D'ultimate
Member
I know these cars are similar but are they the exact same?
Not say GT can be beat but it's not the exact same models and game play mode may look a little closer.
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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
- Start date
I know these cars are similar but are they the exact same?
Not say GT can be beat but it's not the exact same models and game play mode may look a little closer.
wumster3000
Member
Im sorry but I have to disagree. Its very impressive considering its a locked 60fps with 24 cars on the track. Water puddles on the on the track and in the grass.
Also, whats with the crowd on Northern Isle Speedway? The crowd looks really strange while playing.
Im switching between both and both offer differences. I like Forza just a bit better - with weather and day night cycle giving it a slight edge.
GTS has the lighting and color palette down. PD did a great job.
Tripolygon
Banned
The material and modeling are pretty obviously better in GT, that's not even up for debate looking at that pic.yes, ingame graphics is very important....
and GT wins by far
l2ounD
Member
yes, ingame graphics is very important....
and GT wins by far
The poly difference, maybe Forza's isnt the highest LOD. But the materials and shader work in GT is a step above. Forza's scale of the leather on the airbag seems a bit off. And GT's little details of the air horn and passenger window button help sell it as believable a lot more.
TrojanBlade
Member
But it is the gameplay mode
Not sure if car models are exactly the same, but it does not matter here. GT looks way better everything graphically in this shot.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
I disagree, not only does GT look better it isn't even that close cause of the use of textures and style.
TrojanBlade
Member
No one has beat DC for weather effects ... and for that matter in a lot of other aspects.
Every time DC comes up, I hate Sony for shutting Evo down. We could have seen a DC2 this year or next and this thread would have been full of DC2 shots putting other racers behind graphically.
Baroquemantic
Member
You and me both. There will always be a little "fuck you, Sony" in me because of that. DC's engine with some improvements and more optimization would have been amazing in a DC2.
Fuck you, Sony!
Looking at the GTS replays on the last few pages, I'm so impressed by the way the trackside cameras pan and move and I'm wondering how the effect is achieved.
Matching camera placement to the real trackside positions I understand, but how do you create the movement? Are cameras motion-captured in some way?
Matching camera placement to the real trackside positions I understand, but how do you create the movement? Are cameras motion-captured in some way?
D'ultimate
Member
But it is the gameplay mode
Not sure if car models are exactly the same, but it does not matter here. GT looks way better everything graphically in this shot.
I get that it's game play. I meant that same cars in this mode. Only qualified because GT can't be matched in Photo mode.
Come on man, there's exaggerating and then there's this. I think it's fair to discuss strengths and quality but to outright shit on the work of a studio to claim some level of victory is just unnecessary. There are plenty of excellent photos depicting quality in the Forza photo thread, as I'm sure there will be plenty of excellent photos in the inevitable GTS photos thread, so there's no need to lower to Gamefaqs level of posting here.
Outrun
Member
Perhaps your observations would have a greater impact if you did not assume that T10 do not love cars and motor racing...
PeterLegend
Member
Gran Turismo is the only racing game where I actually watch the replays of my race, due to the fantastic camera angles. I never realized how great it was until I played other racing games...
gt5 took more than 5 years to make and still shipped with 80% of its car list with last gen models
More time went into the GTSport car models. They weren't too busy trying to cram 700 cars into a game and finding shortcuts to meet 4K native resolution on a console.
Hopefully this is how GT Sport moves forward. From now on. More focus on quality of models and physics rather than trying to get a large car count right out the game. If they use GT Sport as a platform then I'm sure they'll have over 200 cars in no time with quarterly updates.
Hopefully this is how GT Sport moves forward. From now on. More focus on quality of models and physics rather than trying to get a large car count right out the game. If they use GT Sport as a platform then I'm sure they'll have over 200 cars in no time with quarterly updates.
Hawk269
Member
I wish people would stop bring up DC. DC is great, I loved it but it was a 30fps racing game. You can do A LOT when your frame rate target is 30fps....these games are rendering at 1080p and 60fps and when you are at 1080p and 30fps, you can do a hell of lot more with effects, weather, TOD etc. If DC was a 60fps, then go at it, but it being a 30fps racer I don't think it is fair to GTS or Forza 7 to bring up comparisons between the two...add to the fact that in Forza you have 24 cars on-screen as well (I am not sure how many max you can have in GTS). So for Forza 7, 1080p/60fps (locked) at 24 cars is surely impressive and DC doing what it does at half the frame rate and half the amount of cars is just something that should not be brought up. Totally different games, half frame rate, half field of cars etc.
Please stop bring up DC. As impressive as it was, especially the weather, no way in hell would it look as good if it was running at 60fps.
But this is a graphics comparison thread. Not a performance comparison thread. On that note, outside of photomode DC doesn't look that great to me. Not even the weather looks good to me. The water looks like some kind of gel on your windshield. It looked great at first, but the more I see it the more unnatural it looks. But yeah. This is a racing graphics thread. People are free to compare photomode shots and in-game shots. Just don't try to make an in-game shot look bad by comparing it to a photomode shot.
Evolution Studios is part of Codemasters and they do nothing but racing games. I'm sure we'll see something special coming soon. Maybe even a spiritual successor. Hopefully they cater more towards sim fans than arcade racer fans though for their next racing installment. Hell I wouldn't even be surprised if we see a new GRID with the Evolution team running the show.
Evolution Studios is part of Codemasters and they do nothing but racing games. I'm sure we'll see something special coming soon. Maybe even a spiritual successor. Hopefully they cater more towards sim fans than arcade racer fans though for their next racing installment. Hell I wouldn't even be surprised if we see a new GRID with the Evolution team running the show.
D'ultimate
Member
I feel the same. Especially when people keep bringing up the weather. Yes, the weather was great...@1080p/30!
Get back to me when they duplicate it at 60fps.
psn
Member
True, but there is more than IQ. IQ is not a big achievement imo, because you can bruteforce it (on pc) with downsampling if you need it that bad. Still - it helps having a great IQ. It is a tradeoff on consoles. And the best imo. The first thing I would do to get more performance is turning off the AA. But that is just my personal preference.
Thats true, the weather in Forza is a plus. I loved it in Driveclub, in Forza Horizon its nice (and not bad looking at all, just not comparable to Driveclub).
And I guess you are right, every game has its strengths.
TrojanBlade
Member
Well that's why I was saying I am pissed at Sony for closing them down. They would have maybe achieved that. But we won't find out any more.
Also every one knows DC is @30 fps. But that does not take away their tech mastery. Especially when it was a new game made for a new console. Given more time and matureness of the console, they could have achieved more. So stop saying DC doesn't count.
potatohead
Member
yes, ingame graphics is very important....
and GT wins by far
No matter how high resolution the Forza screens are made the fundamental asset quality that is there is so greatly inferior to GT that it doesn't matter.
If the asset quality were nearer, simply increased resolution would make Forza look better and cleaner, but as it is Polyphony is untouchable.
And they are untouchable not only in the car games domain, but in general in taking real world things and transferring to game assets, the meticulous detail is simply not comparable to anything else out there because it's too fucking good.
The car materials in this particular shot for Forza are shockingly poor, you can just glance at it and tell that's not how looking across the car from the driver's seat looks anything like in any car.
Yeah that is no doubt a GT improvement. Huge difference. Forza doesn't look too bad though. GT is just on another level.
Baroquemantic
Member
Nah, I'll bring it up when I want to whenever weather and/or lighting and time of day is discussed. When it's topped, I'll gladly shut up about it.
I think DC interiors look best in this department as well, at least compared to Forza and GT.
potatohead
Member
DC of course yeah has the 30 fps benefit but indeed the lighting overall in all aspects especially in terms of realtime stuff is way ahead of anything in the 60 fps racers.
Would've been nice to have a Pro patch or sequel for the game, or even a PC version as clearly impossible as that would be.
Having DC with 60 fps, HDR support, and 4K or CB 4K, now that would've been fucking amazing. The game at 1080p30 still looks bonkers too anyway. Best spiritual successor to PGR and NFS classic series easily.
Would've been nice to have a Pro patch or sequel for the game, or even a PC version as clearly impossible as that would be.
Having DC with 60 fps, HDR support, and 4K or CB 4K, now that would've been fucking amazing. The game at 1080p30 still looks bonkers too anyway. Best spiritual successor to PGR and NFS classic series easily.
I've been playing the demo for more than 2 hours now and while it's definitely better in ways, I can't agree that it's on another level. I would like to play both final games to accurately compare but while impressive, I'm not creaming my pants as much as some here.
Thankfully they improved the draw distance of the shadows where it's not even noticeable, huge plus there. The lighting is amazing, especially in HDR. Headlights casts shadows, tail/headlights have a very natural glow to them, and the environmental lighting is very well done. Material shader work is top notch, both in and outside the cars. The way the environmental lights, whether it's spotlights or sun, bounces off the cars is especially impressive. Foliage also looks better than the pictures I've seen of Forza. One thing GT always outdoes other racers is the replay cameras, they look amazing. The overall IQ is very solid and clean.
Still some things stick out to me. While clean, there is still some visible aliasing, especially in the cockpit view. Sub-pixel shimmering shows on some fences and other thin objects. Shadows look great for the most part but some artifacts can still be seen. Shadow flicker is also visible in some conditions. While foliage looks better than the pictures I've seen of Forza, it can still look poor in some lighting conditions. Track side detail looks great but some lower resolution textures can be found here and there.
Overall it's a much more consistent package than earlier builds. Looks amazing no doubt. However both this and the Forza demo are far too different for me to accurately compare. From what I have played of both though, to say that either is on another level is a bit much IMO.
Fredrik
Member
Yeah that wasn't looking too hot I can agree on that. But other than the rally tracks I'm quite honestly blown away by how good this looks now that I can see it on my own TV. I'm sure that there are smaller details that the other games does better but imo the overall look of GTS still outshines everything else in my opinion. And I'm so happy that the cockpit cam wasn't completely static like it looked in the earlier videos/gifs!
Have you played Forza 7 on a 4K screen?
Because I had the same reaction. It looks insane in person. Screenshots and YouTube videos don't do it justice. Especially during moments when the sun breaks through weather.
Inviusx
Member
yes, ingame graphics is very important....
and GT wins by far
The leather texture in Forza is horrible. Dat steering wheel.
I think it is on another level of realism as far as the cars are concerned. I didn't say anything else about the games really. I don't have an Xone anymore, and I don't have F7 because it is not on Steam.
I'll do it when I have time but Driveclub's cockpit materials look much worse/not as realistic.
Btw, where are your Forza 7 screens bud? Haven't seen you in a while.
Fredrik
Member
Still waiting on my X for that but yeah it's certainly a looker with some ToD/weather combos! I guess Forza 7 is similar to Driveclub in that regard, both games can look really dull in some ToD/weather settings while looking amazing in others. GTS goes for predetermined ToD /weather settings which usually looks fantastic.
Sidenote, is it possible to remove the in-game steering wheel from the cockpit view in GTS when using a steering wheel of your own?
Mr. PlayStation
Member
All I'm saying is that I'm not blown away at all when it comes to gameplay graphics. Neither IQ, lod swaps and pop in, obvious pop out in rear mirrors makes me believe this is a generation above anything like some are saying.
It still does look very good, though, many times.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Yeah it's not that Driveclub's cockpit materials are bad either, but have been surpassed.
wumster3000
Member
How many people have actually played Forza 7 and not just comparing a screenshot to what you are physically playing? I have both games running in front of me on a 4k HDR OLED. This GTS looks better by far is not what Im seeing. Playing GTS does not look like the replays and screenshots. I would never call it ugly by any means. In fact, its an absolutely beautiful racer. PD engineer some of the best graphics every generation.
With that said, Ive seen some questionable texture work and a horrid crowd on the Northern Isle track.
Granted Forza 7 is not the best looking game in the world, but this thread makes it seem like its garbage. Im not seeing that.
With that said, Ive seen some questionable texture work and a horrid crowd on the Northern Isle track.
Granted Forza 7 is not the best looking game in the world, but this thread makes it seem like its garbage. Im not seeing that.
I don't have FM7 yet. Unfortunately I've been way too busy with life to sit down and purchase it. I'll get it with my One X this November, but probably won't spend any meaningful time with it until 2018 unfortunately.
To answer the framerate question they both run well on PS4 Pro, admittedly I chose to run GTS in performance mode rather than quality when given the option at demo start. I've noticed a minor amount of screen tear in PC2 when I've had a large field with very wet weather and lots of screen effects but its a massive improvement on the wet performance in the first game.
Visually its hard to compare like for like as they are both doing quite different things. PC2 has the full dynamic weather and time of day so a lot of the time it can look amazing especially with the track surface changes, but occasionally you get a combination that just looks flat. GTS doesn't have any of the dynamic time of day or weather (so far) so is immediately in deficit but goes for a broadcast look and achieves something outstandingly realistic at times. There's no one element of GTS visually in game that is better than PC2 but GTS uses a measured approach so everything comes together into something more than the sum of its parts, with the lighting and shaders used selling the environment well in most of the baked time of day settings it gives you.
For my two cents, gameplay wise, GTS is easier out of the box and has more to do outside of just driving. But PC2 is a better racing game when you have it dialled in to your preferences, but it does take some effort to do.
I'll enjoy both for what they are, and see how they improve over the next 12 months. PC2 needs to quash some bugs and become more approachable and consistent whilst GTS needs to grow its track roster and begin offering some of the weather options PC2 already gives you.
Thanks for posting actual gameplay shots! I guess this is from amateur? The aliasing looks like I saw it yesterday. I wonder how it might look when downsampled.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Of course it isn't.
Some people just like to overexagerate Forza's problems to win arguments, that's all.
TBiddy
Member
The compromises needed to reach 60 FPS reveal themselves clear as day in these shots. Just as they do in gameplay shots from FM7, PC2 etc.
Without the a actual number of people who work on the car modeling at PD, that value (5 years) doesnt mean much.
dr guildo
Member
Pro, the last shot is from performance mode, not quality mode, hence the aliasing during photomode without post process.
Ah, interesting, thanks! But then I wonder where the aliasing from the first three shots come from. Either way, this is better for an actual discussion than posting replay shots.
dr guildo
Member
The aliasing on the last shot is much more pronounced because this is a zoomed image during photomode display screen, the original is twice smaller.
I will take shots during free cam tonight