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[Bony Manifesto]

Not for Nintendo.

Really? The Wii has been around for almost six years so far, and I suspect it'll still have games coming out for it a few more years yet. I don't think a lifespan close to ten years is unreasonable for the Wii U.

Unless you mean it'll be around for longer?

Edit: Oh I see! I should have said "this coming generation" and not just "this generation". My bad.

 

[Hiltz]

Iwata says:

"We cannot promise that the Wii U will never be excluded from multiplatform software for eternity, but we can at least assure you that the Wii U will not have such a big difference as the Wii had in comparison to how, on other platforms, developers could expect very different graphic capabilities of generating HD-applicable high-resolution graphics."

"Naturally some consumers are very sensitive about such a small difference in graphics so that we will make efforts to make the most of the performance of the Wii U to keep up with technological innovations and not to make the system out-of-date soon.Other companies might launch a next-generation console with more power, but we don't necessarily think that the difference between the Wii U and such console will be as drastic as what you felt it was between the Wii and the other consoles because there will be fewer and fewer differentiators in graphics."

"However, as the structure of the product called the Wii U is as if we are including both a video game console and a handheld device, if we were not careful about how luxurious both of them were, we could end up having to offer the price of the two hardware systems combined, which would not be an acceptable price for the consumers. We had to design it by balancing the performance and the costs."

"There’s definitely the chance for not only graphics, but also other features that our competitor’s consoles don’t have. But I think it will become increasingly difficult from now on to compete over graphics," Iwata explained. "This is because that no matter how much we increase the number of polygons we can display and improve the shading it will become increasingly difficult to tell the difference."

“We’re trying to do that by finding the right balance between the CPU and the GPU, the graphics processor, and bringing all of that together with the ability to take advantage of the HD capabilities of the system, and wanting to do the most that we can on that front as well. … We’re very sensitive, of course, to trying to do all of this at an appropriate price.As we will showcase the Wii U at E3 in June this year, the detailed announcements must wait until then, but we are aiming to make a system which shall not be forced into competing with the others where the contenders can fight only with massive developer resources and long development times as their weapons."

Miyamoto says:

“So I don’t know that we would be able to sit here and say that it’s going to necessarily dramatically outperform the systems that are out now. It’s part of the balance that we strike in terms of trying to find entertainment that is new and unique.” - Miyamoto

 

[MadeInBeats]

Really? The Wii has been around for almost six years so far, and I suspect it'll still have games coming out for it a few more years yet. I don't think a lifespan close to ten years is unreasonable for the Wii U.

Unless you mean it'll be around for longer?

No, Wii U will be about the same. 5-6 years; confident most people will be of the same opinion. They've actually already commented that their next console will revolutionise the industry. I'm thinking it will be the world's first quantum console.

 

[Roo]

Not for Nintendo.

I have to agree on this one

 

[Smiles and Cries]

the next Nintendo console after Wii U should be called "The Balance"

 

[ColdBlooder]

Theres one specific reason why no dev would ever say Wii U is more powerful than PS360... Or even make the Wii U games overshadow PS360 (<--- The new and unknown architecture is a considerable factor aswell)...

"Hey guys look, Wii U is 3x more powerful than the old PS360. Hey buy our PS360 game wich is out next week!". No dev/publisher would ever do that.

From a buissness standpoint its understandable. With the horrendous ammounts of dev costs you don´t wanna promote a console wich has no userbase because its not released yet.

They are still producing and developing a ton PS360 games wich they want to sell with MS and Sonys next gen console officially not announced and will propably remain that way until E3.

I mean Q1 next year is loaded with blockbuster games.

 

[MadeInBeats]

Iwata explained. "This is because that no matter how much we increase the number of polygons we can display and improve the shading it will become increasingly difficult to tell the difference."

Who the bloody hell is this guy anyway? The way he talks you'd think he was the president of a world leading video games corporation... ... jerk!!

@ColdBlooder . Aye aye knob 'ed ;-)

 

[Zoramon089]

Sorry but no. WiiU is maybe just a tad better the PS360. In fact, there will be games that will still perform better on PS360 then WiiU due to the relatively slow CPU used.

I don't expect to be any multiplatform games on PS4 and Durango and will appear only on WiiU because of it's technical ability.

I knew not to take this seriously when I saw the tag and avatar

 

[ffdgh]

Who the bloody hell is this guy anyway? The way he talks you'd think he was the president of a world leading video games corporation... ... jerk!!

@ColdBlooder . Aye aye knob'ed ;-)

 

[Sid]

Who the bloody hell is this guy anyway? The way he talks you'd think he was the president of a world leading video games corporation... ... jerk!!

@ColdBlooder . Aye aye knob'ed ;-)

Just curious,did he say the same thing when the wii was about to launch?

 

[ohlawd]

Just curious,did he said the same thing when the wii was about to launch?

No. But he did say that HDTVs weren't as prevalent at the time. That's why Nintendo took the route they did.

lol are you gonna make a thread about this?

 

[ColdBlooder]

Just curious,did he said the same thing when the wii was about to launch?

No they didn´t make the Wii HD because only like 30% of people had an hdtv in 2006. Yes that was their reason.

The HDTV saturation has now changed ofcourse and is a shitton better!

Edit: Beaten like a frenchman on a free buffet (You know i mean you, lol)

 

[Sid]

No. But he did say that HDTVs weren't as prevalent at the time. That's why Nintendo took the route they did.

lol are you gonna make a thread about this?

lol hell no!

 

[test_account]

Well, Iwata said in 2005 (or was it 2006?) that graphics had reached fairly photo realistic levels. That was one reason why they didnt make the Wii more powerful. Graphics back in 2005 werent really bad, but there have been much improvement since that time regardless. We'll see if what he says now about shaders making it difficult to see a big difference will be true. Personally i think that there are still good room for improvement in graphics.

 

[cyberheater]

In some ways, comparing the Wii U, PS3, Durango may end up like comparing a game on low, medium, and high PCs.

In a way. I hope your wrong because what you've said predicates that next gen game engines are only going to be about nice looking graphics. I hope that next gen engines really move deeper into more realistic physics, proper destructable materials,much better and convincing A.I. Characters that better interact with their environments. Stuff that needs a lot more CPU horsepower that can't be shoehorned onto lesser machines.

 

[JordanN]

The on par stuff is seriously pathetic. Pretty much every developer said the Wii U is more powerful than current gen.


In addition, IBM and AMD's press releases also confirmed the system is of newer design.

 

[Lonely1]

The ongoing system specs information so far leaked is zeroing on a tight and consistent performance range of WiiU. Nothing so far points to it being a powerhouse or indeed, being anywhere near a order of magnitude better then the current HD twins.

In base 2 it is.

In a way. I hope your wrong because what you've said predicates that next gen game engines are only going to be about nice looking graphics. I hope that next gen engines really move deeper into more realistic physics, proper destructable materials,much better and convincing A.I. Characters that better interact with their environments. Stuff that needs a lot more CPU horsepower that can't be shoehorned onto lesser machines.

Must of that stuff will be done on the CPU.

 

[ColdBlooder]

Well, Iwata said in 2005 (or was it 2006?) that graphics had reached fairly photo realistic levels. That was one reason why they didnt make the Wii more powerful. Graphics back in 2005 werent really bad, but there have been much improvement since that time regardless. We'll see if what he says now about shaders making it difficult to see a big difference will be true. Personally i think that there are still good room for improvement in graphics.

Didn´t he say that about Wii U? I only know the HDTV saturation excuse....

 

[cyberheater]

Hmm.

This is an interesting claim. Would you like to bet on it?

"No game will appear in the same form on Wii U and PS4/Nextbox" should be pretty cut and dry.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that I don't think that a dev will say that we can only down port this next gen game to WiiU but not to PS360 because they are not powerful enough.

 

[test_account]

Didn´t he say that about Wii U? I only know the HDTV saturation excuse....

He says it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33BGyhn_ryw&feature=player_detailpage#t=15s (it says 2004 in the YouTube video, but i believe this is from 2005?)

Maybe he said it about WiiU too.

 

[Sid]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that I don't think that a dev will say that we can only down port this next gen game to WiiU but not to PS360 because they are not powerful enough.

Yeah wiiu could help increase support for ps360

 

[ColdBlooder]

He says it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33BGyhn_ryw&feature=player_detailpage#t=15s (it says 2004 in the YouTube video, but i believe this is from 2005?)

Maybe he said it about WiiU too.

Well that statement could be true for SDTVs though.

 

[Lonely1]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that I don't think that a dev will say that we can only down port this next gen game to WiiU but not to PS360 because they are not powerful enough.

Why not? Bethesda is already doing that for games downported from 360 to Ps3 due to (relative) small ram differences. The difference between Wii U and 360 in at least RAM is massive.

Yeah wiiu could help increase support for ps360

Is funny how downporting from 2-4GB to 1.5-2GB is impossible, but From 1.5 to .5? A piece of Cake!

 

[anchorman128]

Why not? Bethesda is already doing that for downport from 360 to Ps3 due to (relative) small ram differences. The difference between Wii U and 360 in at least RAM is massive.



Is funny how downporting from 4GB to 1.5-2GB is impossible, but From 1.5 to .5? A piece of Cake!

Exactly haha they took Witcher 2 which on PC can sometimes eat 2.5-3GB and downported the game (pretty damn faithfully) to the 360 and .5GB

 

[snowdog1971]

Yes. You definitely need more PAM because you don't want the waffles or pancakes that Wii U makes sticking.

Seriously though, yes. An example would be PS3 starting with a large OS split across both pools of memory and Sony reduced it over time. Like antonz mentioned this would be typical Nintendo. They tend to overcompensate at times so to me this comes off as "better to be safe than sorry". I'm fine with it if that means stability early on while they figure things out. They'll optimize it as time passes and the hardware has had time in the market.

I agree that the footprint will shrink over time but I was personally expecting 512MB reserved for the footprint and 1.5GB available to developers with half of that footprint being given to developers over time. But if they end up with 1GB for each then I can't see the footprint shrinking to less than 512MB which is pretty disappointing tbh. It may not seem much but that extra 256MB not being available to developers may spell a problem for the U a few years down the line.

 

[MadeInBeats]

He says it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33BGyhn_ryw&feature=player_detailpage#t=15s (it says 2004 in the YouTube video, but i believe this is from 2005?)

Maybe he said it about WiiU too.

To me when I watch that, he isn't saying graphics have reached a level of photorealism... in fact no, scratch that; he certainly isn't saying that. He seems to be saying that graphics are good enough to express [whatever] now it's time to concentrate on other things.

Is funny how downporting from 2-4GB to 1.5-2GB is impossible, but From 1.5 to .5? A piece of Cake!

Youuuuu, stop throwing your big spanner in the works.

 

[Sid]

Why not? Bethesda is already doing that for downport from 360 to Ps3 due to (relative) small ram differences. The difference between Wii U and 360 in at least RAM is massive.



Is funny how downporting from 4GB to 1.5-2GB is impossible, but From 1.5 to .5? A piece of Cake!

Did i say that?and i said 'could' help increase support,specs aren't everything required for 3rd party support just look at n64 and gamecube

 

[test_account]

Well that statement could be true for SDTVs though.

It could be, i havnt really compared running the same game on SDTV and HDTV, so i cant say for sure how big the difference is.

On this point though, HDTVs was just getting more and more common. Gaming systems have at least a 5 year long cycle, so future proofing the system is important. Iwata also mentioned this with the WiiU, that it was important to make sure that the system doesnt get outdated fast.

 

[cyberheater]

I sometimes wonder if people really understand the implications of better AI or destructable materials. Both require changing the traditional level and gameplay design to make (really) use of them, which I wouldn't expect. What I'd expect (at least for now) are natural and superficial improvements, such as better wayfinding or "better" behaviour by NPCs in RPGs.

Indeed. Even A.I. co-op characters that don't just step into your hail of bullets or get in your way, or block your exits would be a start.

But getting back to your first point. Yes it would be a challenge but it would also open up a lot of games. I'd love to be able to better use my environment to attack or survive. Plant a bomb inside a tire and roll it down a hill. Set a charge in an overhead support beam to crush an alien. Cut down a tree and make a bow. Loads of real world scenarios currently limited by the power of current consoles.

 

[Ryoku]

Wii U's capabilities will be noticeably better than PS360, but noticeably worse than PS4/720. That's the way I see it. Of course, based on almost nothing factual.

 

[The_Lump]

Exactly haha they took Witcher 2 which on PC can sometimes eat 2.5-3GB and downported the game (pretty damn faithfully) to the 360 and .5GB

I was trying to make this point the other day (although not very eloquently)

Games right now rarely need more than 2GB of RAM, it's just easier to allow a game to utilise what's available than it is to fine tune it to run more efficiently on the hardware. (same goes for other hardware components too) You see games taking upwards of 3-4GB RAM on a PC but the same game on consoles will run just fine on a quarter of that, because it's been optimised to do so.

Works from PC to consoles because the console market is much bigger, making the extra effort worthwile. From Durango/Orbis to WiiU? Remains to be seen.

 

[wsippel]

Indeed. Even A.I. co-op characters that don't just step into your hail of bullets or get in your way, or block your exits would be a start.

Better AI doesn't rely on more powerful hardware, it relies on better algorithms.

 

[test_account]

To me when I watch that, he isn't saying graphics have reached a level of photorealism... in fact no, scratch that; he certainly isn't saying that. He seems to be saying that graphics are good enough to express [whatever] now it's time to concentrate on other things.

Transcript of what he said:

"Today's consoles already offer fairly photo realistic expressions. Simply beefing up those graphics will not let most of us see a difference".

When he says "beefing up", i understand this as he is referring to the visual presentation. That is afterall what most people think about when they hear "graphics". If he just talk about what you can present, then 2D is enough. For example, drawing a pixel tree and rendering a high detailed 3D model of a tree, everyone can see that both things represent a tree.

I think the reason why he was saying this is that today's graphics (back in 2005) were good enough for most people. And because of this, that is why it was important to make something different (that is what they did with the Wii controller) than just beefing up the graphical capabilities.

 

[JordanN]

Wii U's capabilities will be noticeably better than PS360, but noticeably worse than PS4/720. That's the way I see it. Of course, based on almost nothing factual.

To me, Wii U is a PC game rendered at 720p, 30fps, low geometry, medium textures, 2xAA and low to medium next gen effects.

Xbox 720 would be at 720p (heh), 60fps, with high geometry, high textures, 4xAA and medium next gen effects.

PS4 would be 1080p, 30fps, ultra geometry, ultra textures, 4xAA and high next gen effects.

Also, this is what I think the average next gen game will be like. I imagine for less demanding games, Wii U could be equal to more higher settings.

 

[miksar]

The funny thing about all this "PS480 will destroy Wii U" crap is that we know absolutely nothing about the next PS and Xbox. More than that, somehow everyone assumes that their systems will be god-like with no faults, meaning that someone has a very short memory and doesn't remember $599 and RRoD. Last time Nintendo made a big mistake ($250 3DS) they fixed it in half a year and it took MS/Sony several years to fix their prospective problems. But of course, go on with your "it's already outdated lol", because it won't matter if the competitors don't come up with something impressive and/or if they make stupid decisions with hardware/software/pricing/marketing/whatever.

 

[chertipros]

Who the bloody hell is this guy anyway? The way he talks you'd think he was the president of a world leading video games corporation... ... jerk!!

@ColdBlooder . Aye aye knob 'ed ;-)

Also isn't/wasn't iwata a genius level programmer? The things he accomplished are pretty outstanding (atleast to me). I mean, this is the same guy that
-ported Pokemon Red/Blue's battle code to the Nintendo 64 for pokemon stadium without having most of the documents that detailed it in ONE WEEK
-Disassembled the programs for his Commodore PET computer by writing down the memory dumps By HAND
-Personally compressed Pokémon Gold and Silver well enough so that there was enough room left on the cartridge for the Johto AND kanto regions to be in the game (The original Pokemon Red/Blue filled the cartridge)
-programmed all of Earthbound from scratch, a feat that nobody thought could be done at the time because the game had a complex coding which was in itself a huge scripting language

Honestly if iwata thinks next gen won't be a monumental leap i will believe him

 

[Sid]

The funny thing about all this "PS480 will destroy Wii U" crap is that we know absolutely nothing about the next PS and Xbox. More than that, somehow everyone assumes that their systems will be god-like with no faults, meaning that someone has a very short memory and doesn't remember $599 and RRoD. Last time Nintendo made a big mistake ($250 3DS) they fixed it in half a year and it took MS/Sony several years to fix their prospective problems. But of course, go on with your "it's already outdated lol", because it won't matter if the competitors don't come up with something impressive and/or make stupid decisions with hardware/software/pricing/marketing/whatever.

You do,these specs have been confirmed by bgs http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=477540 the RAM may be 4gb GDDR5

 

[ShockingAlberto]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that I don't think that a dev will say that we can only down port this next gen game to WiiU but not to PS360 because they are not powerful enough.

Can or will?

 

[MadeInBeats]

Transcript of what he said:

"Today's consoles already offer fairly photo realistic expressions. Simply beefing up those graphics will not let most of us see a difference".

When he says "beefing up", i understand this as he is referring to the visual presentation. That is afterall what most people think about when they hear "graphics". If he just talk about what you can present, then 2D is enough. For example, drawing a pixel tree and rendering a high detailed 3D model of a tree, everyone can see that both things represent a tree.

No, I disagree. He mentions it in the context of expression and shifting focus, and the sort of 3D graphics on the Cube were, and are still enough, to express pretty much anything and do it pretty well. 2D pixel consoles don't express representations of 3D space, ie, life on Earth.

Also isn't/wasn't iwata a genius level programmer? The things he accomplished are pretty outstanding (atleast to me). I mean, this is the same guy that
-ported Pokemon Red/Blue's battle code to the Nintendo 64 for pokemon stadium without having most of the documents that detailed it in ONE WEEK
-Disassembled the programs for his Commodore PET computer by writing down the memory dumps By HAND
-Personally compressed Pokémon Gold and Silver well enough so that there was enough room left on the cartridge for the Johto AND kanto regions to be in the game (The original Pokemon Red/Blue filled the cartridge)
-programmed all of Earthbound from scratch, a feat that nobody thought could be done at the time because the game had a complex coding which was in itself a huge scripting language

Honestly if iwata thinks next gen won't be a monumental leap i will believe him

I didn't know any of that. He sounds like a proper spod.

 

[bgassassin]

Am I the only gaffer who is sick and tired of hearing Wii-U tech talk?

I wouldn't do that to yourself. It's never going to go away, but it only comes up in cycles anyway so it's not like a consistent barrage.

It's like technobabble to me. You're not the only one.

It's like this clip from Sinnlos im Weltall, a German Star Trek dub. All I can do is stand back while all you experts talk about tech.

No need to sit back. It shouldn't stop people from talking about other aspects of Wii U.

I've been sick of it for like a year now
One of the reasons I was disappointed at Nintendo's e3 showing, I figured they'd give us enough to talk about outside of the sepcs, but here we are 2 months later

This is the real problem and why I was also looking forward to E3.

 

[test_account]

No, I disagree. He mentions it in the context of expression, and the sort of 3D graphics on the Cube were, and are still enough, to express pretty much anything and do it pretty well. 2D pixel consoles don't express representations of 3D space, ie, life on Earth.

With better graphics, you can express more things, especially facial expressions. There were many things that 2005 graphics couldnt express in the same way. Why would he say "most people cant see the difference" if he simply is talking about expressions? That is why i mentioned the tree example. I do think he ment that graphics could be improved of course, but that he didnt think it was that necessary.

I edited my previous post, but i think what Iwata ment is that 2005's graphics were good enough for most people, so simply beefing up the graphical capabilities werent enough because he thought that most people wouldnt notice the difference (or rather, care about the difference). That is why they felt they needed to do something more/different, so they made the Wii motion controller and didnt focus on the graphical capabilities that much because he didnt think it was necessary.

 

[wsippel]

With better graphics, you can express more things, especially facial expressions. There were many things that 2005 graphics couldnt express in the same way.

Depends on the visual style. With non-realistic graphics, you can do more expressive facial animation than anything David Cage will ever manage to achieve, even on PS4.

 

[cyberheater]

Better AI doesn't rely on more powerful hardware, it relies on better algorithms.

Common sense reasoning, the ability to understand the enviroment and how to use it. Even understanding human speech to take orders or construct realistic dialogue dynamically. All in real time would take a lot of resources. You don't seriously think that it would be possible on a C64.

I understand the algorithms argument but I believe that it's going to take a huge amount of processing power to get AI to where it needs to be.

 

[lordfroakie]

You do,these specs have been confirmed by bgs http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=477540 the RAM may be 4gb GDDR5

Still doesn't confirm nothing and aren't official. I'll wait for Sony to reveal specs, rather than some Internet stranger. Guys, move onto a new topic <.<

 

[test_account]

Depends on the visual style. With non-realistic graphics, you can do more expressive facial animation than anything David Cage will ever manage to achieve, even on PS4.

Sure, but this about games in general. You can make a 2D game and still express things good. Just like at Ninja Gaiden for NES for example, it had cutscenes in a way to express the story better. Unless Iwata ment that everyone should make games with non-realistic graphics hehe

 

[MadeInBeats]

With better graphics, you can express more things, especially facial expressions. There were many things that 2005 graphics couldnt express in the same way.

I edited my previous post, but i think what Iwata ment is that 2005's graphics were good enough, so simply beefing up the graphical capabilities werent enough because he thought that most people wouldnt notice the difference (or rather, care about the difference). That is why they felt they needed to do something more/different, so they made the Wii motion controller and didnt focus on the graphical capabilities that much because he didnt think it was necessary.

I guess we met in the middle there somewhere then. But you can't deny he was right. I don't think there was a outcry of people not 'getting' a game maker's idea, or feeling etc to the degree people didn't buy the Wii or its games.

 

[wsippel]

Yes and no.

While the advancement of AI in general is solely dependent on the development of new/better algorithms, the implementation of said algorithms in practice is also limited by the hardware.

As a gamer my impression is that most games follow a somewhat traditional brute-force approach, i.e. they rely on (mostly) explicit conditions for the behaviour, maybe mixed with random variables to create variety in behaviour. In those cases, better hardware allows for a natural (and simple) extension of the algorithm. There's also many different mathematical problems which we would file under AI, such as wayfinding, which can also be greatly improved by better hardware.

Open-world games with many different NPCs can greatly benefit from better hardware, also by naturally extending their A.I., such as simply adding a few more routines to their A.I.

That said it's true that the true advancements of A.I. do not rely so much on better hardware than on better algorithms, see e.g. the advancements we've made in the field of neural networks.

Let me put it this way: We're far from the point where hardware performance is an actual limiting factor for AI. Most advancements in that field came from better algorithms. And those algorithms tend to be more efficient as well.

Take X3 by Egosoft for example. It runs an artificial life simulation and 3D (!) pathfinding for thousands of spaceships and hundreds of stations at a scale far beyond anything on consoles. It constantly keeps track of everything everywhere, not only when you're close enough to actually notice. This game actually does pump significant amounts of processor cycles in its AI, yet it runs on 2005 hardware and doesn't even support multithreading, >2GB RAM or GPGPU.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Good to see stewox is back up to his old routine after yesterday.

You "know tech", do you?

 

[cyberheater]

Can or will?

I've just read the recent rumour specs of PS4. Amazing if true.

My point is that a dev could shoehorn crysis 2 onto Wii. Is It possible. Yes. But how much would you have to decimate to get it to fit. How much geometry would you have to cull, how small would the textures be etc...

 

[nordique]

The on par stuff is seriously pathetic. Pretty much every developer said the Wii U is more powerful than current gen.

In addition, IBM and AMD's press releases also confirmed the system is of newer design.

But it is "on par" in a way. It remains to be seen how much of an improvement it is over current gen Hd (we know it will be, but there really aren't any games shown yet that look to be pushing the wii u at all)

That said it doesn't seem to be a huge jump either, at least not like what the next PS/Xbox are appearing to be

Wii u's main difference though is in its architecture, I agree

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that I don't think that a dev will say that we can only down port this next gen game to WiiU but not to PS360 because they are not powerful enough.

It has less to do with power, more to do with features. For example raw power wise it seems to sit closer to Ps3 and 360 than the Xbox 720 and ps4 (given what little we do know I should stress) but architecture wise it is likely "on par" with those other next gen systems. It's just that right now, engines don't make use of it

I've noticed you have this opinion, and it seems only time will convince you otherwise. I know you're excited about the wii u (other newer posters may not know that about you) but you do have this very erroneous belief about the wii u being "akin" to the ps3 and 360 - there is much reason to believe it has more in common with the next Xbox and ps than the current ones.

Yes, it is weaker than they will be. But it's not all about power. Architecture/ capability will determine much if not most of the portability potential

Why not? Bethesda is already doing that for games downported from 360 to Ps3 due to (relative) small ram differences. The difference between Wii U and 360 in at least RAM is massive.


Is funny how downporting from 2-4GB to 1.5-2GB is impossible, but From 1.5 to .5? A piece of Cake!

The ram difference with 360 and Wii U, for now, is 2x. This is massive yes but compared to the "Xbox 720", it's nothing. I am not sure where you have these numbers from, but if the next Xbox ends up with 8gb of ram, with 6 available for games, it will have 6x what the wii u has; 12x what the 360 has. To give you an idea, that is about the same difference as the Wii to Wii U

(just in a very coarse, raw "layman" way to compare)

I'm just saying because I don't want people to over estimate the wii u tech wise an underestimate the next Xbox tech wise...they will be farther apart than you think (but closer at the same time...I dunno if that makes sense)

Wii U's capabilities will be noticeably better than PS360, but noticeably worse than PS4/720. That's the way I see it. Of course, based on almost nothing factual.

I think this is what those who have an eye for graphics can certainly expect

Then again, we'll start to know the best answers to these postulations on everyone (myself inclu) in several years time

Also isn't/wasn't iwata a genius level programmer? The things he accomplished are pretty outstanding (atleast to me). I mean, this is the same guy that
-ported Pokemon Red/Blue's battle code to the Nintendo 64 for pokemon stadium without having most of the documents that detailed it in ONE WEEK
-Disassembled the programs for his Commodore PET computer by writing down the memory dumps By HAND
-Personally compressed Pokémon Gold and Silver well enough so that there was enough room left on the cartridge for the Johto AND kanto regions to be in the game (The original Pokemon Red/Blue filled the cartridge)
-programmed all of Earthbound from scratch, a feat that nobody thought could be done at the time because the game had a complex coding which was in itself a huge scripting language

Honestly if iwata thinks next gen won't be a monumental leap i will believe him

Iwata really has a feel for the industry, that's for sure. He understands things I think, on a deeper level.

He is right about what he's saying, and Nintendo has very different priorities than what all of us would LIKE to see from them. It just shows how, ironically, out of touch with reality WE all really are, rather than Nintendo

(the irony is we project that on Nintendo but we don't truly understand how they reach the decisions they make)