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The state of NeoGAF

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T

TsuWave

Member
KojiKnight said:
According to OP it'll be back after it's been a few weeks with a new focus on non religious, non political stuff.
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that sucks, and it doesn't strike me as a viable long term solution. community is understandably losing a bunch of members and i think this change will make it even worse

damn. gaf took a major hit
 
W

Wamb0wneD

Member
hardcastlemccormick said:
So, then, you basically don't believe any claim of sexual harassment ever?

Wow, this place turned to shit faster than you could have ever expected.



Wow, brownie points, huh? Last I checked talking about sexual harassment on the internet still garnered shit flinging, accusations, and harassment. Not unlike what is manifesting in this thread, funny enough.

I can never figure out the motive one might have to have for falsely accusing someone of sexual harassment or worse. Like, you do realize the society we live in means most of the time it gets ignored or worse, right? Or are you really just that delusional?

That's a rhetorical question, by the way.
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Even if everything she said is true I don't get how many people here talk about rape and whatnot. Obviously allegations like that should be taken seriously, but taking something seriously doesn't mean taking it at face value.

I once got asked by my girlfriend why I cheated on her while she was in tears and had no clue what she was talking about and then found out a "friend" of hers seemed to have a hobby that consisted of making up total bullshit about me. Some people are just vile assholes and yes, women naturally can be vile assholes too.

I'm not believing Evilore btw, but I'm not screaming rape and asking for a permaban because somone on the internet made an allegation. I think the people comitting account suicide like that are here for the drama and I recoginze a few people who jumped down anyones throat as soon they disagreed with them. I'm glad those people are gone.
 
Hari Seldon

Hari Seldon

Member
Glad it is back. Probably a smart move to take it down for a couple days and let shit simmer down and the truly outraged to leave. I definitely agree with the proposed OT changes.

If I could make a suggestion for consideration in your on going policy review, I would like to suggest that maybe allowing dogpile threads against individuals or devs is probably a bad idea. Nothing good ever comes of it, and as the late great Jim Lahey said, it is just a shit tornado brewing.
 
P

pixellated_man

Member
I am willing to give Evilore the benefit of the doubt and will continue to post on this forum. Innocent until proven guilty is a philosophy that seems to be under threat in today's internet mob rule culture and I don't want to be part of this trend.
 
M

Memento

Member
Excluding politics discussion will kill the most special aspect of this forum, which is the social questions awareness discussions that the community here has developed.

This is really dumb.

Damn, what a shitshow...
 
Mahadev

Mahadev

Member
HeWhoWalks said:
Oh yeah, this is quite appropriate. /s

If some of you "hate" this place so much, and want to ridicule a man without even the slightest shred of tangible evidence, then take off. Many of us still appreciate what GAF has to offer.
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It was standard operating procedure for these idiots for years with the help of certain mods. Witchhunting with zero evidence was a daily sport in the Off-topic.
 
M

Mushroomer25

Member
Keeping it concise.

- Deflecting the blame onto the community for 'blowing this out of proportion' is gross.
- There's no excuse for the days of pure silence, especially when comments were made to the press before they were made to the community.
- Shutting down Off-Topic is an absurd idea that does nothing to deal with the issue at hand, and continues to shift blame onto the community with no basis in fact.
- Had EvilLore done the rational thing and stepped away while these accusations were properly investigated, the irreparable damage to this community would have been largely prevented.

Even if these allegations are 'baseless', the response alone is completely unacceptable. As long as this site is so closely tied to one individual that is unwilling to loosen control for the sake of the community's well being, it will always be on thin ice. It's unsustainable.
 
O

OrangeJulius

Member
PG2G said:
Glad that I'm not the only one that doesn't see what the big deal is
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We live in the age of playing victim for the dopamine hit of a retweet or thumbs up on facebook and twitter. Again, 15 years ago this would've been a non story. A complete cock up between two drunk people.

Tyler didn't destroy this forum. The aforementioned type of people above did. We can rebuild it.
 
X

xevis

Banned
You know what would have been great? If the douchebag administrator of this forum had the balls to confront these accusations directly instead of making milquetoast excuses about being tired and stressed and calling into question the mental fucking stability of the woman at the centre of all this.
 
O

onadesertedisland

Member
Ludovico said:
It's surreal - we're witnessing an ongoing hybrid war between gamergate and gaf, all while under what looks like weak leadership at best, and a power abusing hypocrite at worst. Just look at the talking points and how many accounts are swarming out just to gloat or say that gaf were the bad guys all along.

I think the moderation went a long way in keeping this place an excellent platform for information, discussion, and legitimate friendships. A few bad users have unfortunately been allowed to fester, given cover by the owner, but there's no way that's representative of the community as a whole - there's no other place like this.
And gg saying that any right or even center opinions are immediately shut down are failing to bring the receipts. Yeah, the dog piling can get gross, but you have to go out of your way in derailing a thread to warrant a ban.


I'm hoping that Tyler is held accountable for the handling of this, as well as the issue that started the whole thing I'd it bears out to be true.
I'm hoping this community recovers, because it's been a huge part of my life, and a positive place to learn, discuss, and relax.
I'm hoping internet toxicity is not a growing trend - phones are becoming ubiquitous with our youngest generation, and they need proper modeling as to what kind of Internet civilians we want them to be.

Anyway, I hope I see more gaf regulars, contributing positively to make this the best place to catch up on games, hobbies, and hopefully we'll all start seeing the bigger picture together.
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The settlement of the Czechoslovakian problem, which has now been achieved is, in my view, only the prelude to a larger settlement in which all Europe may find peace.
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.
 
S

Spira

Banned
Evilore you are no exception. There needs to be a thread on this in off topic. You are not exempt from criticism while everyone else has been criticized. Do the right thing. Give gaf its free speech back.
 
ramuh

ramuh

Member
ec0ec0 said:
This "trial by internet" is madness.

Someone made a post on social media. That was it.

No one has been proven guilty of anything. There hasn't even been a formal accusation.

No one was "sexualy asaulted", like all the headlines are saying. Come on now. The guy and the girl continued to be friends and had a sexual relasionship after the shower incident.

Why is everyone already so sure that something awful happened? wanting to be banned? asking for such a huge community to disappear?
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That is the rub. We are all using a jumping to conclusions mat without learning everything. Has there been any lawsuits? Criminal charges? If it gets to the point where a person is thinking that Evilore is a piece of shit, that is there personal opinion and they can commit seppuku if they want. Personally, I'm waiting on how things will play out, and finally getting in some GAMING forum side of things.
 
S

ShironRedshift

Member
Full Recovery said:
I'm here for the community, Not Evilore or the mods. The community. This whole thing has been handled poorly. What a mess.
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Indeed. The community is definitely what made this site. Which is why it's so frustrating that, regardless of what's true and what's false, that part of the "solution" to move forward is apparently to delete half the communities on the site. That's punishing them for something they have nothing to do with. It makes no sense whatsoever. If the community is really what's so important, then why delete those elements?

The given reasons make no sense. If anything, presuming they're true and accurate for a moment, they're just a call for more or a different style of moderation. It makes no sense to completely get rid of half the site over that though. And if it's not a matter of more moderation or what kind of moderation, but a feeling that it would be impossible to moderate the OT at all if left in it's prior form, than how can we expect this current moderation team to take care of gaming or any other part of the site? If we can't have faith in them to moderate the OT and the only solution was to blow it up, how can we have faith in them to moderate anything? Especially with the lack of transparency on top of it all?

Nothing makes sense about this. At all. An extremely disappointing response.
 
H

hardcastlemccormick

Banned
Marjar said:
Well, this was a fun series of events. All it took for this shithole of a site to go into utter chaos was a sexual misconduct allegation. That's just how bad this place has gotten with its political extremism and views on men and sex. I'm not saying that Evilore is innocent or anything, I don't believe that for a second considering this isn't the first time he's been a little too eager for some ass. For a while now, this place has been a hivemind of radical leftist drivel, where the slightest right leaning opinion would bring about immediate grounds for permanent banishment from the site. I don't remember the last time I saw a legitimately conservative thought posted here with the user unscathed.

I hope the reaction from the internet has opened the eyes of some users here. Everyone fucking hates you. NeoGAF outside of NeoGAF is a laughing stock. 4chan hates you. Reddit hates you. Twitch hates you. Even Tumblr hates you. Tumblr! The land of over 9000 pronouns. This is quite literally the North Korea of discussion boards. The only tears shed for NeoGAF have been tears of laughter over how fucked this place is. You only have yourselves to blame, especially you Evilore, since you're the one who allowed the mods to become so ban happy and so corrupt. You made your bed. It's a bed made of spikes and surrounded by an angry mob of crazed liberals. Now fucking lie in it.

I've been done with this site for a while now after realizing that there's no turning back for it, so I really don't care what happens to this account. To all of you users here who still have some semblance of decency, leave now and look for a new forum. GAF sucks, Evilore sucks, I hope this plane crashes with no survivors.

Peace out, fags.
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I wish I fucking cared what a bunch of cheeto dust covered cretins cared about this board.

I liked this community, it seemed like the only place with any sanity in a waseland of gaming culture where women were disrespected, lied about (I was right there on day one pointing out how stupid the whole Zoe Quinn shit was, I fucking saw it happening on day one when it was apparently about games journalism and yet the journalist was never attacked), where representation or politics should never be discussed or pointed out lest you get too many nerd undies in a bunch. Apparently that makes me a crazy zany extremist liberal. God forbid we have one place where GamerGate drivel and babble isn't infecting every single thought.

Fuck gaming communities. Including this one. Now it's just the same as the rest of the garbage dumpster on fire being shat on by a million birds that we collectively attempt to call "video games on the internet." It's turtles shitting themselves all the way down.

ramuh said:
That is the rub. We are all using a jumping to conclusions mat without learning everything. Has there been any lawsuits? Criminal charges? If it gets to the point where a person is thinking that Evilore is a piece of shit, that is there personal opinion and they can commit seppuku if they want. Personally, I'm waiting on how things will play out, and finally getting in some GAMING forum side of things.
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If you think there will be any further "truth" on the topic, or proper justice served, you really don't understand how sexual harassment claims are handled in this country.

Nothing will happen. Nothing ever does.
 
G

giga

Member
The Albatross said:
The way this is all being handled is inexcusably bad, it's just a master class in bad executive decisions. There isn't much community left here, but removing the Off Topic forum because the owner of the website allegedly did something disgusting several years ago -- and was identifies -- is punishing the community for disgusting decisions that the owner of the website made.

Evilore, the Off Topic forum did not make you make the wrong decision or do the wrong thing 2 years ago or 5 years ago. The Off Topic forum did not make Amir0x download child pornography. Yes, the Off Topic forum exposes risk for your business (these three issues are examples of that risk), but the reason your business is a business is largely because the site has both a gaming discussion area (which I think is the initial draw for most members) and then an off topic area (which most members also chat in). I think most people here became members to chat about videogames, but then naturally, you chat about other things you're interested in -- sports, movies, music, or the really specific topics like the Black Culture threads, developer/programming threads, or the communities like WrassleGaf or NFLGaf. Punishing those communities because you or your former staff are exposing your business to risk with poor choices is not the right way to handle this.

There have been a number of high profile sexual assaults in the news lately, and while most folks are talking about Harvey Weinstein, Liberty Mutual -- the investment firm -- has also recently fired two employees for sexual misconduct at the workplace. It wouldn't be right for Liberty Mutual to say, "We're not having the company Christmas Party, because Christmas parties is what got us into this mess in the first place," or "We're not going to participate in social out reach because social out reach has made us look like hypocrites with these sexual assaults." No, because it's not The Christmas Party or the Social outreach program that's causing the problem: It's bad, hurtful, or illegal decisions made by you or by some former staff members.

You've always had a reputation for making brash decisions, and most of these have not faired well for you. Poorly thought out statements about Amir0x that bent the truth, came too late, and just weren't handled correctly; decisions to ban certain topics from being discussed; decisions to ban certain members or former staff, and scores of others. This, though, is clearly the worst decision and it shows in inability to accept fault. This decisions seems to simply be another projection: "I've made bad decisions in my life and business, and so the business must be punished." That doesn't make any sense, it's selfish and delusional.

You have an opportunity to make the right decision. Obviously you feel like this site is your baby and "it's your's," but this business exists in spite of you, not because of you. It can be hard for a CEO or business owner to give up something that they think is theirs, many CEOs resist this and are befuddled when their board ousts them for a business that they themselves launched. The right thing for you to do would have been to announce that you're taking an indefinite leave of absence from NeoGaf. Revenue from the site would be put into an escrow account to cover expenses and hire staff who would manage it in your absence. A board of staff (moderators, admins) would be formed to hire staff who would manage the site and support the community. Those would be base level decisions which would ensure, at least, some integrity with the site which would keep at least some members around. The site would persist and could possibly bounce back, ultimately you wouldn't be punishing your customers or your business for your own bad decision. Instead, you made the wrong decision with how this was handled and then continually made the wrong decision with how you're going to move forward with this, instead of holding yourself accountable, you're punishing the community that has made your business successful.

It shows an utter lack of self-awareness which then also undermines any integrity that you're trying to preserve against allegations like the ones you're facing.
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On fucking point.
 
H

Hubble

Member
Full Recovery said:
I'm here for the community, Not Evilore or the mods. The community. This whole thing has been handled poorly. What a mess.
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How I feel. I am here for the community not for EvilLore or anyone else. I interact with the community. The people banning themselves are going to regret it when they miss the great most intelligent and insightful community this forum offers in gaming.
 
JayBabay

JayBabay

Member
Thanks for the statement. I hope the allegations about you are not true, but if they are, it’s not defensible.

I’m glad you are attempting to remove the politics, and I hope I can use this to just talk about games and the love we have for them. Like many of us ONLY come here to do.
 
M

Marjar

Banned
Oh yeah, also here's a little bonus for ya'll.

DMsYwNuW4AYL0xD.jpg
 
MrToast

MrToast

Member
Mushroomer25 said:
Keeping it concise.

- Deflecting the blame onto the community for 'blowing this out of proportion' is gross.
- There's no excuse for the days of pure silence, especially when comments were made to the press before they were made to the community.
- Shutting down Off-Topic is an absurd idea that does nothing to deal with the issue at hand, and continues to shift blame onto the community with no basis in fact.
- Had EvilLore done the rational thing and stepped away while these accusations were properly investigated, the irreparable damage to this community would have been largely prevented.

Even if these allegations are 'baseless', the response alone is completely unacceptable. As long as this site is so closely tied to one individual that is unwilling to loosen control for the sake of the community's well being, it will always be on thin ice. It's unsustainable.
Click to expand...

Then how do you propose he proceeds from here on out? Give him a break, he's had to deal with a lot over the past few days, it can't be easy performing a multi-person job.
 
Geno Breaker

Geno Breaker

Banned
Spira said:
Evilore you are no exception. There needs to be a thread on this in off topic. You are not exempt from criticism while everyone else has been criticized. Do the right thing. Give gaf its free speech back.
Click to expand...

GAF never really had it's free speech, as you could never mention any past incidents. There's a reason people finally got tired of it with the recent allegations.
 
S

sinkfla87

Member
Yukinari said:
I was told many times that i shouldnt buy a game because one guy said bad things otherwise id be supporting racism.

So yeah gaf why are you still supporting Evilore? You support sexual harassment?
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Here's the thing, not everyone on GAF shares that sentiment. There were plenty of very vocal members who were quite diligent in their dogpiling and thought policing anyone with a dissenting opinion, or vehemently attacking those for being impure in their purchasing habits (like what you're mentioning) BUT GAF has an incredibly large amount of members who didn't partake in these things. You probably didn't notice these members (like me lol) because we typically didn't interfere in these discussions as we knew where they would lead and how it would be viewed by some moderators (even the most harmless of posts such as "that's a ridiculous way to look at things"). A lot of us here remain to partake in quite innocuous discussions about harmless things with friends we've made through this forum.

With that said, yeah I didn't like the way the Amirox thing was handled either but me logging in to see if someone in the Marvel thread had info on new DLC characters doesn't mean I'm team NAMBLA. When people grow up, they will realize the real world doesn't exist in mere absolutes.
 
A

Arc

Member
I mean honestly I just needed GAF back. Maybe that makes me a bad person idk. But honestly I was fucking lost the last two days.
 
Predwolf

Predwolf

Member
I hope somebody or something is keeping track of the user stats. I'd like to see a wikiGAF page done up like a real-life battle.
 
V

Varna

Member
Killing talk of social or political issues because it makes you look bad is pretty ridiculous.

I would love to believe this is all a big misunderstanding, but the handling of this situation is has been a fucken mess.

Then you have the gamergate crowd just having a fucken Holiday over this. They don't care about the allegations (I've seen many comment that what happened wasn't even a big deal), but they do love that a community that has hounded them at every turn is burning to the ground.

This place just doesn't feel right anymore.
 
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