OnixVerumi
Banned
Ban me, asswipe.
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The state of NeoGAF
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
- Status
Ban me, asswipe.
-Mutsukki-
Member
A lot of the mods who left loved their personality (and I'm sure their power, some of them were the last ones to let go), it's definitely better off this way
Setzer
Member
Sadly, that would require some maturity on the part of these people who are quick to judge and slander someone.
blame space
Banned
I hope we all die.
Aces&Eights
Member
I'm staying here. Lots of stone throwers out there it seems and if people need to dog pile on someone without any evidence whatsover, then by all means, make your dumb ban me thread and go. I want to discuss things with other human beings who can have discussions without resorting to flame attacks that have no merit. If 90% of OT leaves the good riddance.
This seems nice. My favorite forum community will always be from RottenTomatoes. It was small, most people didn't know it existed on the movie site, and the community was fairly mature (although I was still very young when I posted there). I'm going to see how active it is, but I would love to be in a small community again.
The Albatross
Member
The way this is all being handled is inexcusably bad, it's just a master class in bad executive decisions. There isn't much community left here, but removing the Off Topic forum because the owner of the website allegedly did something disgusting several years ago -- and was identifies -- is punishing the community for disgusting decisions that the owner of the website made.
Evilore, the Off Topic forum did not make you make the wrong decision or do the wrong thing 2 years ago or 5 years ago. The Off Topic forum did not make Amir0x download child pornography. Yes, the Off Topic forum exposes risk for your business (these three issues are examples of that risk), but the reason your business is a business is largely because the site has both a gaming discussion area (which I think is the initial draw for most members) and then an off topic area (which most members also chat in). I think most people here became members to chat about videogames, but then naturally, you chat about other things you're interested in -- sports, movies, music, or the really specific topics like the Black Culture threads, developer/programming threads, or the communities like WrassleGaf or NFLGaf. Punishing those communities because you or your former staff are exposing your business to risk with poor choices is not the right way to handle this.
There have been a number of high profile sexual assaults in the news lately, and while most folks are talking about Harvey Weinstein, Liberty Mutual -- the investment firm -- has also recently fired two employees for sexual misconduct at the workplace. It wouldn't be right for Liberty Mutual to say, "We're not having the company Christmas Party, because Christmas parties is what got us into this mess in the first place," or "We're not going to participate in social out reach because social out reach has made us look like hypocrites with these sexual assaults." No, because it's not The Christmas Party or the Social outreach program that's causing the problem: It's bad, hurtful, or illegal decisions made by you or by some former staff members.
You've always had a reputation for making brash decisions, and most of these have not faired well for you. Poorly thought out statements about Amir0x that bent the truth, came too late, and just weren't handled correctly; decisions to ban certain topics from being discussed; decisions to ban certain members or former staff, and scores of others. This, though, is clearly the worst decision and it shows in inability to accept fault. This decisions seems to simply be another projection: "I've made bad decisions in my life and business, and so the business must be punished." That doesn't make any sense, it's selfish and delusional.
You have an opportunity to make the right decision. Obviously you feel like this site is your baby and "it's your's," but this business exists in spite of you, not because of you. It can be hard for a CEO or business owner to give up something that they think is theirs, many CEOs resist this and are befuddled when their board ousts them for a business that they themselves launched. The right thing for you to do would have been to announce that you're taking an indefinite leave of absence from NeoGaf. Revenue from the site would be put into an escrow account to cover expenses and hire staff who would manage it in your absence. A board of staff (moderators, admins) would be formed to hire staff who would manage the site and support the community. Those would be base level decisions which would ensure, at least, some integrity with the site which would keep at least some members around. The site would persist and could possibly bounce back, ultimately you wouldn't be punishing your customers or your business for your own bad decision. Instead, you made the wrong decision with how this was handled and then continually made the wrong decision with how you're going to move forward with this, instead of holding yourself accountable, you're punishing the community that has made your business successful.
It shows an utter lack of self-awareness which then also undermines any integrity that you're trying to preserve against allegations like the ones you're facing.
Evilore, the Off Topic forum did not make you make the wrong decision or do the wrong thing 2 years ago or 5 years ago. The Off Topic forum did not make Amir0x download child pornography. Yes, the Off Topic forum exposes risk for your business (these three issues are examples of that risk), but the reason your business is a business is largely because the site has both a gaming discussion area (which I think is the initial draw for most members) and then an off topic area (which most members also chat in). I think most people here became members to chat about videogames, but then naturally, you chat about other things you're interested in -- sports, movies, music, or the really specific topics like the Black Culture threads, developer/programming threads, or the communities like WrassleGaf or NFLGaf. Punishing those communities because you or your former staff are exposing your business to risk with poor choices is not the right way to handle this.
There have been a number of high profile sexual assaults in the news lately, and while most folks are talking about Harvey Weinstein, Liberty Mutual -- the investment firm -- has also recently fired two employees for sexual misconduct at the workplace. It wouldn't be right for Liberty Mutual to say, "We're not having the company Christmas Party, because Christmas parties is what got us into this mess in the first place," or "We're not going to participate in social out reach because social out reach has made us look like hypocrites with these sexual assaults." No, because it's not The Christmas Party or the Social outreach program that's causing the problem: It's bad, hurtful, or illegal decisions made by you or by some former staff members.
You've always had a reputation for making brash decisions, and most of these have not faired well for you. Poorly thought out statements about Amir0x that bent the truth, came too late, and just weren't handled correctly; decisions to ban certain topics from being discussed; decisions to ban certain members or former staff, and scores of others. This, though, is clearly the worst decision and it shows in inability to accept fault. This decisions seems to simply be another projection: "I've made bad decisions in my life and business, and so the business must be punished." That doesn't make any sense, it's selfish and delusional.
You have an opportunity to make the right decision. Obviously you feel like this site is your baby and "it's your's," but this business exists in spite of you, not because of you. It can be hard for a CEO or business owner to give up something that they think is theirs, many CEOs resist this and are befuddled when their board ousts them for a business that they themselves launched. The right thing for you to do would have been to announce that you're taking an indefinite leave of absence from NeoGaf. Revenue from the site would be put into an escrow account to cover expenses and hire staff who would manage it in your absence. A board of staff (moderators, admins) would be formed to hire staff who would manage the site and support the community. Those would be base level decisions which would ensure, at least, some integrity with the site which would keep at least some members around. The site would persist and could possibly bounce back, ultimately you wouldn't be punishing your customers or your business for your own bad decision. Instead, you made the wrong decision with how this was handled and then continually made the wrong decision with how you're going to move forward with this, instead of holding yourself accountable, you're punishing the community that has made your business successful.
It shows an utter lack of self-awareness which then also undermines any integrity that you're trying to preserve against allegations like the ones you're facing.
Like the hat?
Banned
Removing the ot removed the community I feel like I've been a part of for ten years.
ScientificPizza
Banned
Gutting OT is not the answer to this. This is not because of political tensions or constant stress, it's because *you* sexually assaulted someone, and when those allegations came to light you handled it in the worst way you could have possibly handled it. Everything that has happened over the last few days rests entirely on your shoulders EviLore, no one elses, and to try and shift that blame to anyone or anywhere else is cowardly at best.
This is not political, it is not the fault of OT or "the internet", this is all because of your inability to deal with who you are as a person and handle this situation with any kind of civility, composure, or professionalism.
This website only has a future without you in it.
This is not political, it is not the fault of OT or "the internet", this is all because of your inability to deal with who you are as a person and handle this situation with any kind of civility, composure, or professionalism.
This website only has a future without you in it.
Hillary Clinton's house
Hello? This is Hailun!
Member
She never accused him of rape?
According to her he never laid her hands on her, and even ignored her to the point where she felt awkward about being ignored.
Professor Crate
Banned
I have ad-block on.
Vanguard771
Member
If you really want GAF to change for the better. Ban those who show an utter lack of respect for their fellow posters. There was rarely a comment that didn't end in a snarky insult directed at another poster. Civil discussion can only be had amongst civil people.
Captain Zyrain
Member
What a crazy turn of events over the last weekend.
I will say my day at work was a lot more productive than nomal today!
I will say my day at work was a lot more productive than nomal today!
breadtruck
Member
LOL. They got every single one, thats for sure.
But yeah, Im just here to talk about the games man.
It will come back. Right now, they are cleaning up gaming side. Just give it time. Let people flame out.
FiddyShadeJ
Banned
I mean, who here can honestly say they haven't snuck up on someone throwing up in the shower without proper consent.
Let he who is without his dick out grab the first ass.
Let he who is without his dick out grab the first ass.
My statement from earlier in the thread aside, I feel like I need to comment on the rest of this statement. This response is unacceptably late, the changes to moderation are unacceptably opaque, and the changes to OT are unenforceable in the long term, and that's assuming willing moderators can even be found.
Based on the quotes in the Waypoint article, as well as the general response to this issue as it cropped up, I have no faith in this site's future nor in Evilore as a person. To put it bluntly, we have no reason to believe his denial and many reasons to doubt it. For all their issues, the rest of the mod team deserved better leader.
I'm out all, peace. See you on ResetERA.
Based on the quotes in the Waypoint article, as well as the general response to this issue as it cropped up, I have no faith in this site's future nor in Evilore as a person. To put it bluntly, we have no reason to believe his denial and many reasons to doubt it. For all their issues, the rest of the mod team deserved better leader.
I'm out all, peace. See you on ResetERA.
Fluffernutter Pancake
Member
Missed all of the events that led to this site nuking.....I really hope we get the OT and OT/Community back in full form, reasonably moderated.
There were so many great threads, political, social, silly, random. It brought balance to the community that came here first and foremost for gaming.
Having a place to talk about all the other aspects of life with the vast community of video game fans on here was a rare and special thing.
I hope it gets returned soon. I agree that this place feels distinctly cold and hollow without them and just strictly limited to gaming discussion, as strange as that sounds.....
There were so many great threads, political, social, silly, random. It brought balance to the community that came here first and foremost for gaming.
Having a place to talk about all the other aspects of life with the vast community of video game fans on here was a rare and special thing.
I hope it gets returned soon. I agree that this place feels distinctly cold and hollow without them and just strictly limited to gaming discussion, as strange as that sounds.....
Facts
nephilimdj
Member
Its kinda funny how offtopic became a place of "fuck centralists", including a few mods repeating those words. Yet we are meant to sit on a fence here.
Not sure what to think here.
Not sure what to think here.
Sweet Bellic
Member
Lol. Yeah, no "off topic" is rather disappointing. Hopefully it returns soon. Glad at least half of GAF is back though. Work felt that much longer today.
I was barely here for the video games anyway.
Hi all,
I lurked here and occasionally posted for years. It was a big part of my every day reading, and I liked being a part of certain communities. Challenging conversation changed who I was as well.
Now, I can't keep my account here after this weekend. There are better places to be on the internet, and I can't support it anymore.
See you all later. Please ban my account.
I lurked here and occasionally posted for years. It was a big part of my every day reading, and I liked being a part of certain communities. Challenging conversation changed who I was as well.
Now, I can't keep my account here after this weekend. There are better places to be on the internet, and I can't support it anymore.
See you all later. Please ban my account.
-Mutsukki-
Member
Ahahahahaahahahaha
I guess someone had to be sincere enough to say why they came to this site in the first place
Jathaine
Member
Why do I feel like this is really just so that people can't see the mod count go down if there's another shitstorm instead of the stated reason?
I'm calling a spade a spade. Bite me, bitch.
I'm disappointed Tyler, I really am. If a response to a serious allegation takes so long to be made, then it's just difficult for me to simply accept what you just said is sincere and true. It sucks because I enjoyed reading Neogaf a lot too.
I lurk once in a while these days and have not been very active in this forum for a while now. With that said, I just can't support this site any longer. I'll still enjoy playing videogames of course!
Mods, I request a permaban to my account after so many years. Goodluck fellow gaffers and see you on the other side.
I lurk once in a while these days and have not been very active in this forum for a while now. With that said, I just can't support this site any longer. I'll still enjoy playing videogames of course!
Mods, I request a permaban to my account after so many years. Goodluck fellow gaffers and see you on the other side.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Who's Dennis?
Even though I didn't post all that much, it's still very depressing seeing how things are ending up. Gaf was always a place I could find great gaming news along with great posters and communities in OT. Seeing some of my favorite commentators leaving for good and the communities I liked being a part of being restricted and being prohibited now is saddening. The community that I've been a part of for years is being torn apart and a lot of people I liked are moving on. I'll pop in every now again from now on, but I just don't see Gaf being a huge part of my internet life like it used to be.
Whether you're innocent or guilty of the allegations against you, I don't know, and I won't accuse you.
Whether the decision to close Off-Topic (temporary though it may be) is wise, considering the added damage to the community and your reputation that such an act will undoubtedly cause, is not for me to judge. Nor is the decision to further remove accountability from the moderation staff, though I feel this to be a major mistake on your part.
I do feel, though, that in the medium term or sooner, you should be seriously looking at resigning as owner and selling the forum to new management. Your reputation may be too damaged to repair, even if you can prove your innocence, you've already made too many enemies with your lacklustre response to events, and you have to know that this will follow you for the rest of the decade at least. And it'll only get worse.
If I were you, I'd get out now while the going is still good, and go radio-silent for the next year or two. Then, maybe, enough people may forget your...mistakes.
However, if you're really that determined to stick this out to the bitter end (and it will be bitter), just...don't let the alt-right GamerGate crowd take over, no matter what, even if they promise to support you. Stick up for something good, at least.
Whether the decision to close Off-Topic (temporary though it may be) is wise, considering the added damage to the community and your reputation that such an act will undoubtedly cause, is not for me to judge. Nor is the decision to further remove accountability from the moderation staff, though I feel this to be a major mistake on your part.
I do feel, though, that in the medium term or sooner, you should be seriously looking at resigning as owner and selling the forum to new management. Your reputation may be too damaged to repair, even if you can prove your innocence, you've already made too many enemies with your lacklustre response to events, and you have to know that this will follow you for the rest of the decade at least. And it'll only get worse.
If I were you, I'd get out now while the going is still good, and go radio-silent for the next year or two. Then, maybe, enough people may forget your...mistakes.
However, if you're really that determined to stick this out to the bitter end (and it will be bitter), just...don't let the alt-right GamerGate crowd take over, no matter what, even if they promise to support you. Stick up for something good, at least.
Let's at least try, right? We'll give it some time and see if we rebuild.
Dennis is an old school GAFfer. Got banned a while ago because he was super combative when it came to games.
1morerobot
Member
Waaaaaay too many holier than thou fuckers on this forum. Glad a lot of them have been weeded out.
It's a video game forum. Discuss video games, move on.
Really hope OT comes back... not sure removing the political threads is the way to go about this. I guess you could just keep them separate, that might be the best solution. I know a lot of people, myself included, used OT as a news source for things going around in the world. Surely we'd all hate to lose that, on the other hand the plans for OT don't sound bad.
I don't know Evilore, though I spoke to him a few times through pm for various reasons and he always seemed a very decent sort to me. I don't know what to think of the accusation. This sort of behaviour is unacceptable, and I would never look a person in the eye and tell them I don't believe them or they're wrong. I really hope he's telling the truth and it isn't true, but the truth should always out. It's easy to believe something like this and jump on the bandwagon. Situations like this are about as much fun for the accuser as they are for the accused, and I think a lot of people forget that. As I said, one way or another, the truth should always out.
As for all the smartasses saying Evilore will never leave the site because he loves his income too much, come the fuck on. We all know he could stop taking anything now and still live whatever life he wants to.
Initially I hadn't a clue what was going on and when I saw the news I assumed he would step down to save the site, because I think Evilore believes in GAF and what it represents. If it really happened, he still should. I know much of the community is gone and the forum may never return to prominence, but this is still a place I love. It's the first site I check on my phone in the morning and the last thing I check at night. Not having access to it for those few days was hard. I see rocky times ahead but those of us who love the forum, if there are enough of us left, we will continue to lurk, post and enjoy one of the best damn sites on the 'net. If I have a home on the 'net, it's NeoGAF.
I won't lie, I'm curious to see what Era turns out like and I hope to become a member there too. In the meantime though, I'm going to continue to enjoy GAF.
I don't know Evilore, though I spoke to him a few times through pm for various reasons and he always seemed a very decent sort to me. I don't know what to think of the accusation. This sort of behaviour is unacceptable, and I would never look a person in the eye and tell them I don't believe them or they're wrong. I really hope he's telling the truth and it isn't true, but the truth should always out. It's easy to believe something like this and jump on the bandwagon. Situations like this are about as much fun for the accuser as they are for the accused, and I think a lot of people forget that. As I said, one way or another, the truth should always out.
As for all the smartasses saying Evilore will never leave the site because he loves his income too much, come the fuck on. We all know he could stop taking anything now and still live whatever life he wants to.
Initially I hadn't a clue what was going on and when I saw the news I assumed he would step down to save the site, because I think Evilore believes in GAF and what it represents. If it really happened, he still should. I know much of the community is gone and the forum may never return to prominence, but this is still a place I love. It's the first site I check on my phone in the morning and the last thing I check at night. Not having access to it for those few days was hard. I see rocky times ahead but those of us who love the forum, if there are enough of us left, we will continue to lurk, post and enjoy one of the best damn sites on the 'net. If I have a home on the 'net, it's NeoGAF.
I won't lie, I'm curious to see what Era turns out like and I hope to become a member there too. In the meantime though, I'm going to continue to enjoy GAF.
DominusLeges
Member
That would seem to be the case yes. *sigh*
Didn't learn about any of this until now, still haven't seen the screenshots about the accusation.
This sucks all around; I hate that the mods get stuck in the middle when the main value of this website is their thankless work, it sucks that off-topic gets nuked because of this, it sucks that this gives people with awful values a victory without having to actually argue a point.
Can't really comment on the accusation since I don't know anything about it yet, but I feel like I have to consider that this is an uphill battle for the accuser and that the statistics I've seen tend to imply that false accusations are overrepresented.
I want to stay because I'm not here for EviLore or for Off-Topic, but I'm certainly feeling conflicted about it. I'm not exactly sure what the best way to handle it is but I don't feel satisfied with this. I certainly can't argue against the people who don't want to visit this site anymore.
This sucks all around; I hate that the mods get stuck in the middle when the main value of this website is their thankless work, it sucks that off-topic gets nuked because of this, it sucks that this gives people with awful values a victory without having to actually argue a point.
Can't really comment on the accusation since I don't know anything about it yet, but I feel like I have to consider that this is an uphill battle for the accuser and that the statistics I've seen tend to imply that false accusations are overrepresented.
I want to stay because I'm not here for EviLore or for Off-Topic, but I'm certainly feeling conflicted about it. I'm not exactly sure what the best way to handle it is but I don't feel satisfied with this. I certainly can't argue against the people who don't want to visit this site anymore.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Funny S L A E N T.com is a banned site on GAF. Plenty of GAF communities there and new/old faces inbound in the current times. Great dark theme and mobile site too.
Some advice Evilore...separate personal and business mate, GAF should never have been affected this way. Best of luck but after HaloGAF, some early BS personal bans and the current handling of GAF over the last 2 years your forums are no longer a ship I wish to be in with just you at the helm.
Some advice Evilore...separate personal and business mate, GAF should never have been affected this way. Best of luck but after HaloGAF, some early BS personal bans and the current handling of GAF over the last 2 years your forums are no longer a ship I wish to be in with just you at the helm.
What the fuck...
Again, you act like all of the allegations are proven to be correct. And new alt-right friends like Jontron? The hell is wrong with you? Grow up.
FinalStageBoss
Banned
No OT, no politics?? Lmao fuck this shit. Shoulda left it dead.
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