever threaten or otherwise exert his (relatively miniscule) influence to get nudes? If a woman said no, did he ever ask a second time or imply he was owed nudes?

From what I saw his actions were more like creeping on his own fans. However I may have missed something.

Secondly, a person groping is obviously not being friendly and is not analogous. He did not take nude photos without consent, nor did he hack their computers to get nude photos. The closer analogy would be asking a woman (out of the blue) if he could grope her. That is still sexual harassment but not the same as groping (which seems to fall under sexual assault).

I don't see him talking about fanart (edit: he does mention fanart but the rest of my statement is unchanged), but I took that section as him trying to explain what led to his deplorable actions. He actually is kind of clear that he USED to have a lot of followers, many of which have left. So I don't take this as bragging.

Also, Polygon fired the guy. That's clearly the right move, and basically the firmest move they could take. Polygon employees were probably not targets of the harassment, so it's unclear what else they could do. His career in game journalism is over for forseeable future. Polygon knows this. Wishing luck is empty statement. If they admitted more, they might also be open to lawsuits.
 

Lylo

Member
Is that tweet the only official response from Polygon?

I was wondering the same thing, i mean as a serious organization they should at least compromise to implement an education program or something along these lines to discourage such behavior and to protect the victims from backlash and retaliation by the harasser.
 

BiggNife

Member
maybe he can get a job at TechRaptor

that's about it, though
He'll do LPs on his YouTube channel and make $10k a month on Patreon from his rabid fans who either took his apology at face value or were convinced he never did anything wrong in the first place. He'll ultimately be fine.
 

Nishastra

Banned
The thing a lot of people don't seem to understand is that those fans we got transcripts from in the thread last weekend were incidental. The original allegations were that Nick had been harassing an indeterminate number of industry women, to the point where it was basically a well-known secret among women who work in the games industry and people close to them.

Nick apologized for what is now publicly known, but while that stuff was definitely good evidence of him being a harasser, it isn't actually what he was accused of. And even then his apology was more of an excuse.

This is why people are still upset.
 
His response is exceptionally weak, and shows he does not truly understand the harm of his actions.

Here's his response, and my thoughts on it. I had to run it through OCR software, so if you notice a correction, please let me know.

So, here's how he starts:

I messed up, and I owe you an explanation.

This statement is one-sentence old, and is already off to a poor start. He is not apologizing here, he is explaining. He's writing this statement to his fans, and the online community -- but not to those people his actions truely harmed. He's not writing to his victims.

Over nine years on this website, I've used it for every aspect of my life: making friends, finding jobs, and, yes, embarrassingly, flirting. This means I have, on many occasions, used Twitter to hit on people.

With this, he is downplaying his actions -- by labeling them as 'flirting', and not what they were -- harassment.

There's an important aspect of flirting that distinguishes it from harassment -- choice. The entire technique of flirting is based off choice. A flirty statement has plausible deniability -- the person being flirted on has the ability to read and respond to the statement either in a romantic/salacious way, or a platonic way -- they have the choice.

'You have beautiful eyes' is a stereotypical flirty statement. It can be read either as a minorly romantic way, or as a bland complement. If the person receiving that complement is interested in flirting, they will read the statement more salaciously -- and will respond in a way to further the salacious conversation. If they are not interested, they will respond to it as a platonic statement, or not respond at all. The person being flirted on has the choice on how to interpret the statement, how to respond, and how to drive the conversation -- either in a platonic way, or a romantic way. It's a two-player game -- and that's the beauty of flirting, that it is a consentual and collaborative exercise between two people.

If the person being flirted on rejects the salacious interpretation, the person doing the flirting has not suffered great harm -- they can fall back on the belief the person either did not understand the attempt at flirting, or otherwise was not interested -- but it does not harm their platonic relationship. The person who received the unwanted flirt can either believe that they mis-read a platonic statement as flirtatious, or that they successfully pushed back and kept the relationship platonic. Both parties have an face-saving exit path from a flirty conversation.

Harassment removes the other person's choice, their agency. They do not have the choice of reading the statement as platonic, or the choice of keeping the relationship and conversation platonic. They have been forced into an uncomfortable situation where the other person unquestionably attempted to make their platonic conversation/relationship into a romantic/sexual one. They have no agency in steering the conversation, that choice was not given to them.

'Send nudes' is not flirting, it is harassment -- there is no possible platonic reading of that message. If you receive that, you cannot walk back the conversation/relationship. The line has been crossed without consent.

That's embarrassing enough on its own, as it's now clear that some of these advances were unwanted or handled very poorly. But there's another significant issue: while my platform and my responsibilities grew, I failed to grow alongside them. Over the past couple years, I kept on using Twitter the same way I always have — including 'sliding into DMs,' a move that carries an entirely different weight when you're a private individual vs. when you're a public one.

Not that long ago, I had an extremely small following online. I never imagined I'd someday be getting messages from people about how the silly stuff I've made has pulled them out of a dark place or affected them positively. I certainly never imagined there'd be fan art with my dumb face on it.

All that to say this: I'm now, as weird as it sounds, in a position of power, but I'm ashamed to admit that until the past few days, I hadn't appreciated the responsibility that brings.

Here he is clearly not understanding the true cause of harm in his actions. The base harm was not caused by the power dynamic -- that was just a catalyst. The true harm was with the barnstorming of 'show me your tits' -- the actual harassment he engaged in.

Catcalling a stranger on the street is wrong if you're John Q. Public, or if you're the Pope. The power dynamic here just made the actual harassment worse, it's not the base harm here.

I'll admit that when this conversation first started, I was defensive and confused — I've always tried to be a thoughtful, considerate person when it comes to this stuff, and couldn't understand what was going on. But the more I thought about it, the more I understood where people were coming from.

It's clear he does not understand the issue here.

I believe that when someone says you've hurt them or made them uncomfortable, the right thing to do is not to argue, it's to listen. What I always thought of as "flirting" can quickly become something more insidious when one of the people is in a position of power. I totally failed to recognize this.

The problem is that he thinks harassment is flirting, not that he doesn't get the hint.

I've spent the past week doing little besides reflecting on my own behavior. I'm embarrassed, obviously, but more than embarrassed, I'm sorry. I'm sorry to anyone I ever made uncomfortable with my advances, and I'm sorry for disappointing fans of mine who, rightfully, expected better from me.

He has not apologized to his victims, and is straight-up minimizing the harm by his harassment. 'Hey, want to go grab dinner sometime?' is an advance, 'Wanna blow me?' is harassment, plain and simple.

I know I've let you down, and I know it falls on me to earn back your trust by changing my behavior going forward. That's exactly what I intend to do.

As long as his behavior is continuing to think harassment is flirting, and he refuses to acknowledge his harassment and apologize to his victims, he deserves no place in the gaming industry and community.
 

Hero

Member
That's not a good apology by regular standards but I guess for games industry standards it is? Reducing what he did to "flirting" is really playing down harassment.
 

BTA

Member
The thing a lot of people don't seem to understand is that those fans we got transcripts from in the thread last weekend were incidental. The original allegations were that Nick had been harassing an indeterminate number of industry women, to the point where it was basically a well-known secret among women who work in the games industry and people close to them.

Nick apologized for what is now publicly known, but while that stuff was definitely good evidence of him being a harasser, it isn't actually what he was accused of. And even then his apology was more of an excuse.

This is why people are still upset.

Yeah, I get that people might still be being blindsided by this, but it is/was kinda confusing to see folks hear about what started this, see the screenshots that are clearly not about industry folks, and go "that's it?" as if that could totally be the only people he did this to.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Interesting point. Without laying blame anywhere, there must be some objective standard beyond which 'romantic intention' (for lack of a better word) becomes harassment.

For me, it would be after the first 'attempt' to become involved with someone where that person indicates verbally or non-verbally that the attention is not wanted.

The challenge might be that the verbal or non-verbal indication is not clear. That's where education becomes important. Teaching people to read and understand rejection which isn't communicated by a clear "Not interested."

Here's Every company I've ever worked for views it:
there is no buffer for a first attempt. The first time you act, if it's unwanted or makes someone feel threatened or uncomfortable, it's harassment. Proceeding after that just makes you more of an ass.

Edit: to piggy back off of an above post- leaving space for the recipient to maintain a platonic relationship is usually the difference between counseling or dismissal.

There are a lot of people who struggle with this, because it truthfully can be difficult to know if a gesture will positively received. It becomes even more of an 'issue' for people with ego's (like this guy appears to have), because they actually start believing that people want them to behave this way. For example, This is how 'grab her by the p****' ends up being dismissed as "locker room talk" instead of sexual assault

I think (hope) that's where his 'position of power' comments stem from. It's not to excuse this type of behavior from people who don't have higher status. But an admission, that someone of his status had a heightened responsibility to recognize this behavior for what it truly is- he should have been protecting people from this kind of behavior, not perpetrating it.
 

L Thammy

Member
Still going through earlier posts. I saw the word "flirt" in the apology and thought "oh boy here we go", but I ended up changing my mind on it because it seemed like he was in no way defending himself. He didn't fall into the same "it was just flirting" defense that I saw people in the last thread guard him with. He was acknowledging the problem.

But it seems like the people who are more involved in this incident aren't taking it as sincere, and thinking about it more, I think my change of heart after reading it were totally wrong. It's more intelligent than similar apologies I've seen but it's manipulative.

The big thing in my mind right now is that he was actually telling women to keep silent. When I was looking at the apology, I was thinking about it as someone who was an asshole because he was too selfish to consider the feelings of other people, and the moral evaluation of his actions hadn't even entered into his brain. That's a similar view that the apology wants you to buy into. But he was telling women to keep silent. He knew that his actions are wrong. This shouldn't that kind of a learning experience.

The problem he was acknowledging wasn't the real one in this situation.

Leaving Polygon is the right move. His words seem sincere. I hope he doesn't launch a Patreon in 2 months asking fans to fund some project of his and claim he was blacklisted by SJWs or something. He doesn't seem like the type so hopefully that never happens.

I'm not certain that this was ever an option. Gators loath Polygon, and he might still have the smell on him.
 
Victims came forward and spoke up, he got reprimanded and is no longer with polygon, and put up a good apology.

Given the circumstances, I think this ended the best way it could have. I hope the victims feel like they were heard and I hope he'll grow from this going forward.
 

Arcia

Banned
I can sort of see where you are coming from but respectfully I disagree on a few bits.

First, I'm not sure I've seen anything to suggest he "pressured" women into sending nudes. He certainly asked for them, but did he ever threaten or otherwise exert his (relatively miniscule) influence to get nudes? If a woman said no, did he ever ask a second time or imply he was owed nudes?

From what I saw his actions were more like creeping on his own fans. However I may have missed something.

Secondly, a person groping is obviously not being friendly and is not analogous. He did not take nude photos without consent, nor did he hack their computers to get nude photos. The closer analogy would be asking a woman (out of the blue) if he could grope her. That is still sexual harassment but not the same as groping (which seems to fall under sexual assault).

I don't see him talking about fanart, but I took that section as him trying to explain what led to his deplorable actions. He actually is kind of clear that he USED to have a lot of followers, many of which have left. So I don't take this as bragging.

Also, Polygon fired the guy. That's clearly the right move, and basically the firmest move they could take. Polygon employees were probably not targets of the harassment, so it's unclear what else they could do. His career in game journalism is over for forseeable future. Polygon knows this. Wishing luck is empty statement. If they admitted more, they might also be open to lawsuits.

Just asking for nudes is putting pressure on vulnerable people (other women in games journalism and fans). Nick was in a place of some power and was asking fans (in one known case) for nude pictures. Nick had power over his fans and was actively trying to use it to sate his own desires. He didn't have to actuvely threaten them either, the threat existed silently already. If these women spoke out against it or told him to leave them alone, they could have been negatively affected in the industry by him, or at least feared this was a possibility. Similarly, him creeping on fans is gross because of similar power dynamics.

My point about sexual harrassment online and groping is more about the mental and emotional pain and distress it causes. The damage they cause on the victim are the same in most cases and to hand wave it away as a friendly or benign behavior is disgusting.

Polygon did fire him and I am glad. I mostly just don't like them showing any positivity towards him. What he did is very bad, if anyone should be putting their foot down and telling everyone the gravity of the situation, its those in authority. To see them wish him the best is opening the door for people to let Nick's actions slide, and I don't like that at all.
 

zelas

Member
This whole thing honestly leaves me pretty disappointed with games media in general and I'm probably going to ramble for a bit. I'm sure most of that is because of my limited understanding of the events, or people not being able to reveal more due to legal implications (Waypoint basically saying legal told them to not comment directly on it due to conflicts of interest and having to wait for the investigation to complete), but it still feels really scummy.

You hear a lot about how close the games media are to each other, but apparently Polygon's EIC's reputation is so bad nobody trusted him to take these allegations seriously as there were plenty of comments about how it was good that they were investigating and not closing ranks. Or maybe people were to worried about the victims to tell him that one of his employees, for years, has been doing some seriously bad shit? But isn't part of the job protecting sources? They can protect their source for the big video games scoops but can't protect their source when reporting a serial sexual harasser to another media outlet and prevent them from harming more women? Especially when none of this needs to be public at all? Would Polygon have to name victims in order to fire Nick? It doesn't look like it but I'm not sure what exactly has been revealed.

Maybe handling it all privately is bad and its better that it all blew up publicly rather than Polygon simply firing Nick one day without comment, but it seems like something could have been done sooner. Perhaps people did more than they are admitting in public due to legal issues and people did try and do something about it, but maybe Polygon couldn't do anything until now. The whole situation is messy, but it seems like people talk about sexual harassment seriously, but don't take action like it is serious.

I'm sure this is quite unfair to the games media, and a lot of them do seem like good people, and maybe they will be able to talk about the process in more detail later and I'll be able to understand their perspective better, but right now to me it seems like they failed pretty badly at stopping sexual harassment.
It's kind of hard for others to do something about it if the victims don't ever bring it up. Several people close to Nick and employees of Polygon had no idea about the situation until this blew up. I don't think we can blame Polygon's inability to act sooner on an inability to protect victims when they didnt have much to go on. For them to act merely on last week's twitter turmoil could have had serious legal ramifications as well. Things are complicated outside the court of public opinion.
 

mooooose

Member
i know a story about this guy that makes him a shitbag in my eyes. his non-apology doesn't come close.

won't repeat bc its not my story to tell

also he's def reading this thread front to back and all updates
 

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
It's very refreshing to see an actual apology instead of one of those "I'm sorry you're offended" jokes.

I hope he comes out a better person out of this.
 

BBboy20

Member
This isn't "sorry I did these things."

It's "sorry I did these things while internet famous."

Stop calling this a good, genuine apology.
And the position of power he abused within his sphere of influence.

It'll take a long time, if even ever, to gain any semblance of trust again.
 

BTA

Member
It's kind of hard for others to do something about it if the victims don't ever bring it up. Several people close to Nick and employees of Polygon had no idea about the situation until this blew up. I don't think we can blame Polygon's inability to act sooner on an inability to protect victims when they didnt have much to go on. For them to act merely on last week's twitter turmoil could have had serious legal ramifications as well. Things are complicated outside the court of public opinion.

To be fair to Seregil (I've already replied disagreeing with some of their post), my reading was they weren't talking about Polygon protecting people but rather people like the folks at Waypoint, who had friends who are victims and so knew some things before now.
 

Arcia

Banned
i know a story about this guy that makes him a shitbag in my eyes. his non-apology doesn't come close.

won't repeat bc its not my story to tell

also he's def reading this thread front to back and all updates

Well if he is reading this, I hope he knows that there are tons of people here who support his victims and aren't buying his bullshit.

I'm a was a fan of his, but I won't ever support someone who treats women like this.

Nick, if you are reading this, know that you had a chance here to actually apologize, to show remorse and empathy for your victims, but you spent the time covering your own ass instead. This tells me you aren't really confronting the reality of what you have done.

I have little hope Nick can 'change' after this non apology.
 

LewieP

Member
Because rule #1 is TO NEVER ADMIT TO A CRIME. PERIOD.

I agree with your thinking, but if you're going to make an apology without accepting responsibility for what you actually did, it's not an apology, it's a selfish attempt to protect your reputation.

Edit: this is emphasised by the fact that he is addressing his fan-base, not the people he has wronged.
 

Zambayoshi

Member
Harassment removes the other person's choice, their agency. They do not have the choice of reading the statement as platonic, or the choice of keeping the relationship and conversation platonic. They have been forced into an uncomfortable situation where the other person unquestionably attempted to make their platonic conversation/relationship into a romantic/sexual one. They have no agency in steering the conversation, that choice was not given to them.

'Send nudes' is not flirting, it is harassment -- there is no possible platonic reading of that message. If you receive that, you cannot walk back the conversation/relationship. The line has been crossed without consent.

That's a fantastic way of putting it. Nice comment!
 

Pepboy

Member
Just asking for nudes is putting pressure on vulnerable people (other women in games journalism and fans). Nick was in a place of some power and was asking fans (in one known case) for nude pictures. Nick had power over his fans and was actively trying to use it to sate his own desires. He didn't have to actuvely threaten them either, the threat existed silently already. If these women spoke out against it or told him to leave them alone, they could have been negatively affected in the industry by him, or at least feared this was a possibility. Similarly, him creeping on fans is gross because of similar power dynamics.

My point about sexual harrassment online and groping is more about the mental and emotional pain and distress it causes. The damage they cause on the victim are the same in most cases and to hand wave it away as a friendly or benign behavior is disgusting.

Polygon did fire him and I am glad. I mostly just don't like them showing any positivity towards him. What he did is very bad, if anyone should be putting their foot down and telling everyone the gravity of the situation, its those in authority. To see them wish him the best is opening the door for people to let Nick's actions slide, and I don't like that at all.

I hadn't seen anything about him asking nudes from women in games journalism. If that's the case, I'd be much more inclined to agree with you. I agree that women in the industry could have definitely feared such an implied threat -- people manipulating a position of power is something that should be discouraged and legally pursued to the maximum extent possible. Bosses / hiring committees / teachers, etc should not be engaging in sexual or romantic entanglements with those who are vulnerable to these positions of power. In that sense, if Nick was engaging in this stuff with women in the games journalism industry (especially less well known publications or sites), then I think this apology was insufficient.

But I am not as sure I would classify all female fans as a "vulnerable population". I think to some extent this endangers the sexual liberalization we've embraced since the 60s, and can come close to slut shaming (implying that there's something wrong with agreeing to send nude photos of yourself). Recognizing adult women as potentially having their own sexual desires and the ability to give consent is important too. Though from what little I saw, I think we can both agree he was certainly sexually objectifying women.

As far as Polygon's final comments, I don't think it's their place to condemn him beyond firing him. Because legally speaking, what we currently have evidence of him doing may or may not constitute sexual harassment. In the court of public opinion, it seems clear that people believe it was, and maybe laws need to change to account for that. But if they had said something like "burn in hell, you sexual harasser", they may have opened themselves up to defamation. But I think you've convinced me that simply leaving "I wish him the best." out might have been more professional.
 

Zubz

Banned
Well if he is reading this, I hope he knows that there are tons of people here who support his victims and aren't buying his bullshit.

I'm a was a fan of his, but I won't ever support someone who treats women like this.

Nick, if you are reading this, know that you had a chance here to actually apologize, to show remorse and empathy for your victims, but you spent the time covering your own ass instead. This tells me you aren't really confronting the reality of what you have done.

I have little hope Nick can 'change' after this non apology.

I was going to use that little tidbit to write something similar, but I couldn't have put it better. I always hope people can change, & I'll admit, being a former fan has me biased (I even found him a bit funnier than Griffin, & I love that guy). But if his takeaway is to ask for fans' forgiveness instead of his victims', that change isn't coming any time soon, if at all. Especially if this is even worse than what we know...

You'd hope this person is being exposed, but it's hard to hope...

Me too. The victims should always choose to share at the time they find best, but the sooner someone's outed, the less harm they can do.

Plus, like... I have no clue who they can be hinting at. I don't want another Milkshake Duck, especially if this one's still developing.
 
Games journalism is fucking rotten man, too bad for the people who do try to do well but people like this guy just ruin it for everyone. It's time for a clean-up.
 
He seems extremely immature. That's probably the most generous I can make any evaluation of him. Apologizing to his fans shows what he's actually worried about. Infantilizing and self deprecation are his comfort zone clearly. Just harmless kiddy flirting, I'm such a doofus I never could have seen myself as important and influential, fuck right off with that shit.
 

Jobbs

Banned
He seems extremely immature. That's probably the most generous I can make any evaluation of him. Apologizing to his fans shows what he's actually worried about. Infantilizing and self deprecation are his comfort zone clearly. Just harmless kiddy flirting, I'm such a doofus I never could have seen myself as important and influential, fuck right off with that shit.

I did a lot of immature things when I was young, but I never tried to pressure random people into sending me nudes or meeting me to blow me

I think we need to make a clear distinction between flirting, being immature, and just being a fucking creepy predator
 
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