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The state of NeoGAF

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T

torre_avenue

Banned
This feels like a purge of NeoGAF’s “radical elements” by this blase statement.

Ultimately, it feels like you’re trying to get rid of the people who loved this site and wanted to contribute to it and just see it flourish in favor of those who see art as decidedly non-political and in a vacuum. This feels restrictive and ultimately balances NeoGAF to the wrong set of elements. The elements who want video games to be less appealing to women or minorities because they don’t care. The kind that think rap belongs exclusively on BET. The elements that seek to undermine real peoples’ concerns about the lack of diversity in games because it doesn’t affect them.

Keep your members full of apathy and straight up dislike at times for anything vaguely progressive in games. But the reason NeoGAF needs to be so staunchly liberal is because it was the only site willing to progress the social politics of games. As an Indian kid playing games, I was always sad to never see a character represent me in the games I played growing up. Now, because of the conversation NeoGAF inspired and the critiques it gave, there are games out there that show me. This would have never happened under what this site wants to become.

I don’t know whether or not I’ll get banned for this, but regardless, to do what you’re doing is to make NeoGAF no better than 4chan or r/gaming: by making it insular, divorcing it from anything vaguely political, and refusing to have a conversation, all that’s happening is the tainting of NeoGAF’s legacy.

Thanks for everything, GAF, and shouts out to all the GAF-Hop members that made this site worth browsing.
 
A

AlexIIDX

Member
Ive been lurking GAF for like 6 years and a member for 4 now and ive never once gone into OT. This is all crazy to me. I just wanna be able to talk about video games.
 
Y

You Pay This Much

Member
Evilore!

I honestly thought that the situation was blown out of proportion, and that you honestly thought that things were going somewhere, but they didn't. The whole situation seems reasonable to think events might occur between you two. I thought MAYBE you just made a poor judgment call and didn't deserve all the hate you had been receiving.

Then I read this. I think what you said about all this was to cover your ass as a "catch all" so no one is upset of those who are still listening. So I still think it was an honest drunk mistake.

Am I right?
PM.
 
X

x24hrs2livex

Banned
I was starting to go through GAF withdrawl. 2 days is a long time not to browse GAF. Glad its back.


I dont agree with the no political discussions rule though. Any topic can turn ugly. Sports, anime, games and politics, anything.

But hey, if thats the way it is thats the way it is I guess.
 
H

HammerFace

Banned
Thanks a lot Gaf. But I'm done. Regardless of whether these are just things you've 'just heard' about Evilore, his behavior in the past few weeks has been bullshit and incredibly telling. Blaming OT isn't the way but its a good scapegoat. Congrats.

Anyway, anyone who wants to leave is welcome to the new forums.

By the way Evilore, fuck off dipshit.
 
B

bomblord1

Banned
autoduelist said:
You know what I've always hated most about Neogaf?

I rarely felt like I could speak my mind. You risked being called something terrible for simply asking a question, or asking for more evidence, or simply being on the fence about something. I realize people hate toxicity, but the ban culture here -fostered- toxicity because the bandwagon attack mobs were allowed to shower insults at will... even if the insults themselves were hate driven ['cunt', for example].

If you asked a question, you were accused of baiting. Do you guys realize how toxic that is? People should always be allowed to ask questions. If you asked for more evidence, you were done. Heck, I fucking hate Trump. But if I mention that? Then clearly, I'm lying... right? I'm just setting up for something else. Bullshit. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. I've been far more left than almost every one here for longer than most here have been alive... but just because I don't agree with their agenda I risk being painted as a fascist, which is absurd. That's a culture of fear. That's censorship through ideology shaming. I guarantee my anarchy trumps your fucking Clinton loving nonsense, but god forbid I say anything against Clinton, because I get painted as a Trump loving fascist. That's sick. Sick, sick, sick. Broken minds led by broken ideology ruled by broken moderation that can't handle being questioned.

Now, you know what? I don't know if you're guilty of anything. I don't know if what was said to happen happened, and honestly, even if it did, I don't know what signals were or weren't sent, or what level of miscommunication happened. So I don't particularly like that you were summarily executed by mob. My guess is you're full of shit... but I know that's just a guess. I know I have no idea. And I won't execute you for it, just like I wouldn't execute Naughty Dog, even though it was so much fun for people here to leap to ridiculous conclusions based on a single tweet.

But you know what? You fostered an environment that summarily executes with no evidence. So while I hate it, and I'll -always- be on the side of 'wait for more information' regardless of the topic, I can't say I can't see the sick humor of it all. Some people need to learn by example, and if you're truly innocent of all charges, then I hope next time someone gets accused of something you support the presumption of innocence. This is not saying I don't think horrible things happen all the time - they do... my wife has been sexually harassed at work and I know how hard it is to come forward and rock the boat.

If you're guilty, then I hope you learn. Evolve. Grow. Become a better person. Everyone can change, even though some swear no one can.

If you're innocent, then also learn. Evolve. Grow. The culture of 'no proof needed' you fostered is sick... it flies in the face of everything our collective cultures have learned and fought for over the past few millennia. You reaped what you sowed, and it's either ironic, or horrifying, based on your guilt... which I can never know.

I'll probably get banned for this post. I don't think I said anything worth being banned for. In fact, I think this is a pretty fair assessment of both your actions, the accusations against you, and the general culture of this site. If you ban me, fine. If you don't, I'll still be here, posting, because, honestly, I don't judge a community on a single individual member. Heck, I don't judge -you- based on actions of a previous you, because I know people change over time.

People learn. People grow. People evolve. Maybe you have, maybe you haven't. Now it's time for you to do so, and in the process, evolve this site so it doesn't become an echo chamber of toxicity against anything deemed toxic.
Click to expand...

I wanted to quote you and say I agree but my first thought was I was legitimately scared that I would be moved by people saying I'm defending a rapist encouraging something that ends in culture and attacked on other grounds of being a gamergate supporter or a white supremacist for wanting to agree with a fairly neutral post.

I have to say gaf really did a number on me I almost never speak my mind anymore on the internet after being hate mobbed and temp banned a few times for what I legitimately thought were fairly innocent questions or stances. Usually taking a wait for the evidence on a topic of fairly serious allegations would also end badly. Even at this point I'm thinking someone is going to dig through my post history after seeing this and find some kind of serious allegation against me. It's even seeped into my personal life.

At some points I would say gaf scared me more than 4 Chan especially "detective gaf" who would find some insane thing someone said years or even longer ago, dig deep into people's personal life, or bring up some random contributor to a game and say anyone who supported it was the scum of the earth and turn those random bits of info into massive controversy. I'm probably a hypocrite too because I'm sure I've in some ways participated, encouraged, or cheered on similar behavior in the past when it aligned with my beliefs.

On the topic of the actual allegations it was handled about as horridly as possible and on the case of it despite evilores assurance to the contrary I have a hard time believing him after the crap show that was the last few days. I'll probably be using an adblocker on here until definitive evidence is given that proves something one way or another.
 
ramuh

ramuh

Member
commedieu said:
Finally.

It will be weird not having a pack of minorities go chimp on you for voicing different opinions. But we will adjust.
Click to expand...

EH, I felt there was a lot of good threads about minority struggles in the current political climate. But it did feel like having a different opinion meant that you knew that posting a alternative stance could get you banned by a mod .
 
C

clemenx

Banned
That statement is fucking trash. It was almost impossible for him to look worse saying something than staying silent but this cunt did it lmao.
 
P

PG2G

Member
OrangeJulius said:
Dude, she literally slept with him afterwards and remained friends for a time. He read some signals wrong while drunk. He fucked up for sure. Nobody was raped or murdered. In a more sane time, both of them would've laughed it off nervously the next day and gone about their life.

If this happened just ten or fifteen or so years ago it woudn't of been a big deal to anyone, to Tyler, to her, and likely most of all the GAF community at large.

But everyone has to be a victim now for social brownie points, so carry on.
Click to expand...

Glad that I'm not the only one that doesn't see what the big deal is
 
E

ec0ec0

Member
This "trial by internet" is madness.

Someone made a post on social media. That was it.

No one has been proven guilty of anything. There hasn't even been a formal accusation.

No one was "sexualy asaulted", like all the headlines are saying. Come on now. The guy and the girl continued to be friends and had a sexual relasionship after the shower incident.

Why is everyone already so sure that something awful happened? wanting to be banned? asking for such a huge community to disappear?
 
S

ShadyJ

Member
Glad to see we are back up and running! I would like to throw my hat in the ring if there is any need for mods or help in any capacity, im sure it is taken care of but I'm here if need be.
 
A

Alienfan

Member
You guys read his views on consent right? Even without this recent allegation, even if you don't believe her, the stuff he's said himself around consent is quite abhorrent
 
N

NimbusD

Member
The Albatross said:
The way this is all being handled is inexcusably bad, it's just a master class in bad executive decisions. There isn't much community left here, but removing the Off Topic forum because the owner of the website allegedly did something disgusting several years ago -- and was identifies -- is punishing the community for disgusting decisions that the owner of the website made.

Evilore, the Off Topic forum did not make you make the wrong decision or do the wrong thing 2 years ago or 5 years ago. The Off Topic forum did not make Amir0x download child pornography. Yes, the Off Topic forum exposes risk for your business (these three issues are examples of that risk), but the reason your business is a business is largely because the site has both a gaming discussion area (which I think is the initial draw for most members) and then an off topic area (which most members also chat in). I think most people here became members to chat about videogames, but then naturally, you chat about other things you're interested in -- sports, movies, music, or the really specific topics like the Black Culture threads, developer/programming threads, or the communities like WrassleGaf or NFLGaf. Punishing those communities because you or your former staff are exposing your business to risk with poor choices is not the right way to handle this.

There have been a number of high profile sexual assaults in the news lately, and while most folks are talking about Harvey Weinstein, Liberty Mutual -- the investment firm -- has also recently fired two employees for sexual misconduct at the workplace. It wouldn't be right for Liberty Mutual to say, "We're not having the company Christmas Party, because Christmas parties is what got us into this mess in the first place," or "We're not going to participate in social out reach because social out reach has made us look like hypocrites with these sexual assaults." No, because it's not The Christmas Party or the Social outreach program that's causing the problem: It's bad, hurtful, or illegal decisions made by you or by some former staff members.

You've always had a reputation for making brash decisions, and most of these have not faired well for you. Poorly thought out statements about Amir0x that bent the truth, came too late, and just weren't handled correctly; decisions to ban certain topics from being discussed; decisions to ban certain members or former staff, and scores of others. This, though, is clearly the worst decision and it shows in inability to accept fault. This decisions seems to simply be another projection: "I've made bad decisions in my life and business, and so the business must be punished." That doesn't make any sense, it's selfish and delusional.

You have an opportunity to make the right decision. Obviously you feel like this site is your baby and "it's your's," but this business exists in spite of you, not because of you. It can be hard for a CEO or business owner to give up something that they think is theirs, many CEOs resist this and are befuddled when their board ousts them for a business that they themselves launched. The right thing for you to do would have been to announce that you're taking an indefinite leave of absence from NeoGaf. Revenue from the site would be put into an escrow account to cover expenses and hire staff who would manage it in your absence. A board of staff (moderators, admins) would be formed to hire staff who would manage the site and support the community. Those would be base level decisions which would ensure, at least, some integrity with the site which would keep at least some members around. The site would persist and could possibly bounce back, ultimately you wouldn't be punishing your customers or your business for your own bad decision. Instead, you made the wrong decision with how this was handled and then continually made the wrong decision with how you're going to move forward with this, instead of holding yourself accountable, you're punishing the community that has made your business successful.

It shows an utter lack of self-awareness which then also undermines any integrity that you're trying to preserve against allegations like the ones you're facing.
Click to expand...

Yeah pretty much this. Had this been handled differently, there's enough reasonable doubt that I could feel comfortable continuing to frequent here, as I have been for 12 fucking years.

But this just made it abundantly clear that the owner of this site, who I never had much of an opinion on before, cares more about what's his than the survival of this community. The stories that have come up about how he's acted before, personally and professionally as owner/admin cement that fact to me. I wouldn't be surprised if, when he gets around to it, all of us who say he handled this wrong are just banned, that seems to be his style.

Can't imagine this place does anything other than slowly fades, especially as alternatives show up.
 
R

rjc571

Banned
The response to the allegations against Evilore makes me weep for the future of humanity. What the fuck happened to due process? Should every single person accused of wrongdoing be burned at the stake immediately with no opportunity to present their side of the story?
 
A

ahoyle77

Member
As someone who has been here, although mostly as a lurker, since the gaming-age days, glad the site is back. Maybe I wasn't active enough to witness a lot of what people are saying, but for movie, gaming, and technology news this was a great place for me.

I don't understand the rush to judgement here by some. Do you abandon every company immediately if an accusation is made about it or one of it's board?
 
R

RastaMentality

Banned
If you don't like the forum as it is, you can just leave instead of trolling!
345047875530653696.png
 
F

Frost Walrus

Member
Trying to salvage this place after that weekend is kind of pathetic honestly. I liked using this place as a quick news source and a way to see what people were saying about certain games, but those days are pretty well done now that the userbase and communities have fled from this place. Let it die.
 
Y

You Are Viewtiful

Member
Cheebo said:
To those who want the old OT GAf:

S
L
A
E
N
T
.com

Sports, Film, Box Office, Anime, Comics, etc GAF all moved there.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this. I came to GAF for OT. I'm going to miss a lot of the regular posters there.

Can someone send me the invite link for the LGBTQ+-GAF Discord? I intended to ask for it earlier, but then the whole fiasco started. I was scared that community was gone forever (and I guess it sort of is but we'll see) :(
 
MrToast

MrToast

Member
Full Recovery said:
I'm here for the community, Not Evilore or the mods. The community. This whole thing has been handled poorly. What a mess.
Click to expand...

The community is still here, no reason to panic, you're just seeing an orchestrated and fake exodus by sleeper accounts waiting for a moment like this.
 
Laughing Banana

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
Not entirely sure anonymous modding is the correct way of doing things. In the long run, I feel like it will breed distrust among the community towards the administration of this site. I personally think it's a bad idea.

Having various mods converse and communicate with us plebian folks give this place a friendlier face, a humane face--making them all anonymous will create a police-state like atmosphere, and I feel it's not really aligned with the spirit of transparency, which I am sure this site actually needs in order to create good faith among its users.
 
A

AkumaNiko

Member
HeWhoWalks said:
Oh yeah, this is quite appropriate. /s

If some of you "hate" this place so much, and want to ridicule a man without even the slightest shred of tangible evidence, then take off. Many of us still appreciate what GAF has to offer.
Click to expand...

if he had no prior known altercations with this kind of thing, maybe it would be different, but its not the first time, he has admitted to grabbing a chicks ass simply because he bought her a drink
 
ramuh

ramuh

Member
D4Danger said:
because it's a discussion forum and people are asking questions and providing feedback

what's the fucking point if it's one way traffic?

Last time people had question the OT got nuked. Doesn't bode well for the future.
Click to expand...

It's not one way traffic? He put out a detailed post on what he thought the situation was. Maybe he has to either admin the site (lack of mods) or start looking for a few new ones. Do you expect him to respond to every <fuck you you piece of shit> post?
 
S

ScientificPizza

Banned
Anyway EviLore is a coward and very obviously dipped after dropping this weak as hell statement.

You're a coward and an abuser and you need to leave this site and hand it over to someone else.

Until that happens I'm gonna bounce
 
A

Alienous

Member
I do think, at the least, restricting the Off-Topic to |OT|-like threads would be a good compromise between having the Off-Topic return in its entirety and being locked off for some indeterminate amount of time.

I don't think a return to normalcy can be expected when a large part of the website is missing. It's such a bizarre and sudden situation, and I'm not sure I see how it benefits the community.
 
M

Mulberry

Member
Do the right thing, take the "L", sell NeoGAF and find something else to do with your life. It will never be anything like it was before, especially without the OT. You may own the body, but not the soul of NeoGAF.
 
B

BananasWithGuns

Member
Eh, for the time being I'm sticking around on a wait and see basis.

Regardless of the allegations, the community is what makes this place what it is. I don't plan on forgetting that.
 
M

Megasoum

Banned
Frost Walrus said:
Trying to salvage this place after that weekend is kind of pathetic honestly. I liked using this place as a quick news source and a way to see what people were saying about certain games, but those days are clearly done. Let it die.
Click to expand...

The dude is living off the forum's ads and he never had any other job... Can't wait for the site to crash and burn and seeing Evilore mopping shit at Walmart
 
D

Diagol

Member
The Albatross said:
The way this is all being handled is inexcusably bad, it's just a master class in bad executive decisions. There isn't much community left here, but removing the Off Topic forum because the owner of the website allegedly did something disgusting several years ago -- and was identifies -- is punishing the community for disgusting decisions that the owner of the website made.

Evilore, the Off Topic forum did not make you make the wrong decision or do the wrong thing 2 years ago or 5 years ago. The Off Topic forum did not make Amir0x download child pornography. Yes, the Off Topic forum exposes risk for your business (these three issues are examples of that risk), but the reason your business is a business is largely because the site has both a gaming discussion area (which I think is the initial draw for most members) and then an off topic area (which most members also chat in). I think most people here became members to chat about videogames, but then naturally, you chat about other things you're interested in -- sports, movies, music, or the really specific topics like the Black Culture threads, developer/programming threads, or the communities like WrassleGaf or NFLGaf. Punishing those communities because you or your former staff are exposing your business to risk with poor choices is not the right way to handle this.

There have been a number of high profile sexual assaults in the news lately, and while most folks are talking about Harvey Weinstein, Liberty Mutual -- the investment firm -- has also recently fired two employees for sexual misconduct at the workplace. It wouldn't be right for Liberty Mutual to say, "We're not having the company Christmas Party, because Christmas parties is what got us into this mess in the first place," or "We're not going to participate in social out reach because social out reach has made us look like hypocrites with these sexual assaults." No, because it's not The Christmas Party or the Social outreach program that's causing the problem: It's bad, hurtful, or illegal decisions made by you or by some former staff members.

You've always had a reputation for making brash decisions, and most of these have not faired well for you. Poorly thought out statements about Amir0x that bent the truth, came too late, and just weren't handled correctly; decisions to ban certain topics from being discussed; decisions to ban certain members or former staff, and scores of others. This, though, is clearly the worst decision and it shows in inability to accept fault. This decisions seems to simply be another projection: "I've made bad decisions in my life and business, and so the business must be punished." That doesn't make any sense, it's selfish and delusional.

You have an opportunity to make the right decision. Obviously you feel like this site is your baby and "it's your's," but this business exists in spite of you, not because of you. It can be hard for a CEO or business owner to give up something that they think is theirs, many CEOs resist this and are befuddled when their board ousts them for a business that they themselves launched. The right thing for you to do would have been to announce that you're taking an indefinite leave of absence from NeoGaf. Revenue from the site would be put into an escrow account to cover expenses and hire staff who would manage it in your absence. A board of staff (moderators, admins) would be formed to hire staff who would manage the site and support the community. Those would be base level decisions which would ensure, at least, some integrity with the site which would keep at least some members around. The site would persist and could possibly bounce back, ultimately you wouldn't be punishing your customers or your business for your own bad decision. Instead, you made the wrong decision with how this was handled and then continually made the wrong decision with how you're going to move forward with this, instead of holding yourself accountable, you're punishing the community that has made your business successful.

It shows an utter lack of self-awareness which then also undermines any integrity that you're trying to preserve against allegations like the ones you're facing.
Click to expand...

Best post.
 
S

StoneFox

Member
Through thick and thin, I will stay on Neogaf because I like this community above any politics or drama.

I'm hoping after a few days things will calm down and the forum as a whole can grow past this.
 
CharmingCharlie

CharmingCharlie

Member
OrangeJulius said:
But everyone has to be a victim now for social brownie points, so carry on.
Click to expand...

I so read that as Social BIOWARE points and wondered what on earth is going on for a second there. Honestly I don't think there is any point trying to talk reason with these people. In their mind Evilore is guilty of whatever the hell they want him to be guilty of and nothing will change their view of that.
 
R

RiZ III

Member
Thanks for keeping this place going. I'm honestly surprised by the crazy overreaction by so many people here especially considering all the facts weren't and aren't out. What one individual does or doesn't do doesn't have anything to do with the community here. This place belongs to and is made by the people here, not to any one individual. I don't come here because of some personal affinity to evilore or any of the other mods. I don't even know them. I come here for the great threads and discussions by the thousands of members here and I know one thing, there is no other online community that can replace gaf. So thanks to the folks dedicating their time and effort in keeping gaf going.
 
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