Soul Eater (sort of)
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Winter 2012 Anime Thread 2.22: You Can (Not) Outpost Cajunator
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Soul Eater (sort of)
This is the point in which "death of anime" becomes a truly relevant term.
I hope this point does not come about.
I think Mirai Nikki counts.
Animatrix and Halo Legends is anime right? Clearly it is accepted as such, and marketed as such. So based on that, Thundercats is anime too... right?
Salsa just means sauce, but that's not how it's used.
-Minsc-
Member
"The romance" is an important part of the plot, but in a good way. The movie is about the Hunger Games. It's a good movie with a female lead that isn't a chick flick. As a thirty year old male, I recommend it.
Edit:
A solely female lead? I'm not sure. Otherwise I'd say Birdy the Mighty.
how deep does this rabbithole go?
To be fair, Eun Young Choi lives and works in Japan. She may be Korean by birth, but she does not direct anything in South Korea.
Oh, I thought those episodes were done in one of those Korean studios that Madhouse has a big stake in. Oh well. Joke failed!To be fair, Eun Young Choi lives and works in Japan. She may be Korean by birth, but she does not direct anything in South Korea.
cutebabyelephant
Neo Member
Dedication Through Light
Member
Fairy Tail maybe? Story is told from her point of view, seemingly.
I don't know if the Slayers series should be considered Shounen...maybe so.
Shakugan no shana- NO.
Nanoha.
-Minsc-
Member
Give it a Fist of the North Star art style, then I'll call it shounen (doesn't know anything about the story other than the first couple chapters).
Edit:
Excel Saga, I suppose. Maybe.
A Black Falcon
Member
Slayers! Slayers is great and has to be shonen. And Nanoha, yeah. I'm sure there are a few others, though not too many; more often even if there is a strong female character there's still a male perspective character, such as in Medaka Box.
Eh, she's sort of the perspective character, but she's clearly not really the lead, Natsu is.
I feel that one of the defining characteristics of a shounen demographic story is that the larger narrative arc surrounding the main character is very inclusive and friendship is a major theme where the lead gathers as many comrades as possible on his side and together they overcome all odds. On the other hand narratives targeting shoujo audiences tend to be more individualistic, where the heroine often has more complex layers and motivations, and she is often isolated either emotionally or physically, and has to work out her problems on her own to overcome them and get what she truly desires.
Based on what I know of the Hunger Games story, I would say it definitely falls under shoujo more than shounen.
Based on what I know of the Hunger Games story, I would say it definitely falls under shoujo more than shounen.
I dunno if I would call Nanoha or slayers Shounen. Slayers moreso but still...hmm..
It's probably the closest to what I think of as "shounen"
A Black Falcon
Member
Slayers and Nanoha are definitely shonen. Why would you call them anything else? Just because Slayers has comedy elements and Nanoha magical girl elements? That doesn't change the primary genre.
Soul Eater's a good one too, yeah, though Soul is a borderline co-main character Maka probably is the main lead.
all this genre bending is confusing. Can't wrap my little penguin head around it.
A Black Falcon
Member
But shounen and shoujo are not genres... they're just demographics.
Shonen action, then?
But shounen and shoujo are not genres... they're just demographics.
Well if you're going to take it that direction, the manga adaptations of both Slayers and Nanoha ran in seinen magazines. So neither shounen nor shoujo!
I wouldn't technically consider any of those strictly to be anime. The financing and creative oversight of those series involved western companies.
I mean, for a non-animation example, look at Lord of the Rings. Made in New Zealand, directed, written, and crewed by native New Zealanders, as well as people from around the globe. But it's still generally considered a Hollywood blockbuster because it was financed and distributed by a Hollywood studio.
The definitions of these things are obviously going to blurred by the worldwide nature of so many collaborations these days, but I don't think that means the terms aren't useful.
But that's my point. While -you- might not consider them to be anime, the industry at large does, and the majority of the people buying them clearly do. So at this point you either have to swing a stick at the world and go "WELL NOT TO ME IT ISN'T! GRRR!!" or you just have to accept that your personal definition doesn't really mean much after all.
Precure.
I'd agree with these probably being two of the best examples.
Ghost_Protocol
Member
It's far more than the protagonist simply being female.
Her family dynamic - she assumes the role of protector and provider, mother/nurturer for her sister after their actual mother falls into depression. She assumes the role again when she encounters Rue.
The harem of male figures that coalesce around her in varying roles - the lover back home, the secret admirer, the mentor/father figure, the confidant/support.
Gender roles in the romance arc - The male is incapacitated and the female has to go for help. The male is held hostage and the female has to save him. The male is emotionally conflicted, scared, and unstable , and the female is focused, collected, driven, and strong.
These kinds of qualities are characteristic to a more female oriented, female-targeted, female-centric audience, typical of your standard shoujo style story. That is NOT to say it cannot be appealing to everyone, because it absolutely can, and is, but there are many things about the narrative that are designed to speak specifically to the teenage female crowd.
Sure, that's more meaningful as a genre definition, since it actually means something.
I really wouldn't put any magical girl series, let alone Precure, into the demographic of shounen.
As far as demographic goes MaiHiME is definitely shounen, it is written and directed by guys, for guys, and it happens to feature girls, who tend to lose clothes and/or turn lesbian. Wait, I guess that makes it closer to seinen doesn't it. Lol.
The Animatrix in particular blurs the line a bit, I think. While it's a western property, my understanding is that there wasn't a whole ton of oversight other than asking the various studios to make certain stories.
Generally speaking, I think the most important consideration to me is the target audience, which is less clear with something like a Hollywood movie, since the target audience is very broad.
To me, anime is made for Japanese audiences and Japanese sensibilities, with little exception. Where the animation itself is made has little relevance. Nobody goes around saying that the original G.I. Joe cartoon from back in 1985 or whatever is anime just because Toei did a bunch of the animation work.
Well, if that's how we're defining it, according to Wikipedia the Animatrix and Thundercats are not anime, while Halo Legends is. Not sure how they differentiate between those.
Like I said, you can find exceptions for anything. That doesn't make terms useless.
I cannot believe you are using Wikipedia as a -SOURCE-. You have truly learned nothing from the mountain.
Dedication Through Light
Member
Guess Ill add it to my netflix list
I always felt Kid, Black Star were co-mains as well, they had just as much or more screentime than maka and soul
I think the problem is I'm thinking of typical shounen shows instead of what attracts the shonen demographic. That's my hangup.
-Minsc-
Member
But shounen and shoujo are not genres... they're just demographics.
Ha ha, I like that. The Hunger Games is both shounen and shoujo. That's my final answer.
Really though, following this logic all those magical girl show are really shounen (or seinnen) since we all know they're targeted to the male otaku audience.
Hey, you were the one who said we should define words based on how the majority of people view them, not me. What's more democratic than Wikipedia?
Ultimately, it's a show with shounen elements show under a heavy gloss of bright colors and girly imagery. The main motivation is usually to protect the people/ideals that are important to them, and disputes are almost always resolved through physical confrontation of some sort. The vast majority of mahou shoujo isn't shounen, but things like Precure aren't too far off. If you ever get to watching Heartcatch you may start seeing the similarities.
If we're talking strictly tropes and not target demographics, what can constitute shounen broadens considerably. For a reverse example, I've heard people describe the pre-Soul Society portions of Bleach as a genderflipped mahou shoujo, which makes a surprising amount of sense.
Could be.
Consider that Azumanga Daioh and Yotsuba&! are both shonen manga.
Mind. Fucking. Blown.
Wikipedia is not democratic. It's basically whoever edits the page first, and a question of whether anyone actually cares enough to correct factual mistakes or remove subjectively or biased descriptions. The concept that Wikipedia entries represent the majority is a terrible mistake.
Well, that's fine. In that case we have no idea what those series are considered until someone provides valid polling data on how they are viewed by the majority of people.
A Black Falcon
Member
Many of the "group of girls" series are in shonen/seinen manga books, actually.
Yep, which makes a whole lot more sense when you consider the term (correctly) as a demographic.
Nichijou falls into the same category.
Yeah, those jokers. They even have articles for anime that don't even exist. How can you trust a site with such terrible quality control?
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